to current way to treat (notably it's mainly delivered via IV, which is often farther in the progression of COVID than optimal, at least based on study results and Gilead announcements of unpublished findings); the cost; and the limited supply.
Also, I'm not sure where you're getting 3-4x more deadly from. Try 10x. It's closer to that.
We have a flu vaccine each year and approved treatments for the flu. We have neither for COVID as it stands right now.
Quote:
A column Trusted Sourceprinted in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) on May 14 noted that flu deaths and COVID-19 deaths are not even reported the same way.
The column written by Dr. Jeremy Samuel Faust, MS, an emergency medicine specialist affiliated with Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Massachusetts, states that flu deaths are estimated while COVID-19 deaths are confirmed cases.
He notes that during mid-April the “counted deaths” for COVID-19 in the United States were around 15,000 per week. During a typical “peak week” for the flu, the “counted deaths” are about 750.
Faust concludes that COVID-19 deaths are actually anywhere from 10 times to 44 times the number of influenza fatalities.
If you're still comparing this to the flu, you lost the pack about 6 months ago. It has long been established that it's a worthless comparison because there are several key differences.
Sure, you could continue to force compare them - but it isn't serving much of a purpose.
I'm sorry, when you say we have a treatment for the flu but not for covid (WRRRRRONG! remdesivir is an approved treatment getting excellent results), or that there could be up to 44x as many covid fatalities as flu fatalities (WRRRRRONG! as flu typically kills about 40-50k people a year, that would mean 2mm people had died of COVID as of May 14... NOPE!), aren't you... um.... COMPARING covid and the flu?
What was your prior handle? Your childish and irritating posting style seems familiar.
Anyway, you're off on Remdesivir having "excellent results" - the results have been promising in some cases. Not all. And the results are mixed in other instances. You also left out this key detail while you were blowing so much hot air into what you seemed to think was a "gotcha" clapback.
Quote:
Currently, Remdesivir is only available to hospitalized patients at certain institutions who have the medication available, or through a clinical trial. However, the results of these trials will not be available for months.
This is right on the CDC website.
Quote:
While remdesivir is an antiviral agent that is being explored as a treatment for COVID-19 and is available under an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA), there are currently no drugs or other therapeutics approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to prevent or treat COVID-19. Studies are in progress to learn more.
Comparing the flu and COVID is like comparing a QB to a DE. They're both football players, but other than that, they don't have a whole lot in common.
The flu is a respiratory virus. COVID is not the same. Some patients have developed blood clots in the veins and arteries of the lungs, heart, legs or brain and some children have developed MIS-C from COVID.
We have decades upon decades of flu data and research. We have so much less when it comes to this.
So again, compare them if you want to look for a way to diminish COVID and call it 'just a cold' or 'just the flu' - but when there are so many key differences and unknowns involved, it's an exercise in futility.
COVID should be treated like COVID as we continue to learn more and collect more data.
Also, the link on hospital beds isn't proving what you think it is. I noticed you also conveniently left out the part where 398 ICU beds were occupied with just 42 left available.
Wonder why...
Probably because it would have diminished your point.
Because we want to compare COVID with the flu, let's look beyond
mortality or hospital bed usage, since those are not actually correct indicators of the severity of the disease.
Let's quantify the healthcare cost differences in just one county in America: the one that was brought up.
I'm going to underestimate everything, but the "cost-savings" per day of an unfilled normal hospital bed is above $200, while for an unfilled ICU bed it is above $400. The average occupancy rate for ICU beds is normally around 68%. For regular hospital beds, its around 49%. I'm only going to focus on ICU bed fills.
So, these estimates are going to be much lower than they should be. I'm also going to assume that the average fills for hospital beds are all going to the flu (again, provides an underestimate). Using August 8th data.
So, the cost INCREASES per day during the pandemic for ICU's in one county are an additional $7,629 per day for COVID ICU beds; over the duration of the illness (in excess of the average ICU entry), this is $38,150 per illness per day.
Just over the past 2 weeks, the excess cost of COVID bed fills in one county is $534,095.
Hillsbrough is the 27th largest county population. Let's assume that these COVID costs are just found in Hillsbrough, and the larger counties ONLY, just over the past 2 weeks. You know what the economic cost of COVID is, over flu?
Over $14 million. In 2 weeks. Just in ICU beds. Just in 27 counties (over 3,000 in America).
Now, mind you, if you start extending the timeline of COVID, plus
place more realistic excess costs of COVID treatment (instead of $400 per day per ICU bed, it would be closer to 3-4x that), you are looking at 9 figure costs...
And that's mostly warm weather months with dramatic action being taken globally to mitigate. I mean, doesn't that argument become farcical right there?
1) This flu vs. COVID argument should have been over among time ago.
2) So much still unknown. So many theories and guesses have been debunked, proven wrong, etc. constantly. So, why or how anyone can say with confidence what the long term effects are or will be is beyond me.
3) Re #2: the answer can be different for every person.
4) I can tell you I had a mild case. But,the initial symptoms lingered for 4 weeks, not 2. And, now, after testing negative over 6 weeks ago, I still wake up every morning and have to think about how my breathing is. Think about that. How often do you think about your breathing? Now,think about an athlete who is used to going all out against equally fast, strong, and talented guys. Having that in the back of your mind is not good.
RE: seriously when did the flu kill 150-200k ppl in a span of ~5 months?
And that's mostly warm weather months with dramatic action being taken globally to mitigate. I mean, doesn't that argument become farcical right there?
It should!
But, for folks like we have in this thread, welp...
So a hospital at 85% is quite possibly over 100% their normal operating capacity.
Need total 2019 beds for the comparison.
Quote:
Also, I'm not sure where you're getting 3-4x more deadly from. Try 10x. It's closer to that.
We have a flu vaccine each year and approved treatments for the flu. We have neither for COVID as it stands right now.
Quote:
A column Trusted Sourceprinted in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) on May 14 noted that flu deaths and COVID-19 deaths are not even reported the same way.
The column written by Dr. Jeremy Samuel Faust, MS, an emergency medicine specialist affiliated with Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Massachusetts, states that flu deaths are estimated while COVID-19 deaths are confirmed cases.
He notes that during mid-April the “counted deaths” for COVID-19 in the United States were around 15,000 per week. During a typical “peak week” for the flu, the “counted deaths” are about 750.
Faust concludes that COVID-19 deaths are actually anywhere from 10 times to 44 times the number of influenza fatalities.
If you're still comparing this to the flu, you lost the pack about 6 months ago. It has long been established that it's a worthless comparison because there are several key differences.
Sure, you could continue to force compare them - but it isn't serving much of a purpose.
I'm sorry, when you say we have a treatment for the flu but not for covid (WRRRRRONG! remdesivir is an approved treatment getting excellent results), or that there could be up to 44x as many covid fatalities as flu fatalities (WRRRRRONG! as flu typically kills about 40-50k people a year, that would mean 2mm people had died of COVID as of May 14... NOPE!), aren't you... um.... COMPARING covid and the flu?
What was your prior handle? Your childish and irritating posting style seems familiar.
Anyway, you're off on Remdesivir having "excellent results" - the results have been promising in some cases. Not all. And the results are mixed in other instances. You also left out this key detail while you were blowing so much hot air into what you seemed to think was a "gotcha" clapback.
This is right on the CDC website.
Comparing the flu and COVID is like comparing a QB to a DE. They're both football players, but other than that, they don't have a whole lot in common.
The flu is a respiratory virus. COVID is not the same. Some patients have developed blood clots in the veins and arteries of the lungs, heart, legs or brain and some children have developed MIS-C from COVID.
We have decades upon decades of flu data and research. We have so much less when it comes to this.
So again, compare them if you want to look for a way to diminish COVID and call it 'just a cold' or 'just the flu' - but when there are so many key differences and unknowns involved, it's an exercise in futility.
COVID should be treated like COVID as we continue to learn more and collect more data.
Wonder why...
Probably because it would have diminished your point.
Let's quantify the healthcare cost differences in just one county in America: the one that was brought up.
I'm going to underestimate everything, but the "cost-savings" per day of an unfilled normal hospital bed is above $200, while for an unfilled ICU bed it is above $400. The average occupancy rate for ICU beds is normally around 68%. For regular hospital beds, its around 49%. I'm only going to focus on ICU bed fills.
So, these estimates are going to be much lower than they should be. I'm also going to assume that the average fills for hospital beds are all going to the flu (again, provides an underestimate). Using August 8th data.
So, the cost INCREASES per day during the pandemic for ICU's in one county are an additional $7,629 per day for COVID ICU beds; over the duration of the illness (in excess of the average ICU entry), this is $38,150 per illness per day.
Just over the past 2 weeks, the excess cost of COVID bed fills in one county is $534,095.
Hillsbrough is the 27th largest county population. Let's assume that these COVID costs are just found in Hillsbrough, and the larger counties ONLY, just over the past 2 weeks. You know what the economic cost of COVID is, over flu?
Over $14 million. In 2 weeks. Just in ICU beds. Just in 27 counties (over 3,000 in America).
2) So much still unknown. So many theories and guesses have been debunked, proven wrong, etc. constantly. So, why or how anyone can say with confidence what the long term effects are or will be is beyond me.
3) Re #2: the answer can be different for every person.
4) I can tell you I had a mild case. But,the initial symptoms lingered for 4 weeks, not 2. And, now, after testing negative over 6 weeks ago, I still wake up every morning and have to think about how my breathing is. Think about that. How often do you think about your breathing? Now,think about an athlete who is used to going all out against equally fast, strong, and talented guys. Having that in the back of your mind is not good.
It should!
But, for folks like we have in this thread, welp...