In the off-season. No way to know who would get it if there's a season vs not.
This is a good point. One could argue they might be safer in the controlled environment.
not only this, and I haven't seen the NFL/NFLPA agreement, but some pro sports the players had to agree to adhere to very specific standards of protection and guidelines and if they breach any of these and it results in COVID they forfeit their pay.
So, I agree, they might be better off than the general population or if they were to opt out/cancel the season.
In the off-season. No way to know who would get it if there's a season vs not.
This is a good point. One could argue they might be safer in the controlled environment.
The problem isn't the environment insomuch as the sport itself. Look how it's spreading in MLB - the most minimal contact major sport. NFL linemen literally wrestle, sweat, breathe heavily, yell and spit all over one another on every single play. If one lineman has it, 100% certainty both lines will have it by game's end.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. All the books we read and movies we saw about Pandemic's - I don't recall a single story that had this *damn the torpedoes* approach.
is that it has been around since at least the 50s. there are 2 strains of the virus, the normal one that is similar to the common cold and the super invasive one that came from China. unfortunately I dont think the testing distinguishes from the 2 and many positive tests are not going to have an impack on these players long term.
As for your original question, I dont think it matters what level the player is. It will be very sad. But at the same time, life needs to start happening again. Everyone needs to start getting back to work and take as much precautions as needed. While football isn't essential, this is a business. If they dont play this season the financial impact will be felt for a long time and the players may not have a league to come back to. They built in an opt out for the players and while a guy like OBJ complains he still wants his check.
Many people are out of work but would go back in a heartbeat because they need money. Players need money.
followed all sports on this. Are there any examples of any athletes suffering permanent damage? I don't recall seeing any.
I'm not sure I can answer a question about permanency in a disease that's 6 months old.
I know of at least one player on the Red Sox who has myocarditis from COVID-19 and is out for the year. What will happen beyond that is anyone's guess.
In the off-season. No way to know who would get it if there's a season vs not.
This is a good point. One could argue they might be safer in the controlled environment.
The problem isn't the environment insomuch as the sport itself. Look how it's spreading in MLB - the most minimal contact major sport. NFL linemen literally wrestle, sweat, breathe heavily, yell and spit all over one another on every single play. If one lineman has it, 100% certainty both lines will have it by game's end.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. All the books we read and movies we saw about Pandemic's - I don't recall a single story that had this *damn the torpedoes* approach.
2020 sucks.
Maybe because none of the would-be authors were around to write one?
is that it has been around since at least the 50s. there are 2 strains of the virus, the normal one that is similar to the common cold and the super invasive one that came from China. unfortunately I dont think the testing distinguishes from the 2 and many positive tests are not going to have an impack on these players long term.
As for your original question, I dont think it matters what level the player is. It will be very sad. But at the same time, life needs to start happening again. Everyone needs to start getting back to work and take as much precautions as needed. While football isn't essential, this is a business. If they dont play this season the financial impact will be felt for a long time and the players may not have a league to come back to. They built in an opt out for the players and while a guy like OBJ complains he still wants his check.
Many people are out of work but would go back in a heartbeat because they need money. Players need money.
That's not even close to true. Novel means exactly what it says.
But the thing with football is it’s a dangerous game, if you’re not prepared as a fan that your favorite player can end their career on any given play, you’re fooling yourself.
Terrell Thomas, Steve Smith and David Wilson to name a few had injuries and in the blink of an eye were either gone or not themselves. I don’t even want to bring up Jason Seahorn.
Does the Covid thing add another layer of risk? Yes. Was there enough risk before where this should be something fans are prepared to handle. Yes. Football is a dangerous sport with or without Covid.
As I've posted, if any athlete is going to get it by playing, it will be football players.
At the same time, pandemic books/movies usually don't have the general population shopping at the grocery store, dropping their kids off at day care, or getting hair cuts either. Those people are all dead in the books/movies.
What's going to be fascinating to watch is if the NFL actually cancels games like MLB. That would rapidly turn the season into a joke.
Wouldn't be shocked if Las Vegas controls if there will be a season...
Losing a QB right before the game is going to create too much inconsistency and lost money and there's far too much influence/control on the league office.
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
With roughly 2,600 players currently on rosters, that’s about 3.5% that have landed on the Reserve/COVID-19 list for any reason (positive test/close contact). It’s early, but the numbers are lower than many expected during initial screening.
— 90 players have been on the reserve list.
— 35 players have been activated from the list, with Jaguars CB Parry Nickerson being the latest.
— 67 of the 90 players put on the Reserve/COVID-19 list are 25 years old or younger.
But the thing with football is it’s a dangerous game, if you’re not prepared as a fan that your favorite player can end their career on any given play, you’re fooling yourself.
Terrell Thomas, Steve Smith and David Wilson to name a few had injuries and in the blink of an eye were either gone or not themselves. I don’t even want to bring up Jason Seahorn.
Does the Covid thing add another layer of risk? Yes. Was there enough risk before where this should be something fans are prepared to handle. Yes. Football is a dangerous sport with or without Covid.
So losing a potential Franchise QB, one of the players that is hardest to fine because we forced a season in a Pandemic doesn’t potential piss you off.
Blowing out a knee can happen and is a risk is taken every time a player plays. It is not however preventable. COVID is if you take the right precautions.
Having 50+ people gather together at anytime right now is a risk that does not need to be taken even in a state that has the spread managed. It’s just asking for an outbreak.
I like the core of our players and would absolutely hate to see someone (or anyone) no longer be able to play at a high level because they got COVID being around other players.
But the thing with football is it’s a dangerous game, if you’re not prepared as a fan that your favorite player can end their career on any given play, you’re fooling yourself.
Terrell Thomas, Steve Smith and David Wilson to name a few had injuries and in the blink of an eye were either gone or not themselves. I don’t even want to bring up Jason Seahorn.
Does the Covid thing add another layer of risk? Yes. Was there enough risk before where this should be something fans are prepared to handle. Yes. Football is a dangerous sport with or without Covid.
So losing a potential Franchise QB, one of the players that is hardest to fine because we forced a season in a Pandemic doesn’t potential piss you off.
Blowing out a knee can happen and is a risk is taken every time a player plays. It is not however preventable. COVID is if you take the right precautions.
Having 50+ people gather together at anytime right now is a risk that does not need to be taken even in a state that has the spread managed. It’s just asking for an outbreak.
I like the core of our players and would absolutely hate to see someone (or anyone) no longer be able to play at a high level because they got COVID being around other players.
IMO playing with COVID risks is closer to forcing a game in a hurricane or in a lightning storm than the knee injury risk.
Until you can catch a torn ACL from sitting in the same meeting room, or have to be quarantined for a week because of it, these comparisons are a little incomplete.
In the off-season. No way to know who would get it if there's a season vs not.
At this point, I’m mostly tuning into the site to read the site owner’s increasingly wacky and dug-in analyses on covid issues. Yes, playing group contact sports and traveling with groups of 60 or 70 plus to play other groups of strangers (and interacting with all of the people tangentially related to this travel) from different geographic locations is probably safer. No more risky than the grocery store. Good thinkin’!
This is a good point. One could argue they might be safer in the controlled environment.
It's going to be a crap, botched, incomplete season at *best*...
...right off the bat, some key players are going to sit it out, no preseason so the first few games are going to be a mess, there will be more injuries because of the watered-down training camp, there will be in-season quarantines that cause teams to suspend large chunks of their season.
I believe there's a strong likelihood it won't be possible to complete a season at all.
Keep in mind, this is summer. Football is in high-flu season.
Also eye-opening is the scandal at Colorado State - will any of that sort of unethical management happen in the NFL?
Given all of that - no, it isn't worth risking high value players. I'd like to see at least Jones and Barkley sit out the season.
I don't think you are thinking this through and/or really understanding me.
(1) These players are getting tested daily (an eventually every other day). They are also being FORCED BY CONTRACT to change their lifestyle outside of the football operations under penalty of losing $$$. In addition, if you saw the 13-minute video yesterday, the mask wearing and social distance requirements are being strictly enforced. I don't think it is outrageous to say that YOU are now more at risk than the player.
(2) I'm on record multiple times saying that football players are more likely to spread this (if they are infected) than any other athlete (outside of MMA).
was still here to chime in. He interacted with the players and often gave us the viewpoint from the non star players talking about them as people rather than assets.
The fact that we still don’t know all the long term effects
I don't think you are thinking this through and/or really understanding me.
(1) These players are getting tested daily (an eventually every other day). They are also being FORCED BY CONTRACT to change their lifestyle outside of the football operations under penalty of losing $$$. In addition, if you saw the 13-minute video yesterday, the mask wearing and social distance requirements are being strictly enforced. I don't think it is outrageous to say that YOU are now more at risk than the player.
(2) I'm on record multiple times saying that football players are more likely to spread this (if they are infected) than any other athlete (outside of MMA).
So what am I saying that you find "wacky'?
I’ll send a response later (after I drag my way through these interminable zoom meetings). Big fan of BBI, a big part of my daily routine for what, 15 years? Progressively more bummed out about your dialogue and reliably one-sided dialogues on covid issues though — which is strongly impacting my feelings about the site. Not that anyone is going to miss my boring, rarely read golf and food posts anyway lol. Anywho, will try to do some sparring later, and thanks for years and years of great football coverage.
was still here to chime in. He interacted with the players and often gave us the viewpoint from the non star players talking about them as people rather than assets.
Al, If you want I can write 7 paragraphs of flowery stuff for gold old nostalgia:)
followed all sports on this. Are there any examples of any athletes suffering permanent damage? I don't recall seeing any.
There's a 27 year old pitcher for Boston who got it, recovered, but still has heart inflammation. Boston won't pass his physical and won't let him return.
followed all sports on this. Are there any examples of any athletes suffering permanent damage? I don't recall seeing any.
There's a 27 year old pitcher for Boston who got it, recovered, but still has heart inflammation. Boston won't pass his physical and won't let him return.
Nick Cordero was a 41 year old Broadway Actor/Dancer, very fit. He was hospitalized for 3 months.
After he was initially sedated in the ICU for 18 days, his leg was amputated. He also went into septic shock, had a lung infection and had a temporary pacemaker put in. He was slated for a double lung transplant when he passed away.
Sure, most recover. Some don't even get hit with harsh symptoms. But for some people, it's a death sentence, for others it leaves a lifetime of issues to deal with.
A close friend of mine - 51, in decent health wound up with a scarred lung after a 2-week bout with it. He has no idea how he caught it, was taking all the precautions, both he and his wife teleworking 100%.
My family, we're hunkered down and being extremely conservative with our approach. Just brought in a load of groceries - we sanitize every item before it comes in the house.
Can't wait for the day it's over, but I don't think that's for a long time.
There are plenty of everyday people who are essential employees who are risking their health. Some of these people are dying.
So comparatively speaking, a football player not returning to form, that's pretty low on the priority list. At least athletes have the option of making a decision to opt out (and still get paid).
Some essential employees don't have that option and need to work to support their families.
There are plenty of everyday people who are essential employees who are risking their health. Some of these people are dying.
So comparatively speaking, a football player not returning to form, that's pretty low on the priority list. At least athletes have the option of making a decision to opt out (and still get paid).
Some essential employees don't have that option and need to work to support their families.
There is absolutely no need for anyone that plays a professional sport to risk their entire careers to play a sport in a pandemic. Especially in a situation where they are more at risk because of the number of people they have to be in close quarters too.
On top of that sports is simply entertainment. We absolutely don’t need it.
The essential works “should” be working on safer conditions. My mother-in-law Is an essential worker and his worked every week of the pandemic and is an at risk age bracket. Do I wish she didn’t have to do that, hell’s yes, but I’m glad that her employer does the things to keep her safe and took some of her feedback to make them safer.
There are plenty of everyday people who are essential employees who are risking their health. Some of these people are dying.
So comparatively speaking, a football player not returning to form, that's pretty low on the priority list. At least athletes have the option of making a decision to opt out (and still get paid).
Some essential employees don't have that option and need to work to support their families.
There is absolutely no need for anyone that plays a professional sport to risk their entire careers to play a sport in a pandemic. Especially in a situation where they are more at risk because of the number of people they have to be in close quarters to.
On top of that sports is simply entertainment. We absolutely don’t need it.
I dont follow the point about "need." Most have 5-7 year careers and want to get paid this year. I dont think any of us have the right to tell someone else they don't have a right to work and earn income. Its just not our place, in fact its very controlling and frightening that anyone would think that way. Especially when the data shows its low risk of a bad outcome. Risk well below "acceptable" risks such as CTE, permanent limps and back pain from knee and other injuries, etc.
On the OPs question - No one is reporting to camp for altruistic reasons - so why should fans feel guilty if someone has that rare bad outcome?? And they've all been given the opportunity to opt-out ... and still get paid anyway which was an incredibly nice gesture by the owners.
The reality is, generally speaking of course, the sports leagues arent creating more risks for these players than they've already willingly accepted in their personal lives. Some Rams player just had a 300 person house party, as just one crazy example. Eduardo Rodriguez, the scary story cited as Exhibit A above .... wasnt infected during a game or practice, it was before camp. Their risks arent "Zero" if they dont play, and so everyone needs to make their own personal choice on what's best for them.
Did someone mention losing our franchise QB due to long term
effects due to COVID? Uhh can someone point to me the scenario where he doesn't come back. I thought this thread alluded to some of the heart and lung damage that they are still hypothesizing can occur. Why would this affect you all that much at QB?
Then we have the other side of the coin. That is a very tough argument you are making that these guys are safer. Some will be, due to their ignorance I'm sure and they'd probably spend a lot of time partying. Many others that are worried and taking precautions will be much more in danger. And yes its danger, some of these guys are obese.
I seriously wonder if we are going to see a serious hospitalization or two among some of these lineman. There are going to be outbreaks on teams, even with these precautions. I'd imagine there is a time from picking up COVID before onset of it becoming obvious on test. It's not like you pick something up and it's immediately obvious on a test. I think there needs to be an onset of symptoms and time for your body to react to test positive. I could be wrong though, maybe Bill L can chime in.
effects due to COVID? Uhh can someone point to me the scenario where he doesn't come back. I thought this thread alluded to some of the heart and lung damage that they are still hypothesizing can occur. Why would this affect you all that much at QB?
Then we have the other side of the coin. That is a very tough argument you are making that these guys are safer. Some will be, due to their ignorance I'm sure and they'd probably spend a lot of time partying. Many others that are worried and taking precautions will be much more in danger. And yes its danger, some of these guys are obese.
I seriously wonder if we are going to see a serious hospitalization or two among some of these lineman. There are going to be outbreaks on teams, even with these precautions. I'd imagine there is a time from picking up COVID before onset of it becoming obvious on test. It's not like you pick something up and it's immediately obvious on a test. I think there needs to be an onset of symptoms and time for your body to react to test positive. I could be wrong though, maybe Bill L can chime in.
If you can’t breathe you can’t play qb. I’m also fairly certain if you have a serious heart condition you shouldn’t play football either.
But the thing with football is it’s a dangerous game, if you’re not prepared as a fan that your favorite player can end their career on any given play, you’re fooling yourself.
Terrell Thomas, Steve Smith and David Wilson to name a few had injuries and in the blink of an eye were either gone or not themselves. I don’t even want to bring up Jason Seahorn.
Does the Covid thing add another layer of risk? Yes. Was there enough risk before where this should be something fans are prepared to handle. Yes. Football is a dangerous sport with or without Covid.
So losing a potential Franchise QB, one of the players that is hardest to fine because we forced a season in a Pandemic doesn’t potential piss you off.
Blowing out a knee can happen and is a risk is taken every time a player plays. It is not however preventable. COVID is if you take the right precautions.
Having 50+ people gather together at anytime right now is a risk that does not need to be taken even in a state that has the spread managed. It’s just asking for an outbreak.
I like the core of our players and would absolutely hate to see someone (or anyone) no longer be able to play at a high level because they got COVID being around other players.
These guys are tested constantly and multiple safety precautions are taken. The other half is accountability on their end to not do stupid things (like go to a strip club after a game Marlins). I’d hate to see any player get hurt or sick but that doesn’t change that there is always a risk, specifically one they know when they show up to work.
There are plenty of everyday people who are essential employees who are risking their health. Some of these people are dying.
So comparatively speaking, a football player not returning to form, that's pretty low on the priority list. At least athletes have the option of making a decision to opt out (and still get paid).
Some essential employees don't have that option and need to work to support their families.
There is absolutely no need for anyone that plays a professional sport to risk their entire careers to play a sport in a pandemic. Especially in a situation where they are more at risk because of the number of people they have to be in close quarters too.
On top of that sports is simply entertainment. We absolutely don’t need it.
The essential works “should” be working on safer conditions. My mother-in-law Is an essential worker and his worked every week of the pandemic and is an at risk age bracket. Do I wish she didn’t have to do that, hell’s yes, but I’m glad that her employer does the things to keep her safe and took some of her feedback to make them safer.
I kind of agree with the next post down that if they are comfortable with the risks, I am not going to have too much heartburn over it if they get injured. Their choice, their consequences. It would be a different scenario if they were forced to play.
On your last point, the protocols the NFL is implementing are hopefully making it safer for the players to do their jobs. I think the NFL is taking notes on some of the lessons learned from the MLB, NBA, NHL restarts.
The problem isn't the environment insomuch as the sport itself. Look how it's spreading in MLB - the most minimal contact major sport. NFL linemen literally wrestle, sweat, breathe heavily, yell and spit all over one another on every single play. If one lineman has it, 100% certainty both lines will have it by game's end.
It is believed, though no one can know for sure i suppose, that it is spreading on baseball teams because of off-the-field activity and disregard for social distancing and masking guidelines. Manfred said "the players have to be better" this week - he could of course be spinning things for his benefit, but based on the stories of Marlins at bars and strip clubs and Cardinals gambling and partying in Minneapolis... I'm inclined to believe him.
Scientists a lot more brilliant than me developed helmets that is supposed to help reduce transmission on the field... we'll see... the far bigger risk to the NFL this year is Rams and other players throwing 300 person parties to 'blow off steam' during the week, than what happens on the field, IMO
Blowing out a knee can happen and is a risk is taken every time a player plays. It is not however preventable. COVID is if you take the right precautions.
Interesting logic.
Covid is preventable .... if they dont play this season.
In contrast, blowing out a knee is not preventable (of course... it is .... if you dont play this season)
Sterling Shepard immediately comes to mind. He's one more hit to the head to probably being done.
Sterling Shepard is absolutely someone who should consider punting on the season. He's a hit from retirement, no use taking that hit in a season like this.
and playing then staying home, they are being tested every day and soon every other day, guys who have no idea they have it would then know they have it and stay away from family members..
Whether you play or not you are still living your normal life and in theory anyone on the field doesnt have it
The whole thing is a risk - just because there's still a lot we don't seem to know about the after-effects of the virus. It seems that most folks will recover fully without residual effects. But, we have players like Eduardo Rodriguez, who was mentioned by a few people earlier in the thread - with a residual heart issue. He's expected to recover fully, but it's enough of a problem that it has ended his 2020 season.
Luis Cessa (NYY reliever) said he felt like he was having a little trouble breathing when he first started throwing bullpens again after recovering. He says he's gotten back to normal or is getting there since, but again... there's just a lot we don't know and won't know for some time.
I personally don't know if the NFL season makes it through. I just think the nature of the sport is such that it'll be very hard to contain spread once it begins. The initial intake numbers look good - surprisingly good, actually. But, there's no guarantee it holds.
I think the odds of a player winding up suffering career-altering effects from COVID are almost surely very, very low. Low enough that I think I'd be comfortable allowing them to play the season. Again, I just think it's going to be tough to make work.
MLB actually had zero new player cases today and they're doing travel unlike NBA/NHL where they're bubbled in a hub city/cities. So, I think if players follow protocol and the league has its ducks in a row, it can work and I am not personally worried about serious long-term effects from the virus in the players - but, obviously those aren't the only people who are at risk.
There will be other personnel around teams. For someone like Dave Gettleman to get the virus could be really dangerous, obviously. So, it's tricky. I know Dave won't be traveling with the team and it's a random example, but there are going to be other older folks who might be more at risk who will be involved in certain team/stadium tasks.
I think just with the nature of football being what it is, there's already so much inherent risk. It would be hard for me to say I am okay watching football in a normal year where a young man can be forever changed if he takes a hit in the wrong spot - which we've seen in this league several times over - but turn around and say that I am not okay with players taking on the risk of COVID. That just wouldn't be consistent logic.
I don't think you are thinking this through and/or really understanding me.
(1) These players are getting tested daily (an eventually every other day). They are also being FORCED BY CONTRACT to change their lifestyle outside of the football operations under penalty of losing $$$. In addition, if you saw the 13-minute video yesterday, the mask wearing and social distance requirements are being strictly enforced. I don't think it is outrageous to say that YOU are now more at risk than the player.
(2) I'm on record multiple times saying that football players are more likely to spread this (if they are infected) than any other athlete (outside of MMA).
So what am I saying that you find "wacky'?
I’ll send a response later (after I drag my way through these interminable zoom meetings). Big fan of BBI, a big part of my daily routine for what, 15 years? Progressively more bummed out about your dialogue and reliably one-sided dialogues on covid issues though — which is strongly impacting my feelings about the site. Not that anyone is going to miss my boring, rarely read golf and food posts anyway lol. Anywho, will try to do some sparring later, and thanks for years and years of great football coverage.
These are odd posts. You are on record for months here Earlier in the year of being very dismissive of this pandemic. Nothing to worry about type posts. Eric hasn’t said anything in this thread at least that was remotely ‘fake news’ — not sure if there has been stuff in other threads ...
Yeah, it would suck for us as Giants fans, but I'm worried about that man's long term health.
+1. New father. He should rethink his career. I know if I’m him I’d retire. Looks at keuchlys concussion history and then take a look at sterling. Very very similar
RE: Did someone mention losing our franchise QB due to long term
effects due to COVID? Uhh can someone point to me the scenario where he doesn't come back. I thought this thread alluded to some of the heart and lung damage that they are still hypothesizing can occur. Why would this affect you all that much at QB?
It's a good point really - I mean, what pussy can't man up and play NFL seasons with a little heart and lung damage? Even a transplanted lung or 2 - I mean, you still can breathe, right? Same goes for the amputations - fingers - I mean, you have 2 hands, right - and the legs - they do incredible things with prosthetics. Think of how cool it would be so see legs go flying in the air when sacked? I was definitely underthinking it - thanks for setting us straight.
People are really setting up total strawmen that don't exist here.
effects due to COVID? Uhh can someone point to me the scenario where he doesn't come back. I thought this thread alluded to some of the heart and lung damage that they are still hypothesizing can occur. Why would this affect you all that much at QB?
It's a good point really - I mean, what pussy can't man up and play NFL seasons with a little heart and lung damage? Even a transplanted lung or 2 - I mean, you still can breathe, right? Same goes for the amputations - fingers - I mean, you have 2 hands, right - and the legs - they do incredible things with prosthetics. Think of how cool it would be so see legs go flying in the air when sacked? I was definitely underthinking it - thanks for setting us straight.
Can you share the data with us -- % transplanted lungs or % amputations... as % of total Covid infections and % of total population base in the age bracket 19-40?
Thanks in advance.
Otherwise this was a lot of diarrhea of the mouth...
You didnt answer the question, just more fear mongering based on mostly senior citizen data. Not worth discussion, you havent been doing your homework.
there are 330 million Americans and 3 million per year die from various causes. All tragic. The show will and should go on for the younger, healthier population - your temper tantrums aside.
there are 330 million Americans and 3 million per year die from various causes. All tragic. The show will and should go on for the younger, healthier population - your temper tantrums aside.
the #1 killer of Americans right now is CoVid. I'm not willing to *sacrifice* anyone.
I find this line of thinking to be craven and disgusting. Young people spread it same as old.
there are 330 million Americans and 3 million per year die from various causes. All tragic. The show will and should go on for the younger, healthier population - your temper tantrums aside.
the #1 killer of Americans right now is CoVid. I'm not willing to *sacrifice* anyone.
I find this line of thinking to be craven and disgusting. Young people spread it same as old.
How many kids have died from Covid under 16? How many kids are being killed in our cities from senseless shootings?
I do not understand all this arguing over the players. They are making a choice to play or not play and if they choose not they are still being paid more than the vast majority of people in the workforce. Any other profession being given this choice?
RE: People are really setting up total strawmen that don't exist here.
choice, no? Besides covid = career ending? Reaching
a little IMO.
You don't know that.
A few months ago, the most common thinking on Covid was that it was a respiratory disease. Now we know that it's vascular with strong respiratory symptoms.
This virus is not even a year old yet. Imagine what else we'll know with the benefit of time.
there are 330 million Americans and 3 million per year die from various causes. All tragic. The show will and should go on for the younger, healthier population - your temper tantrums aside.
the #1 killer of Americans right now is CoVid. I'm not willing to *sacrifice* anyone.
That is absolutely false, and its not even close. I respect a lot of people's opinions on this board about taking a cautious approach - Bill L, kicker, CiP and many others - you dont fall in that camp. You're completely paranoid and devoid of facts and data in your takes.
there are 330 million Americans and 3 million per year die from various causes. All tragic. The show will and should go on for the younger, healthier population - your temper tantrums aside.
the #1 killer of Americans right now is CoVid. I'm not willing to *sacrifice* anyone.
That is absolutely false, and its not even close. I respect a lot of people's opinions on this board about taking a cautious approach - Bill L, kicker, CiP and many others - you dont fall in that camp. You're completely paranoid and devoid of facts and data in your takes.
160,000 deaths is current and accurate. Estimates have CoVid as a top-3 leading cause of death, without considering excess mortality.
I have a household with hospital staff in it, family and friends are healthcare professionals. None of them take it as lightly as your reckless stance.
A lot of us (myself included) talked about how nice Memorial Day weekend would be with the pandemic behind us. That was 5 months ago and we are still mostly in the same position now.
Why not try to have a football season? The NBA/NHL has been going very well. MLB has gone well aside of 2 outbreaks.
I have a household with hospital staff in it, family and friends are healthcare professionals. None of them take it as lightly as your reckless stance.
You continuously look to expand the discussion beyond the scope of this thread and what’s allowed on BBI. Your deferral to authority in the ‘Medical’ household is noted - I know doctors too amazing I know! - and one could easily argue all professional sports leagues have reopened this year so that means they’re all ‘reckless’ in your view... moving on
You remain way way to high level on this subject matter. Of course it’s a serious matter especially for those at higher age and with underlying health issues. We all knew that. Anything else from 5 Months ago to bring to the debate?
Let’s get back on topic - please support your stance that Daniel Jones will need not one but two lung transplants if he plays this season. Case studies, age based metrics, cold hard statistics, anything other than your gutt?
Separately, glad upon further your review covid went from the biggest killer in the US to after called on that ... it might be in the top 3. We’re making progress on your bullshit.
In the off-season. No way to know who would get it if there's a season vs not.
This is a good point. One could argue they might be safer in the controlled environment.
The problem isn't the environment insomuch as the sport itself. Look how it's spreading in MLB - the most minimal contact major sport. NFL linemen literally wrestle, sweat, breathe heavily, yell and spit all over one another on every single play. If one lineman has it, 100% certainty both lines will have it by game's end.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. All the books we read and movies we saw about Pandemic's - I don't recall a single story that had this *damn the torpedoes* approach.
2020 sucks.
Think back on those movies. Maybe you’re thinking of 28 days later, when in a month a virus turned most of a city into zombies. Maybe you’re thinking of Contagion, where 2.5mm people in the USA die from the disease, and 25% of people who catch it die, regardless of age, in a matter of days. Or maybe it is some other movie.
Did any of those pandemic movies terrify you with a pandemic that killed just 4,000 total people under 45 over six months, and which at least 99.7% of people survive and which appears to have already started to burn out in way more than half the country?
I could get on an even higher horse than yours and ask why you think it’s acceptable to play during any flu season. Yes, COVID is more deadly than flu, but flu is still deadly. So, how many people are you willing to risk during the next ordinary flu season? Can you name names?
This ignores the fact that what, 30% of NYC and now 20% of even places like Arizona are testing positive for antibodies. And those numbers are 1) undercounting Bc of T cell rather than antibody immunity and 2) only going up every day. So the idea that a Cardinals player (or anyone) has a real method of avoiding the disease is ludicrous. Yes, you can lock yourself at home like my 94yo grandmother does, but if you are leaving your house much at all you are at roughly the same risk of contracting covid at some point by year end as by playing football.
Clemson star Xavier Thomas will miss most of the 2020 season after a battle with COVID-19, strep throat.
Dabo Swinney: "He’s just nowhere near where he needs to be to play football."
Story is now updated, including this quote from Dabo Swinney: "He had a hard time when he got back with just his breathing... that’s a combination of COVID, his strep throat, being a little heavy."
I could get on an even higher horse than yours and ask why you think it’s acceptable to play during any flu season. Yes, COVID is more deadly than flu, but flu is still deadly. So, how many people are you willing to risk during the next ordinary flu season? Can you name names?
This ignores the fact that what, 30% of NYC and now 20% of even places like Arizona are testing positive for antibodies. And those numbers are 1) undercounting Bc of T cell rather than antibody immunity and 2) only going up every day. So the idea that a Cardinals player (or anyone) has a real method of avoiding the disease is ludicrous. Yes, you can lock yourself at home like my 94yo grandmother does, but if you are leaving your house much at all you are at roughly the same risk of contracting covid at some point by year end as by playing football.
I'd rebut but I feel like it would be too much effort to explain to you what the letter T means, much less a T cell.
I could get on an even higher horse than yours and ask why you think it’s acceptable to play during any flu season. Yes, COVID is more deadly than flu, but flu is still deadly. So, how many people are you willing to risk during the next ordinary flu season? Can you name names?
This ignores the fact that what, 30% of NYC and now 20% of even places like Arizona are testing positive for antibodies. And those numbers are 1) undercounting Bc of T cell rather than antibody immunity and 2) only going up every day. So the idea that a Cardinals player (or anyone) has a real method of avoiding the disease is ludicrous. Yes, you can lock yourself at home like my 94yo grandmother does, but if you are leaving your house much at all you are at roughly the same risk of contracting covid at some point by year end as by playing football.
I'd rebut but I feel like it would be too much effort to explain to you what the letter T means, much less a T cell.
Ooof. :)
why would a specific letter such as T have meaning?
I could get on an even higher horse than yours and ask why you think it’s acceptable to play during any flu season. Yes, COVID is more deadly than flu, but flu is still deadly. So, how many people are you willing to risk during the next ordinary flu season? Can you name names?
This ignores the fact that what, 30% of NYC and now 20% of even places like Arizona are testing positive for antibodies. And those numbers are 1) undercounting Bc of T cell rather than antibody immunity and 2) only going up every day. So the idea that a Cardinals player (or anyone) has a real method of avoiding the disease is ludicrous. Yes, you can lock yourself at home like my 94yo grandmother does, but if you are leaving your house much at all you are at roughly the same risk of contracting covid at some point by year end as by playing football.
I'd rebut but I feel like it would be too much effort to explain to you what the letter T means, much less a T cell.
Oh dear, how will I ever recover from such a sick burn.
I’ll ask it directly: people die from flu. Was it immoral for MJ to play in the “flu game”?
For people of NFL age, flu probably kills at about the same rate as covid, but let’s say it’s 3x higher. Have you calibrated your risk threshold so precisely that covid (1 in 3k dies let’s say) breaches it but flu (1 in 10k let’s say) does not? How did you get there?
And one step further: Why should pro football players be more scared of covid that CTE this year? Which do you think will impair more NFL players long term existence if they played this year? Hint: it’s CTE by multiple orders of magnitude.
...most of them, like most of us - are more worried about spreading it to those who are at risk.
We're supposed to all be in this together. We look at the rest of the industrialized world, we look right over the border at Canada and see how collectively the disease can be brought under control and how economies can recover.
And we refuse to do it. Because as I've been told "The show will and should go on for the younger, healthier population".
Is it really a surprise that a novel virus that seems
to have significant morbidity aspects (that appear to be growing) would cause more consternation among health experts and regular people than an annual virus that we seem to have a decent grasp on, for short- and long-term impacts.?
...most of them, like most of us - are more worried about spreading it to those who are at risk.
We're supposed to all be in this together. We look at the rest of the industrialized world, we look right over the border at Canada and see how collectively the disease can be brought under control and how economies can recover.
And we refuse to do it. Because as I've been told "The show will and should go on for the younger, healthier population".
I guess i missed the part where sports ARENT being played in other countries as you suggest we do here. I guess i missed the part where other countries are still in quarantine and under strict stay-at-home orders, where younger healthier people are not allowed to go to work and earn an income as you suggest football players do in this thread.
You want to suggest we all wear masks when out - I'm all for it, i do it myself.
You want to suggest players not spend time with their parents and grand parents during the season given they'll be at higher risk of spread for a few months - I agree
But instead you've come on here and your proposed solution is... no season, no income... and that if we play, Daniel Jones will likely require two lung transplants.... its just crazy embellishment and thinking you get to decide who gets to work and make money and who doesnt is just incredibly controlling.
RE: Is it really a surprise that a novel virus that seems
to have significant morbidity aspects (that appear to be growing) would cause more consternation among health experts and regular people than an annual virus that we seem to have a decent grasp on, for short- and long-term impacts.?
A novel virus:
with a mortality rate of 0% in those age 24 and younger.
A virus that is completely asymptomatic 80% of the time.
A virus that affects those with comorbidities almost exclusively (yes the 41 year-old actor smoked).
The fans and staff are at infinitely more risk than the players. If they don't go home to someone immunocompromised (think Nate Solder) there is very little risk.
Ask yourself why all we hear about now is "cases".
Also, if you think this is bad, especially for my NY area friends that hear "Houston is sooooo bad" just go to indeed.com and see who's hiring nurses. Houston isn't.
Hospitals are furloughing nurses, and staffs are twiddling their thumbs.
that if your big "insight" is to link into a shitty Google search, you would be able to do something more than look at Indeed.com and see that, in the recent past, Houston hospitals have contracted with travelling nurses to provide additional ICU care, since hospital nursing is different than family nursing.
it is unlikely that we have the political, economic, or societal will to reimpose significant lockdowns that we have seen. This is exacerbated by this being a significant election year.
At this point, a major goal should be managing caseloads currently, doing what we can at low cost (mask mandates, encouraging social distancing, limiting large gatherings), and preparing for the potential for a nasty fall/winter.
Unfortunately, the biggest issue coming up will be staff burnout in healthcare facilities, and how we manage that.
RE: RE: Players aren't worried about their own health...
Quote:
But instead you've come on here and your proposed solution is... no season, no income... and that if we play, Daniel Jones will likely require two lung transplants.... its just crazy embellishment and thinking you get to decide who gets to work and make money and who doesnt is just incredibly controlling.
Interesting interpretation of *my solution*.
My opinion is that it's folly to do what the NFL is trying to for a variety of obvious reasons - I'm fine with regional opening on a phased approach nationwide for ALL jobs. The Northeast is currently in good shape, most of the rest of the country is not. Yes, training camp and games in the Meadowlands are low CoVid risk TODAY.
The NFL is an enormous enterprise made up of heavily staffed franchises that travel to and from regions all over the country. EXACTLY what you DO NOT need during a PANDEMIC.
You want to keep football in safe regions, fine. NFL (and MLB) IMO should just make it an exhibition season since there is no way to tell how many games will actually be completed and which teams will make it through a CoVid impacted season. Teams have already lost players who are opting out. MLB teams already cancelling stretches of schedule. 56 NFL players have contracted CoVid to date, and we haven't played a single snap.
*I* don't get to determine who gets to work or play and who doesn't.
CoVid does.
RE: RE: Is it really a surprise that a novel virus that seems
Also, if you think this is bad, especially for my NY area friends that hear "Houston is sooooo bad" just go to indeed.com and see who's hiring nurses. Houston isn't.
Hospitals are furloughing nurses, and staffs are twiddling their thumbs.
Google Search Mixed Messages, LOL - ( New Window )
FYI - in heavily impacted area's, hospital and healthcare layoffs and furloughs are common because MUCH of what healthcare does is SHUT DOWN. No elective surgery, in-house offices, rehab, etc are shut down. The Hospital's focus becomes almost ENTIRELY CoVid and ER.
So what you're seeing in Houston is actually status quo, at least in hard hit area's. Here, upstate NY hospitals have returned to their normal pace for the most part but back in April were experiencing similar functional shutdowns and layoffs.
to have significant morbidity aspects (that appear to be growing) would cause more consternation among health experts and regular people than an annual virus that we seem to have a decent grasp on, for short- and long-term impacts.?
A novel virus:
with a mortality rate of 0% in those age 24 and younger.
A virus that is completely asymptomatic 80% of the time.
A virus that affects those with comorbidities almost exclusively (yes the 41 year-old actor smoked).
The fans and staff are at infinitely more risk than the players. If they don't go home to someone immunocompromised (think Nate Solder) there is very little risk.
Ask yourself why all we hear about now is "cases".
Also, if you think this is bad, especially for my NY area friends that hear "Houston is sooooo bad" just go to indeed.com and see who's hiring nurses. Houston isn't.
Hospitals are furloughing nurses, and staffs are twiddling their thumbs.
Google Search Mixed Messages, LOL - ( New Window )
I live in Tampa, which is 100% a hot spot and that will be easily verifiable with an internet search.
Hospitals are furloughing staff because outpatient and elective surgeries are postponed so resources can be shifted to Covid cases. It's not because things Actually Wonderful and there's no more need for medical professionals. The ways you're looking at this is off.
And some of the people being furloughed are medically high risk so they're being sent home to avoid infection.
Since outpatient surgeries were postponed, she is twiddling her thumbs. Her choices were either agree to screen and test COVID patients because they're understaffed, or be furloughed. As a type 1 diabetic, she's high-risk. So she took a furlough.
When people are still comparing this to the flu, I worry I am going to injure myself rolling my eyes.
It's not the fucking flu.
What an old boring statement.
Pal, nothing is something else. It's like if someone saw a dessert menu with a 600 calorie slice of cake and a 400 calorie slice of pie and said "I think the cake has more calories than the pie, but I know my diet has room for a slice of pie every now and again, so I wonder if cake is okay too." But Neil thinks its really cool to swing in all the time and scream "BRO, CAKE IS NOT PIE."
Yes, obviously, there would be no point in comparing two things if they were the same. The reason we compare it is because they are comparable. So of course you can compare Covid to Flu - it is probably about half an order of magnitude more deadly (3-4x) than a bad flu season.
You can actually also compare it to the common cold, which is also caused by coronaviruses. You know how much you can compare it? So much that your existing immune system is likely boosted by the recency of a coronavirus cold you may have contracted.
When people are still comparing this to the flu, I worry I am going to injure myself rolling my eyes.
It's not the fucking flu.
What an old boring statement.
Pal, nothing is something else. It's like if someone saw a dessert menu with a 600 calorie slice of cake and a 400 calorie slice of pie and said "I think the cake has more calories than the pie, but I know my diet has room for a slice of pie every now and again, so I wonder if cake is okay too." But Neil thinks its really cool to swing in all the time and scream "BRO, CAKE IS NOT PIE."
Yes, obviously, there would be no point in comparing two things if they were the same. The reason we compare it is because they are comparable. So of course you can compare Covid to Flu - it is probably about half an order of magnitude more deadly (3-4x) than a bad flu season.
You can actually also compare it to the common cold, which is also caused by coronaviruses. You know how much you can compare it? So much that your existing immune system is likely boosted by the recency of a coronavirus cold you may have contracted.
to have significant morbidity aspects (that appear to be growing) would cause more consternation among health experts and regular people than an annual virus that we seem to have a decent grasp on, for short- and long-term impacts.?
A novel virus:
with a mortality rate of 0% in those age 24 and younger.
A virus that is completely asymptomatic 80% of the time.
A virus that affects those with comorbidities almost exclusively (yes the 41 year-old actor smoked).
The fans and staff are at infinitely more risk than the players. If they don't go home to someone immunocompromised (think Nate Solder) there is very little risk.
Ask yourself why all we hear about now is "cases".
Also, if you think this is bad, especially for my NY area friends that hear "Houston is sooooo bad" just go to indeed.com and see who's hiring nurses. Houston isn't.
Hospitals are furloughing nurses, and staffs are twiddling their thumbs.
Google Search Mixed Messages, LOL - ( New Window )
I live in Tampa, which is 100% a hot spot and that will be easily verifiable with an internet search.
Hospitals are furloughing staff because outpatient and elective surgeries are postponed so resources can be shifted to Covid cases. It's not because things Actually Wonderful and there's no more need for medical professionals. The ways you're looking at this is off.
And some of the people being furloughed are medically high risk so they're being sent home to avoid infection.
of course I support your wife's decision to protect herself, but I think your information about the problem in the medical system is just incorrect.
Tampa is in Hillsborough County. At the link below you can see the situation. As of today, in Hillsborough county covid patients occupy 394 hospital beds, non-covid patients occupy 2,907 beds, and 548 beds are empty. That's ~85% capacity utilization, with covid patients making up just a tick over 10% of all patients, and this is while the pandemic is clearly on the down slope in Florida. This is a hospital operating below normal capacity utilization to solve a resource problem it doesn't have.
And this is in one of the "hottest" spots in the country. Link - ( New Window )
Also, I'm not sure where you're getting 3-4x more deadly from. Try 10x. It's closer to that.
We have a flu vaccine each year and approved treatments for the flu. We have neither for COVID as it stands right now.
Quote:
A column Trusted Sourceprinted in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) on May 14 noted that flu deaths and COVID-19 deaths are not even reported the same way.
The column written by Dr. Jeremy Samuel Faust, MS, an emergency medicine specialist affiliated with Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Massachusetts, states that flu deaths are estimated while COVID-19 deaths are confirmed cases.
He notes that during mid-April the “counted deaths” for COVID-19 in the United States were around 15,000 per week. During a typical “peak week” for the flu, the “counted deaths” are about 750.
Faust concludes that COVID-19 deaths are actually anywhere from 10 times to 44 times the number of influenza fatalities.
If you're still comparing this to the flu, you lost the pack about 6 months ago. It has long been established that it's a worthless comparison because there are several key differences.
Sure, you could continue to force compare them - but it isn't serving much of a purpose.
It's all well and good to cite total hospital beds, and the fact that
Except, of course, the national average hospital bed utilization is between 49% (2019; differences between rural and urban) and 61% (2012). So, 85% is a significant increase.
And, of course, given that hospitals typically operate at the maximum number of beds per staffer (typically measured by RNs) during most times, this indicates the potential for significant staffing shortages (that we are seeing met by growing demand for travel nurses).
So, not sure why 85%, with ~10% being COVID patients, is a win.
When people are still comparing this to the flu, I worry I am going to injure myself rolling my eyes.
It's not the fucking flu.
What an old boring statement.
Pal, nothing is something else. It's like if someone saw a dessert menu with a 600 calorie slice of cake and a 400 calorie slice of pie and said "I think the cake has more calories than the pie, but I know my diet has room for a slice of pie every now and again, so I wonder if cake is okay too." But Neil thinks its really cool to swing in all the time and scream "BRO, CAKE IS NOT PIE."
Yes, obviously, there would be no point in comparing two things if they were the same. The reason we compare it is because they are comparable. So of course you can compare Covid to Flu - it is probably about half an order of magnitude more deadly (3-4x) than a bad flu season.
You can actually also compare it to the common cold, which is also caused by coronaviruses. You know how much you can compare it? So much that your existing immune system is likely boosted by the recency of a coronavirus cold you may have contracted.
"The reason we compare it is because they are comparable"
You lose me there. They're not.
Do better.
You can compare an elephant to a horse. "While both are mammals, the mature elephant is larger than the mature horse." Specifically, you can say "The median elephant weighs more than the median horse."
You can compare pancreatic cancer to colon cancer. "Pancreatic cancer is typically more deadly than colon cancer." Specifically, you can say "The 5-year survival rate of a patient with Stage 3 colon cancer exceeds that of Stage 3 pancreatic cancer."
What the hell does it mean to say you can't compare things? I can compare a banana to the Eiffel Tower. "A banana is much more delicious than the Eiffel Tower, and usually more yellow."
So obviously you can compare Covid to the flu. You can say "Covid is more deadly than even bad flus which have recently struck our population. The best evidence says it is roughly 3-5x more deadly."
People who say you can't compare them want to shut down debate and not be confronted with hypocrisy because they would never, for example, forbid their father from coming to visit his grandkids for 6+ monthsover a flu.
MAYBE you are among the very few people who have calibrated their opinions so precisely that you can affirmatively say "Yes, I would tell my grandfather to fly on a plane if a disease were circulating with a 1/1000 mortality rate, but I would tell him to definitely NOT fly on the plane if there were a disease circulating with a 4/1000 mortality rate."
If so, you are the exception, but the fact you pretend to not understand how to compare two things makes me feel that's not the case.
Again, if you want to compare the flu to COVID-19, you must
Also, I'm not sure where you're getting 3-4x more deadly from. Try 10x. It's closer to that.
We have a flu vaccine each year and approved treatments for the flu. We have neither for COVID as it stands right now.
Quote:
A column Trusted Sourceprinted in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) on May 14 noted that flu deaths and COVID-19 deaths are not even reported the same way.
The column written by Dr. Jeremy Samuel Faust, MS, an emergency medicine specialist affiliated with Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Massachusetts, states that flu deaths are estimated while COVID-19 deaths are confirmed cases.
He notes that during mid-April the “counted deaths” for COVID-19 in the United States were around 15,000 per week. During a typical “peak week” for the flu, the “counted deaths” are about 750.
Faust concludes that COVID-19 deaths are actually anywhere from 10 times to 44 times the number of influenza fatalities.
If you're still comparing this to the flu, you lost the pack about 6 months ago. It has long been established that it's a worthless comparison because there are several key differences.
Sure, you could continue to force compare them - but it isn't serving much of a purpose.
I'm sorry, when you say we have a treatment for the flu but not for covid (WRRRRRONG! remdesivir is an approved treatment getting excellent results), or that there could be up to 44x as many covid fatalities as flu fatalities (WRRRRRONG! as flu typically kills about 40-50k people a year, that would mean 2mm people had died of COVID as of May 14... NOPE!), aren't you... um.... COMPARING covid and the flu?
Also, I'm not sure where you're getting 3-4x more deadly from. Try 10x. It's closer to that.
We have a flu vaccine each year and approved treatments for the flu. We have neither for COVID as it stands right now.
Quote:
A column Trusted Sourceprinted in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) on May 14 noted that flu deaths and COVID-19 deaths are not even reported the same way.
The column written by Dr. Jeremy Samuel Faust, MS, an emergency medicine specialist affiliated with Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Massachusetts, states that flu deaths are estimated while COVID-19 deaths are confirmed cases.
He notes that during mid-April the “counted deaths” for COVID-19 in the United States were around 15,000 per week. During a typical “peak week” for the flu, the “counted deaths” are about 750.
Faust concludes that COVID-19 deaths are actually anywhere from 10 times to 44 times the number of influenza fatalities.
If you're still comparing this to the flu, you lost the pack about 6 months ago. It has long been established that it's a worthless comparison because there are several key differences.
Sure, you could continue to force compare them - but it isn't serving much of a purpose.
I'm sorry, when you say we have a treatment for the flu but not for covid (WRRRRRONG! remdesivir is an approved treatment getting excellent results), or that there could be up to 44x as many covid fatalities as flu fatalities (WRRRRRONG! as flu typically kills about 40-50k people a year, that would mean 2mm people had died of COVID as of May 14... NOPE!), aren't you... um.... COMPARING covid and the flu?
in the interest of being accurate, remdesivir is not "approved" but it is "authorized" and everyone in the medical community will tell you the results are excellent.
followed all sports on this. Are there any examples of any athletes suffering permanent damage? I don't recall seeing any.
I don't know that anyone can truly know the answer to that question at this point. Only time will give us the proper perspective to accurately answer that.
Remdesivir, while promising, has some issues. Notably related
to current way to treat (notably it's mainly delivered via IV, which is often farther in the progression of COVID than optimal, at least based on study results and Gilead announcements of unpublished findings); the cost; and the limited supply.
Also, I'm not sure where you're getting 3-4x more deadly from. Try 10x. It's closer to that.
We have a flu vaccine each year and approved treatments for the flu. We have neither for COVID as it stands right now.
Quote:
A column Trusted Sourceprinted in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) on May 14 noted that flu deaths and COVID-19 deaths are not even reported the same way.
The column written by Dr. Jeremy Samuel Faust, MS, an emergency medicine specialist affiliated with Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Massachusetts, states that flu deaths are estimated while COVID-19 deaths are confirmed cases.
He notes that during mid-April the “counted deaths” for COVID-19 in the United States were around 15,000 per week. During a typical “peak week” for the flu, the “counted deaths” are about 750.
Faust concludes that COVID-19 deaths are actually anywhere from 10 times to 44 times the number of influenza fatalities.
If you're still comparing this to the flu, you lost the pack about 6 months ago. It has long been established that it's a worthless comparison because there are several key differences.
Sure, you could continue to force compare them - but it isn't serving much of a purpose.
I'm sorry, when you say we have a treatment for the flu but not for covid (WRRRRRONG! remdesivir is an approved treatment getting excellent results), or that there could be up to 44x as many covid fatalities as flu fatalities (WRRRRRONG! as flu typically kills about 40-50k people a year, that would mean 2mm people had died of COVID as of May 14... NOPE!), aren't you... um.... COMPARING covid and the flu?
What was your prior handle? Your childish and irritating posting style seems familiar.
Anyway, you're off on Remdesivir having "excellent results" - the results have been promising in some cases. Not all. And the results are mixed in other instances. You also left out this key detail while you were blowing so much hot air into what you seemed to think was a "gotcha" clapback.
Quote:
Currently, Remdesivir is only available to hospitalized patients at certain institutions who have the medication available, or through a clinical trial. However, the results of these trials will not be available for months.
This is right on the CDC website.
Quote:
While remdesivir is an antiviral agent that is being explored as a treatment for COVID-19 and is available under an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA), there are currently no drugs or other therapeutics approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to prevent or treat COVID-19. Studies are in progress to learn more.
Comparing the flu and COVID is like comparing a QB to a DE. They're both football players, but other than that, they don't have a whole lot in common.
The flu is a respiratory virus. COVID is not the same. Some patients have developed blood clots in the veins and arteries of the lungs, heart, legs or brain and some children have developed MIS-C from COVID.
We have decades upon decades of flu data and research. We have so much less when it comes to this.
So again, compare them if you want to look for a way to diminish COVID and call it 'just a cold' or 'just the flu' - but when there are so many key differences and unknowns involved, it's an exercise in futility.
COVID should be treated like COVID as we continue to learn more and collect more data.
Also, the link on hospital beds isn't proving what you think it is. I noticed you also conveniently left out the part where 398 ICU beds were occupied with just 42 left available.
Wonder why...
Probably because it would have diminished your point.
Because we want to compare COVID with the flu, let's look beyond
mortality or hospital bed usage, since those are not actually correct indicators of the severity of the disease.
Let's quantify the healthcare cost differences in just one county in America: the one that was brought up.
I'm going to underestimate everything, but the "cost-savings" per day of an unfilled normal hospital bed is above $200, while for an unfilled ICU bed it is above $400. The average occupancy rate for ICU beds is normally around 68%. For regular hospital beds, its around 49%. I'm only going to focus on ICU bed fills.
So, these estimates are going to be much lower than they should be. I'm also going to assume that the average fills for hospital beds are all going to the flu (again, provides an underestimate). Using August 8th data.
So, the cost INCREASES per day during the pandemic for ICU's in one county are an additional $7,629 per day for COVID ICU beds; over the duration of the illness (in excess of the average ICU entry), this is $38,150 per illness per day.
Just over the past 2 weeks, the excess cost of COVID bed fills in one county is $534,095.
Hillsbrough is the 27th largest county population. Let's assume that these COVID costs are just found in Hillsbrough, and the larger counties ONLY, just over the past 2 weeks. You know what the economic cost of COVID is, over flu?
Over $14 million. In 2 weeks. Just in ICU beds. Just in 27 counties (over 3,000 in America).
Now, mind you, if you start extending the timeline of COVID, plus
place more realistic excess costs of COVID treatment (instead of $400 per day per ICU bed, it would be closer to 3-4x that), you are looking at 9 figure costs...
And that's mostly warm weather months with dramatic action being taken globally to mitigate. I mean, doesn't that argument become farcical right there?
1) This flu vs. COVID argument should have been over among time ago.
2) So much still unknown. So many theories and guesses have been debunked, proven wrong, etc. constantly. So, why or how anyone can say with confidence what the long term effects are or will be is beyond me.
3) Re #2: the answer can be different for every person.
4) I can tell you I had a mild case. But,the initial symptoms lingered for 4 weeks, not 2. And, now, after testing negative over 6 weeks ago, I still wake up every morning and have to think about how my breathing is. Think about that. How often do you think about your breathing? Now,think about an athlete who is used to going all out against equally fast, strong, and talented guys. Having that in the back of your mind is not good.
RE: seriously when did the flu kill 150-200k ppl in a span of ~5 months?
And that's mostly warm weather months with dramatic action being taken globally to mitigate. I mean, doesn't that argument become farcical right there?
It should!
But, for folks like we have in this thread, welp...
This is a good point. One could argue they might be safer in the controlled environment.
Quote:
In the off-season. No way to know who would get it if there's a season vs not.
This is a good point. One could argue they might be safer in the controlled environment.
not only this, and I haven't seen the NFL/NFLPA agreement, but some pro sports the players had to agree to adhere to very specific standards of protection and guidelines and if they breach any of these and it results in COVID they forfeit their pay.
So, I agree, they might be better off than the general population or if they were to opt out/cancel the season.
I think I read about a pitcher for the red sox being shutdown for the season with a heart issue related to covid.
Quote:
In the off-season. No way to know who would get it if there's a season vs not.
This is a good point. One could argue they might be safer in the controlled environment.
The problem isn't the environment insomuch as the sport itself. Look how it's spreading in MLB - the most minimal contact major sport. NFL linemen literally wrestle, sweat, breathe heavily, yell and spit all over one another on every single play. If one lineman has it, 100% certainty both lines will have it by game's end.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. All the books we read and movies we saw about Pandemic's - I don't recall a single story that had this *damn the torpedoes* approach.
2020 sucks.
Red Sox pitcher Eduardo Rodriguez has a heart issue (myocarditis)
As for your original question, I dont think it matters what level the player is. It will be very sad. But at the same time, life needs to start happening again. Everyone needs to start getting back to work and take as much precautions as needed. While football isn't essential, this is a business. If they dont play this season the financial impact will be felt for a long time and the players may not have a league to come back to. They built in an opt out for the players and while a guy like OBJ complains he still wants his check.
Many people are out of work but would go back in a heartbeat because they need money. Players need money.
I'm not sure I can answer a question about permanency in a disease that's 6 months old.
I know of at least one player on the Red Sox who has myocarditis from COVID-19 and is out for the year. What will happen beyond that is anyone's guess.
Quote:
In comment 14944214 YAJ2112 said:
Quote:
In the off-season. No way to know who would get it if there's a season vs not.
This is a good point. One could argue they might be safer in the controlled environment.
The problem isn't the environment insomuch as the sport itself. Look how it's spreading in MLB - the most minimal contact major sport. NFL linemen literally wrestle, sweat, breathe heavily, yell and spit all over one another on every single play. If one lineman has it, 100% certainty both lines will have it by game's end.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. All the books we read and movies we saw about Pandemic's - I don't recall a single story that had this *damn the torpedoes* approach.
2020 sucks.
Maybe because none of the would-be authors were around to write one?
As for your original question, I dont think it matters what level the player is. It will be very sad. But at the same time, life needs to start happening again. Everyone needs to start getting back to work and take as much precautions as needed. While football isn't essential, this is a business. If they dont play this season the financial impact will be felt for a long time and the players may not have a league to come back to. They built in an opt out for the players and while a guy like OBJ complains he still wants his check.
Many people are out of work but would go back in a heartbeat because they need money. Players need money.
That's not even close to true. Novel means exactly what it says.
Terrell Thomas, Steve Smith and David Wilson to name a few had injuries and in the blink of an eye were either gone or not themselves. I don’t even want to bring up Jason Seahorn.
Does the Covid thing add another layer of risk? Yes. Was there enough risk before where this should be something fans are prepared to handle. Yes. Football is a dangerous sport with or without Covid.
At the same time, pandemic books/movies usually don't have the general population shopping at the grocery store, dropping their kids off at day care, or getting hair cuts either. Those people are all dead in the books/movies.
What's going to be fascinating to watch is if the NFL actually cancels games like MLB. That would rapidly turn the season into a joke.
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
With roughly 2,600 players currently on rosters, that’s about 3.5% that have landed on the Reserve/COVID-19 list for any reason (positive test/close contact). It’s early, but the numbers are lower than many expected during initial screening.
Some COVID-19 context, from @NFLResearch:
— 90 players have been on the reserve list.
— 35 players have been activated from the list, with Jaguars CB Parry Nickerson being the latest.
— 67 of the 90 players put on the Reserve/COVID-19 list are 25 years old or younger.
Terrell Thomas, Steve Smith and David Wilson to name a few had injuries and in the blink of an eye were either gone or not themselves. I don’t even want to bring up Jason Seahorn.
Does the Covid thing add another layer of risk? Yes. Was there enough risk before where this should be something fans are prepared to handle. Yes. Football is a dangerous sport with or without Covid.
So losing a potential Franchise QB, one of the players that is hardest to fine because we forced a season in a Pandemic doesn’t potential piss you off.
Blowing out a knee can happen and is a risk is taken every time a player plays. It is not however preventable. COVID is if you take the right precautions.
Having 50+ people gather together at anytime right now is a risk that does not need to be taken even in a state that has the spread managed. It’s just asking for an outbreak.
I like the core of our players and would absolutely hate to see someone (or anyone) no longer be able to play at a high level because they got COVID being around other players.
Quote:
But the thing with football is it’s a dangerous game, if you’re not prepared as a fan that your favorite player can end their career on any given play, you’re fooling yourself.
Terrell Thomas, Steve Smith and David Wilson to name a few had injuries and in the blink of an eye were either gone or not themselves. I don’t even want to bring up Jason Seahorn.
Does the Covid thing add another layer of risk? Yes. Was there enough risk before where this should be something fans are prepared to handle. Yes. Football is a dangerous sport with or without Covid.
So losing a potential Franchise QB, one of the players that is hardest to fine because we forced a season in a Pandemic doesn’t potential piss you off.
Blowing out a knee can happen and is a risk is taken every time a player plays. It is not however preventable. COVID is if you take the right precautions.
Having 50+ people gather together at anytime right now is a risk that does not need to be taken even in a state that has the spread managed. It’s just asking for an outbreak.
I like the core of our players and would absolutely hate to see someone (or anyone) no longer be able to play at a high level because they got COVID being around other players.
IMO playing with COVID risks is closer to forcing a game in a hurricane or in a lightning storm than the knee injury risk.
a little IMO.
Sterling Shepard immediately comes to mind. He's one more hit to the head to probably being done.
At that points it’s Que Sera, Sera
Quote:
In the off-season. No way to know who would get it if there's a season vs not.
At this point, I’m mostly tuning into the site to read the site owner’s increasingly wacky and dug-in analyses on covid issues. Yes, playing group contact sports and traveling with groups of 60 or 70 plus to play other groups of strangers (and interacting with all of the people tangentially related to this travel) from different geographic locations is probably safer. No more risky than the grocery store. Good thinkin’!
This is a good point. One could argue they might be safer in the controlled environment.
I believe there's a strong likelihood it won't be possible to complete a season at all.
Keep in mind, this is summer. Football is in high-flu season.
Also eye-opening is the scandal at Colorado State - will any of that sort of unethical management happen in the NFL?
Given all of that - no, it isn't worth risking high value players. I'd like to see at least Jones and Barkley sit out the season.
(1) These players are getting tested daily (an eventually every other day). They are also being FORCED BY CONTRACT to change their lifestyle outside of the football operations under penalty of losing $$$. In addition, if you saw the 13-minute video yesterday, the mask wearing and social distance requirements are being strictly enforced. I don't think it is outrageous to say that YOU are now more at risk than the player.
(2) I'm on record multiple times saying that football players are more likely to spread this (if they are infected) than any other athlete (outside of MMA).
So what am I saying that you find "wacky'?
Also yes footballs already dangerous, but a players wife or kids can’t catch a concussion or a torn acl from them, but they could catch covid.
(1) These players are getting tested daily (an eventually every other day). They are also being FORCED BY CONTRACT to change their lifestyle outside of the football operations under penalty of losing $$$. In addition, if you saw the 13-minute video yesterday, the mask wearing and social distance requirements are being strictly enforced. I don't think it is outrageous to say that YOU are now more at risk than the player.
(2) I'm on record multiple times saying that football players are more likely to spread this (if they are infected) than any other athlete (outside of MMA).
So what am I saying that you find "wacky'?
I’ll send a response later (after I drag my way through these interminable zoom meetings). Big fan of BBI, a big part of my daily routine for what, 15 years? Progressively more bummed out about your dialogue and reliably one-sided dialogues on covid issues though — which is strongly impacting my feelings about the site. Not that anyone is going to miss my boring, rarely read golf and food posts anyway lol. Anywho, will try to do some sparring later, and thanks for years and years of great football coverage.
Al, If you want I can write 7 paragraphs of flowery stuff for gold old nostalgia:)
There's a 27 year old pitcher for Boston who got it, recovered, but still has heart inflammation. Boston won't pass his physical and won't let him return.
Quote:
followed all sports on this. Are there any examples of any athletes suffering permanent damage? I don't recall seeing any.
There's a 27 year old pitcher for Boston who got it, recovered, but still has heart inflammation. Boston won't pass his physical and won't let him return.
After he was initially sedated in the ICU for 18 days, his leg was amputated. He also went into septic shock, had a lung infection and had a temporary pacemaker put in. He was slated for a double lung transplant when he passed away.
Sure, most recover. Some don't even get hit with harsh symptoms. But for some people, it's a death sentence, for others it leaves a lifetime of issues to deal with.
A close friend of mine - 51, in decent health wound up with a scarred lung after a 2-week bout with it. He has no idea how he caught it, was taking all the precautions, both he and his wife teleworking 100%.
My family, we're hunkered down and being extremely conservative with our approach. Just brought in a load of groceries - we sanitize every item before it comes in the house.
Can't wait for the day it's over, but I don't think that's for a long time.
So comparatively speaking, a football player not returning to form, that's pretty low on the priority list. At least athletes have the option of making a decision to opt out (and still get paid).
Some essential employees don't have that option and need to work to support their families.
So comparatively speaking, a football player not returning to form, that's pretty low on the priority list. At least athletes have the option of making a decision to opt out (and still get paid).
Some essential employees don't have that option and need to work to support their families.
There is absolutely no need for anyone that plays a professional sport to risk their entire careers to play a sport in a pandemic. Especially in a situation where they are more at risk because of the number of people they have to be in close quarters too.
On top of that sports is simply entertainment. We absolutely don’t need it.
The essential works “should” be working on safer conditions. My mother-in-law Is an essential worker and his worked every week of the pandemic and is an at risk age bracket. Do I wish she didn’t have to do that, hell’s yes, but I’m glad that her employer does the things to keep her safe and took some of her feedback to make them safer.
Quote:
There are plenty of everyday people who are essential employees who are risking their health. Some of these people are dying.
So comparatively speaking, a football player not returning to form, that's pretty low on the priority list. At least athletes have the option of making a decision to opt out (and still get paid).
Some essential employees don't have that option and need to work to support their families.
There is absolutely no need for anyone that plays a professional sport to risk their entire careers to play a sport in a pandemic. Especially in a situation where they are more at risk because of the number of people they have to be in close quarters to.
On top of that sports is simply entertainment. We absolutely don’t need it.
I dont follow the point about "need." Most have 5-7 year careers and want to get paid this year. I dont think any of us have the right to tell someone else they don't have a right to work and earn income. Its just not our place, in fact its very controlling and frightening that anyone would think that way. Especially when the data shows its low risk of a bad outcome. Risk well below "acceptable" risks such as CTE, permanent limps and back pain from knee and other injuries, etc.
On the OPs question - No one is reporting to camp for altruistic reasons - so why should fans feel guilty if someone has that rare bad outcome?? And they've all been given the opportunity to opt-out ... and still get paid anyway which was an incredibly nice gesture by the owners.
The reality is, generally speaking of course, the sports leagues arent creating more risks for these players than they've already willingly accepted in their personal lives. Some Rams player just had a 300 person house party, as just one crazy example. Eduardo Rodriguez, the scary story cited as Exhibit A above .... wasnt infected during a game or practice, it was before camp. Their risks arent "Zero" if they dont play, and so everyone needs to make their own personal choice on what's best for them.
Then we have the other side of the coin. That is a very tough argument you are making that these guys are safer. Some will be, due to their ignorance I'm sure and they'd probably spend a lot of time partying. Many others that are worried and taking precautions will be much more in danger. And yes its danger, some of these guys are obese.
I seriously wonder if we are going to see a serious hospitalization or two among some of these lineman. There are going to be outbreaks on teams, even with these precautions. I'd imagine there is a time from picking up COVID before onset of it becoming obvious on test. It's not like you pick something up and it's immediately obvious on a test. I think there needs to be an onset of symptoms and time for your body to react to test positive. I could be wrong though, maybe Bill L can chime in.
Then we have the other side of the coin. That is a very tough argument you are making that these guys are safer. Some will be, due to their ignorance I'm sure and they'd probably spend a lot of time partying. Many others that are worried and taking precautions will be much more in danger. And yes its danger, some of these guys are obese.
I seriously wonder if we are going to see a serious hospitalization or two among some of these lineman. There are going to be outbreaks on teams, even with these precautions. I'd imagine there is a time from picking up COVID before onset of it becoming obvious on test. It's not like you pick something up and it's immediately obvious on a test. I think there needs to be an onset of symptoms and time for your body to react to test positive. I could be wrong though, maybe Bill L can chime in.
If you can’t breathe you can’t play qb. I’m also fairly certain if you have a serious heart condition you shouldn’t play football either.
Quote:
But the thing with football is it’s a dangerous game, if you’re not prepared as a fan that your favorite player can end their career on any given play, you’re fooling yourself.
Terrell Thomas, Steve Smith and David Wilson to name a few had injuries and in the blink of an eye were either gone or not themselves. I don’t even want to bring up Jason Seahorn.
Does the Covid thing add another layer of risk? Yes. Was there enough risk before where this should be something fans are prepared to handle. Yes. Football is a dangerous sport with or without Covid.
So losing a potential Franchise QB, one of the players that is hardest to fine because we forced a season in a Pandemic doesn’t potential piss you off.
Blowing out a knee can happen and is a risk is taken every time a player plays. It is not however preventable. COVID is if you take the right precautions.
Having 50+ people gather together at anytime right now is a risk that does not need to be taken even in a state that has the spread managed. It’s just asking for an outbreak.
I like the core of our players and would absolutely hate to see someone (or anyone) no longer be able to play at a high level because they got COVID being around other players.
These guys are tested constantly and multiple safety precautions are taken. The other half is accountability on their end to not do stupid things (like go to a strip club after a game Marlins). I’d hate to see any player get hurt or sick but that doesn’t change that there is always a risk, specifically one they know when they show up to work.
Quote:
There are plenty of everyday people who are essential employees who are risking their health. Some of these people are dying.
So comparatively speaking, a football player not returning to form, that's pretty low on the priority list. At least athletes have the option of making a decision to opt out (and still get paid).
Some essential employees don't have that option and need to work to support their families.
There is absolutely no need for anyone that plays a professional sport to risk their entire careers to play a sport in a pandemic. Especially in a situation where they are more at risk because of the number of people they have to be in close quarters too.
On top of that sports is simply entertainment. We absolutely don’t need it.
The essential works “should” be working on safer conditions. My mother-in-law Is an essential worker and his worked every week of the pandemic and is an at risk age bracket. Do I wish she didn’t have to do that, hell’s yes, but I’m glad that her employer does the things to keep her safe and took some of her feedback to make them safer.
I kind of agree with the next post down that if they are comfortable with the risks, I am not going to have too much heartburn over it if they get injured. Their choice, their consequences. It would be a different scenario if they were forced to play.
On your last point, the protocols the NFL is implementing are hopefully making it safer for the players to do their jobs. I think the NFL is taking notes on some of the lessons learned from the MLB, NBA, NHL restarts.
The problem isn't the environment insomuch as the sport itself. Look how it's spreading in MLB - the most minimal contact major sport. NFL linemen literally wrestle, sweat, breathe heavily, yell and spit all over one another on every single play. If one lineman has it, 100% certainty both lines will have it by game's end.
It is believed, though no one can know for sure i suppose, that it is spreading on baseball teams because of off-the-field activity and disregard for social distancing and masking guidelines. Manfred said "the players have to be better" this week - he could of course be spinning things for his benefit, but based on the stories of Marlins at bars and strip clubs and Cardinals gambling and partying in Minneapolis... I'm inclined to believe him.
Scientists a lot more brilliant than me developed helmets that is supposed to help reduce transmission on the field... we'll see... the far bigger risk to the NFL this year is Rams and other players throwing 300 person parties to 'blow off steam' during the week, than what happens on the field, IMO
Blowing out a knee can happen and is a risk is taken every time a player plays. It is not however preventable. COVID is if you take the right precautions.
Interesting logic.
Covid is preventable .... if they dont play this season.
In contrast, blowing out a knee is not preventable (of course... it is .... if you dont play this season)
Quote:
Type of career ending or limiting injury
Sterling Shepard immediately comes to mind. He's one more hit to the head to probably being done.
Sterling Shepard is absolutely someone who should consider punting on the season. He's a hit from retirement, no use taking that hit in a season like this.
Whether you play or not you are still living your normal life and in theory anyone on the field doesnt have it
Luis Cessa (NYY reliever) said he felt like he was having a little trouble breathing when he first started throwing bullpens again after recovering. He says he's gotten back to normal or is getting there since, but again... there's just a lot we don't know and won't know for some time.
I personally don't know if the NFL season makes it through. I just think the nature of the sport is such that it'll be very hard to contain spread once it begins. The initial intake numbers look good - surprisingly good, actually. But, there's no guarantee it holds.
I think the odds of a player winding up suffering career-altering effects from COVID are almost surely very, very low. Low enough that I think I'd be comfortable allowing them to play the season. Again, I just think it's going to be tough to make work.
MLB actually had zero new player cases today and they're doing travel unlike NBA/NHL where they're bubbled in a hub city/cities. So, I think if players follow protocol and the league has its ducks in a row, it can work and I am not personally worried about serious long-term effects from the virus in the players - but, obviously those aren't the only people who are at risk.
There will be other personnel around teams. For someone like Dave Gettleman to get the virus could be really dangerous, obviously. So, it's tricky. I know Dave won't be traveling with the team and it's a random example, but there are going to be other older folks who might be more at risk who will be involved in certain team/stadium tasks.
I think just with the nature of football being what it is, there's already so much inherent risk. It would be hard for me to say I am okay watching football in a normal year where a young man can be forever changed if he takes a hit in the wrong spot - which we've seen in this league several times over - but turn around and say that I am not okay with players taking on the risk of COVID. That just wouldn't be consistent logic.
Quote:
I don't think you are thinking this through and/or really understanding me.
(1) These players are getting tested daily (an eventually every other day). They are also being FORCED BY CONTRACT to change their lifestyle outside of the football operations under penalty of losing $$$. In addition, if you saw the 13-minute video yesterday, the mask wearing and social distance requirements are being strictly enforced. I don't think it is outrageous to say that YOU are now more at risk than the player.
(2) I'm on record multiple times saying that football players are more likely to spread this (if they are infected) than any other athlete (outside of MMA).
So what am I saying that you find "wacky'?
I’ll send a response later (after I drag my way through these interminable zoom meetings). Big fan of BBI, a big part of my daily routine for what, 15 years? Progressively more bummed out about your dialogue and reliably one-sided dialogues on covid issues though — which is strongly impacting my feelings about the site. Not that anyone is going to miss my boring, rarely read golf and food posts anyway lol. Anywho, will try to do some sparring later, and thanks for years and years of great football coverage.
These are odd posts. You are on record for months here Earlier in the year of being very dismissive of this pandemic. Nothing to worry about type posts. Eric hasn’t said anything in this thread at least that was remotely ‘fake news’ — not sure if there has been stuff in other threads ...
+1. New father. He should rethink his career. I know if I’m him I’d retire. Looks at keuchlys concussion history and then take a look at sterling. Very very similar
Quote:
effects due to COVID? Uhh can someone point to me the scenario where he doesn't come back. I thought this thread alluded to some of the heart and lung damage that they are still hypothesizing can occur. Why would this affect you all that much at QB?
It's a good point really - I mean, what pussy can't man up and play NFL seasons with a little heart and lung damage? Even a transplanted lung or 2 - I mean, you still can breathe, right? Same goes for the amputations - fingers - I mean, you have 2 hands, right - and the legs - they do incredible things with prosthetics. Think of how cool it would be so see legs go flying in the air when sacked? I was definitely underthinking it - thanks for setting us straight.
Can you share the data with us -- % transplanted lungs or % amputations... as % of total Covid infections and % of total population base in the age bracket 19-40?
Thanks in advance.
Otherwise this was a lot of diarrhea of the mouth...
Yeah, diarrhea of the mouth is right.
Yeah, diarrhea of the mouth is right.
You didnt answer the question, just more fear mongering based on mostly senior citizen data. Not worth discussion, you havent been doing your homework.
I find this line of thinking to be craven and disgusting. Young people spread it same as old.
Quote:
there are 330 million Americans and 3 million per year die from various causes. All tragic. The show will and should go on for the younger, healthier population - your temper tantrums aside.
the #1 killer of Americans right now is CoVid. I'm not willing to *sacrifice* anyone.
I find this line of thinking to be craven and disgusting. Young people spread it same as old.
How many kids have died from Covid under 16? How many kids are being killed in our cities from senseless shootings?
I do not understand all this arguing over the players. They are making a choice to play or not play and if they choose not they are still being paid more than the vast majority of people in the workforce. Any other profession being given this choice?
lol. Deal with it. It is what it is.
a little IMO.
You don't know that.
A few months ago, the most common thinking on Covid was that it was a respiratory disease. Now we know that it's vascular with strong respiratory symptoms.
This virus is not even a year old yet. Imagine what else we'll know with the benefit of time.
Quote:
there are 330 million Americans and 3 million per year die from various causes. All tragic. The show will and should go on for the younger, healthier population - your temper tantrums aside.
the #1 killer of Americans right now is CoVid. I'm not willing to *sacrifice* anyone.
That is absolutely false, and its not even close. I respect a lot of people's opinions on this board about taking a cautious approach - Bill L, kicker, CiP and many others - you dont fall in that camp. You're completely paranoid and devoid of facts and data in your takes.
Quote:
In comment 14944865 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
there are 330 million Americans and 3 million per year die from various causes. All tragic. The show will and should go on for the younger, healthier population - your temper tantrums aside.
the #1 killer of Americans right now is CoVid. I'm not willing to *sacrifice* anyone.
That is absolutely false, and its not even close. I respect a lot of people's opinions on this board about taking a cautious approach - Bill L, kicker, CiP and many others - you dont fall in that camp. You're completely paranoid and devoid of facts and data in your takes.
I have a household with hospital staff in it, family and friends are healthcare professionals. None of them take it as lightly as your reckless stance.
Why not try to have a football season? The NBA/NHL has been going very well. MLB has gone well aside of 2 outbreaks.
You continuously look to expand the discussion beyond the scope of this thread and what’s allowed on BBI. Your deferral to authority in the ‘Medical’ household is noted - I know doctors too amazing I know! - and one could easily argue all professional sports leagues have reopened this year so that means they’re all ‘reckless’ in your view... moving on
You remain way way to high level on this subject matter. Of course it’s a serious matter especially for those at higher age and with underlying health issues. We all knew that. Anything else from 5 Months ago to bring to the debate?
Let’s get back on topic - please support your stance that Daniel Jones will need not one but two lung transplants if he plays this season. Case studies, age based metrics, cold hard statistics, anything other than your gutt?
Separately, glad upon further your review covid went from the biggest killer in the US to after called on that ... it might be in the top 3. We’re making progress on your bullshit.
Quote:
In comment 14944214 YAJ2112 said:
Quote:
In the off-season. No way to know who would get it if there's a season vs not.
This is a good point. One could argue they might be safer in the controlled environment.
The problem isn't the environment insomuch as the sport itself. Look how it's spreading in MLB - the most minimal contact major sport. NFL linemen literally wrestle, sweat, breathe heavily, yell and spit all over one another on every single play. If one lineman has it, 100% certainty both lines will have it by game's end.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. All the books we read and movies we saw about Pandemic's - I don't recall a single story that had this *damn the torpedoes* approach.
2020 sucks.
Think back on those movies. Maybe you’re thinking of 28 days later, when in a month a virus turned most of a city into zombies. Maybe you’re thinking of Contagion, where 2.5mm people in the USA die from the disease, and 25% of people who catch it die, regardless of age, in a matter of days. Or maybe it is some other movie.
Did any of those pandemic movies terrify you with a pandemic that killed just 4,000 total people under 45 over six months, and which at least 99.7% of people survive and which appears to have already started to burn out in way more than half the country?
What a stupid question.
I could get on an even higher horse than yours and ask why you think it’s acceptable to play during any flu season. Yes, COVID is more deadly than flu, but flu is still deadly. So, how many people are you willing to risk during the next ordinary flu season? Can you name names?
This ignores the fact that what, 30% of NYC and now 20% of even places like Arizona are testing positive for antibodies. And those numbers are 1) undercounting Bc of T cell rather than antibody immunity and 2) only going up every day. So the idea that a Cardinals player (or anyone) has a real method of avoiding the disease is ludicrous. Yes, you can lock yourself at home like my 94yo grandmother does, but if you are leaving your house much at all you are at roughly the same risk of contracting covid at some point by year end as by playing football.
Dabo Swinney: "He’s just nowhere near where he needs to be to play football."
Story is now updated, including this quote from Dabo Swinney: "He had a hard time when he got back with just his breathing... that’s a combination of COVID, his strep throat, being a little heavy."
Looks like even younger and healthier athletes are not immune from getting really sick. Just wait until a huge olineman or dlineman gets really sick in the NFL where they are older.
Clemson star Xavier Thomas will miss most of the 2020 season after a battle with COVID-19, strep throat. - ( New Window )
Quote:
and can you name names?
What a stupid question.
I could get on an even higher horse than yours and ask why you think it’s acceptable to play during any flu season. Yes, COVID is more deadly than flu, but flu is still deadly. So, how many people are you willing to risk during the next ordinary flu season? Can you name names?
This ignores the fact that what, 30% of NYC and now 20% of even places like Arizona are testing positive for antibodies. And those numbers are 1) undercounting Bc of T cell rather than antibody immunity and 2) only going up every day. So the idea that a Cardinals player (or anyone) has a real method of avoiding the disease is ludicrous. Yes, you can lock yourself at home like my 94yo grandmother does, but if you are leaving your house much at all you are at roughly the same risk of contracting covid at some point by year end as by playing football.
I'd rebut but I feel like it would be too much effort to explain to you what the letter T means, much less a T cell.
Quote:
In comment 14944866 Bill L said:
Quote:
and can you name names?
What a stupid question.
I could get on an even higher horse than yours and ask why you think it’s acceptable to play during any flu season. Yes, COVID is more deadly than flu, but flu is still deadly. So, how many people are you willing to risk during the next ordinary flu season? Can you name names?
This ignores the fact that what, 30% of NYC and now 20% of even places like Arizona are testing positive for antibodies. And those numbers are 1) undercounting Bc of T cell rather than antibody immunity and 2) only going up every day. So the idea that a Cardinals player (or anyone) has a real method of avoiding the disease is ludicrous. Yes, you can lock yourself at home like my 94yo grandmother does, but if you are leaving your house much at all you are at roughly the same risk of contracting covid at some point by year end as by playing football.
I'd rebut but I feel like it would be too much effort to explain to you what the letter T means, much less a T cell.
Ooof. :)
Quote:
In comment 14944866 Bill L said:
Quote:
and can you name names?
What a stupid question.
I could get on an even higher horse than yours and ask why you think it’s acceptable to play during any flu season. Yes, COVID is more deadly than flu, but flu is still deadly. So, how many people are you willing to risk during the next ordinary flu season? Can you name names?
This ignores the fact that what, 30% of NYC and now 20% of even places like Arizona are testing positive for antibodies. And those numbers are 1) undercounting Bc of T cell rather than antibody immunity and 2) only going up every day. So the idea that a Cardinals player (or anyone) has a real method of avoiding the disease is ludicrous. Yes, you can lock yourself at home like my 94yo grandmother does, but if you are leaving your house much at all you are at roughly the same risk of contracting covid at some point by year end as by playing football.
I'd rebut but I feel like it would be too much effort to explain to you what the letter T means, much less a T cell.
Oh dear, how will I ever recover from such a sick burn.
I’ll ask it directly: people die from flu. Was it immoral for MJ to play in the “flu game”?
For people of NFL age, flu probably kills at about the same rate as covid, but let’s say it’s 3x higher. Have you calibrated your risk threshold so precisely that covid (1 in 3k dies let’s say) breaches it but flu (1 in 10k let’s say) does not? How did you get there?
And one step further: Why should pro football players be more scared of covid that CTE this year? Which do you think will impair more NFL players long term existence if they played this year? Hint: it’s CTE by multiple orders of magnitude.
We're supposed to all be in this together. We look at the rest of the industrialized world, we look right over the border at Canada and see how collectively the disease can be brought under control and how economies can recover.
And we refuse to do it. Because as I've been told "The show will and should go on for the younger, healthier population".
It's not the fucking flu.
We're supposed to all be in this together. We look at the rest of the industrialized world, we look right over the border at Canada and see how collectively the disease can be brought under control and how economies can recover.
And we refuse to do it. Because as I've been told "The show will and should go on for the younger, healthier population".
I guess i missed the part where sports ARENT being played in other countries as you suggest we do here. I guess i missed the part where other countries are still in quarantine and under strict stay-at-home orders, where younger healthier people are not allowed to go to work and earn an income as you suggest football players do in this thread.
You want to suggest we all wear masks when out - I'm all for it, i do it myself.
You want to suggest players not spend time with their parents and grand parents during the season given they'll be at higher risk of spread for a few months - I agree
But instead you've come on here and your proposed solution is... no season, no income... and that if we play, Daniel Jones will likely require two lung transplants.... its just crazy embellishment and thinking you get to decide who gets to work and make money and who doesnt is just incredibly controlling.
A novel virus:
with a mortality rate of 0% in those age 24 and younger.
A virus that is completely asymptomatic 80% of the time.
A virus that affects those with comorbidities almost exclusively (yes the 41 year-old actor smoked).
The fans and staff are at infinitely more risk than the players. If they don't go home to someone immunocompromised (think Nate Solder) there is very little risk.
Ask yourself why all we hear about now is "cases".
Also, if you think this is bad, especially for my NY area friends that hear "Houston is sooooo bad" just go to indeed.com and see who's hiring nurses. Houston isn't.
Hospitals are furloughing nurses, and staffs are twiddling their thumbs.
Google Search Mixed Messages, LOL - ( New Window )
https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2020/07/10/harris-health-system-requests-traveling-nurses-to-help-fight-covid-19-surge/
(You can also click on the Houston Chronicle, which details hundreds of travel nurses flooding into Houston).
Beyond that, the rest of your post is illogical and not worth responding to. But good job; you are able to link your Google search.
At this point, a major goal should be managing caseloads currently, doing what we can at low cost (mask mandates, encouraging social distancing, limiting large gatherings), and preparing for the potential for a nasty fall/winter.
Unfortunately, the biggest issue coming up will be staff burnout in healthcare facilities, and how we manage that.
Quote:
But instead you've come on here and your proposed solution is... no season, no income... and that if we play, Daniel Jones will likely require two lung transplants.... its just crazy embellishment and thinking you get to decide who gets to work and make money and who doesnt is just incredibly controlling.
My opinion is that it's folly to do what the NFL is trying to for a variety of obvious reasons - I'm fine with regional opening on a phased approach nationwide for ALL jobs. The Northeast is currently in good shape, most of the rest of the country is not. Yes, training camp and games in the Meadowlands are low CoVid risk TODAY.
The NFL is an enormous enterprise made up of heavily staffed franchises that travel to and from regions all over the country. EXACTLY what you DO NOT need during a PANDEMIC.
You want to keep football in safe regions, fine. NFL (and MLB) IMO should just make it an exhibition season since there is no way to tell how many games will actually be completed and which teams will make it through a CoVid impacted season. Teams have already lost players who are opting out. MLB teams already cancelling stretches of schedule. 56 NFL players have contracted CoVid to date, and we haven't played a single snap.
*I* don't get to determine who gets to work or play and who doesn't.
CoVid does.
Also, if you think this is bad, especially for my NY area friends that hear "Houston is sooooo bad" just go to indeed.com and see who's hiring nurses. Houston isn't.
Hospitals are furloughing nurses, and staffs are twiddling their thumbs.
Google Search Mixed Messages, LOL - ( New Window )
FYI - in heavily impacted area's, hospital and healthcare layoffs and furloughs are common because MUCH of what healthcare does is SHUT DOWN. No elective surgery, in-house offices, rehab, etc are shut down. The Hospital's focus becomes almost ENTIRELY CoVid and ER.
So what you're seeing in Houston is actually status quo, at least in hard hit area's. Here, upstate NY hospitals have returned to their normal pace for the most part but back in April were experiencing similar functional shutdowns and layoffs.
Quote:
to have significant morbidity aspects (that appear to be growing) would cause more consternation among health experts and regular people than an annual virus that we seem to have a decent grasp on, for short- and long-term impacts.?
A novel virus:
with a mortality rate of 0% in those age 24 and younger.
A virus that is completely asymptomatic 80% of the time.
A virus that affects those with comorbidities almost exclusively (yes the 41 year-old actor smoked).
The fans and staff are at infinitely more risk than the players. If they don't go home to someone immunocompromised (think Nate Solder) there is very little risk.
Ask yourself why all we hear about now is "cases".
Also, if you think this is bad, especially for my NY area friends that hear "Houston is sooooo bad" just go to indeed.com and see who's hiring nurses. Houston isn't.
Hospitals are furloughing nurses, and staffs are twiddling their thumbs.
Google Search Mixed Messages, LOL - ( New Window )
I live in Tampa, which is 100% a hot spot and that will be easily verifiable with an internet search.
Hospitals are furloughing staff because outpatient and elective surgeries are postponed so resources can be shifted to Covid cases. It's not because things Actually Wonderful and there's no more need for medical professionals. The ways you're looking at this is off.
And some of the people being furloughed are medically high risk so they're being sent home to avoid infection.
Since outpatient surgeries were postponed, she is twiddling her thumbs. Her choices were either agree to screen and test COVID patients because they're understaffed, or be furloughed. As a type 1 diabetic, she's high-risk. So she took a furlough.
It's not the fucking flu.
What an old boring statement.
Pal, nothing is something else. It's like if someone saw a dessert menu with a 600 calorie slice of cake and a 400 calorie slice of pie and said "I think the cake has more calories than the pie, but I know my diet has room for a slice of pie every now and again, so I wonder if cake is okay too." But Neil thinks its really cool to swing in all the time and scream "BRO, CAKE IS NOT PIE."
Yes, obviously, there would be no point in comparing two things if they were the same. The reason we compare it is because they are comparable. So of course you can compare Covid to Flu - it is probably about half an order of magnitude more deadly (3-4x) than a bad flu season.
You can actually also compare it to the common cold, which is also caused by coronaviruses. You know how much you can compare it? So much that your existing immune system is likely boosted by the recency of a coronavirus cold you may have contracted.
https://www.livescience.com/common-cold-coronaviruses-t-cells-covid-19-immunity.html
Quote:
When people are still comparing this to the flu, I worry I am going to injure myself rolling my eyes.
It's not the fucking flu.
What an old boring statement.
Pal, nothing is something else. It's like if someone saw a dessert menu with a 600 calorie slice of cake and a 400 calorie slice of pie and said "I think the cake has more calories than the pie, but I know my diet has room for a slice of pie every now and again, so I wonder if cake is okay too." But Neil thinks its really cool to swing in all the time and scream "BRO, CAKE IS NOT PIE."
Yes, obviously, there would be no point in comparing two things if they were the same. The reason we compare it is because they are comparable. So of course you can compare Covid to Flu - it is probably about half an order of magnitude more deadly (3-4x) than a bad flu season.
You can actually also compare it to the common cold, which is also caused by coronaviruses. You know how much you can compare it? So much that your existing immune system is likely boosted by the recency of a coronavirus cold you may have contracted.
https://www.livescience.com/common-cold-coronaviruses-t-cells-covid-19-immunity.html
"The reason we compare it is because they are comparable"
You lose me there. They're not.
Do better.
Quote:
In comment 14945469 kicker said:
Quote:
to have significant morbidity aspects (that appear to be growing) would cause more consternation among health experts and regular people than an annual virus that we seem to have a decent grasp on, for short- and long-term impacts.?
A novel virus:
with a mortality rate of 0% in those age 24 and younger.
A virus that is completely asymptomatic 80% of the time.
A virus that affects those with comorbidities almost exclusively (yes the 41 year-old actor smoked).
The fans and staff are at infinitely more risk than the players. If they don't go home to someone immunocompromised (think Nate Solder) there is very little risk.
Ask yourself why all we hear about now is "cases".
Also, if you think this is bad, especially for my NY area friends that hear "Houston is sooooo bad" just go to indeed.com and see who's hiring nurses. Houston isn't.
Hospitals are furloughing nurses, and staffs are twiddling their thumbs.
Google Search Mixed Messages, LOL - ( New Window )
I live in Tampa, which is 100% a hot spot and that will be easily verifiable with an internet search.
Hospitals are furloughing staff because outpatient and elective surgeries are postponed so resources can be shifted to Covid cases. It's not because things Actually Wonderful and there's no more need for medical professionals. The ways you're looking at this is off.
And some of the people being furloughed are medically high risk so they're being sent home to avoid infection.
of course I support your wife's decision to protect herself, but I think your information about the problem in the medical system is just incorrect.
Tampa is in Hillsborough County. At the link below you can see the situation. As of today, in Hillsborough county covid patients occupy 394 hospital beds, non-covid patients occupy 2,907 beds, and 548 beds are empty. That's ~85% capacity utilization, with covid patients making up just a tick over 10% of all patients, and this is while the pandemic is clearly on the down slope in Florida. This is a hospital operating below normal capacity utilization to solve a resource problem it doesn't have.
And this is in one of the "hottest" spots in the country.
Link - ( New Window )
We have a flu vaccine each year and approved treatments for the flu. We have neither for COVID as it stands right now.
The column written by Dr. Jeremy Samuel Faust, MS, an emergency medicine specialist affiliated with Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Massachusetts, states that flu deaths are estimated while COVID-19 deaths are confirmed cases.
He notes that during mid-April the “counted deaths” for COVID-19 in the United States were around 15,000 per week. During a typical “peak week” for the flu, the “counted deaths” are about 750.
Faust concludes that COVID-19 deaths are actually anywhere from 10 times to 44 times the number of influenza fatalities.
If you're still comparing this to the flu, you lost the pack about 6 months ago. It has long been established that it's a worthless comparison because there are several key differences.
Sure, you could continue to force compare them - but it isn't serving much of a purpose.
Except, of course, the national average hospital bed utilization is between 49% (2019; differences between rural and urban) and 61% (2012). So, 85% is a significant increase.
And, of course, given that hospitals typically operate at the maximum number of beds per staffer (typically measured by RNs) during most times, this indicates the potential for significant staffing shortages (that we are seeing met by growing demand for travel nurses).
So, not sure why 85%, with ~10% being COVID patients, is a win.
Quote:
In comment 14945472 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
When people are still comparing this to the flu, I worry I am going to injure myself rolling my eyes.
It's not the fucking flu.
What an old boring statement.
Pal, nothing is something else. It's like if someone saw a dessert menu with a 600 calorie slice of cake and a 400 calorie slice of pie and said "I think the cake has more calories than the pie, but I know my diet has room for a slice of pie every now and again, so I wonder if cake is okay too." But Neil thinks its really cool to swing in all the time and scream "BRO, CAKE IS NOT PIE."
Yes, obviously, there would be no point in comparing two things if they were the same. The reason we compare it is because they are comparable. So of course you can compare Covid to Flu - it is probably about half an order of magnitude more deadly (3-4x) than a bad flu season.
You can actually also compare it to the common cold, which is also caused by coronaviruses. You know how much you can compare it? So much that your existing immune system is likely boosted by the recency of a coronavirus cold you may have contracted.
https://www.livescience.com/common-cold-coronaviruses-t-cells-covid-19-immunity.html
"The reason we compare it is because they are comparable"
You lose me there. They're not.
Do better.
You can compare an elephant to a horse. "While both are mammals, the mature elephant is larger than the mature horse." Specifically, you can say "The median elephant weighs more than the median horse."
You can compare pancreatic cancer to colon cancer. "Pancreatic cancer is typically more deadly than colon cancer." Specifically, you can say "The 5-year survival rate of a patient with Stage 3 colon cancer exceeds that of Stage 3 pancreatic cancer."
What the hell does it mean to say you can't compare things? I can compare a banana to the Eiffel Tower. "A banana is much more delicious than the Eiffel Tower, and usually more yellow."
So obviously you can compare Covid to the flu. You can say "Covid is more deadly than even bad flus which have recently struck our population. The best evidence says it is roughly 3-5x more deadly."
People who say you can't compare them want to shut down debate and not be confronted with hypocrisy because they would never, for example, forbid their father from coming to visit his grandkids for 6+ monthsover a flu.
MAYBE you are among the very few people who have calibrated their opinions so precisely that you can affirmatively say "Yes, I would tell my grandfather to fly on a plane if a disease were circulating with a 1/1000 mortality rate, but I would tell him to definitely NOT fly on the plane if there were a disease circulating with a 4/1000 mortality rate."
If so, you are the exception, but the fact you pretend to not understand how to compare two things makes me feel that's not the case.
100% agreed.
We have a flu vaccine each year and approved treatments for the flu. We have neither for COVID as it stands right now.
Quote:
A column Trusted Sourceprinted in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) on May 14 noted that flu deaths and COVID-19 deaths are not even reported the same way.
The column written by Dr. Jeremy Samuel Faust, MS, an emergency medicine specialist affiliated with Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Massachusetts, states that flu deaths are estimated while COVID-19 deaths are confirmed cases.
He notes that during mid-April the “counted deaths” for COVID-19 in the United States were around 15,000 per week. During a typical “peak week” for the flu, the “counted deaths” are about 750.
Faust concludes that COVID-19 deaths are actually anywhere from 10 times to 44 times the number of influenza fatalities.
If you're still comparing this to the flu, you lost the pack about 6 months ago. It has long been established that it's a worthless comparison because there are several key differences.
Sure, you could continue to force compare them - but it isn't serving much of a purpose.
I'm sorry, when you say we have a treatment for the flu but not for covid (WRRRRRONG! remdesivir is an approved treatment getting excellent results), or that there could be up to 44x as many covid fatalities as flu fatalities (WRRRRRONG! as flu typically kills about 40-50k people a year, that would mean 2mm people had died of COVID as of May 14... NOPE!), aren't you... um.... COMPARING covid and the flu?
Quote:
Also, I'm not sure where you're getting 3-4x more deadly from. Try 10x. It's closer to that.
We have a flu vaccine each year and approved treatments for the flu. We have neither for COVID as it stands right now.
Quote:
A column Trusted Sourceprinted in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) on May 14 noted that flu deaths and COVID-19 deaths are not even reported the same way.
The column written by Dr. Jeremy Samuel Faust, MS, an emergency medicine specialist affiliated with Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Massachusetts, states that flu deaths are estimated while COVID-19 deaths are confirmed cases.
He notes that during mid-April the “counted deaths” for COVID-19 in the United States were around 15,000 per week. During a typical “peak week” for the flu, the “counted deaths” are about 750.
Faust concludes that COVID-19 deaths are actually anywhere from 10 times to 44 times the number of influenza fatalities.
If you're still comparing this to the flu, you lost the pack about 6 months ago. It has long been established that it's a worthless comparison because there are several key differences.
Sure, you could continue to force compare them - but it isn't serving much of a purpose.
I'm sorry, when you say we have a treatment for the flu but not for covid (WRRRRRONG! remdesivir is an approved treatment getting excellent results), or that there could be up to 44x as many covid fatalities as flu fatalities (WRRRRRONG! as flu typically kills about 40-50k people a year, that would mean 2mm people had died of COVID as of May 14... NOPE!), aren't you... um.... COMPARING covid and the flu?
in the interest of being accurate, remdesivir is not "approved" but it is "authorized" and everyone in the medical community will tell you the results are excellent.
I don't know that anyone can truly know the answer to that question at this point. Only time will give us the proper perspective to accurately answer that.
So a hospital at 85% is quite possibly over 100% their normal operating capacity.
Need total 2019 beds for the comparison.
Quote:
Also, I'm not sure where you're getting 3-4x more deadly from. Try 10x. It's closer to that.
We have a flu vaccine each year and approved treatments for the flu. We have neither for COVID as it stands right now.
Quote:
A column Trusted Sourceprinted in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) on May 14 noted that flu deaths and COVID-19 deaths are not even reported the same way.
The column written by Dr. Jeremy Samuel Faust, MS, an emergency medicine specialist affiliated with Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Massachusetts, states that flu deaths are estimated while COVID-19 deaths are confirmed cases.
He notes that during mid-April the “counted deaths” for COVID-19 in the United States were around 15,000 per week. During a typical “peak week” for the flu, the “counted deaths” are about 750.
Faust concludes that COVID-19 deaths are actually anywhere from 10 times to 44 times the number of influenza fatalities.
If you're still comparing this to the flu, you lost the pack about 6 months ago. It has long been established that it's a worthless comparison because there are several key differences.
Sure, you could continue to force compare them - but it isn't serving much of a purpose.
I'm sorry, when you say we have a treatment for the flu but not for covid (WRRRRRONG! remdesivir is an approved treatment getting excellent results), or that there could be up to 44x as many covid fatalities as flu fatalities (WRRRRRONG! as flu typically kills about 40-50k people a year, that would mean 2mm people had died of COVID as of May 14... NOPE!), aren't you... um.... COMPARING covid and the flu?
What was your prior handle? Your childish and irritating posting style seems familiar.
Anyway, you're off on Remdesivir having "excellent results" - the results have been promising in some cases. Not all. And the results are mixed in other instances. You also left out this key detail while you were blowing so much hot air into what you seemed to think was a "gotcha" clapback.
This is right on the CDC website.
Comparing the flu and COVID is like comparing a QB to a DE. They're both football players, but other than that, they don't have a whole lot in common.
The flu is a respiratory virus. COVID is not the same. Some patients have developed blood clots in the veins and arteries of the lungs, heart, legs or brain and some children have developed MIS-C from COVID.
We have decades upon decades of flu data and research. We have so much less when it comes to this.
So again, compare them if you want to look for a way to diminish COVID and call it 'just a cold' or 'just the flu' - but when there are so many key differences and unknowns involved, it's an exercise in futility.
COVID should be treated like COVID as we continue to learn more and collect more data.
Wonder why...
Probably because it would have diminished your point.
Let's quantify the healthcare cost differences in just one county in America: the one that was brought up.
I'm going to underestimate everything, but the "cost-savings" per day of an unfilled normal hospital bed is above $200, while for an unfilled ICU bed it is above $400. The average occupancy rate for ICU beds is normally around 68%. For regular hospital beds, its around 49%. I'm only going to focus on ICU bed fills.
So, these estimates are going to be much lower than they should be. I'm also going to assume that the average fills for hospital beds are all going to the flu (again, provides an underestimate). Using August 8th data.
So, the cost INCREASES per day during the pandemic for ICU's in one county are an additional $7,629 per day for COVID ICU beds; over the duration of the illness (in excess of the average ICU entry), this is $38,150 per illness per day.
Just over the past 2 weeks, the excess cost of COVID bed fills in one county is $534,095.
Hillsbrough is the 27th largest county population. Let's assume that these COVID costs are just found in Hillsbrough, and the larger counties ONLY, just over the past 2 weeks. You know what the economic cost of COVID is, over flu?
Over $14 million. In 2 weeks. Just in ICU beds. Just in 27 counties (over 3,000 in America).
2) So much still unknown. So many theories and guesses have been debunked, proven wrong, etc. constantly. So, why or how anyone can say with confidence what the long term effects are or will be is beyond me.
3) Re #2: the answer can be different for every person.
4) I can tell you I had a mild case. But,the initial symptoms lingered for 4 weeks, not 2. And, now, after testing negative over 6 weeks ago, I still wake up every morning and have to think about how my breathing is. Think about that. How often do you think about your breathing? Now,think about an athlete who is used to going all out against equally fast, strong, and talented guys. Having that in the back of your mind is not good.
It should!
But, for folks like we have in this thread, welp...