In the off-season. No way to know who would get it if there's a season vs not.
This is a good point. One could argue they might be safer in the controlled environment.
not only this, and I haven't seen the NFL/NFLPA agreement, but some pro sports the players had to agree to adhere to very specific standards of protection and guidelines and if they breach any of these and it results in COVID they forfeit their pay.
So, I agree, they might be better off than the general population or if they were to opt out/cancel the season.
In the off-season. No way to know who would get it if there's a season vs not.
This is a good point. One could argue they might be safer in the controlled environment.
The problem isn't the environment insomuch as the sport itself. Look how it's spreading in MLB - the most minimal contact major sport. NFL linemen literally wrestle, sweat, breathe heavily, yell and spit all over one another on every single play. If one lineman has it, 100% certainty both lines will have it by game's end.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. All the books we read and movies we saw about Pandemic's - I don't recall a single story that had this *damn the torpedoes* approach.
is that it has been around since at least the 50s. there are 2 strains of the virus, the normal one that is similar to the common cold and the super invasive one that came from China. unfortunately I dont think the testing distinguishes from the 2 and many positive tests are not going to have an impack on these players long term.
As for your original question, I dont think it matters what level the player is. It will be very sad. But at the same time, life needs to start happening again. Everyone needs to start getting back to work and take as much precautions as needed. While football isn't essential, this is a business. If they dont play this season the financial impact will be felt for a long time and the players may not have a league to come back to. They built in an opt out for the players and while a guy like OBJ complains he still wants his check.
Many people are out of work but would go back in a heartbeat because they need money. Players need money.
followed all sports on this. Are there any examples of any athletes suffering permanent damage? I don't recall seeing any.
I'm not sure I can answer a question about permanency in a disease that's 6 months old.
I know of at least one player on the Red Sox who has myocarditis from COVID-19 and is out for the year. What will happen beyond that is anyone's guess.
In the off-season. No way to know who would get it if there's a season vs not.
This is a good point. One could argue they might be safer in the controlled environment.
The problem isn't the environment insomuch as the sport itself. Look how it's spreading in MLB - the most minimal contact major sport. NFL linemen literally wrestle, sweat, breathe heavily, yell and spit all over one another on every single play. If one lineman has it, 100% certainty both lines will have it by game's end.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. All the books we read and movies we saw about Pandemic's - I don't recall a single story that had this *damn the torpedoes* approach.
2020 sucks.
Maybe because none of the would-be authors were around to write one?
is that it has been around since at least the 50s. there are 2 strains of the virus, the normal one that is similar to the common cold and the super invasive one that came from China. unfortunately I dont think the testing distinguishes from the 2 and many positive tests are not going to have an impack on these players long term.
As for your original question, I dont think it matters what level the player is. It will be very sad. But at the same time, life needs to start happening again. Everyone needs to start getting back to work and take as much precautions as needed. While football isn't essential, this is a business. If they dont play this season the financial impact will be felt for a long time and the players may not have a league to come back to. They built in an opt out for the players and while a guy like OBJ complains he still wants his check.
Many people are out of work but would go back in a heartbeat because they need money. Players need money.
That's not even close to true. Novel means exactly what it says.
But the thing with football is it’s a dangerous game, if you’re not prepared as a fan that your favorite player can end their career on any given play, you’re fooling yourself.
Terrell Thomas, Steve Smith and David Wilson to name a few had injuries and in the blink of an eye were either gone or not themselves. I don’t even want to bring up Jason Seahorn.
Does the Covid thing add another layer of risk? Yes. Was there enough risk before where this should be something fans are prepared to handle. Yes. Football is a dangerous sport with or without Covid.
As I've posted, if any athlete is going to get it by playing, it will be football players.
At the same time, pandemic books/movies usually don't have the general population shopping at the grocery store, dropping their kids off at day care, or getting hair cuts either. Those people are all dead in the books/movies.
What's going to be fascinating to watch is if the NFL actually cancels games like MLB. That would rapidly turn the season into a joke.
Wouldn't be shocked if Las Vegas controls if there will be a season...
Losing a QB right before the game is going to create too much inconsistency and lost money and there's far too much influence/control on the league office.
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
With roughly 2,600 players currently on rosters, that’s about 3.5% that have landed on the Reserve/COVID-19 list for any reason (positive test/close contact). It’s early, but the numbers are lower than many expected during initial screening.
— 90 players have been on the reserve list.
— 35 players have been activated from the list, with Jaguars CB Parry Nickerson being the latest.
— 67 of the 90 players put on the Reserve/COVID-19 list are 25 years old or younger.
But the thing with football is it’s a dangerous game, if you’re not prepared as a fan that your favorite player can end their career on any given play, you’re fooling yourself.
Terrell Thomas, Steve Smith and David Wilson to name a few had injuries and in the blink of an eye were either gone or not themselves. I don’t even want to bring up Jason Seahorn.
Does the Covid thing add another layer of risk? Yes. Was there enough risk before where this should be something fans are prepared to handle. Yes. Football is a dangerous sport with or without Covid.
So losing a potential Franchise QB, one of the players that is hardest to fine because we forced a season in a Pandemic doesn’t potential piss you off.
Blowing out a knee can happen and is a risk is taken every time a player plays. It is not however preventable. COVID is if you take the right precautions.
Having 50+ people gather together at anytime right now is a risk that does not need to be taken even in a state that has the spread managed. It’s just asking for an outbreak.
I like the core of our players and would absolutely hate to see someone (or anyone) no longer be able to play at a high level because they got COVID being around other players.
But the thing with football is it’s a dangerous game, if you’re not prepared as a fan that your favorite player can end their career on any given play, you’re fooling yourself.
Terrell Thomas, Steve Smith and David Wilson to name a few had injuries and in the blink of an eye were either gone or not themselves. I don’t even want to bring up Jason Seahorn.
Does the Covid thing add another layer of risk? Yes. Was there enough risk before where this should be something fans are prepared to handle. Yes. Football is a dangerous sport with or without Covid.
So losing a potential Franchise QB, one of the players that is hardest to fine because we forced a season in a Pandemic doesn’t potential piss you off.
Blowing out a knee can happen and is a risk is taken every time a player plays. It is not however preventable. COVID is if you take the right precautions.
Having 50+ people gather together at anytime right now is a risk that does not need to be taken even in a state that has the spread managed. It’s just asking for an outbreak.
I like the core of our players and would absolutely hate to see someone (or anyone) no longer be able to play at a high level because they got COVID being around other players.
IMO playing with COVID risks is closer to forcing a game in a hurricane or in a lightning storm than the knee injury risk.
Until you can catch a torn ACL from sitting in the same meeting room, or have to be quarantined for a week because of it, these comparisons are a little incomplete.
In the off-season. No way to know who would get it if there's a season vs not.
At this point, I’m mostly tuning into the site to read the site owner’s increasingly wacky and dug-in analyses on covid issues. Yes, playing group contact sports and traveling with groups of 60 or 70 plus to play other groups of strangers (and interacting with all of the people tangentially related to this travel) from different geographic locations is probably safer. No more risky than the grocery store. Good thinkin’!
This is a good point. One could argue they might be safer in the controlled environment.
It's going to be a crap, botched, incomplete season at *best*...
...right off the bat, some key players are going to sit it out, no preseason so the first few games are going to be a mess, there will be more injuries because of the watered-down training camp, there will be in-season quarantines that cause teams to suspend large chunks of their season.
I believe there's a strong likelihood it won't be possible to complete a season at all.
Keep in mind, this is summer. Football is in high-flu season.
Also eye-opening is the scandal at Colorado State - will any of that sort of unethical management happen in the NFL?
Given all of that - no, it isn't worth risking high value players. I'd like to see at least Jones and Barkley sit out the season.
I don't think you are thinking this through and/or really understanding me.
(1) These players are getting tested daily (an eventually every other day). They are also being FORCED BY CONTRACT to change their lifestyle outside of the football operations under penalty of losing $$$. In addition, if you saw the 13-minute video yesterday, the mask wearing and social distance requirements are being strictly enforced. I don't think it is outrageous to say that YOU are now more at risk than the player.
(2) I'm on record multiple times saying that football players are more likely to spread this (if they are infected) than any other athlete (outside of MMA).
was still here to chime in. He interacted with the players and often gave us the viewpoint from the non star players talking about them as people rather than assets.
The fact that we still don’t know all the long term effects
I don't think you are thinking this through and/or really understanding me.
(1) These players are getting tested daily (an eventually every other day). They are also being FORCED BY CONTRACT to change their lifestyle outside of the football operations under penalty of losing $$$. In addition, if you saw the 13-minute video yesterday, the mask wearing and social distance requirements are being strictly enforced. I don't think it is outrageous to say that YOU are now more at risk than the player.
(2) I'm on record multiple times saying that football players are more likely to spread this (if they are infected) than any other athlete (outside of MMA).
So what am I saying that you find "wacky'?
I’ll send a response later (after I drag my way through these interminable zoom meetings). Big fan of BBI, a big part of my daily routine for what, 15 years? Progressively more bummed out about your dialogue and reliably one-sided dialogues on covid issues though — which is strongly impacting my feelings about the site. Not that anyone is going to miss my boring, rarely read golf and food posts anyway lol. Anywho, will try to do some sparring later, and thanks for years and years of great football coverage.
was still here to chime in. He interacted with the players and often gave us the viewpoint from the non star players talking about them as people rather than assets.
Al, If you want I can write 7 paragraphs of flowery stuff for gold old nostalgia:)
followed all sports on this. Are there any examples of any athletes suffering permanent damage? I don't recall seeing any.
There's a 27 year old pitcher for Boston who got it, recovered, but still has heart inflammation. Boston won't pass his physical and won't let him return.
followed all sports on this. Are there any examples of any athletes suffering permanent damage? I don't recall seeing any.
There's a 27 year old pitcher for Boston who got it, recovered, but still has heart inflammation. Boston won't pass his physical and won't let him return.
Nick Cordero was a 41 year old Broadway Actor/Dancer, very fit. He was hospitalized for 3 months.
After he was initially sedated in the ICU for 18 days, his leg was amputated. He also went into septic shock, had a lung infection and had a temporary pacemaker put in. He was slated for a double lung transplant when he passed away.
Sure, most recover. Some don't even get hit with harsh symptoms. But for some people, it's a death sentence, for others it leaves a lifetime of issues to deal with.
A close friend of mine - 51, in decent health wound up with a scarred lung after a 2-week bout with it. He has no idea how he caught it, was taking all the precautions, both he and his wife teleworking 100%.
My family, we're hunkered down and being extremely conservative with our approach. Just brought in a load of groceries - we sanitize every item before it comes in the house.
Can't wait for the day it's over, but I don't think that's for a long time.
There are plenty of everyday people who are essential employees who are risking their health. Some of these people are dying.
So comparatively speaking, a football player not returning to form, that's pretty low on the priority list. At least athletes have the option of making a decision to opt out (and still get paid).
Some essential employees don't have that option and need to work to support their families.
There are plenty of everyday people who are essential employees who are risking their health. Some of these people are dying.
So comparatively speaking, a football player not returning to form, that's pretty low on the priority list. At least athletes have the option of making a decision to opt out (and still get paid).
Some essential employees don't have that option and need to work to support their families.
There is absolutely no need for anyone that plays a professional sport to risk their entire careers to play a sport in a pandemic. Especially in a situation where they are more at risk because of the number of people they have to be in close quarters too.
On top of that sports is simply entertainment. We absolutely don’t need it.
The essential works “should” be working on safer conditions. My mother-in-law Is an essential worker and his worked every week of the pandemic and is an at risk age bracket. Do I wish she didn’t have to do that, hell’s yes, but I’m glad that her employer does the things to keep her safe and took some of her feedback to make them safer.
There are plenty of everyday people who are essential employees who are risking their health. Some of these people are dying.
So comparatively speaking, a football player not returning to form, that's pretty low on the priority list. At least athletes have the option of making a decision to opt out (and still get paid).
Some essential employees don't have that option and need to work to support their families.
There is absolutely no need for anyone that plays a professional sport to risk their entire careers to play a sport in a pandemic. Especially in a situation where they are more at risk because of the number of people they have to be in close quarters to.
On top of that sports is simply entertainment. We absolutely don’t need it.
I dont follow the point about "need." Most have 5-7 year careers and want to get paid this year. I dont think any of us have the right to tell someone else they don't have a right to work and earn income. Its just not our place, in fact its very controlling and frightening that anyone would think that way. Especially when the data shows its low risk of a bad outcome. Risk well below "acceptable" risks such as CTE, permanent limps and back pain from knee and other injuries, etc.
On the OPs question - No one is reporting to camp for altruistic reasons - so why should fans feel guilty if someone has that rare bad outcome?? And they've all been given the opportunity to opt-out ... and still get paid anyway which was an incredibly nice gesture by the owners.
The reality is, generally speaking of course, the sports leagues arent creating more risks for these players than they've already willingly accepted in their personal lives. Some Rams player just had a 300 person house party, as just one crazy example. Eduardo Rodriguez, the scary story cited as Exhibit A above .... wasnt infected during a game or practice, it was before camp. Their risks arent "Zero" if they dont play, and so everyone needs to make their own personal choice on what's best for them.
Did someone mention losing our franchise QB due to long term
effects due to COVID? Uhh can someone point to me the scenario where he doesn't come back. I thought this thread alluded to some of the heart and lung damage that they are still hypothesizing can occur. Why would this affect you all that much at QB?
Then we have the other side of the coin. That is a very tough argument you are making that these guys are safer. Some will be, due to their ignorance I'm sure and they'd probably spend a lot of time partying. Many others that are worried and taking precautions will be much more in danger. And yes its danger, some of these guys are obese.
I seriously wonder if we are going to see a serious hospitalization or two among some of these lineman. There are going to be outbreaks on teams, even with these precautions. I'd imagine there is a time from picking up COVID before onset of it becoming obvious on test. It's not like you pick something up and it's immediately obvious on a test. I think there needs to be an onset of symptoms and time for your body to react to test positive. I could be wrong though, maybe Bill L can chime in.
effects due to COVID? Uhh can someone point to me the scenario where he doesn't come back. I thought this thread alluded to some of the heart and lung damage that they are still hypothesizing can occur. Why would this affect you all that much at QB?
Then we have the other side of the coin. That is a very tough argument you are making that these guys are safer. Some will be, due to their ignorance I'm sure and they'd probably spend a lot of time partying. Many others that are worried and taking precautions will be much more in danger. And yes its danger, some of these guys are obese.
I seriously wonder if we are going to see a serious hospitalization or two among some of these lineman. There are going to be outbreaks on teams, even with these precautions. I'd imagine there is a time from picking up COVID before onset of it becoming obvious on test. It's not like you pick something up and it's immediately obvious on a test. I think there needs to be an onset of symptoms and time for your body to react to test positive. I could be wrong though, maybe Bill L can chime in.
If you can’t breathe you can’t play qb. I’m also fairly certain if you have a serious heart condition you shouldn’t play football either.
But the thing with football is it’s a dangerous game, if you’re not prepared as a fan that your favorite player can end their career on any given play, you’re fooling yourself.
Terrell Thomas, Steve Smith and David Wilson to name a few had injuries and in the blink of an eye were either gone or not themselves. I don’t even want to bring up Jason Seahorn.
Does the Covid thing add another layer of risk? Yes. Was there enough risk before where this should be something fans are prepared to handle. Yes. Football is a dangerous sport with or without Covid.
So losing a potential Franchise QB, one of the players that is hardest to fine because we forced a season in a Pandemic doesn’t potential piss you off.
Blowing out a knee can happen and is a risk is taken every time a player plays. It is not however preventable. COVID is if you take the right precautions.
Having 50+ people gather together at anytime right now is a risk that does not need to be taken even in a state that has the spread managed. It’s just asking for an outbreak.
I like the core of our players and would absolutely hate to see someone (or anyone) no longer be able to play at a high level because they got COVID being around other players.
These guys are tested constantly and multiple safety precautions are taken. The other half is accountability on their end to not do stupid things (like go to a strip club after a game Marlins). I’d hate to see any player get hurt or sick but that doesn’t change that there is always a risk, specifically one they know when they show up to work.
There are plenty of everyday people who are essential employees who are risking their health. Some of these people are dying.
So comparatively speaking, a football player not returning to form, that's pretty low on the priority list. At least athletes have the option of making a decision to opt out (and still get paid).
Some essential employees don't have that option and need to work to support their families.
There is absolutely no need for anyone that plays a professional sport to risk their entire careers to play a sport in a pandemic. Especially in a situation where they are more at risk because of the number of people they have to be in close quarters too.
On top of that sports is simply entertainment. We absolutely don’t need it.
The essential works “should” be working on safer conditions. My mother-in-law Is an essential worker and his worked every week of the pandemic and is an at risk age bracket. Do I wish she didn’t have to do that, hell’s yes, but I’m glad that her employer does the things to keep her safe and took some of her feedback to make them safer.
I kind of agree with the next post down that if they are comfortable with the risks, I am not going to have too much heartburn over it if they get injured. Their choice, their consequences. It would be a different scenario if they were forced to play.
On your last point, the protocols the NFL is implementing are hopefully making it safer for the players to do their jobs. I think the NFL is taking notes on some of the lessons learned from the MLB, NBA, NHL restarts.
The problem isn't the environment insomuch as the sport itself. Look how it's spreading in MLB - the most minimal contact major sport. NFL linemen literally wrestle, sweat, breathe heavily, yell and spit all over one another on every single play. If one lineman has it, 100% certainty both lines will have it by game's end.
It is believed, though no one can know for sure i suppose, that it is spreading on baseball teams because of off-the-field activity and disregard for social distancing and masking guidelines. Manfred said "the players have to be better" this week - he could of course be spinning things for his benefit, but based on the stories of Marlins at bars and strip clubs and Cardinals gambling and partying in Minneapolis... I'm inclined to believe him.
Scientists a lot more brilliant than me developed helmets that is supposed to help reduce transmission on the field... we'll see... the far bigger risk to the NFL this year is Rams and other players throwing 300 person parties to 'blow off steam' during the week, than what happens on the field, IMO
Blowing out a knee can happen and is a risk is taken every time a player plays. It is not however preventable. COVID is if you take the right precautions.
Interesting logic.
Covid is preventable .... if they dont play this season.
In contrast, blowing out a knee is not preventable (of course... it is .... if you dont play this season)
Sterling Shepard immediately comes to mind. He's one more hit to the head to probably being done.
Sterling Shepard is absolutely someone who should consider punting on the season. He's a hit from retirement, no use taking that hit in a season like this.
and playing then staying home, they are being tested every day and soon every other day, guys who have no idea they have it would then know they have it and stay away from family members..
Whether you play or not you are still living your normal life and in theory anyone on the field doesnt have it
The whole thing is a risk - just because there's still a lot we don't seem to know about the after-effects of the virus. It seems that most folks will recover fully without residual effects. But, we have players like Eduardo Rodriguez, who was mentioned by a few people earlier in the thread - with a residual heart issue. He's expected to recover fully, but it's enough of a problem that it has ended his 2020 season.
Luis Cessa (NYY reliever) said he felt like he was having a little trouble breathing when he first started throwing bullpens again after recovering. He says he's gotten back to normal or is getting there since, but again... there's just a lot we don't know and won't know for some time.
I personally don't know if the NFL season makes it through. I just think the nature of the sport is such that it'll be very hard to contain spread once it begins. The initial intake numbers look good - surprisingly good, actually. But, there's no guarantee it holds.
I think the odds of a player winding up suffering career-altering effects from COVID are almost surely very, very low. Low enough that I think I'd be comfortable allowing them to play the season. Again, I just think it's going to be tough to make work.
MLB actually had zero new player cases today and they're doing travel unlike NBA/NHL where they're bubbled in a hub city/cities. So, I think if players follow protocol and the league has its ducks in a row, it can work and I am not personally worried about serious long-term effects from the virus in the players - but, obviously those aren't the only people who are at risk.
There will be other personnel around teams. For someone like Dave Gettleman to get the virus could be really dangerous, obviously. So, it's tricky. I know Dave won't be traveling with the team and it's a random example, but there are going to be other older folks who might be more at risk who will be involved in certain team/stadium tasks.
I think just with the nature of football being what it is, there's already so much inherent risk. It would be hard for me to say I am okay watching football in a normal year where a young man can be forever changed if he takes a hit in the wrong spot - which we've seen in this league several times over - but turn around and say that I am not okay with players taking on the risk of COVID. That just wouldn't be consistent logic.
This is a good point. One could argue they might be safer in the controlled environment.
Quote:
In the off-season. No way to know who would get it if there's a season vs not.
This is a good point. One could argue they might be safer in the controlled environment.
not only this, and I haven't seen the NFL/NFLPA agreement, but some pro sports the players had to agree to adhere to very specific standards of protection and guidelines and if they breach any of these and it results in COVID they forfeit their pay.
So, I agree, they might be better off than the general population or if they were to opt out/cancel the season.
I think I read about a pitcher for the red sox being shutdown for the season with a heart issue related to covid.
Quote:
In the off-season. No way to know who would get it if there's a season vs not.
This is a good point. One could argue they might be safer in the controlled environment.
The problem isn't the environment insomuch as the sport itself. Look how it's spreading in MLB - the most minimal contact major sport. NFL linemen literally wrestle, sweat, breathe heavily, yell and spit all over one another on every single play. If one lineman has it, 100% certainty both lines will have it by game's end.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. All the books we read and movies we saw about Pandemic's - I don't recall a single story that had this *damn the torpedoes* approach.
2020 sucks.
Red Sox pitcher Eduardo Rodriguez has a heart issue (myocarditis)
As for your original question, I dont think it matters what level the player is. It will be very sad. But at the same time, life needs to start happening again. Everyone needs to start getting back to work and take as much precautions as needed. While football isn't essential, this is a business. If they dont play this season the financial impact will be felt for a long time and the players may not have a league to come back to. They built in an opt out for the players and while a guy like OBJ complains he still wants his check.
Many people are out of work but would go back in a heartbeat because they need money. Players need money.
I'm not sure I can answer a question about permanency in a disease that's 6 months old.
I know of at least one player on the Red Sox who has myocarditis from COVID-19 and is out for the year. What will happen beyond that is anyone's guess.
Quote:
In comment 14944214 YAJ2112 said:
Quote:
In the off-season. No way to know who would get it if there's a season vs not.
This is a good point. One could argue they might be safer in the controlled environment.
The problem isn't the environment insomuch as the sport itself. Look how it's spreading in MLB - the most minimal contact major sport. NFL linemen literally wrestle, sweat, breathe heavily, yell and spit all over one another on every single play. If one lineman has it, 100% certainty both lines will have it by game's end.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. All the books we read and movies we saw about Pandemic's - I don't recall a single story that had this *damn the torpedoes* approach.
2020 sucks.
Maybe because none of the would-be authors were around to write one?
As for your original question, I dont think it matters what level the player is. It will be very sad. But at the same time, life needs to start happening again. Everyone needs to start getting back to work and take as much precautions as needed. While football isn't essential, this is a business. If they dont play this season the financial impact will be felt for a long time and the players may not have a league to come back to. They built in an opt out for the players and while a guy like OBJ complains he still wants his check.
Many people are out of work but would go back in a heartbeat because they need money. Players need money.
That's not even close to true. Novel means exactly what it says.
Terrell Thomas, Steve Smith and David Wilson to name a few had injuries and in the blink of an eye were either gone or not themselves. I don’t even want to bring up Jason Seahorn.
Does the Covid thing add another layer of risk? Yes. Was there enough risk before where this should be something fans are prepared to handle. Yes. Football is a dangerous sport with or without Covid.
At the same time, pandemic books/movies usually don't have the general population shopping at the grocery store, dropping their kids off at day care, or getting hair cuts either. Those people are all dead in the books/movies.
What's going to be fascinating to watch is if the NFL actually cancels games like MLB. That would rapidly turn the season into a joke.
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
With roughly 2,600 players currently on rosters, that’s about 3.5% that have landed on the Reserve/COVID-19 list for any reason (positive test/close contact). It’s early, but the numbers are lower than many expected during initial screening.
Some COVID-19 context, from @NFLResearch:
— 90 players have been on the reserve list.
— 35 players have been activated from the list, with Jaguars CB Parry Nickerson being the latest.
— 67 of the 90 players put on the Reserve/COVID-19 list are 25 years old or younger.
Terrell Thomas, Steve Smith and David Wilson to name a few had injuries and in the blink of an eye were either gone or not themselves. I don’t even want to bring up Jason Seahorn.
Does the Covid thing add another layer of risk? Yes. Was there enough risk before where this should be something fans are prepared to handle. Yes. Football is a dangerous sport with or without Covid.
So losing a potential Franchise QB, one of the players that is hardest to fine because we forced a season in a Pandemic doesn’t potential piss you off.
Blowing out a knee can happen and is a risk is taken every time a player plays. It is not however preventable. COVID is if you take the right precautions.
Having 50+ people gather together at anytime right now is a risk that does not need to be taken even in a state that has the spread managed. It’s just asking for an outbreak.
I like the core of our players and would absolutely hate to see someone (or anyone) no longer be able to play at a high level because they got COVID being around other players.
Quote:
But the thing with football is it’s a dangerous game, if you’re not prepared as a fan that your favorite player can end their career on any given play, you’re fooling yourself.
Terrell Thomas, Steve Smith and David Wilson to name a few had injuries and in the blink of an eye were either gone or not themselves. I don’t even want to bring up Jason Seahorn.
Does the Covid thing add another layer of risk? Yes. Was there enough risk before where this should be something fans are prepared to handle. Yes. Football is a dangerous sport with or without Covid.
So losing a potential Franchise QB, one of the players that is hardest to fine because we forced a season in a Pandemic doesn’t potential piss you off.
Blowing out a knee can happen and is a risk is taken every time a player plays. It is not however preventable. COVID is if you take the right precautions.
Having 50+ people gather together at anytime right now is a risk that does not need to be taken even in a state that has the spread managed. It’s just asking for an outbreak.
I like the core of our players and would absolutely hate to see someone (or anyone) no longer be able to play at a high level because they got COVID being around other players.
IMO playing with COVID risks is closer to forcing a game in a hurricane or in a lightning storm than the knee injury risk.
a little IMO.
Sterling Shepard immediately comes to mind. He's one more hit to the head to probably being done.
At that points it’s Que Sera, Sera
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In the off-season. No way to know who would get it if there's a season vs not.
At this point, I’m mostly tuning into the site to read the site owner’s increasingly wacky and dug-in analyses on covid issues. Yes, playing group contact sports and traveling with groups of 60 or 70 plus to play other groups of strangers (and interacting with all of the people tangentially related to this travel) from different geographic locations is probably safer. No more risky than the grocery store. Good thinkin’!
This is a good point. One could argue they might be safer in the controlled environment.
I believe there's a strong likelihood it won't be possible to complete a season at all.
Keep in mind, this is summer. Football is in high-flu season.
Also eye-opening is the scandal at Colorado State - will any of that sort of unethical management happen in the NFL?
Given all of that - no, it isn't worth risking high value players. I'd like to see at least Jones and Barkley sit out the season.
(1) These players are getting tested daily (an eventually every other day). They are also being FORCED BY CONTRACT to change their lifestyle outside of the football operations under penalty of losing $$$. In addition, if you saw the 13-minute video yesterday, the mask wearing and social distance requirements are being strictly enforced. I don't think it is outrageous to say that YOU are now more at risk than the player.
(2) I'm on record multiple times saying that football players are more likely to spread this (if they are infected) than any other athlete (outside of MMA).
So what am I saying that you find "wacky'?
Also yes footballs already dangerous, but a players wife or kids can’t catch a concussion or a torn acl from them, but they could catch covid.
(1) These players are getting tested daily (an eventually every other day). They are also being FORCED BY CONTRACT to change their lifestyle outside of the football operations under penalty of losing $$$. In addition, if you saw the 13-minute video yesterday, the mask wearing and social distance requirements are being strictly enforced. I don't think it is outrageous to say that YOU are now more at risk than the player.
(2) I'm on record multiple times saying that football players are more likely to spread this (if they are infected) than any other athlete (outside of MMA).
So what am I saying that you find "wacky'?
I’ll send a response later (after I drag my way through these interminable zoom meetings). Big fan of BBI, a big part of my daily routine for what, 15 years? Progressively more bummed out about your dialogue and reliably one-sided dialogues on covid issues though — which is strongly impacting my feelings about the site. Not that anyone is going to miss my boring, rarely read golf and food posts anyway lol. Anywho, will try to do some sparring later, and thanks for years and years of great football coverage.
Al, If you want I can write 7 paragraphs of flowery stuff for gold old nostalgia:)
There's a 27 year old pitcher for Boston who got it, recovered, but still has heart inflammation. Boston won't pass his physical and won't let him return.
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followed all sports on this. Are there any examples of any athletes suffering permanent damage? I don't recall seeing any.
There's a 27 year old pitcher for Boston who got it, recovered, but still has heart inflammation. Boston won't pass his physical and won't let him return.
After he was initially sedated in the ICU for 18 days, his leg was amputated. He also went into septic shock, had a lung infection and had a temporary pacemaker put in. He was slated for a double lung transplant when he passed away.
Sure, most recover. Some don't even get hit with harsh symptoms. But for some people, it's a death sentence, for others it leaves a lifetime of issues to deal with.
A close friend of mine - 51, in decent health wound up with a scarred lung after a 2-week bout with it. He has no idea how he caught it, was taking all the precautions, both he and his wife teleworking 100%.
My family, we're hunkered down and being extremely conservative with our approach. Just brought in a load of groceries - we sanitize every item before it comes in the house.
Can't wait for the day it's over, but I don't think that's for a long time.
So comparatively speaking, a football player not returning to form, that's pretty low on the priority list. At least athletes have the option of making a decision to opt out (and still get paid).
Some essential employees don't have that option and need to work to support their families.
So comparatively speaking, a football player not returning to form, that's pretty low on the priority list. At least athletes have the option of making a decision to opt out (and still get paid).
Some essential employees don't have that option and need to work to support their families.
There is absolutely no need for anyone that plays a professional sport to risk their entire careers to play a sport in a pandemic. Especially in a situation where they are more at risk because of the number of people they have to be in close quarters too.
On top of that sports is simply entertainment. We absolutely don’t need it.
The essential works “should” be working on safer conditions. My mother-in-law Is an essential worker and his worked every week of the pandemic and is an at risk age bracket. Do I wish she didn’t have to do that, hell’s yes, but I’m glad that her employer does the things to keep her safe and took some of her feedback to make them safer.
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There are plenty of everyday people who are essential employees who are risking their health. Some of these people are dying.
So comparatively speaking, a football player not returning to form, that's pretty low on the priority list. At least athletes have the option of making a decision to opt out (and still get paid).
Some essential employees don't have that option and need to work to support their families.
There is absolutely no need for anyone that plays a professional sport to risk their entire careers to play a sport in a pandemic. Especially in a situation where they are more at risk because of the number of people they have to be in close quarters to.
On top of that sports is simply entertainment. We absolutely don’t need it.
I dont follow the point about "need." Most have 5-7 year careers and want to get paid this year. I dont think any of us have the right to tell someone else they don't have a right to work and earn income. Its just not our place, in fact its very controlling and frightening that anyone would think that way. Especially when the data shows its low risk of a bad outcome. Risk well below "acceptable" risks such as CTE, permanent limps and back pain from knee and other injuries, etc.
On the OPs question - No one is reporting to camp for altruistic reasons - so why should fans feel guilty if someone has that rare bad outcome?? And they've all been given the opportunity to opt-out ... and still get paid anyway which was an incredibly nice gesture by the owners.
The reality is, generally speaking of course, the sports leagues arent creating more risks for these players than they've already willingly accepted in their personal lives. Some Rams player just had a 300 person house party, as just one crazy example. Eduardo Rodriguez, the scary story cited as Exhibit A above .... wasnt infected during a game or practice, it was before camp. Their risks arent "Zero" if they dont play, and so everyone needs to make their own personal choice on what's best for them.
Then we have the other side of the coin. That is a very tough argument you are making that these guys are safer. Some will be, due to their ignorance I'm sure and they'd probably spend a lot of time partying. Many others that are worried and taking precautions will be much more in danger. And yes its danger, some of these guys are obese.
I seriously wonder if we are going to see a serious hospitalization or two among some of these lineman. There are going to be outbreaks on teams, even with these precautions. I'd imagine there is a time from picking up COVID before onset of it becoming obvious on test. It's not like you pick something up and it's immediately obvious on a test. I think there needs to be an onset of symptoms and time for your body to react to test positive. I could be wrong though, maybe Bill L can chime in.
Then we have the other side of the coin. That is a very tough argument you are making that these guys are safer. Some will be, due to their ignorance I'm sure and they'd probably spend a lot of time partying. Many others that are worried and taking precautions will be much more in danger. And yes its danger, some of these guys are obese.
I seriously wonder if we are going to see a serious hospitalization or two among some of these lineman. There are going to be outbreaks on teams, even with these precautions. I'd imagine there is a time from picking up COVID before onset of it becoming obvious on test. It's not like you pick something up and it's immediately obvious on a test. I think there needs to be an onset of symptoms and time for your body to react to test positive. I could be wrong though, maybe Bill L can chime in.
If you can’t breathe you can’t play qb. I’m also fairly certain if you have a serious heart condition you shouldn’t play football either.
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But the thing with football is it’s a dangerous game, if you’re not prepared as a fan that your favorite player can end their career on any given play, you’re fooling yourself.
Terrell Thomas, Steve Smith and David Wilson to name a few had injuries and in the blink of an eye were either gone or not themselves. I don’t even want to bring up Jason Seahorn.
Does the Covid thing add another layer of risk? Yes. Was there enough risk before where this should be something fans are prepared to handle. Yes. Football is a dangerous sport with or without Covid.
So losing a potential Franchise QB, one of the players that is hardest to fine because we forced a season in a Pandemic doesn’t potential piss you off.
Blowing out a knee can happen and is a risk is taken every time a player plays. It is not however preventable. COVID is if you take the right precautions.
Having 50+ people gather together at anytime right now is a risk that does not need to be taken even in a state that has the spread managed. It’s just asking for an outbreak.
I like the core of our players and would absolutely hate to see someone (or anyone) no longer be able to play at a high level because they got COVID being around other players.
These guys are tested constantly and multiple safety precautions are taken. The other half is accountability on their end to not do stupid things (like go to a strip club after a game Marlins). I’d hate to see any player get hurt or sick but that doesn’t change that there is always a risk, specifically one they know when they show up to work.
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There are plenty of everyday people who are essential employees who are risking their health. Some of these people are dying.
So comparatively speaking, a football player not returning to form, that's pretty low on the priority list. At least athletes have the option of making a decision to opt out (and still get paid).
Some essential employees don't have that option and need to work to support their families.
There is absolutely no need for anyone that plays a professional sport to risk their entire careers to play a sport in a pandemic. Especially in a situation where they are more at risk because of the number of people they have to be in close quarters too.
On top of that sports is simply entertainment. We absolutely don’t need it.
The essential works “should” be working on safer conditions. My mother-in-law Is an essential worker and his worked every week of the pandemic and is an at risk age bracket. Do I wish she didn’t have to do that, hell’s yes, but I’m glad that her employer does the things to keep her safe and took some of her feedback to make them safer.
I kind of agree with the next post down that if they are comfortable with the risks, I am not going to have too much heartburn over it if they get injured. Their choice, their consequences. It would be a different scenario if they were forced to play.
On your last point, the protocols the NFL is implementing are hopefully making it safer for the players to do their jobs. I think the NFL is taking notes on some of the lessons learned from the MLB, NBA, NHL restarts.
The problem isn't the environment insomuch as the sport itself. Look how it's spreading in MLB - the most minimal contact major sport. NFL linemen literally wrestle, sweat, breathe heavily, yell and spit all over one another on every single play. If one lineman has it, 100% certainty both lines will have it by game's end.
It is believed, though no one can know for sure i suppose, that it is spreading on baseball teams because of off-the-field activity and disregard for social distancing and masking guidelines. Manfred said "the players have to be better" this week - he could of course be spinning things for his benefit, but based on the stories of Marlins at bars and strip clubs and Cardinals gambling and partying in Minneapolis... I'm inclined to believe him.
Scientists a lot more brilliant than me developed helmets that is supposed to help reduce transmission on the field... we'll see... the far bigger risk to the NFL this year is Rams and other players throwing 300 person parties to 'blow off steam' during the week, than what happens on the field, IMO
Blowing out a knee can happen and is a risk is taken every time a player plays. It is not however preventable. COVID is if you take the right precautions.
Interesting logic.
Covid is preventable .... if they dont play this season.
In contrast, blowing out a knee is not preventable (of course... it is .... if you dont play this season)
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Type of career ending or limiting injury
Sterling Shepard immediately comes to mind. He's one more hit to the head to probably being done.
Sterling Shepard is absolutely someone who should consider punting on the season. He's a hit from retirement, no use taking that hit in a season like this.
Whether you play or not you are still living your normal life and in theory anyone on the field doesnt have it
Luis Cessa (NYY reliever) said he felt like he was having a little trouble breathing when he first started throwing bullpens again after recovering. He says he's gotten back to normal or is getting there since, but again... there's just a lot we don't know and won't know for some time.
I personally don't know if the NFL season makes it through. I just think the nature of the sport is such that it'll be very hard to contain spread once it begins. The initial intake numbers look good - surprisingly good, actually. But, there's no guarantee it holds.
I think the odds of a player winding up suffering career-altering effects from COVID are almost surely very, very low. Low enough that I think I'd be comfortable allowing them to play the season. Again, I just think it's going to be tough to make work.
MLB actually had zero new player cases today and they're doing travel unlike NBA/NHL where they're bubbled in a hub city/cities. So, I think if players follow protocol and the league has its ducks in a row, it can work and I am not personally worried about serious long-term effects from the virus in the players - but, obviously those aren't the only people who are at risk.
There will be other personnel around teams. For someone like Dave Gettleman to get the virus could be really dangerous, obviously. So, it's tricky. I know Dave won't be traveling with the team and it's a random example, but there are going to be other older folks who might be more at risk who will be involved in certain team/stadium tasks.
I think just with the nature of football being what it is, there's already so much inherent risk. It would be hard for me to say I am okay watching football in a normal year where a young man can be forever changed if he takes a hit in the wrong spot - which we've seen in this league several times over - but turn around and say that I am not okay with players taking on the risk of COVID. That just wouldn't be consistent logic.