I am probably in the "would have preferred Atkinson over Thibs" but I am by no means unhappy with Thibs. He's a smart, tireless worker who has been successful. I think I read that he has a 59% win pct with his two respective teams and those teams have won at a 39% clip since his departure. Powerful #s.
The consensus on the type of player that succeeds under Thibs is one that is hyper-competitive, smart, unselfish (winning intanglibles). The type of player that struggles are the primadonna types, the "ME" players, the guys who are so easily broken by tough opponents and in game adversity. Frankly, this is the type of player the NYK has collected...towards putrid results. From Melo, KP (higher end) to THJ (medium end) to DSJ (lower end), you see common denominators like selfishness, lack of fitness physical toughness, injury tendencies, inability to contribute in ways other than scoring. In short, these are not winning type of players.
As I watch these games since the restart and look forward to overhauling the roster, I know shooting, athleticism, length etc. are key traits. But I would also love to acquire the kind of mentalities that we often see on players on teams like Boston, Toronto, Miami etc.
FA target that fits this mold: Fred Vanvleet
Draft targets that fit this mold in the lottery: Avdija, maybe even Anthony, Okoro, Okongwu
Draft targets that fit this mold for their 2nd, 3rd pick: Bane, Flynn, Bey, Tillman, Riller, Stewart
VanVleet, Vassell, RJ, Mitch, Frank with Thibs coaching them - teams would at least have to battle to win games.
Yeah championship pedigree, knows what it takes to win, not a traditional point but youbknow what you are going to get from him..
I still want Lavine to, FVV lavine Barrett and Mitch is a good core
FVV and Ball could work together right? You slide RJ up to the 3.
Dan ive been a big Montrezl fan since he was in HOU. Id love to add him with FVV.
Ball
FVV
RJ
Montrezl
Mitch
let Randle come off the bench to carry the offensive load.
I think VanVleet is staying in Toronto
Draft Obi Toppin or Deni Avdija in the front of the draft
Draft a shooter Malachi Flynn, Cassius Winston, or Desmond Bane the back half of the 1st.
I think VanVleet is staying in Toronto
Draft Obi Toppin or Deni Avdija in the front of the draft
Draft a shooter Malachi Flynn, Cassius Winston, or Desmond Bane the back half of the 1st.
Gallo won't be cheap. His market will likely be robust. Poor FA market.
Why is everyone sure he is leaving?
Doesn't it make sense for Toronto to Max him and build around him since Lowery has 1 year at 30 million left after this year.
Why is everyone sure he is leaving?
Doesn't it make sense for Toronto to Max him and build around him since Lowery has 1 year at 30 million left after this year.
They dont have max space, they can go over to sign him, but are they willing to pay luxury tax to resign him
VanVleet, Vassell, RJ, Mitch, Frank with Thibs coaching them - teams would at least have to battle to win games.
The FSU guys (Devin Vassell, Patrick Williams) have eluded my radar. I'll check them out:
Is Vassell sort of a more athletic Mikal Bridges?
Is Williams a Stanley Johnson type of prospect? (btw I have no clue why Stanley Johnson has failed thus far)
Why is everyone sure he is leaving?
Doesn't it make sense for Toronto to Max him and build around him since Lowery has 1 year at 30 million left after this year.
I think they'd have to overspend to keep him. All things equal, tough to see him leaving Toronto
Agreed
Link - ( New Window )
Where are you hearing this as I am hearing the complete opposite? I have heard that they don't feel Ball is a good fit with Robinson and Barrett. I have heard they are happy to draft back in the lottery and like both Kira Lewis and Cole Anthony. Also, they want to trade up to get Aaron Nesmith.
Also, I have heard they have no interest in FVV, as they want cap flex for 2021. There will be more one year contracts given out.
-outstanding athleticism
-good shooter
-terrific defender, both on and off the ball especially off the ball
-mature, driven, competitive kid
-may be underrated after playing with a terrible UNC team and probably coming back a bit too early from injury
Minus:
-not an unwilling passer but not an anticipatory passer either
-shot selection questionable but may be linked to bad college team
-6'3" but not long armed
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hearing the Knicks love Ball FWIW
Where are you hearing this as I am hearing the complete opposite? I have heard that they don't feel Ball is a good fit with Robinson and Barrett. I have heard they are happy to draft back in the lottery and like both Kira Lewis and Cole Anthony. Also, they want to trade up to get Aaron Nesmith.
Also, I have heard they have no interest in FVV, as they want cap flex for 2021. There will be more one year contracts given out.
One of the top draft analysts told me flat out that the Knicks would love to move up for Ball if necessary and are higher on Wiseman than some other teams (he doesn’t care for Wiseman)
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In comment 14943691 DanMetroMan said:
I have heard otherwise from a Knicks beat writer, so if there is conflicting reports out there, but I can't see Ball a fit with Barrett and Robinson unless they are going to trade those guys. Kira Lewis or Cole Anthony are better fits without the headache of the Ball family.
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hearing the Knicks love Ball FWIW
Where are you hearing this as I am hearing the complete opposite? I have heard that they don't feel Ball is a good fit with Robinson and Barrett. I have heard they are happy to draft back in the lottery and like both Kira Lewis and Cole Anthony. Also, they want to trade up to get Aaron Nesmith.
Also, I have heard they have no interest in FVV, as they want cap flex for 2021. There will be more one year contracts given out.
One of the top draft analysts told me flat out that the Knicks would love to move up for Ball if necessary and are higher on Wiseman than some other teams (he doesn’t care for Wiseman)
Recently, he called the Thibs hiring before it happened, so I'm hoping his track record stays solid
What are your thoughts on him (I'm certainly open to a dissenting opinion)? Do you think he's an Austin Rivers type (combo guard with questionable instincts)?
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absolutely be livid about.
What are your thoughts on him (I'm certainly open to a dissenting opinion)? Do you think he's an Austin Rivers type (combo guard with questionable instincts)?
Basically. He's high volume low %, iffy athlete, old for his grade, not a great defender.
He's a less athletic DSJ.
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In comment 14943772 Jon in NYC said:
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absolutely be livid about.
What are your thoughts on him (I'm certainly open to a dissenting opinion)? Do you think he's an Austin Rivers type (combo guard with questionable instincts)?
Basically. He's high volume low %, iffy athlete, old for his grade, not a great defender.
He's a less athletic DSJ.
No argument on being shot happy and old for his class (although the latter bother me).
I don't think CA is DSJ because I think he is an "honest day's work", highly competitive player whereas I think DSJ is a lazy player whose on his way out of the league (he literally does nothing well outside of dunk). I also think CA will be a plus defender (lateral quicks like a good cornerback and great understanding of rotations).
Next years top 8-10 is so stacked. You could make a case that any of the top 8 next year would go #1 this year. Would love to go into next year with our own lottery pick and 2 other first rounders Dallas and Orlando.
I would also ar some point this year target Bradley Beal. They probably won’t trade him until the trade deadline with Wall coming back. I would offer upwards of 3 first round picks for him and anyone else on the roster not named Robinson or Barrett.
If he is not obtainable I would take a a chance on lavine or aaron Gordon. I don’t think the cost would be crazy high for either. Probably an unprotected 1st rounder, knox/Smith and Randle for contracts matching may get it done
PG - Curry
SG - Thompson
SF - Wiggins
PF - Draymond
C - ???
PG - Curry
SG - Thompson
SF - Wiggins
PF - Draymond
C - ???
Wiseman is a good fit for GS.
he is long and athletic.
good shot blocker and finisher around the rim.
Its a good chance they don't end up with the first pick.
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@TheNBACentral
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Woj is a spiteful person. He was probably plotting his next move the minute they suspended him.
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it still says ESPN NBA insider
2 Killian Hayes
3 LaMelo Ball
4 Tyrese Haliburton
5 Kira Lewis Jr.
6 Cole Anthony
7 Onyeka Okongwu
8 Obi Toppin
9 Devin Vassell
10 Saddiq Bey
11 Aaron Nesmith
I would be more inclined to trade Edwards or Wiseman than draft them for our own purposes (I think its very likely they bust).
2 Killian Hayes
3 LaMelo Ball
4 Tyrese Haliburton
5 Kira Lewis Jr.
6 Cole Anthony
7 Onyeka Okongwu
8 Obi Toppin
9 Devin Vassell
10 Saddiq Bey
11 Aaron Nesmith
I would be more inclined to trade Edwards or Wiseman than draft them for our purposes (I think it's very likely they bust).
What makes you think Wiseman is a bust?
I think he is Mitchell Robinson with a better jumper.
Perfect fit for GS.
Very happy we didnt do that. Don't love RJ, but Garland is even less exciting.
What makes you think Wiseman is a bust?
I think he is Mitchell Robinson with a better jumper.
Perfect fit for GS.
What evidence is there that Wiseman has a better jumper than Mitch? Mitch is also the better athlete, has quicker feet which helps on defense when you're asking your center to do anything more than protect the rim. Maybe Wiseman develops his gifts faster/further than Mitch will in the coming years but I don't see the argument for Wiseman being a better talent than Mitch and we already know what Mitch's floor looks like.
Look at golden state a couple of injuries and they go from being best to worst team.
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What makes you think Wiseman is a bust?
I think he is Mitchell Robinson with a better jumper.
Perfect fit for GS.
What evidence is there that Wiseman has a better jumper than Mitch? Mitch is also the better athlete, has quicker feet which helps on defense when you're asking your center to do anything more than protect the rim. Maybe Wiseman develops his gifts faster/further than Mitch will in the coming years but I don't see the argument for Wiseman being a better talent than Mitch and we already know what Mitch's floor looks like.
Wiseman can play with his back to the basket and is a much better ball handler.
also he is building a mid range that Mitch doesn't have.
watch the highlight video (not a fan of highlight videos normally)
it shows his jumper and his ball handling.
I am a Mitch fan but he doesn't have Wiseman around game.
Wiseman highlights - ( New Window )
Obviously its easy to move off the ball playing with Lillard and Mcollum but he is playing well in all facets
Wiseman can play with his back to the basket and is a much better ball handler.
also he is building a mid range that Mitch doesn't have.
watch the highlight video (not a fan of highlight videos normally)
it shows his jumper and his ball handling.
I am a Mitch fan but he doesn't have Wiseman around game. Wiseman highlights - ( New Window )
I watched the video and I just don't see what you do. Since he hardly played in college, it's all there is to go off of but he's playing against players a foot shorter than him in high school so he's basically hitting wide open jumpers and posting up guys that don't stand a chance. He hit 2 mid range shots in the 3 games he played in college and from what I've seen he doesn't have any post moves to speak of. His footwork needs a lot of work and he typically settles for fadeaways (which is fine in HS or college playing agains guys who are 6'7 and under but won't work in the NBA). see this video for what I'm talking about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2XHtqbsVqQ
I didn't see him handle the ball much but in the clips but when he did, I didn't think he was a better ball handler than Mitch. He dribbles high and doesn't have a quick first step and isn't all that crafty so at the NBA level I don't think that'll be a factor.
This highlight video of Mitch in HS has him doing all of the same things Wiseman is in that video (to my eyes at least). Also, in the training videos he's posted this offseason, we've seen hitting three's and crossing guys up which is in a pretty similar environment to Wiseman in HS. That is to say, I'm not buying it from either of them yet.
Mitch HS highlights - ( New Window )
I think Perry is pretty low on the totem pole despite being the GM, i dont think he has much say, Berman saying it is Perrys draft i think is stir up bs
I lean toward this being the case, but his presence still irritates me. Seems like he kissed enough ass to keep his job.
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I think Perry is pretty low on the totem pole despite being the GM, i dont think he has much say, Berman saying it is Perrys draft i think is stir up bs
I lean toward this being the case, but his presence still irritates me. Seems like he kissed enough ass to keep his job.
I think he is here for a year to answer phone calls and one of the assistant gms will be thr gm next year..
I missed this tidbit the first time around. Thanks. Doesn't surprise me at all - Leon and Wes are gonna try to reel in a big fish.
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Wiseman can play with his back to the basket and is a much better ball handler.
also he is building a mid range that Mitch doesn't have.
watch the highlight video (not a fan of highlight videos normally)
it shows his jumper and his ball handling.
I am a Mitch fan but he doesn't have Wiseman around game. Wiseman highlights - ( New Window )
I watched the video and I just don't see what you do. Since he hardly played in college, it's all there is to go off of but he's playing against players a foot shorter than him in high school so he's basically hitting wide open jumpers and posting up guys that don't stand a chance. He hit 2 mid range shots in the 3 games he played in college and from what I've seen he doesn't have any post moves to speak of. His footwork needs a lot of work and he typically settles for fadeaways (which is fine in HS or college playing agains guys who are 6'7 and under but won't work in the NBA). see this video for what I'm talking about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2XHtqbsVqQ
I didn't see him handle the ball much but in the clips but when he did, I didn't think he was a better ball handler than Mitch. He dribbles high and doesn't have a quick first step and isn't all that crafty so at the NBA level I don't think that'll be a factor.
This highlight video of Mitch in HS has him doing all of the same things Wiseman is in that video (to my eyes at least). Also, in the training videos he's posted this offseason, we've seen hitting three's and crossing guys up which is in a pretty similar environment to Wiseman in HS. That is to say, I'm not buying it from either of them yet. Mitch HS highlights - ( New Window )
agree to disagree and we will see how it plays out.
You dont think they would have interest in Barrett?
Utah has zero cap room
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interested in trading Mitch but just the Knicks luck that their most valuable chip is someone who Utah would have zero interest in.
You dont think they would have interest in Barrett?
Utah has zero cap room
I think Mitch would be the Knicks #1 chip right now. Barrett seems quite polarizing.
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In comment 14944400 DanMetroMan said:
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interested in trading Mitch but just the Knicks luck that their most valuable chip is someone who Utah would have zero interest in.
You dont think they would have interest in Barrett?
Utah has zero cap room
I think Mitch would be the Knicks #1 chip right now. Barrett seems quite polarizing.
Oh i definitely agree with that..
I think it would have to be barrett this years 1, next years 1 and future 1 at minimun
I'd offer:
RJB
This year's 1
Frank
Knox
for
Mitchell
and we'd take on Conley's contract
It really hurts watching SGA and Porter flashing big time abilities and comparing them to Knox. Comparing Wiseman to Mitch may be like comparing SGA to Knox. Knox is the better athlete for sure, but he's not half the player SGA is. It's baffling how weak the mental part of his game is despite having a professional athlete father.
I mean if RJ has a big season and our pick this year shows enough to be enticing to a team then maybe you can put something together. But honestly if RJ plays well enough that you can get Mitchell with him headlining the deal then we might be better off keeping him and the other assets it would take.
Exactly. I've already made my opinion known on this thread but for the life of me I don't see what others do in Wiseman. Comparing Wiseman/Mitch to SGA/Knox isn't at all fair. Knox was in the same draft, SGA/Frank is the better comparison. The difference though is that Mitch is already a useful NBA player. Frank was not. Rather it was the sunk cost of having used a lottery pick on him in the previous year.
I'm not ready to lose sleep over this one yet. I'd much rather we have Porter than Knox who I think is useless and likely a lost cause. But I'm not sold that Porter will be able to stay healthy while playing real minutes at the NBA level. That's a risk we should have taken but it's still very much a risk that the jury is still out on.
We did need a good coach though. Now the Knicks need to work together and deal from strength. Add good players and build something. Don’t over think things but don’t be stupid either. Add talent. Coach talent. Win.
Look, we are not the Lakers. The league isn't gifting us three 2nd picks in a row and stars aren't flocking to sign with us. We can't be fucking up draft picks like we have been.
Need to nail this upcoming draft.
Look, we are not the Lakers. The league isn't gifting us three 2nd picks in a row and stars aren't flocking to sign with us. We can't be fucking up draft picks like we have been.
Need to nail this upcoming draft.
I feel good looking forward (not back) with Thibs developing guys like Robinson and the front office acquiring a lead guard to facilitate things for everyone but especially a BIG like Robinson.
It is interesting Knicks hired an exec that basically ran their drafts..
Unfortunately, emptying the war chest for him is the most likely scenario he winds up here any time soon. Just because he's open to NY doesn't mean he won't sign an extension in Miami or elsewhere if Utah trades him.
Absolutely seems like the plan, get 1 guy in here to attract a guy next year..
Mills and Perry were scared last year i think, once KD and Irving were out they panicked and rather at looking at other max level guys, they went with whoever would take 1 year deals..
Yikes. Not good for the 76ers.
The key difference would (hopefully) be that the Knicks would still have cap space to add to Mitchell. When the Knicks made the Melo deal they had Amare on the books for max money and took Billups back too. Now (and this point has been beaten to death I acknowledge) things could've been very different had they not picked up Billups' option or not used the amnesty clause on him. They could've used it on Amare and then let Billups' deal expire and had two max slots or close + Melo
Yep, good point. If they can trade for Mitchell, they're gonna do it no matter the cost. As someone mentioned above, Mitchell is probably not a #1 guy on a title contender, but may be a #1a. What's RJ? A #3 guy at best on a title contender? Same for Mitchell Robinson. They'll throw in a couple of picks and take that upgrade, and bank on landing a second star in free agency.
Sign FVV to 3 year, 75 Mil
FVV, Lavine, Melo, Lauri, Mitch
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The key difference would (hopefully) be that the Knicks would still have cap space to add to Mitchell. When the Knicks made the Melo deal they had Amare on the books for max money and took Billups back too.
Yep, good point. If they can trade for Mitchell, they're gonna do it no matter the cost. As someone mentioned above, Mitchell is probably not a #1 guy on a title contender, but may be a #1a. What's RJ? A #3 guy at best on a title contender? Same for Mitchell Robinson. They'll throw in a couple of picks and take that upgrade, and bank on landing a second star in free agency.
You could trade for Mitchell or any star, and fit another 2 superstars on the roster with star and robinson on the roster..
Of course the roster would have no one else lol..
Yes....a shame...