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Why is Peart in so much need of experience to be productive?

fuzzy : 8/6/2020 1:40 pm
Whenever Peart is in the discussion it is always about how he can be a productive player with more experience and seasoning. Why are others farther along when Peart was a 4 year starter that never missed a game? Did UCONN coaching and competition suck that much? Please help me understand.
Competition  
Mike in NY : 8/6/2020 1:42 pm : link
Not playing against NFL caliber DE’s needs to get stronger/more physical especially in running game
he is going to get his chance to compete  
larryflower37 : 8/6/2020 1:50 pm : link
stranger things have happened.
I am one that thinks he might win the job over Fleming at some point during the season, if not in camp
RE: Competition  
BlueLou'sBack : 8/6/2020 2:05 pm : link
In comment 14945018 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
Not playing against NFL caliber DE’s needs to get stronger/more physical especially in running game


Exactly ^^^^. Not so much for Thomas who's already fared well vs guys who produced immediately as rookies in the NFL (Josh Allen). The jump in comp from UConn is gonna be huge.
RE: RE: Competition  
John In CO : 8/6/2020 2:24 pm : link
In comment 14945028 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
In comment 14945018 Mike in NY said:


Quote:


Not playing against NFL caliber DE’s needs to get stronger/more physical especially in running game



Exactly ^^^^. Not so much for Thomas who's already fared well vs guys who produced immediately as rookies in the NFL (Josh Allen). The jump in comp from UConn is gonna be huge.


While I agree that he didnt face anywhere near the same competition that Thomas did in the SEC, its not like he was playing NAIA level competition. While the AAC isnt a Power 5 conference, with teams like UCF, Cincinnati, Houston and Memphis if there were a Power 6 they would probably be the 6. Probably a bit better than CUSA and the MAC and on the same level or even a bit higher than the MWC. Dont recall the same issues being brought up when a OT is drafted from, say, Boise St. There will be a jump for sure, but not as huge as if here were coming from a FCS or NAIA level school.
Players  
Dragon : 8/6/2020 2:27 pm : link
Have to adjust to the speed of NFL players and the game speed itself. Why can’t Peart play no answer to that question because he has the size, length, strength, quickness and frame to get even bigger and stronger. You have to play the guys put in front of you no matter the level of competition you can’t ask anything more of a player. He’s got as much of a chance as anyone to gain playing time as the season goes on and adjust to NFL coaching.
OP- Not sure who was in the discussion(s) on Peart but  
LBH15 : 8/6/2020 2:35 pm : link
unless comments came from Coach Judge and or Colombo don’t give it to much credence. Their opinions are only what matters and they have barely see him do anything yet.

With that said, he was a late 3rd round pick and something like the 10th tackle drafted so it wouldn’t be unusual for him to need some development time before he can contribute.
In the modern history of the Giants...  
x meadowlander : 8/6/2020 2:44 pm : link
...what rookie OT's came in and were immediately productive?

Going back, I'm thinking about Flowers, Pugh, Brewer, Beatty, Pettigout, Hatch, Oben, Gragg (boy, Big Blue drafts crummy linemen)- I have to go back to Jumbo Elliott to find a tackle who was actually 'Good to go out of the box'.

I guess Pugh was *ok* as a RT initially actually. But he was a first rounder - Peart is a 3rd. I'd be shocked if he came out as a viable starter.

RE: In the modern history of the Giants...  
larryflower37 : 8/6/2020 3:05 pm : link
In comment 14945046 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
...what rookie OT's came in and were immediately productive?

Going back, I'm thinking about Flowers, Pugh, Brewer, Beatty, Pettigout, Hatch, Oben, Gragg (boy, Big Blue drafts crummy linemen)- I have to go back to Jumbo Elliott to find a tackle who was actually 'Good to go out of the box'.

I guess Pugh was *ok* as a RT initially actually. But he was a first rounder - Peart is a 3rd. I'd be shocked if he came out as a viable starter.

are you kidding
David Diehl was a 5th round starter day 1 at RT
RE: RE: In the modern history of the Giants...  
Milton : 8/6/2020 3:08 pm : link
In comment 14945058 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
In comment 14945046 x meadowlander said:


Quote:


...what rookie OT's came in and were immediately productive?

Going back, I'm thinking about Flowers, Pugh, Brewer, Beatty, Pettigout, Hatch, Oben, Gragg (boy, Big Blue drafts crummy linemen)- I have to go back to Jumbo Elliott to find a tackle who was actually 'Good to go out of the box'.

I guess Pugh was *ok* as a RT initially actually. But he was a first rounder - Peart is a 3rd. I'd be shocked if he came out as a viable starter.



are you kidding
David Diehl was a 5th round starter day 1 at RT
Mike Rosenthal was another 5th rounder who started as a rookie.
I agree, I think it just something people say about small school  
rasbutant : 8/6/2020 3:12 pm : link
prospects. But it's actually good for the player, takes some of the pressure off. Peart to me, seems like a guy that could succeed right away. I believe, the good that what we see from day 1 will be what we see from him. It will be the reduction of the mistakes, that over time with coaching and experience that will make him a better player.

Physically he looks ready to me, mentally (football smarts), is where I think his improvement will come. But his real key for me, and I have no way to know this, but how much does he want it, to me that will be his determining factor.
also there not a ton of competition at RT  
larryflower37 : 8/6/2020 3:20 pm : link
Fleming is a proven back up swing tackle and Gates might be our center.
Fleming knows the system and with Covid-19 that puts him way ahead.
I would not be surprised if Peart is not the starter by year end.
RE: also there not a ton of competition at RT  
Ivan15 : 8/6/2020 3:38 pm : link
In comment 14945063 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
Fleming is a proven back up swing tackle and Gates might be our center.
Fleming knows the system and with Covid-19 that puts him way ahead.
I would not be surprised if Peart is not the starter by year end.


Not really important LarryFlowers but I think Diehl only played Guard his first year. Started all 16 games there. That was a great accomplishment.
RE: I agree, I think it just something people say about small school  
fuzzy : 8/6/2020 4:11 pm : link
In comment 14945062 rasbutant said:
Quote:
prospects. But it's actually good for the player, takes some of the pressure off. Peart to me, seems like a guy that could succeed right away. I believe, the good that what we see from day 1 will be what we see from him. It will be the reduction of the mistakes, that over time with coaching and experience that will make him a better player.

Physically he looks ready to me, mentally (football smarts), is where I think his improvement will come. But his real key for me, and I have no way to know this, but how much does he want it, to me that will be his determining factor.


How much does he want it? That is what separates the good from the great so often. Let's hope as part of his scouting the brain trust looked into that as well.
Peart is intriguing  
Phil in LA : 8/6/2020 4:26 pm : link
because he didn't play football till he was a senior in HS. So in just 5 years he became a 3rd round pick. Among other things, it means he's natually gifted and a very fast learner. Wouldn't be surprised if he does start at some point this year. He needed to get stronger and he's had months and months to do that.
Agree with Dragon  
Lines of Scrimmage : 8/6/2020 4:33 pm : link
Speed. Then you have the complexity of schemes. I also think mental toughness and stamina. Every play you are going against someone who is more talented than anyone you have played against.....for a sixteen game season with no gimmies.

RE: RE: also there not a ton of competition at RT  
larryflower37 : 8/6/2020 4:55 pm : link
In comment 14945071 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
In comment 14945063 larryflower37 said:


Quote:


Fleming is a proven back up swing tackle and Gates might be our center.
Fleming knows the system and with Covid-19 that puts him way ahead.
I would not be surprised if Peart is not the starter by year end.



Not really important LarryFlowers but I think Diehl only played Guard his first year. Started all 16 games there. That was a great accomplishment.

I thought he move to Guard in year 2 but I could be wrong!
it's seems like a life time ago
Never saw one UCONN Game  
djstat : 8/6/2020 5:30 pm : link
So I have no idea what type of player he was. A lot of rookie lineman have to work on technique, footwork and hand placement on the outside as rookies. That said, he will get a chance to compete and won’t surprise if he wins the job. But his technique and footwork will be critical.
x meadowlander  
WillieYoung : 8/6/2020 6:32 pm : link
Karl Nelson came in and transformed a weak offensive line in 1984. We went from 3-12-1 in 83 to 9-7 with a wild card playoff win in 1984. Nelson started all 18 games (regular season and playoffs). Third round pick out of Iowa.
Because  
David B. : 8/6/2020 7:03 pm : link
This isn't Madden.
Perfect frame for the job - needs a little more mass/muscle  
mavric : 8/6/2020 7:06 pm : link
Every rookie "needs experience to be productive", not just Peart. Thomas needs experience as well.

The issue has been his weight (6'7" 318 lbs) with a ridiculous arm length and wingspan (a dream size for a tackle), but the 318 lbs is about 15-20 light for his frame. I imagine he's already gained 5 - 10 lbs of muscle mass from conditioning. He's going to be fine and we're going to end up loving him!
RE: Because  
LBH15 : 8/6/2020 7:45 pm : link
In comment 14945187 David B. said:
Quote:
This isn't Madden.


Haha, very good !
Milton: Rosenthal’s rookie starts were at guard.  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/6/2020 10:47 pm : link
He split time with Petitgout at LG. Oben and Gragg were the tackles in 1999. Stone was a fixture at RG. Brian Williams came back from multiple eye surgeries to play center, with Derek Engler filling in for a few games in December.
RE: Perfect frame for the job - needs a little more mass/muscle  
section125 : 8/7/2020 7:22 am : link
In comment 14945190 mavric said:
Quote:
Every rookie "needs experience to be productive", not just Peart. Thomas needs experience as well.

The issue has been his weight (6'7" 318 lbs) with a ridiculous arm length and wingspan (a dream size for a tackle), but the 318 lbs is about 15-20 light for his frame. I imagine he's already gained 5 - 10 lbs of muscle mass from conditioning. He's going to be fine and we're going to end up loving him!


I don't think 318 is too light. The guy is muscular, with little gut, which should make him quicker. He is not built like Reggie McKenzie, true. He is likely to gain some weight and strength with NFL training between now and next July. I believe it has more to do with speed of the game and the complexity combined.
Real training camp begins in just under 10 days ...  
Spider56 : 8/7/2020 8:12 am : link
Then we’ll see where Peart currently is vs the big boys ...a few 1 on 1s with Dexter, Xman and others should give a good indication of where he is and what he needs to do.
RE: RE: In the modern history of the Giants...  
x meadowlander : 8/7/2020 8:58 am : link
In comment 14945058 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
In comment 14945046 x meadowlander said:


Quote:


...what rookie OT's came in and were immediately productive?

Going back, I'm thinking about Flowers, Pugh, Brewer, Beatty, Pettigout, Hatch, Oben, Gragg (boy, Big Blue drafts crummy linemen)- I have to go back to Jumbo Elliott to find a tackle who was actually 'Good to go out of the box'.

I guess Pugh was *ok* as a RT initially actually. But he was a first rounder - Peart is a 3rd. I'd be shocked if he came out as a viable starter.



are you kidding
David Diehl was a 5th round starter day 1 at RT
Diehl was a Guard his rookie year, and a good one - he was outstanding. Giants HAVE had luck with interior linemen - but rookie tackles have rarely been able to step right in and play well.

Mike Rosenthal was a rookie in 99 - he was a bench warmer his rookie year, Roman Oben and Scott Gragg were the starting tackles, 99, Luke Pettigout's rookie season was at Guard.

My point is simply that I'd even be thrilled if *Thomas* was able to play at a high level out of the box. It's simply not a plug and play position so the thought of *Peart* stepping in and being a viable rookie tackle isn't likely.

Don't get me wrong, I *hope* both men step in and become Jones' long term bookends. I have high hopes for this Giant offense, and quality OL are key.
Forgetting the strength question and even the level of  
BlueLou'sBack : 8/7/2020 8:59 am : link
competition he faced, there's a big question of how truly raw his technique is. If you have dug into him at all, you have heard Peart himself speak about how Andrew Thomas helped him tremendously with various points of technique, and technique, or at least consistency of technique, is one of the biggest questions with Thomas year one.

Go have a look at David Diehl's snapshot analysis of both OTs (posted separately) in The Huddle podcast section on Giants.com. Thomas has a wicked punch, but doesn't employ it consistently enough and still needs to work on hand placement. Peart doesn't have a punch. Not at all, really. He will be just learning it now in the NFL.

At the college level Peart got by and even excelled (relative to his teammates) pretty much on raw ability and decent footwork alone. That's not near enough to handle the NFC East's top pass rushers, who all happen to play for the opposition and NOT for the Giants.
More than most other positions in football  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/7/2020 5:05 pm : link
college resume means very little when it comes to a tackle prospect being successful.

That he was a 4 year starter means so little.
Two simple reasons...1) his technique is raw...  
Torrag : 8/7/2020 8:42 pm : link
2) he's going to face a serious step up in the level of competition he faces. Those things usually require some time and experience to adapt/make adjustments.
RE: More than most other positions in football  
BlueLou'sBack : 8/7/2020 11:52 pm : link
In comment 14945662 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
college resume means very little when it comes to a tackle prospect being successful.

That he was a 4 year starter means so little.



???????

Do you have evidence to back up this statement? Please provide it.


Otherwise, this sounds like something you just pulled out of your bunghole, rather than a valid observation or analysis.

Seriously curious...
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