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If a NYG star player gets COVID and can’t return to

BigBlueDownTheShore : 8/5/2020 10:42 am
Peak form and has to end his career early, how are you going to feel about it? Would it be worth the risk of trying to get a season in this year?
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RE: RE: Jim from Katonah  
MetsAreBack : 8/5/2020 11:42 pm : link
In comment 14944326 Jim from Katonah said:
Quote:
In comment 14944301 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


I don't think you are thinking this through and/or really understanding me.

(1) These players are getting tested daily (an eventually every other day). They are also being FORCED BY CONTRACT to change their lifestyle outside of the football operations under penalty of losing $$$. In addition, if you saw the 13-minute video yesterday, the mask wearing and social distance requirements are being strictly enforced. I don't think it is outrageous to say that YOU are now more at risk than the player.

(2) I'm on record multiple times saying that football players are more likely to spread this (if they are infected) than any other athlete (outside of MMA).

So what am I saying that you find "wacky'?



I’ll send a response later (after I drag my way through these interminable zoom meetings). Big fan of BBI, a big part of my daily routine for what, 15 years? Progressively more bummed out about your dialogue and reliably one-sided dialogues on covid issues though — which is strongly impacting my feelings about the site. Not that anyone is going to miss my boring, rarely read golf and food posts anyway lol. Anywho, will try to do some sparring later, and thanks for years and years of great football coverage.


These are odd posts. You are on record for months here Earlier in the year of being very dismissive of this pandemic. Nothing to worry about type posts. Eric hasn’t said anything in this thread at least that was remotely ‘fake news’ — not sure if there has been stuff in other threads ...
RE: Shepard should retire tomorrow.  
Tuckrule : 8/6/2020 7:41 am : link
In comment 14944667 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Yeah, it would suck for us as Giants fans, but I'm worried about that man's long term health.


+1. New father. He should rethink his career. I know if I’m him I’d retire. Looks at keuchlys concussion history and then take a look at sterling. Very very similar
RE: Did someone mention losing our franchise QB due to long term  
x meadowlander : 8/6/2020 8:01 am : link
In comment 14944583 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
effects due to COVID? Uhh can someone point to me the scenario where he doesn't come back. I thought this thread alluded to some of the heart and lung damage that they are still hypothesizing can occur. Why would this affect you all that much at QB?
It's a good point really - I mean, what pussy can't man up and play NFL seasons with a little heart and lung damage? Even a transplanted lung or 2 - I mean, you still can breathe, right? Same goes for the amputations - fingers - I mean, you have 2 hands, right - and the legs - they do incredible things with prosthetics. Think of how cool it would be so see legs go flying in the air when sacked? I was definitely underthinking it - thanks for setting us straight.
People are really setting up total strawmen that don't exist here.  
Zeke's Alibi : 8/6/2020 8:13 am : link
Just because there is some lung damage or heart damage doesn't turn you into a complete invalid.
RE: RE: Did someone mention losing our franchise QB due to long term  
MetsAreBack : 8/6/2020 8:20 am : link
In comment 14944848 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
In comment 14944583 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


effects due to COVID? Uhh can someone point to me the scenario where he doesn't come back. I thought this thread alluded to some of the heart and lung damage that they are still hypothesizing can occur. Why would this affect you all that much at QB?


It's a good point really - I mean, what pussy can't man up and play NFL seasons with a little heart and lung damage? Even a transplanted lung or 2 - I mean, you still can breathe, right? Same goes for the amputations - fingers - I mean, you have 2 hands, right - and the legs - they do incredible things with prosthetics. Think of how cool it would be so see legs go flying in the air when sacked? I was definitely underthinking it - thanks for setting us straight.


Can you share the data with us -- % transplanted lungs or % amputations... as % of total Covid infections and % of total population base in the age bracket 19-40?

Thanks in advance.

Otherwise this was a lot of diarrhea of the mouth...
160000 Dead Americans so far...  
x meadowlander : 8/6/2020 8:36 am : link
...in 5 months.

Yeah, diarrhea of the mouth is right.
RE: 160000 Dead Americans so far...  
MetsAreBack : 8/6/2020 8:40 am : link
In comment 14944861 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
...in 5 months.

Yeah, diarrhea of the mouth is right.


You didnt answer the question, just more fear mongering based on mostly senior citizen data. Not worth discussion, you havent been doing your homework.
PS  
MetsAreBack : 8/6/2020 8:41 am : link
there are 330 million Americans and 3 million per year die from various causes. All tragic. The show will and should go on for the younger, healthier population - your temper tantrums aside.
so what is an exceptable count for you?  
Bill L : 8/6/2020 8:42 am : link
and can you name names?
Actually, a serious question...  
Bill L : 8/6/2020 8:44 am : link
who don't they play games in hurricanes or in full lightning storms?
RE: PS  
x meadowlander : 8/6/2020 8:56 am : link
In comment 14944865 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
there are 330 million Americans and 3 million per year die from various causes. All tragic. The show will and should go on for the younger, healthier population - your temper tantrums aside.
the #1 killer of Americans right now is CoVid. I'm not willing to *sacrifice* anyone.

I find this line of thinking to be craven and disgusting. Young people spread it same as old.
RE: RE: PS  
Lines of Scrimmage : 8/6/2020 9:09 am : link
In comment 14944869 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
In comment 14944865 MetsAreBack said:


Quote:


there are 330 million Americans and 3 million per year die from various causes. All tragic. The show will and should go on for the younger, healthier population - your temper tantrums aside.

the #1 killer of Americans right now is CoVid. I'm not willing to *sacrifice* anyone.

I find this line of thinking to be craven and disgusting. Young people spread it same as old.


How many kids have died from Covid under 16? How many kids are being killed in our cities from senseless shootings?

I do not understand all this arguing over the players. They are making a choice to play or not play and if they choose not they are still being paid more than the vast majority of people in the workforce. Any other profession being given this choice?
RE: People are really setting up total strawmen that don't exist here.  
Harvest Blend : 8/6/2020 9:10 am : link
In comment 14944852 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
Just because there is some lung damage or heart damage doesn't turn you into a complete invalid.


lol. Deal with it. It is what it is.
RE: Its still the players  
Gatorade Dunk : 8/6/2020 9:21 am : link
In comment 14944279 Bubba said:
Quote:
choice, no? Besides covid = career ending? Reaching
a little IMO.

You don't know that.

A few months ago, the most common thinking on Covid was that it was a respiratory disease. Now we know that it's vascular with strong respiratory symptoms.

This virus is not even a year old yet. Imagine what else we'll know with the benefit of time.
RE: RE: PS  
MetsAreBack : 8/6/2020 10:10 am : link
In comment 14944869 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
In comment 14944865 MetsAreBack said:


Quote:


there are 330 million Americans and 3 million per year die from various causes. All tragic. The show will and should go on for the younger, healthier population - your temper tantrums aside.

the #1 killer of Americans right now is CoVid. I'm not willing to *sacrifice* anyone.



That is absolutely false, and its not even close. I respect a lot of people's opinions on this board about taking a cautious approach - Bill L, kicker, CiP and many others - you dont fall in that camp. You're completely paranoid and devoid of facts and data in your takes.
RE: RE: RE: PS  
x meadowlander : 8/6/2020 11:10 am : link
In comment 14944899 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
In comment 14944869 x meadowlander said:


Quote:


In comment 14944865 MetsAreBack said:


Quote:


there are 330 million Americans and 3 million per year die from various causes. All tragic. The show will and should go on for the younger, healthier population - your temper tantrums aside.

the #1 killer of Americans right now is CoVid. I'm not willing to *sacrifice* anyone.





That is absolutely false, and its not even close. I respect a lot of people's opinions on this board about taking a cautious approach - Bill L, kicker, CiP and many others - you dont fall in that camp. You're completely paranoid and devoid of facts and data in your takes.
160,000 deaths is current and accurate. Estimates have CoVid as a top-3 leading cause of death, without considering excess mortality.

I have a household with hospital staff in it, family and friends are healthcare professionals. None of them take it as lightly as your reckless stance.
I remember the COVID thread back in March..  
Sean : 8/6/2020 11:08 pm : link
A lot of us (myself included) talked about how nice Memorial Day weekend would be with the pandemic behind us. That was 5 months ago and we are still mostly in the same position now.

Why not try to have a football season? The NBA/NHL has been going very well. MLB has gone well aside of 2 outbreaks.
RE: RE: RE: RE: PS  
MetsAreBack : 8/6/2020 11:12 pm : link
In comment 14944935 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
I have a household with hospital staff in it, family and friends are healthcare professionals. None of them take it as lightly as your reckless stance.


You continuously look to expand the discussion beyond the scope of this thread and what’s allowed on BBI. Your deferral to authority in the ‘Medical’ household is noted - I know doctors too amazing I know! - and one could easily argue all professional sports leagues have reopened this year so that means they’re all ‘reckless’ in your view... moving on

You remain way way to high level on this subject matter. Of course it’s a serious matter especially for those at higher age and with underlying health issues. We all knew that. Anything else from 5 Months ago to bring to the debate?

Let’s get back on topic - please support your stance that Daniel Jones will need not one but two lung transplants if he plays this season. Case studies, age based metrics, cold hard statistics, anything other than your gutt?

Separately, glad upon further your review covid went from the biggest killer in the US to after called on that ... it might be in the top 3. We’re making progress on your bullshit.


RE: RE: RE: Plenty of players got covid  
Azul Grande : 8/7/2020 2:39 am : link
In comment 14944247 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
In comment 14944242 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


In comment 14944214 YAJ2112 said:


Quote:


In the off-season. No way to know who would get it if there's a season vs not.



This is a good point. One could argue they might be safer in the controlled environment.



The problem isn't the environment insomuch as the sport itself. Look how it's spreading in MLB - the most minimal contact major sport. NFL linemen literally wrestle, sweat, breathe heavily, yell and spit all over one another on every single play. If one lineman has it, 100% certainty both lines will have it by game's end.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. All the books we read and movies we saw about Pandemic's - I don't recall a single story that had this *damn the torpedoes* approach.

2020 sucks.


Think back on those movies. Maybe you’re thinking of 28 days later, when in a month a virus turned most of a city into zombies. Maybe you’re thinking of Contagion, where 2.5mm people in the USA die from the disease, and 25% of people who catch it die, regardless of age, in a matter of days. Or maybe it is some other movie.

Did any of those pandemic movies terrify you with a pandemic that killed just 4,000 total people under 45 over six months, and which at least 99.7% of people survive and which appears to have already started to burn out in way more than half the country?
RE: so what is an exceptable count for you?  
Azul Grande : 8/7/2020 2:49 am : link
In comment 14944866 Bill L said:
Quote:
and can you name names?


What a stupid question.

I could get on an even higher horse than yours and ask why you think it’s acceptable to play during any flu season. Yes, COVID is more deadly than flu, but flu is still deadly. So, how many people are you willing to risk during the next ordinary flu season? Can you name names?

This ignores the fact that what, 30% of NYC and now 20% of even places like Arizona are testing positive for antibodies. And those numbers are 1) undercounting Bc of T cell rather than antibody immunity and 2) only going up every day. So the idea that a Cardinals player (or anyone) has a real method of avoiding the disease is ludicrous. Yes, you can lock yourself at home like my 94yo grandmother does, but if you are leaving your house much at all you are at roughly the same risk of contracting covid at some point by year end as by playing football.
Hmmmm  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 8/7/2020 6:40 am : link
Quote:
Clemson star Xavier Thomas will miss most of the 2020 season after a battle with COVID-19, strep throat.
Dabo Swinney: "He’s just nowhere near where he needs to be to play football."

Story is now updated, including this quote from Dabo Swinney: "He had a hard time when he got back with just his breathing... that’s a combination of COVID, his strep throat, being a little heavy."


Looks like even younger and healthier athletes are not immune from getting really sick. Just wait until a huge olineman or dlineman gets really sick in the NFL where they are older.
Clemson star Xavier Thomas will miss most of the 2020 season after a battle with COVID-19, strep throat. - ( New Window )
RE: RE: so what is an exceptable count for you?  
Bill L : 8/7/2020 7:19 am : link
In comment 14945329 Azul Grande said:
Quote:
In comment 14944866 Bill L said:


Quote:


and can you name names?



What a stupid question.

I could get on an even higher horse than yours and ask why you think it’s acceptable to play during any flu season. Yes, COVID is more deadly than flu, but flu is still deadly. So, how many people are you willing to risk during the next ordinary flu season? Can you name names?

This ignores the fact that what, 30% of NYC and now 20% of even places like Arizona are testing positive for antibodies. And those numbers are 1) undercounting Bc of T cell rather than antibody immunity and 2) only going up every day. So the idea that a Cardinals player (or anyone) has a real method of avoiding the disease is ludicrous. Yes, you can lock yourself at home like my 94yo grandmother does, but if you are leaving your house much at all you are at roughly the same risk of contracting covid at some point by year end as by playing football.


I'd rebut but I feel like it would be too much effort to explain to you what the letter T means, much less a T cell.
There's a flaw in this premise  
Greg from LI : 8/7/2020 7:27 am : link
The Giants have exactly one star player, Barkley.
RE: RE: RE: so what is an exceptable count for you?  
Harvest Blend : 8/7/2020 9:21 am : link
In comment 14945337 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 14945329 Azul Grande said:


Quote:


In comment 14944866 Bill L said:


Quote:


and can you name names?



What a stupid question.

I could get on an even higher horse than yours and ask why you think it’s acceptable to play during any flu season. Yes, COVID is more deadly than flu, but flu is still deadly. So, how many people are you willing to risk during the next ordinary flu season? Can you name names?

This ignores the fact that what, 30% of NYC and now 20% of even places like Arizona are testing positive for antibodies. And those numbers are 1) undercounting Bc of T cell rather than antibody immunity and 2) only going up every day. So the idea that a Cardinals player (or anyone) has a real method of avoiding the disease is ludicrous. Yes, you can lock yourself at home like my 94yo grandmother does, but if you are leaving your house much at all you are at roughly the same risk of contracting covid at some point by year end as by playing football.



I'd rebut but I feel like it would be too much effort to explain to you what the letter T means, much less a T cell.


Ooof. :)
why would a specific letter such as T have meaning?  
MetsAreBack : 8/7/2020 10:00 am : link
asking for a friend
RE: RE: RE: so what is an exceptable count for you?  
Azul Grande : 8/7/2020 10:04 am : link
In comment 14945337 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 14945329 Azul Grande said:


Quote:


In comment 14944866 Bill L said:


Quote:


and can you name names?



What a stupid question.

I could get on an even higher horse than yours and ask why you think it’s acceptable to play during any flu season. Yes, COVID is more deadly than flu, but flu is still deadly. So, how many people are you willing to risk during the next ordinary flu season? Can you name names?

This ignores the fact that what, 30% of NYC and now 20% of even places like Arizona are testing positive for antibodies. And those numbers are 1) undercounting Bc of T cell rather than antibody immunity and 2) only going up every day. So the idea that a Cardinals player (or anyone) has a real method of avoiding the disease is ludicrous. Yes, you can lock yourself at home like my 94yo grandmother does, but if you are leaving your house much at all you are at roughly the same risk of contracting covid at some point by year end as by playing football.



I'd rebut but I feel like it would be too much effort to explain to you what the letter T means, much less a T cell.



Oh dear, how will I ever recover from such a sick burn.

I’ll ask it directly: people die from flu. Was it immoral for MJ to play in the “flu game”?

For people of NFL age, flu probably kills at about the same rate as covid, but let’s say it’s 3x higher. Have you calibrated your risk threshold so precisely that covid (1 in 3k dies let’s say) breaches it but flu (1 in 10k let’s say) does not? How did you get there?

And one step further: Why should pro football players be more scared of covid that CTE this year? Which do you think will impair more NFL players long term existence if they played this year? Hint: it’s CTE by multiple orders of magnitude.
Players aren't worried about their own health...  
x meadowlander : 8/7/2020 11:40 am : link
...most of them, like most of us - are more worried about spreading it to those who are at risk.


We're supposed to all be in this together. We look at the rest of the industrialized world, we look right over the border at Canada and see how collectively the disease can be brought under control and how economies can recover.

And we refuse to do it. Because as I've been told "The show will and should go on for the younger, healthier population".
Is it really a surprise that a novel virus that seems  
kicker : 8/7/2020 11:43 am : link
to have significant morbidity aspects (that appear to be growing) would cause more consternation among health experts and regular people than an annual virus that we seem to have a decent grasp on, for short- and long-term impacts.?
.  
arcarsenal : 8/7/2020 11:48 am : link
When people are still comparing this to the flu, I worry I am going to injure myself rolling my eyes.

It's not the fucking flu.
RE: Players aren't worried about their own health...  
MetsAreBack : 8/7/2020 12:48 pm : link
In comment 14945468 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
...most of them, like most of us - are more worried about spreading it to those who are at risk.


We're supposed to all be in this together. We look at the rest of the industrialized world, we look right over the border at Canada and see how collectively the disease can be brought under control and how economies can recover.

And we refuse to do it. Because as I've been told "The show will and should go on for the younger, healthier population".


I guess i missed the part where sports ARENT being played in other countries as you suggest we do here. I guess i missed the part where other countries are still in quarantine and under strict stay-at-home orders, where younger healthier people are not allowed to go to work and earn an income as you suggest football players do in this thread.

You want to suggest we all wear masks when out - I'm all for it, i do it myself.

You want to suggest players not spend time with their parents and grand parents during the season given they'll be at higher risk of spread for a few months - I agree

But instead you've come on here and your proposed solution is... no season, no income... and that if we play, Daniel Jones will likely require two lung transplants.... its just crazy embellishment and thinking you get to decide who gets to work and make money and who doesnt is just incredibly controlling.



RE: Is it really a surprise that a novel virus that seems  
HoustonGiant : 8/7/2020 12:52 pm : link
In comment 14945469 kicker said:
Quote:
to have significant morbidity aspects (that appear to be growing) would cause more consternation among health experts and regular people than an annual virus that we seem to have a decent grasp on, for short- and long-term impacts.?


A novel virus:

with a mortality rate of 0% in those age 24 and younger.

A virus that is completely asymptomatic 80% of the time.

A virus that affects those with comorbidities almost exclusively (yes the 41 year-old actor smoked).

The fans and staff are at infinitely more risk than the players. If they don't go home to someone immunocompromised (think Nate Solder) there is very little risk.

Ask yourself why all we hear about now is "cases".

Also, if you think this is bad, especially for my NY area friends that hear "Houston is sooooo bad" just go to indeed.com and see who's hiring nurses. Houston isn't.

Hospitals are furloughing nurses, and staffs are twiddling their thumbs.


Google Search Mixed Messages, LOL - ( New Window )
You would think  
kicker : 8/7/2020 12:58 pm : link
that if your big "insight" is to link into a shitty Google search, you would be able to do something more than look at Indeed.com and see that, in the recent past, Houston hospitals have contracted with travelling nurses to provide additional ICU care, since hospital nursing is different than family nursing.

https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2020/07/10/harris-health-system-requests-traveling-nurses-to-help-fight-covid-19-surge/

(You can also click on the Houston Chronicle, which details hundreds of travel nurses flooding into Houston).

Beyond that, the rest of your post is illogical and not worth responding to. But good job; you are able to link your Google search.
Beyond people denying the difficulties with the virus,  
kicker : 8/7/2020 1:01 pm : link
it is unlikely that we have the political, economic, or societal will to reimpose significant lockdowns that we have seen. This is exacerbated by this being a significant election year.

At this point, a major goal should be managing caseloads currently, doing what we can at low cost (mask mandates, encouraging social distancing, limiting large gatherings), and preparing for the potential for a nasty fall/winter.

Unfortunately, the biggest issue coming up will be staff burnout in healthcare facilities, and how we manage that.
RE: RE: Players aren't worried about their own health...  
x meadowlander : 8/7/2020 1:54 pm : link
In comment 14945493 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
In comment 14945468 x meadowlander said:


Quote:
But instead you've come on here and your proposed solution is... no season, no income... and that if we play, Daniel Jones will likely require two lung transplants.... its just crazy embellishment and thinking you get to decide who gets to work and make money and who doesnt is just incredibly controlling.


Interesting interpretation of *my solution*.

My opinion is that it's folly to do what the NFL is trying to for a variety of obvious reasons - I'm fine with regional opening on a phased approach nationwide for ALL jobs. The Northeast is currently in good shape, most of the rest of the country is not. Yes, training camp and games in the Meadowlands are low CoVid risk TODAY.

The NFL is an enormous enterprise made up of heavily staffed franchises that travel to and from regions all over the country. EXACTLY what you DO NOT need during a PANDEMIC.

You want to keep football in safe regions, fine. NFL (and MLB) IMO should just make it an exhibition season since there is no way to tell how many games will actually be completed and which teams will make it through a CoVid impacted season. Teams have already lost players who are opting out. MLB teams already cancelling stretches of schedule. 56 NFL players have contracted CoVid to date, and we haven't played a single snap.

*I* don't get to determine who gets to work or play and who doesn't.

CoVid does.
RE: RE: Is it really a surprise that a novel virus that seems  
x meadowlander : 8/7/2020 2:00 pm : link
In comment 14945499 HoustonGiant said:
Quote:

Also, if you think this is bad, especially for my NY area friends that hear "Houston is sooooo bad" just go to indeed.com and see who's hiring nurses. Houston isn't.

Hospitals are furloughing nurses, and staffs are twiddling their thumbs.
Google Search Mixed Messages, LOL - ( New Window )


FYI - in heavily impacted area's, hospital and healthcare layoffs and furloughs are common because MUCH of what healthcare does is SHUT DOWN. No elective surgery, in-house offices, rehab, etc are shut down. The Hospital's focus becomes almost ENTIRELY CoVid and ER.

So what you're seeing in Houston is actually status quo, at least in hard hit area's. Here, upstate NY hospitals have returned to their normal pace for the most part but back in April were experiencing similar functional shutdowns and layoffs.
Free will.  
Bubba : 8/7/2020 2:10 pm : link
Its a bitch.
ok  
MetsAreBack : 8/7/2020 5:27 pm : link
I THINK i GET it but THANKS for CLARIFYING. Have a GREAT weekend and TRY NOT to get SICK. ALL the BEST!
RE: RE: Is it really a surprise that a novel virus that seems  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/7/2020 5:38 pm : link
In comment 14945499 HoustonGiant said:
Quote:
In comment 14945469 kicker said:


Quote:


to have significant morbidity aspects (that appear to be growing) would cause more consternation among health experts and regular people than an annual virus that we seem to have a decent grasp on, for short- and long-term impacts.?



A novel virus:

with a mortality rate of 0% in those age 24 and younger.

A virus that is completely asymptomatic 80% of the time.

A virus that affects those with comorbidities almost exclusively (yes the 41 year-old actor smoked).

The fans and staff are at infinitely more risk than the players. If they don't go home to someone immunocompromised (think Nate Solder) there is very little risk.

Ask yourself why all we hear about now is "cases".

Also, if you think this is bad, especially for my NY area friends that hear "Houston is sooooo bad" just go to indeed.com and see who's hiring nurses. Houston isn't.

Hospitals are furloughing nurses, and staffs are twiddling their thumbs.
Google Search Mixed Messages, LOL - ( New Window )


I live in Tampa, which is 100% a hot spot and that will be easily verifiable with an internet search.

Hospitals are furloughing staff because outpatient and elective surgeries are postponed so resources can be shifted to Covid cases. It's not because things Actually Wonderful and there's no more need for medical professionals. The ways you're looking at this is off.

And some of the people being furloughed are medically high risk so they're being sent home to avoid infection.
To add,  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/7/2020 5:41 pm : link
my wife is a surgical technologist.

Since outpatient surgeries were postponed, she is twiddling her thumbs. Her choices were either agree to screen and test COVID patients because they're understaffed, or be furloughed. As a type 1 diabetic, she's high-risk. So she took a furlough.
RE: .  
Azul Grande : 8/7/2020 7:35 pm : link
In comment 14945472 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
When people are still comparing this to the flu, I worry I am going to injure myself rolling my eyes.

It's not the fucking flu.


What an old boring statement.

Pal, nothing is something else. It's like if someone saw a dessert menu with a 600 calorie slice of cake and a 400 calorie slice of pie and said "I think the cake has more calories than the pie, but I know my diet has room for a slice of pie every now and again, so I wonder if cake is okay too." But Neil thinks its really cool to swing in all the time and scream "BRO, CAKE IS NOT PIE."

Yes, obviously, there would be no point in comparing two things if they were the same. The reason we compare it is because they are comparable. So of course you can compare Covid to Flu - it is probably about half an order of magnitude more deadly (3-4x) than a bad flu season.

You can actually also compare it to the common cold, which is also caused by coronaviruses. You know how much you can compare it? So much that your existing immune system is likely boosted by the recency of a coronavirus cold you may have contracted.

https://www.livescience.com/common-cold-coronaviruses-t-cells-covid-19-immunity.html


RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 8/7/2020 7:41 pm : link
In comment 14945755 Azul Grande said:
Quote:
In comment 14945472 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


When people are still comparing this to the flu, I worry I am going to injure myself rolling my eyes.

It's not the fucking flu.



What an old boring statement.

Pal, nothing is something else. It's like if someone saw a dessert menu with a 600 calorie slice of cake and a 400 calorie slice of pie and said "I think the cake has more calories than the pie, but I know my diet has room for a slice of pie every now and again, so I wonder if cake is okay too." But Neil thinks its really cool to swing in all the time and scream "BRO, CAKE IS NOT PIE."

Yes, obviously, there would be no point in comparing two things if they were the same. The reason we compare it is because they are comparable. So of course you can compare Covid to Flu - it is probably about half an order of magnitude more deadly (3-4x) than a bad flu season.

You can actually also compare it to the common cold, which is also caused by coronaviruses. You know how much you can compare it? So much that your existing immune system is likely boosted by the recency of a coronavirus cold you may have contracted.

https://www.livescience.com/common-cold-coronaviruses-t-cells-covid-19-immunity.html



"The reason we compare it is because they are comparable"

You lose me there. They're not.

Do better.
RE: RE: RE: Is it really a surprise that a novel virus that seems  
Azul Grande : 8/7/2020 7:45 pm : link
In comment 14945683 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 14945499 HoustonGiant said:


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In comment 14945469 kicker said:


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to have significant morbidity aspects (that appear to be growing) would cause more consternation among health experts and regular people than an annual virus that we seem to have a decent grasp on, for short- and long-term impacts.?



A novel virus:

with a mortality rate of 0% in those age 24 and younger.

A virus that is completely asymptomatic 80% of the time.

A virus that affects those with comorbidities almost exclusively (yes the 41 year-old actor smoked).

The fans and staff are at infinitely more risk than the players. If they don't go home to someone immunocompromised (think Nate Solder) there is very little risk.

Ask yourself why all we hear about now is "cases".

Also, if you think this is bad, especially for my NY area friends that hear "Houston is sooooo bad" just go to indeed.com and see who's hiring nurses. Houston isn't.

Hospitals are furloughing nurses, and staffs are twiddling their thumbs.
Google Search Mixed Messages, LOL - ( New Window )



I live in Tampa, which is 100% a hot spot and that will be easily verifiable with an internet search.

Hospitals are furloughing staff because outpatient and elective surgeries are postponed so resources can be shifted to Covid cases. It's not because things Actually Wonderful and there's no more need for medical professionals. The ways you're looking at this is off.

And some of the people being furloughed are medically high risk so they're being sent home to avoid infection.


of course I support your wife's decision to protect herself, but I think your information about the problem in the medical system is just incorrect.

Tampa is in Hillsborough County. At the link below you can see the situation. As of today, in Hillsborough county covid patients occupy 394 hospital beds, non-covid patients occupy 2,907 beds, and 548 beds are empty. That's ~85% capacity utilization, with covid patients making up just a tick over 10% of all patients, and this is while the pandemic is clearly on the down slope in Florida. This is a hospital operating below normal capacity utilization to solve a resource problem it doesn't have.

And this is in one of the "hottest" spots in the country.
Link - ( New Window )
.  
arcarsenal : 8/7/2020 7:47 pm : link
Also, I'm not sure where you're getting 3-4x more deadly from. Try 10x. It's closer to that.

We have a flu vaccine each year and approved treatments for the flu. We have neither for COVID as it stands right now.

Quote:
A column Trusted Sourceprinted in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) on May 14 noted that flu deaths and COVID-19 deaths are not even reported the same way.

The column written by Dr. Jeremy Samuel Faust, MS, an emergency medicine specialist affiliated with Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Massachusetts, states that flu deaths are estimated while COVID-19 deaths are confirmed cases.

He notes that during mid-April the “counted deaths” for COVID-19 in the United States were around 15,000 per week. During a typical “peak week” for the flu, the “counted deaths” are about 750.

Faust concludes that COVID-19 deaths are actually anywhere from 10 times to 44 times the number of influenza fatalities.


If you're still comparing this to the flu, you lost the pack about 6 months ago. It has long been established that it's a worthless comparison because there are several key differences.

Sure, you could continue to force compare them - but it isn't serving much of a purpose.
It's all well and good to cite total hospital beds, and the fact that  
kicker : 8/7/2020 8:04 pm : link
capacity is currently around 85%.

Except, of course, the national average hospital bed utilization is between 49% (2019; differences between rural and urban) and 61% (2012). So, 85% is a significant increase.

And, of course, given that hospitals typically operate at the maximum number of beds per staffer (typically measured by RNs) during most times, this indicates the potential for significant staffing shortages (that we are seeing met by growing demand for travel nurses).

So, not sure why 85%, with ~10% being COVID patients, is a win.
RE: RE: RE: .  
Azul Grande : 8/7/2020 8:06 pm : link
In comment 14945759 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 14945755 Azul Grande said:


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In comment 14945472 arcarsenal said:


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When people are still comparing this to the flu, I worry I am going to injure myself rolling my eyes.

It's not the fucking flu.



What an old boring statement.

Pal, nothing is something else. It's like if someone saw a dessert menu with a 600 calorie slice of cake and a 400 calorie slice of pie and said "I think the cake has more calories than the pie, but I know my diet has room for a slice of pie every now and again, so I wonder if cake is okay too." But Neil thinks its really cool to swing in all the time and scream "BRO, CAKE IS NOT PIE."

Yes, obviously, there would be no point in comparing two things if they were the same. The reason we compare it is because they are comparable. So of course you can compare Covid to Flu - it is probably about half an order of magnitude more deadly (3-4x) than a bad flu season.

You can actually also compare it to the common cold, which is also caused by coronaviruses. You know how much you can compare it? So much that your existing immune system is likely boosted by the recency of a coronavirus cold you may have contracted.

https://www.livescience.com/common-cold-coronaviruses-t-cells-covid-19-immunity.html





"The reason we compare it is because they are comparable"

You lose me there. They're not.

Do better.


You can compare an elephant to a horse. "While both are mammals, the mature elephant is larger than the mature horse." Specifically, you can say "The median elephant weighs more than the median horse."

You can compare pancreatic cancer to colon cancer. "Pancreatic cancer is typically more deadly than colon cancer." Specifically, you can say "The 5-year survival rate of a patient with Stage 3 colon cancer exceeds that of Stage 3 pancreatic cancer."

What the hell does it mean to say you can't compare things? I can compare a banana to the Eiffel Tower. "A banana is much more delicious than the Eiffel Tower, and usually more yellow."

So obviously you can compare Covid to the flu. You can say "Covid is more deadly than even bad flus which have recently struck our population. The best evidence says it is roughly 3-5x more deadly."

People who say you can't compare them want to shut down debate and not be confronted with hypocrisy because they would never, for example, forbid their father from coming to visit his grandkids for 6+ monthsover a flu.

MAYBE you are among the very few people who have calibrated their opinions so precisely that you can affirmatively say "Yes, I would tell my grandfather to fly on a plane if a disease were circulating with a 1/1000 mortality rate, but I would tell him to definitely NOT fly on the plane if there were a disease circulating with a 4/1000 mortality rate."

If so, you are the exception, but the fact you pretend to not understand how to compare two things makes me feel that's not the case.
Again, if you want to compare the flu to COVID-19, you must  
kicker : 8/7/2020 8:10 pm : link
compare morbidity and mortality outcomes. Not just one.
RE: Again, if you want to compare the flu to COVID-19, you must  
Azul Grande : 8/7/2020 8:11 pm : link
In comment 14945783 kicker said:
Quote:
compare morbidity and mortality outcomes. Not just one.


100% agreed.
RE: .  
Azul Grande : 8/7/2020 8:15 pm : link
In comment 14945766 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Also, I'm not sure where you're getting 3-4x more deadly from. Try 10x. It's closer to that.

We have a flu vaccine each year and approved treatments for the flu. We have neither for COVID as it stands right now.



Quote:


A column Trusted Sourceprinted in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) on May 14 noted that flu deaths and COVID-19 deaths are not even reported the same way.

The column written by Dr. Jeremy Samuel Faust, MS, an emergency medicine specialist affiliated with Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Massachusetts, states that flu deaths are estimated while COVID-19 deaths are confirmed cases.

He notes that during mid-April the “counted deaths” for COVID-19 in the United States were around 15,000 per week. During a typical “peak week” for the flu, the “counted deaths” are about 750.

Faust concludes that COVID-19 deaths are actually anywhere from 10 times to 44 times the number of influenza fatalities.



If you're still comparing this to the flu, you lost the pack about 6 months ago. It has long been established that it's a worthless comparison because there are several key differences.

Sure, you could continue to force compare them - but it isn't serving much of a purpose.


I'm sorry, when you say we have a treatment for the flu but not for covid (WRRRRRONG! remdesivir is an approved treatment getting excellent results), or that there could be up to 44x as many covid fatalities as flu fatalities (WRRRRRONG! as flu typically kills about 40-50k people a year, that would mean 2mm people had died of COVID as of May 14... NOPE!), aren't you... um.... COMPARING covid and the flu?
RE: RE: .  
Azul Grande : 8/7/2020 8:17 pm : link
In comment 14945790 Azul Grande said:
Quote:
In comment 14945766 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Also, I'm not sure where you're getting 3-4x more deadly from. Try 10x. It's closer to that.

We have a flu vaccine each year and approved treatments for the flu. We have neither for COVID as it stands right now.



Quote:


A column Trusted Sourceprinted in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) on May 14 noted that flu deaths and COVID-19 deaths are not even reported the same way.

The column written by Dr. Jeremy Samuel Faust, MS, an emergency medicine specialist affiliated with Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Massachusetts, states that flu deaths are estimated while COVID-19 deaths are confirmed cases.

He notes that during mid-April the “counted deaths” for COVID-19 in the United States were around 15,000 per week. During a typical “peak week” for the flu, the “counted deaths” are about 750.

Faust concludes that COVID-19 deaths are actually anywhere from 10 times to 44 times the number of influenza fatalities.



If you're still comparing this to the flu, you lost the pack about 6 months ago. It has long been established that it's a worthless comparison because there are several key differences.

Sure, you could continue to force compare them - but it isn't serving much of a purpose.



I'm sorry, when you say we have a treatment for the flu but not for covid (WRRRRRONG! remdesivir is an approved treatment getting excellent results), or that there could be up to 44x as many covid fatalities as flu fatalities (WRRRRRONG! as flu typically kills about 40-50k people a year, that would mean 2mm people had died of COVID as of May 14... NOPE!), aren't you... um.... COMPARING covid and the flu?


in the interest of being accurate, remdesivir is not "approved" but it is "authorized" and everyone in the medical community will tell you the results are excellent.
RE: I haven't  
steve in ky : 8/7/2020 8:27 pm : link
In comment 14944244 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
followed all sports on this. Are there any examples of any athletes suffering permanent damage? I don't recall seeing any.


I don't know that anyone can truly know the answer to that question at this point. Only time will give us the proper perspective to accurately answer that.
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