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NFT: NYK Chat

NYG22 : 8/4/2020 11:01 am
I am probably in the "would have preferred Atkinson over Thibs" but I am by no means unhappy with Thibs. He's a smart, tireless worker who has been successful. I think I read that he has a 59% win pct with his two respective teams and those teams have won at a 39% clip since his departure. Powerful #s.

The consensus on the type of player that succeeds under Thibs is one that is hyper-competitive, smart, unselfish (winning intanglibles). The type of player that struggles are the primadonna types, the "ME" players, the guys who are so easily broken by tough opponents and in game adversity. Frankly, this is the type of player the NYK has collected...towards putrid results. From Melo, KP (higher end) to THJ (medium end) to DSJ (lower end), you see common denominators like selfishness, lack of fitness physical toughness, injury tendencies, inability to contribute in ways other than scoring. In short, these are not winning type of players.

As I watch these games since the restart and look forward to overhauling the roster, I know shooting, athleticism, length etc. are key traits. But I would also love to acquire the kind of mentalities that we often see on players on teams like Boston, Toronto, Miami etc.

FA target that fits this mold: Fred Vanvleet

Draft targets that fit this mold in the lottery: Avdija, maybe even Anthony, Okoro, Okongwu

Draft targets that fit this mold for their 2nd, 3rd pick: Bane, Flynn, Bey, Tillman, Riller, Stewart
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Well said, I hope the roster is infused  
bceagle05 : 8/4/2020 11:38 am : link
with guys who fit your description. I would add FSU's Devin Vassell to your list of first round targets. I'd rather take him at 7/8 instead of the third or fourth best PG at that spot, unless we're trading down for a guy like Kira Lewis. At the very least, I want to root for a team that's tough to play against and earns opponents' respect - visiting teams treat the Garden like their home court, and it's embarrassing.

VanVleet, Vassell, RJ, Mitch, Frank with Thibs coaching them - teams would at least have to battle to win games.

I'm back in on FVV  
Jon in NYC : 8/4/2020 11:42 am : link
I think. Could probably get him at 3 years//75, which is steep, but possibly worth it without a massive commitment. Could/should pair him with a big PG: Frank/Hayes/Ball/Haliburton

100%  
DanMetroMan : 8/4/2020 11:47 am : link
in on FVV, and I'd love a run at Harrell
RE: I'm back in on FVV  
nygiants16 : 8/4/2020 11:48 am : link
In comment 14943679 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
I think. Could probably get him at 3 years//75, which is steep, but possibly worth it without a massive commitment. Could/should pair him with a big PG: Frank/Hayes/Ball/Haliburton


Yeah championship pedigree, knows what it takes to win, not a traditional point but youbknow what you are going to get from him..

I still want Lavine to, FVV lavine Barrett and Mitch is a good core
Still  
DanMetroMan : 8/4/2020 11:50 am : link
hearing the Knicks love Ball FWIW
100% on FVV...  
Italianju : 8/4/2020 11:56 am : link
the guy is getting better and better. You see his line against MIA yesterday? And he plays with some good players (lowry/Siakim) but its not like he is doing all this because a Lebron or Kawhi is taking all the attention.

FVV and Ball could work together right? You slide RJ up to the 3.

Dan ive been a big Montrezl fan since he was in HOU. Id love to add him with FVV.

Ball
FVV
RJ
Montrezl
Mitch

let Randle come off the bench to carry the offensive load.
oops...  
Italianju : 8/4/2020 11:56 am : link
let randle carry the offensive load for the second unit, i meant. Im sure you all got what i meant, ha.
I am hoping they go after  
larryflower37 : 8/4/2020 12:00 pm : link
Christian Wood in FA and maybe Danilo Gallinari on the cheap.

I think VanVleet is staying in Toronto

Draft Obi Toppin or Deni Avdija in the front of the draft

Draft a shooter Malachi Flynn, Cassius Winston, or Desmond Bane the back half of the 1st.
Harrell  
DanMetroMan : 8/4/2020 12:02 pm : link
works his ass off, is in his prime, and is the kind of JYD that Knicks fans would love. Walk before we can run. Harrell + FVV + the 2 1st rounders + hopeful growth of the young players. Yes please. 27 in January.
RE: I am hoping they go after  
DanMetroMan : 8/4/2020 12:03 pm : link
In comment 14943703 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
Christian Wood in FA and maybe Danilo Gallinari on the cheap.

I think VanVleet is staying in Toronto

Draft Obi Toppin or Deni Avdija in the front of the draft

Draft a shooter Malachi Flynn, Cassius Winston, or Desmond Bane the back half of the 1st.


Gallo won't be cheap. His market will likely be robust. Poor FA market.
Ball and FVV would work really well  
nygiants16 : 8/4/2020 12:12 pm : link
Ball could run the offense, fvv would be good off thr ball, defensively Ball is big enough to guard 2s while FVV takes point guards..
Ball  
DanMetroMan : 8/4/2020 12:13 pm : link
is a much better athlete than he's given credit for.
Toronto has the cap space, VanVleet  
larryflower37 : 8/4/2020 12:14 pm : link
has said he loves Toronto and he is turning into their #1 option
Why is everyone sure he is leaving?

Doesn't it make sense for Toronto to Max him and build around him since Lowery has 1 year at 30 million left after this year.
RE: Toronto has the cap space, VanVleet  
nygiants16 : 8/4/2020 12:16 pm : link
In comment 14943719 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
has said he loves Toronto and he is turning into their #1 option
Why is everyone sure he is leaving?

Doesn't it make sense for Toronto to Max him and build around him since Lowery has 1 year at 30 million left after this year.


They dont have max space, they can go over to sign him, but are they willing to pay luxury tax to resign him
RE: Well said, I hope the roster is infused  
NYG22 : 8/4/2020 12:20 pm : link
In comment 14943676 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
with guys who fit your description. I would add FSU's Devin Vassell to your list of first round targets. I'd rather take him at 7/8 instead of the third or fourth best PG at that spot, unless we're trading down for a guy like Kira Lewis. At the very least, I want to root for a team that's tough to play against and earns opponents' respect - visiting teams treat the Garden like their home court, and it's embarrassing.

VanVleet, Vassell, RJ, Mitch, Frank with Thibs coaching them - teams would at least have to battle to win games.


The FSU guys (Devin Vassell, Patrick Williams) have eluded my radar. I'll check them out:

Is Vassell sort of a more athletic Mikal Bridges?

Is Williams a Stanley Johnson type of prospect? (btw I have no clue why Stanley Johnson has failed thus far)
I  
DanMetroMan : 8/4/2020 12:27 pm : link
was completely wrong liking Stanley Johnson BUT... the Knicks should be taking DSJ like gambles all day every day. Failed high picks.
I was dead wrong about SJ too  
NYG22 : 8/4/2020 12:30 pm : link
but I've seen enough of DSJ. Guys just doesn't compete hard enough on game day and clearly isn't putting in the work in skill development.
First thing that needs to happen is knicks get  
nygiants16 : 8/4/2020 12:34 pm : link
the number 1 pick, this way they do not have to trade up for Lamelo
RE: Toronto has the cap space, VanVleet  
Jon in NYC : 8/4/2020 12:35 pm : link
In comment 14943719 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
has said he loves Toronto and he is turning into their #1 option
Why is everyone sure he is leaving?

Doesn't it make sense for Toronto to Max him and build around him since Lowery has 1 year at 30 million left after this year.


I think they'd have to overspend to keep him. All things equal, tough to see him leaving Toronto
RE: Ball  
Jon in NYC : 8/4/2020 12:36 pm : link
In comment 14943717 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
is a much better athlete than he's given credit for.


Agreed
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Still  
Pete44 : 8/4/2020 12:44 pm : link
In comment 14943691 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
hearing the Knicks love Ball FWIW


Where are you hearing this as I am hearing the complete opposite? I have heard that they don't feel Ball is a good fit with Robinson and Barrett. I have heard they are happy to draft back in the lottery and like both Kira Lewis and Cole Anthony. Also, they want to trade up to get Aaron Nesmith.

Also, I have heard they have no interest in FVV, as they want cap flex for 2021. There will be more one year contracts given out.
Cole Anthony  
NYG22 : 8/4/2020 12:48 pm : link
Plus:

-outstanding athleticism
-good shooter
-terrific defender, both on and off the ball especially off the ball
-mature, driven, competitive kid
-may be underrated after playing with a terrible UNC team and probably coming back a bit too early from injury

Minus:

-not an unwilling passer but not an anticipatory passer either
-shot selection questionable but may be linked to bad college team
-6'3" but not long armed
$ dollar questions w Ball  
NYG22 : 8/4/2020 12:51 pm : link
are maturity, shooting
RE: RE: Still  
DanMetroMan : 8/4/2020 12:53 pm : link
In comment 14943753 Pete44 said:
Quote:
In comment 14943691 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


hearing the Knicks love Ball FWIW



Where are you hearing this as I am hearing the complete opposite? I have heard that they don't feel Ball is a good fit with Robinson and Barrett. I have heard they are happy to draft back in the lottery and like both Kira Lewis and Cole Anthony. Also, they want to trade up to get Aaron Nesmith.

Also, I have heard they have no interest in FVV, as they want cap flex for 2021. There will be more one year contracts given out.


One of the top draft analysts told me flat out that the Knicks would love to move up for Ball if necessary and are higher on Wiseman than some other teams (he doesn’t care for Wiseman)
RE: RE: RE: Still  
Pete44 : 8/4/2020 12:55 pm : link
In comment 14943760 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 14943753 Pete44 said:


Quote:


In comment 14943691 DanMetroMan said:


I have heard otherwise from a Knicks beat writer, so if there is conflicting reports out there, but I can't see Ball a fit with Barrett and Robinson unless they are going to trade those guys. Kira Lewis or Cole Anthony are better fits without the headache of the Ball family.



Quote:


hearing the Knicks love Ball FWIW



Where are you hearing this as I am hearing the complete opposite? I have heard that they don't feel Ball is a good fit with Robinson and Barrett. I have heard they are happy to draft back in the lottery and like both Kira Lewis and Cole Anthony. Also, they want to trade up to get Aaron Nesmith.

Also, I have heard they have no interest in FVV, as they want cap flex for 2021. There will be more one year contracts given out.



One of the top draft analysts told me flat out that the Knicks would love to move up for Ball if necessary and are higher on Wiseman than some other teams (he doesn’t care for Wiseman)
I don't see the point of Wiseman  
Greg from LI : 8/4/2020 1:05 pm : link
Unless they plan on trading Robinson.
Wiseman  
NYG22 : 8/4/2020 1:10 pm : link
is the one lottery guy that I'd give a thumbs down (mainly b/c of Mitch Robinson a glaring roster holes elsewhere).
Cole Anthony is probably the one guy I'd  
Jon in NYC : 8/4/2020 1:15 pm : link
absolutely be livid about.
I felt much..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/4/2020 1:15 pm : link
better last week when a friend who usually has solid info on the team said they are not looking at Ball. I want nothing to do with him.

Recently, he called the Thibs hiring before it happened, so I'm hoping his track record stays solid
RE: Cole Anthony is probably the one guy I'd  
NYG22 : 8/4/2020 1:24 pm : link
In comment 14943772 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
absolutely be livid about.


What are your thoughts on him (I'm certainly open to a dissenting opinion)? Do you think he's an Austin Rivers type (combo guard with questionable instincts)?
RE: RE: Cole Anthony is probably the one guy I'd  
Jon in NYC : 8/4/2020 1:57 pm : link
In comment 14943776 NYG22 said:
Quote:
In comment 14943772 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


absolutely be livid about.



What are your thoughts on him (I'm certainly open to a dissenting opinion)? Do you think he's an Austin Rivers type (combo guard with questionable instincts)?


Basically. He's high volume low %, iffy athlete, old for his grade, not a great defender.

He's a less athletic DSJ.
RE: RE: RE: Cole Anthony is probably the one guy I'd  
NYG22 : 8/4/2020 2:26 pm : link
In comment 14943789 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 14943776 NYG22 said:


Quote:


In comment 14943772 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


absolutely be livid about.



What are your thoughts on him (I'm certainly open to a dissenting opinion)? Do you think he's an Austin Rivers type (combo guard with questionable instincts)?



Basically. He's high volume low %, iffy athlete, old for his grade, not a great defender.

He's a less athletic DSJ.


No argument on being shot happy and old for his class (although the latter bother me).

I don't think CA is DSJ because I think he is an "honest day's work", highly competitive player whereas I think DSJ is a lazy player whose on his way out of the league (he literally does nothing well outside of dunk). I also think CA will be a plus defender (lateral quicks like a good cornerback and great understanding of rotations).
Knicks should trade this lottery pick the draft stinks up top  
GMEN46 : 8/4/2020 2:26 pm : link
Look at a team like orlando who is going to be in the mid 1st round, see if they will trade an unprotected #1 in next years draft with their mid teen 2020 pick for knicks lottery pick this year and their second rounder this year. Throw in Payton or Smith jr if needed.

Next years top 8-10 is so stacked. You could make a case that any of the top 8 next year would go #1 this year. Would love to go into next year with our own lottery pick and 2 other first rounders Dallas and Orlando.

I would also ar some point this year target Bradley Beal. They probably won’t trade him until the trade deadline with Wall coming back. I would offer upwards of 3 first round picks for him and anyone else on the roster not named Robinson or Barrett.

If he is not obtainable I would take a a chance on lavine or aaron Gordon. I don’t think the cost would be crazy high for either. Probably an unprotected 1st rounder, knox/Smith and Randle for contracts matching may get it done
correction  
NYG22 : 8/4/2020 2:26 pm : link
No argument on being shot happy and old for his class (although the latter does not bother me).
I am wondering who GS will trade  
GMEN46 : 8/4/2020 2:30 pm : link
The lottery pick for. They don’t have a package to offer the Knicks to get Mitch Robinson but man he is the missing piece from making them championship favorites for next year. By the way if GS offered the number on oick this year I would not trade Mitch straight for that pick. 2 reasons I don’t think there is a player that has more upside then Mitch in this draft and 2 Mitch is making $1-$2 million per year for the next 2 years vs #1 pick making over $8 million.

PG - Curry
SG - Thompson
SF - Wiggins
PF - Draymond
C - ???

Does the #1 pick  
Carl in CT : 8/4/2020 2:46 pm : link
Get you Mitch?
RE: I am wondering who GS will trade  
larryflower37 : 8/4/2020 3:12 pm : link
In comment 14943811 GMEN46 said:
Quote:
The lottery pick for. They don’t have a package to offer the Knicks to get Mitch Robinson but man he is the missing piece from making them championship favorites for next year. By the way if GS offered the number on oick this year I would not trade Mitch straight for that pick. 2 reasons I don’t think there is a player that has more upside then Mitch in this draft and 2 Mitch is making $1-$2 million per year for the next 2 years vs #1 pick making over $8 million.

PG - Curry
SG - Thompson
SF - Wiggins
PF - Draymond
C - ???

Wiseman is a good fit for GS.
he is long and athletic.
good shot blocker and finisher around the rim.
Its a good chance they don't end up with the first pick.
Woj  
DanMetroMan : 8/4/2020 3:17 pm : link
leaving ESPN?


NBA Central
@TheNBACentral
Woj removed “ESPN Senior NBA Insider” from his bio Face with monocle
RE: Woj  
Enzo : 8/4/2020 3:19 pm : link
In comment 14943844 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
leaving ESPN?


NBA Central
@TheNBACentral
Woj removed “ESPN Senior NBA Insider” from his bio Face with monocle

Woj is a spiteful person. He was probably plotting his next move the minute they suspended him.
RE: Woj  
nygiants16 : 8/4/2020 3:20 pm : link
In comment 14943844 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
leaving ESPN?


NBA Central
@TheNBACentral
Woj removed “ESPN Senior NBA Insider” from his bio Face with monocle


it still says ESPN NBA insider
NYK can drop as far as 11th; here are my top 11  
NYG22 : 8/4/2020 3:30 pm : link
1 Deni Avdija
2 Killian Hayes
3 LaMelo Ball
4 Tyrese Haliburton
5 Kira Lewis Jr.
6 Cole Anthony
7 Onyeka Okongwu
8 Obi Toppin
9 Devin Vassell
10 Saddiq Bey
11 Aaron Nesmith

I would be more inclined to trade Edwards or Wiseman than draft them for our own purposes (I think its very likely they bust).
Apparently  
DanMetroMan : 8/4/2020 3:36 pm : link
Some in the organization wanted to trade the Barrett pick for Garland and another first but Perry balked.
RE: NYK can drop as far as 11th; here are my top 11  
larryflower37 : 8/4/2020 3:43 pm : link
In comment 14943854 NYG22 said:
Quote:
1 Deni Avdija
2 Killian Hayes
3 LaMelo Ball
4 Tyrese Haliburton
5 Kira Lewis Jr.
6 Cole Anthony
7 Onyeka Okongwu
8 Obi Toppin
9 Devin Vassell
10 Saddiq Bey
11 Aaron Nesmith

I would be more inclined to trade Edwards or Wiseman than draft them for our purposes (I think it's very likely they bust).


What makes you think Wiseman is a bust?
I think he is Mitchell Robinson with a better jumper.
Perfect fit for GS.
I think very few  
NYG22 : 8/4/2020 3:56 pm : link
BIGs play with Robinson's motor.
RE: Apparently  
Jon in NYC : 8/4/2020 4:14 pm : link
In comment 14943856 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Some in the organization wanted to trade the Barrett pick for Garland and another first but Perry balked.


Very happy we didnt do that. Don't love RJ, but Garland is even less exciting.
Interested  
Phil in LA : 8/4/2020 4:41 pm : link
To see who the assistant’s are.
Good  
DanMetroMan : 8/4/2020 5:54 pm : link
luck with those Mavs picks ever being anything special. My God is Luka good.
RE: RE: NYK can drop as far as 11th; here are my top 11  
Strahan91 : 8/4/2020 6:04 pm : link
In comment 14943857 larryflower37 said:
Quote:

What makes you think Wiseman is a bust?
I think he is Mitchell Robinson with a better jumper.
Perfect fit for GS.

What evidence is there that Wiseman has a better jumper than Mitch? Mitch is also the better athlete, has quicker feet which helps on defense when you're asking your center to do anything more than protect the rim. Maybe Wiseman develops his gifts faster/further than Mitch will in the coming years but I don't see the argument for Wiseman being a better talent than Mitch and we already know what Mitch's floor looks like.
Mavs picks  
GMEN46 : 8/4/2020 8:20 pm : link
A lot can happen in the next year, porzingis is so injury prone; the west is deep a porzinigis injury and as good doncic is dallas becomes a boardline playoff team next year and could end up being another lottery pick.

Look at golden state a couple of injuries and they go from being best to worst team.
RE: RE: RE: NYK can drop as far as 11th; here are my top 11  
larryflower37 : 8/4/2020 11:28 pm : link
In comment 14943912 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
In comment 14943857 larryflower37 said:


Quote:



What makes you think Wiseman is a bust?
I think he is Mitchell Robinson with a better jumper.
Perfect fit for GS.


What evidence is there that Wiseman has a better jumper than Mitch? Mitch is also the better athlete, has quicker feet which helps on defense when you're asking your center to do anything more than protect the rim. Maybe Wiseman develops his gifts faster/further than Mitch will in the coming years but I don't see the argument for Wiseman being a better talent than Mitch and we already know what Mitch's floor looks like.

Wiseman can play with his back to the basket and is a much better ball handler.
also he is building a mid range that Mitch doesn't have.
watch the highlight video (not a fan of highlight videos normally)
it shows his jumper and his ball handling.
I am a Mitch fan but he doesn't have Wiseman around game.
Wiseman highlights - ( New Window )
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