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Spinoff -Better Head Coach: Parcells or Coughlin?

Grey Pilgrim : 8/3/2020 12:18 pm
A very tough question! As painful as it is to say I'd lean toward Coughlin.

What say you?
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While Parcells had the edge in assistants  
DieHard : 8/3/2020 1:45 pm : link
I wouldn't give him full credit for people like Belichick, Romeo Crennel, Ron Erhardt, Lamar Leachman and Pat Hodgson, who he inherited from Ray Perkins' staff. I give him more credit for hiring later staffs, like Sean Payton in Dallas.
It's Parcells.  
Enzo : 8/3/2020 1:50 pm : link
I can't think of one area of leading a team in which one would say TC was better.
Greg while I agree  
Phil in LA : 8/3/2020 1:54 pm : link
Young didn't stop Parcells from hiring anyone, but Ernie's pursuit of Saban cost Coughlin guys like Alex Gibbs, Bill Callahan and Greg Williams back in 2004. None of them are Little Bill, but they are better than what he ended up with.
I get where you're coming from Phil  
Greg from LI : 8/3/2020 2:02 pm : link
But his subsequent choices over the next decade weren't forced on him because of Nick Saban, and they were largely lacking.
Parcells for me  
PatersonPlank : 8/3/2020 2:04 pm : link
He is one of the greatest of all time
Parcells  
joeinpa : 8/3/2020 2:20 pm : link
Not even close.
I’m going to go with TC because he got more out of less ...  
Spider56 : 8/3/2020 2:23 pm : link
George Young got BP great players ... including the GOAT in LT. Parcells’ teams might have crushed TCs Giants, but more so bc of the players not the coaching. As much as I love Eli, he would have been a sitting duck against BB’s defenses. Also, I will always hate Parcells for leaving the way he did ...
Parcells  
US1 Giants : 8/3/2020 2:28 pm : link
.
Parcells  
Danny Kanell : 8/3/2020 2:37 pm : link
And it's not particularly close IMO.
Stating the obvious....  
Grey Pilgrim : 8/3/2020 2:47 pm : link
But, I don't think the GIANTS win Superbowl 25 without little Bill.
I'd quickly choose Parcells ahead of Coughlin  
Mad Mike : 8/3/2020 3:07 pm : link
to coach my team. That's not a knock on Coughlin, but I think there's a clear gap.
Parcells Without a question  
TheMick7 : 8/3/2020 3:10 pm : link
And he could coach all my other sports teams as well!
A vote for Parcells  
Crazed Dogs : 8/3/2020 3:51 pm : link
and that is not taking anything away from Coughlin
RE: Parcells, easily  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 8/3/2020 4:03 pm : link
In comment 14943087 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
It's not even a debate. Finding quality assistants and building a top coaching staff is part of a head coach's job, yet some people are trying to use Coughlin's struggles in this regard as an advantage over Parcells? Get the hell outta here with that.


+1.
how many times did Parcells  
Enzo : 8/3/2020 4:47 pm : link
blow a 21 point lead? TC has the honor of doing it THREE times.
Both  
Lines of Scrimmage : 8/3/2020 5:08 pm : link
great coaches. Many similarities with teams known for toughness, preparedness and attention to detail. Both got teams ready in big games.

Whoever you pick you know that when they take over a team they will win big and soon.

I think Parcells was much better at identifying coaching talent and developing it to take on more responsibility. TC often mentioned how Parcells was a great mentor for him. He also was a master with the press.

TC seemed more loyal to the franchise whereas Parcells was often planning a exit strategy.

Happy they both coached the team I follow.
Side-by-Side Records  
M.S. : 8/3/2020 5:42 pm : link

Each with two Super Bowl Trophies.

Bill Parcells (NFL Regular Season)
172 Wins
130 Losses
1 Tie
Winning % .569

Bill Parcells (NFL Playoffs)
11 Wins
8 Losses
Winning % .578

Tom Coughlin (NFL Regular Season)
170 Wins
150 Losses
Winning % .531

Tom Coughlin (NFL Playoffs)
12 Wins
7 Losses
Winning % .632


Parcells was also won a lot of games  
Enzo : 8/3/2020 5:53 pm : link
with guys like Testaverde, Quincy Carter, Neil O'Donnell, and Ray Lucas as his starting QB. How many times did TC have to play a meaningful game with someone other than Brunell or Eli at QB?
Tuna  
Dragon : 8/3/2020 6:07 pm : link
Was gifted with outstanding coaches even a guy to manage time yet knew nothing about coaching a team. His psyche was bigger than a mountain one of the main reasons he could not find a permanent home and left everywhere as a thief in the night. Coughlin turned his players into fighters with the desire to play well above their true ability he just lacked the special talents Parcells was lucky to have. Coughlin was a much better overall coach than Parcells and it’s not close.
Tuna!  
Spider43 : 8/3/2020 6:11 pm : link
Didn't even have to think about it...
RE: Tuna!  
Spider56 : 8/3/2020 7:59 pm : link
In comment 14943331 Spider43 said:
Quote:
Didn't even have to think about it...


Then maybe you should have.
Parcells.  
Since1965 : 8/3/2020 8:14 pm : link
Not even close.
If you can get him to just coach the team, Coughlin.  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/4/2020 6:23 am : link
If the coach is going to be deeply involved in all aspects of football operations, probably Parcells. He was never a great X-and-O guy, but he could assemble a staff and he understood motivation, team chemistry and a bunch of other intangibles. He does have some big black marks on his NYG record, though: Brunner and the rest of the 1983 disaster; losses to weaker team in 1985 that cost the Giants the East; the lazy 0-2 start in 1987 before the strike; the Jets loss in 1988; the Flipper Game. It wasn’t all sunshine and Lombardi Trophies with Tuna.

Parcells made his name before the cap, so he didn’t have to worry about the one thing that killed Coughlin in Jacksonville.
RE: If you can get him to just coach the team, Coughlin.  
Big Blue '56 : 8/4/2020 7:06 am : link
In comment 14943531 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
If the coach is going to be deeply involved in all aspects of football operations, probably Parcells. He was never a great X-and-O guy, but he could assemble a staff and he understood motivation, team chemistry and a bunch of other intangibles. He does have some big black marks on his NYG record, though: Brunner and the rest of the 1983 disaster; losses to weaker team in 1985 that cost the Giants the East; the lazy 0-2 start in 1987 before the strike; the Jets loss in 1988; the Flipper Game. It wasn’t all sunshine and Lombardi Trophies with Tuna.

Parcells made his name before the cap, so he didn’t have to worry about the one thing that killed Coughlin in Jacksonville.


Best and most accurate opinion yet. IMHO.
Tougher choice than it  
section125 : 8/4/2020 7:48 am : link
seems straight up. Coughlin was a PIA to his players. Parcells was, but in a different way. Coughlin very nearly lost the team after 2006 by being a hard ass and intractable. Never heard of Parcells almost losing the team. Tom was too loyal to his assistant coaches and kept them even when they proved to be failures. Parcells seemed to attract better coaches or probably identified them better.

I will never forgive Parcells for walking out like he did in '91. But I would pick Bill over Tom because he had a better understanding of his players and built better coaching staffs.
Not to mention better press conferences.
Parcells  
Rick5 : 8/4/2020 7:59 am : link
but the greatest SB win in NFL history belongs to TC.
RE: Parcells indeed has a higher winning percentage  
Beer Man : 8/4/2020 8:30 am : link
In comment 14943110 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
And yeah, Coughlin had an expansion franchise, but Parcells took over:

-a 2-14 Patriots team
-a 1-15 Jets team
-a 6-10 Cowboys team

So let's not pretend that Parcells had some kind of inherent benefit here.

And Phil, if Coughlin had Belichick on his staff, he wouldn't have been the best coach of his staff either.
and a 6-10 Giants team
RE: Parcells. He had a  
Beer Man : 8/4/2020 8:30 am : link
In comment 14943067 Gregorio said:
Quote:
Distinct ability to motivate players. He would get under their skin, knew how to push the right buttons.
+1
I’m going with Coughlin  
SomeFan : 8/4/2020 8:46 am : link
.
RE: Parcells  
SomeFan : 8/4/2020 8:51 am : link
In comment 14943074 Big Al said:
Quote:
This quote is from an ESPN article at the time Parcells went into the HOF.

“ Bill Parcells' greatest gift as a head coach had nothing to do with X's and O's, game-day adjustments or personnel evaluation. Instead, it had everything to do with bonding. No coach in his era was better at discovering exactly what it takes to motivate every player on his roster. More importantly, as many of those players would attest, he also understood something equally crucial to his success: All players shouldn't be treated equally.”

This to me was the biggest weakness of Coughlin and something I constantly pointed out in his early years here (and was constantly blasted for when I brought it up back then as I probably will be blasted again).


This is a good point. Though TC was not ignorant of bonding with players. You may recall that he researched the personalities of millennials so he could figure out what motivates them. He was also very funny on those clips where he would talk to players warming up. Maybe he didn’t go player by player but he did not ignore the motivational aspects of coaching and I think he was or became proactive in that aspect.
RE: Tougher choice than it  
Britt in VA : 8/4/2020 9:07 am : link
In comment 14943542 section125 said:
Quote:
seems straight up. Coughlin was a PIA to his players. Parcells was, but in a different way. Coughlin very nearly lost the team after 2006 by being a hard ass and intractable. Never heard of Parcells almost losing the team. Tom was too loyal to his assistant coaches and kept them even when they proved to be failures. Parcells seemed to attract better coaches or probably identified them better.

I will never forgive Parcells for walking out like he did in '91. But I would pick Bill over Tom because he had a better understanding of his players and built better coaching staffs.
Not to mention better press conferences.


You note 2006, but then fail to mention the adjustment made AFTER 2006, and the incredible impact it had on the players and team. It's not easy for a 60 year old man to completely change his coaching approach, but he did.

They were both great, I don't see the need to choose one. Different eras. Much different.
Parcells  
MotownGIANTS : 8/4/2020 9:09 am : link
TC learned to have a degree of "charm" .... But BP just innately had the charm and ability to read people and motivate them. From an X and O perspective and managing assistants I also give Bill an edge, due to assistant management. Then of course BP has the better record.
RE: RE: Tougher choice than it  
section125 : 8/4/2020 9:12 am : link
In comment 14943580 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 14943542 section125 said:


Quote:


seems straight up. Coughlin was a PIA to his players. Parcells was, but in a different way. Coughlin very nearly lost the team after 2006 by being a hard ass and intractable. Never heard of Parcells almost losing the team. Tom was too loyal to his assistant coaches and kept them even when they proved to be failures. Parcells seemed to attract better coaches or probably identified them better.

I will never forgive Parcells for walking out like he did in '91. But I would pick Bill over Tom because he had a better understanding of his players and built better coaching staffs.
Not to mention better press conferences.



You note 2006, but then fail to mention the adjustment made AFTER 2006, and the incredible impact it had on the players and team. It's not easy for a 60 year old man to completely change his coaching approach, but he did.

They were both great, I don't see the need to choose one. Different eras. Much different.


Why would I need to note that change as it was noted by saying he almost lost the team? He had to or be fired. He lost Tiki because of his attitude. Fact remains, he almost lost the team, Parcells never did.
He lost the team?  
Britt in VA : 8/4/2020 9:13 am : link
I think that's a bit of a reach.
Yes, he almost lost the team. Here is a good refresher  
LBH15 : 8/4/2020 10:00 am : link

https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/tom-coughlin-changed-ways-won-giants/story?id=36089018
I saw nothing in there that said he almost lost the team.  
Britt in VA : 8/4/2020 10:05 am : link
Nada.

Mara told him he needed to lighten up, and he sought advice how to better reach his players.

Tiki hated him so much he ran for 300 yards in the final game of the season for a win and in game to get into the playoffs?
Maybe lost the team means something different to me than it does  
Britt in VA : 8/4/2020 10:06 am : link
to you.

So Strahan and Tiki hated him. What didn't those two bitch about through the years?
Ben McAdoo lost the team.  
Britt in VA : 8/4/2020 10:07 am : link
.
Ok, whatever  
LBH15 : 8/4/2020 10:07 am : link
.
not sure if this fits everyone's  
Enzo : 8/4/2020 10:28 am : link
definition of losing the team, but TC had two seasons where the team just flat didn't show up for meaningful games down the stretch (2009 and 2012). 2009 was especially horrific. They're 8-6 heading home to play the last game ever in Giants Stadium and they find themselves losing to the Panthers and the immortal Matt Moore 31-0 early in the 3rd quarter. The very next week, they're losing 31-0 to the Vikings at halftime.
Opinionated discussions  
crick n NC : 8/4/2020 11:11 am : link
On BBI Are generally bottom of the barrel. Several responses in this thread highlight that.
...  
christian : 8/4/2020 11:21 am : link
As far as coaching the Giants, I go Parcells, but it’s close.

Parcells: 77-49 (.610) 2 Champions, 5 playoffs, 2 losing seasons
Coughlin: 103-90 (.531) 2 Championships, 5 playoffs, 4 losing seasons

Coughlin had the advantage of a HOF QB for 11 years, every snap. Of all the variables and counter points, QB in 1990 is the challenge Parcells faced that Coughlin never did.
RE: ...  
DieHard : 8/4/2020 12:33 pm : link
In comment 14943668 christian said:
Quote:
As far as coaching the Giants, I go Parcells, but it’s close.

Parcells: 77-49 (.610) 2 Champions, 5 playoffs, 2 losing seasons
Coughlin: 103-90 (.531) 2 Championships, 5 playoffs, 4 losing seasons

Coughlin had the advantage of a HOF QB for 11 years, every snap. Of all the variables and counter points, QB in 1990 is the challenge Parcells faced that Coughlin never did.


No doubt Parcells' job down the stretch in 1990 is probably the best head coaching performance in Giants history. I'd be curious to see what would have happened had Parcells stuck around a few more years -- would his record have come down a bit, especially when going against Jimmy Johnson's more talented Dallas teams? I think the major strike against Coughlin is that he hung around too long (not to mention other factors that depleted the team).

But to be fair, while Coughlin had the advantage of Eli, I wouldn't say Simms was far behind (some still put him ahead of Eli), and Parcells also had the benefit of the greatest destructive force in NFL history on defense.
RE: ...  
Britt in VA : 8/4/2020 12:35 pm : link
In comment 14943668 christian said:
Quote:
As far as coaching the Giants, I go Parcells, but it’s close.

Parcells: 77-49 (.610) 2 Champions, 5 playoffs, 2 losing seasons
Coughlin: 103-90 (.531) 2 Championships, 5 playoffs, 4 losing seasons

Coughlin had the advantage of a HOF QB for 11 years, every snap. Of all the variables and counter points, QB in 1990 is the challenge Parcells faced that Coughlin never did.


Fair. I don't really rank one above the other, but just as a counterpoint to the HOF QB Coughlin had, Parcells had the HOF DC (who definitely helped out a lot during that 1990 situation). Oh, and Lawrence Taylor.
And that's not meant as a knock on Parcells, either.  
Britt in VA : 8/4/2020 12:38 pm : link
I'm sure Parcells had a LOT to do with Belichick's development. He did that for a lot of coaches.
'Better Head Coach: Parcells or Coughlin?'  
Torrag : 8/4/2020 12:44 pm : link
Yes, definitely better than any other coaches we've had in my lifetime.
Coughlin was fired 3 times  
fkap : 8/4/2020 6:02 pm : link
although only twice as HC.
Once, if you drink the Kool-Aid and buy into the technicality of his retirement.

Down the stretch of his final years here, I felt he got less than the sum of the parts out of the team. Not that the quality was great, but I left each season thinking wins were left on the table.
RE: Coughlin was fired 3 times  
Enzo : 8/4/2020 7:14 pm : link
In comment 14943911 fkap said:
Quote:
although only twice as HC.
Once, if you drink the Kool-Aid and buy into the technicality of his retirement.

Down the stretch of his final years here, I felt he got less than the sum of the parts out of the team. Not that the quality was great, but I left each season thinking wins were left on the table.

wins were left on the table in several regular seasons under TC....when there was quality on the roster.
RE: Coughlin was fired 3 times  
Britt in VA : 8/4/2020 8:34 pm : link
In comment 14943911 fkap said:
Quote:
although only twice as HC.
Once, if you drink the Kool-Aid and buy into the technicality of his retirement.

Down the stretch of his final years here, I felt he got less than the sum of the parts out of the team. Not that the quality was great, but I left each season thinking wins were left on the table.


What's better? Putting in the effort and trying to weather rebuilds to come out on the other sied? Or just quitting and heading off to greener pastures?
When the going gets tough, and all that....  
Britt in VA : 8/4/2020 8:35 pm : link
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