you pass up a golden opportunity. He is the next out the door
I'm torn on that. Like I can't blame him for opting out, I don't know his reasons.
But how do you pass up this kind of opportunity. All he had to do is beat out Corey Ballentine and he was going to start at CB and potentially make himself millions upon millions if he played well. I don't know how you pass that up, and as an organization it would really rub me the wrong way, which I know isn't fair because he has every right to opt out, but man I don't know how he chose to opt out
fuck baker. i've said this numerous times. he showed me everything i needed to see last year when he lacked effort on the field and fell asleep in meetings. this guy is a loser and a cancer and they can't be rid of him soon enough.
hopefully they can recoup a lot of his bonus money for cap purposes.
WTF was he thinking? Young kid who has shown absolutely no maturity. Just when you thought the CB position was becoming a solid piece of the Defense, it’s now lacking any quality depth. We don’t really know what we have in Ballentine and who is he now competing with, Love, Askew-Henry?
but this time one he traded multiple picks to move up for.
gettleman has overseen a rebuild of what might currently be the worst defense in the league (easily the worst in the division), perilously thin at every position except DT.
Example: Baker & Dunbar, both at game. Baker gets pissed starts robbing patrons - Dunbar says thing that may be supportive of Baker, but his actions fall short of the steps needed for the robbery.
could still obviously be acquitted, but this is definitely a bad development, especially given the seriousness of the charges. He won't play this season, but still might for the Giants if he's acquitted.
We don't know why Beal opted out. No fault to him for doing so. He may have a family member who is immunocompromised or has an underlying medical condition that would likely exacerbate COVID - 19. His contract also gets extended for another year.
unless there is off the field stuff indicating this type of behavior, hard to blame this on Gettleman.
he traded multiple picks to move up into the first round to draft a player with notable work ethic issues, who is well on his way to becoming a convicted felon.
he also burned a 3rd rounder to draft perpetually injured sam beal in the supplemental.
slice it any way you want, gettleman's overseen the construction of a defense that's bottom of the league and looks to be getting worse.
I was hopeful, but if there was no case or even if it was weak case - I think they'd have dropped it or offered a sweet plea deal. I'm thinking it's probably only a matter of time before he's cut
one can question whether his on the field performance warranted DG's draft day trades. But, knowing your first rounder is going to commit multiple armed robberies - unless there was evidence of this type of behavior - can't fault DG for that.
I don't share your pessimistic view of this defense. They're rebuilding and have made some smart moves, and a few that were questionable
unless there is off the field stuff indicating this type of behavior, hard to blame this on Gettleman.
he traded multiple picks to move up into the first round to draft a player with notable work ethic issues, who is well on his way to becoming a convicted felon.
he also burned a 3rd rounder to draft perpetually injured sam beal in the supplemental.
slice it any way you want, gettleman's overseen the construction of a defense that's bottom of the league and looks to be getting worse.
don't forget the burned 3rd and 5th rounders for LW
trading multiple picks for ogletree- whiff
trading multiple picks for leonard williams- whiff
trading multiple picks to draft baker- whiff
blowing a 3rd to draft beal in the supplemental- whiff
getting zero return for jenkins- whiff
not re-signing collins and getting peppers for cheap in the OBJ trade and playing the waiting game with golden are about the only moves i see that could be construed as 'smart.'
still can't see how it's anything other than a bottom three defense in the NFL from a talent standpoint.
I hear you guys, but if you recall, the police reports after the incident said the get-away car(s) were stationed in advance and that Dunbar was an accomplice.
So either he flipped, as some are saying, or something does't add up.
I'm not trying to sound like an apologist here, but the whole case doesn't add up to me. Why would a 1st-round draft pick rob people of $750,000 of jewelry at a dice game? This sounds more like a set-up/shakedown to me.
Baker because he's so similar to Bradberry. Btw, this whole case seems nutty and not sure he won't beat it.
Not so nutty to me. Baker robbed several people at gunpoint, paid them off to change their story until the DA threatened to charge them for changing their story and they folded. And it looks like Dunbar may have flipped as well to avoid prosecution. Pretty simple actually.
one can question whether his on the field performance warranted DG's draft day trades. But, knowing your first rounder is going to commit multiple armed robberies - unless there was evidence of this type of behavior - can't fault DG for that.
I don't share your pessimistic view of this defense. They're rebuilding and have made some smart moves, and a few that were questionable
Baker because he's so similar to Bradberry. Btw, this whole case seems nutty and not sure he won't beat it.
Not so nutty to me. Baker robbed several people at gunpoint, paid them off to change their story until the DA threatened to charge them for changing their story and they folded. And it looks like Dunbar may have flipped as well to avoid prosecution. Pretty simple actually.
Just to clarify, this is my speculation, who knows what actually happened.
I hear you guys, but if you recall, the police reports after the incident said the get-away car(s) were stationed in advance and that Dunbar was an accomplice.
So either he flipped, as some are saying, or something does't add up.
I'm not trying to sound like an apologist here, but the whole case doesn't add up to me. Why would a 1st-round draft pick rob people of $750,000 of jewelry at a dice game? This sounds more like a set-up/shakedown to me.
Rich people that came from rough backgrounds get caught doing shit like this all the time.
I hear you guys, but if you recall, the police reports after the incident said the get-away car(s) were stationed in advance and that Dunbar was an accomplice.
So either he flipped, as some are saying, or something does't add up.
I'm not trying to sound like an apologist here, but the whole case doesn't add up to me. Why would a 1st-round draft pick rob people of $750,000 of jewelry at a dice game? This sounds more like a set-up/shakedown to me.
Rich people that came from rough backgrounds get caught doing shit like this all the time.
til the charges are resolved? We're not paying him in the meantime. The case against him clearly has some problems and there's still a chance he could beat it, or plead to misdemeanors. If so, he gets one more chance next year to show this coaching staff he means business and, if not, cut him then. Ya, the situation sucks but i don't see what we gain by cutting him now.
I’m willing to give the org heat for Baker being a lazy twerp, because there was smoke he was a lazy twerp in college.
But it’s a bridge too far to say the org could have predicted this.
literally no one on this thread has said the org could have or should have predicted this- just that he shouldn't have been drafted in the first place given the documented work ethic issues, or at least not drafted in the first round via trading picks to move up and get him.
Hey everyone...the Baker saga is basically over.....
All GMs make mistakes. But for all of the mistakes combined that DG made in your eyes, what supercedes that is his gutsy call to draft DJ. You cannot discount that.
I’m willing to give the org heat for Baker being a lazy twerp, because there was smoke he was a lazy twerp in college.
But it’s a bridge too far to say the org could have predicted this.
literally no one on this thread has said the org could have or should have predicted this- just that he shouldn't have been drafted in the first place given the documented work ethic issues, or at least not drafted in the first round via trading picks to move up and get him.
So then today’s developments have no bearing on whether he should or shouldn’t have need drafted then, right?
This is definitely strange. How Baker got charged and Dunbar got 0 charges? Baker has truly horrid lawyers. Alright clearly he will get cut but hopefully they prove he did 0 wrong, and hope for his sake he hires different lawyers to represent him.
I’m willing to give the org heat for Baker being a lazy twerp, because there was smoke he was a lazy twerp in college.
But it’s a bridge too far to say the org could have predicted this.
literally no one on this thread has said the org could have or should have predicted this- just that he shouldn't have been drafted in the first place given the documented work ethic issues, or at least not drafted in the first round via trading picks to move up and get him.
So then today’s developments have no bearing on whether he should or shouldn’t have need drafted then, right?
like probably many others, i was hoping baker's bad rookie year would be something to build on, and that he would mature and work hard and take his craft seriously.
today's developments suggest he's probably much closer to being cut than he is to being a building block for the future, and apparently much closer to going to prison than his lawyer intimated early on.
All GMs make mistakes. But for all of the mistakes combined that DG made in your eyes, what supercedes that is his gutsy call to draft DJ. You cannot discount that.
their own investigation, and at least getting tons of confidential intel not available to the public.
But over 50 years as a Giants fan, I've learned that while we want to picture the organization as efficient, on top of things, and well-run, it more often behaves like a hidebound mom-and-pop shop. Sometimes they transcend that when they are forced to, like when they put George Young in charge and brought in Ray Perkins. And sometimes they get lucky, like when they didn't get Howard Schnellenberger and so had to keep Bill Parcells. But most of the time, they're not really that effective. So I doubt they have found out much.
NFL Security, on the other hand? I suspect they're about one step short of the FBI in terms of finding shit out.
RE: Hey everyone...the Baker saga is basically over.....
All GMs make mistakes. But for all of the mistakes combined that DG made in your eyes, what supercedes that is his gutsy call to draft DJ. You cannot discount that.
While choosing Jones has so far shown to be a positive for the Giants, what that has to do with Baker getting charged is what now?
Actually waiting for the facts before making most decisions is a good policy to follow. Surely you re not suggesting it s bad policy when someone has been accused of a serious crime.
not a Giant
God I miss Mark Collins and Perry Williams
Well, I'm not sure those two belong in the same sentence. Perry Williams was a high character guy with blazing speed and played a role on two Super Bowl champion teams, but they didn't call him "Toast" for nothing.
Ralph Vacchiano
@RVacchianoSNY
·
1m
DeAndre Baker has withdrawn his appeal of the NFL's decision to place him on the Commissioner's exempt list, according to his attorney. ... With charges now filed against him, being on paid leave is probably the safest place for him to be in the NFL at the moment.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out...
With all the attention the case has received the DA's office may have felt cornered into moving ahead with a prosecution despite being short on enough evidence to get a conviction. I would not at all be surprised to see this pled down to some kind of suspended sentence or a sentence that would have him a free man by next year's training camp.
At the very least, this pretty much assures him of some kind of NFL suspension and frees the Giants of the remaining guaranteed dollars on his rookie deal.
RE: Hey everyone...the Baker saga is basically over.....
All GMs make mistakes. But for all of the mistakes combined that DG made in your eyes, what supercedes that is his gutsy call to draft DJ. You cannot discount that.
Irrelevant. And even if it wasn’t, this is a silly way to judge things.
Deandre Lamar Baker (born September 4, 1997) is an armed American football bank robber for the Miami Police Department of the National Football League.
not a Giant
God I miss Mark Collins and Perry Williams
Well, I'm not sure those two belong in the same sentence. Perry Williams was a high character guy with blazing speed and played a role on two Super Bowl champion teams, but they didn't call him "Toast" for nothing.
.
I think you have him confused with Elvis Patterson,
the epitome of "Toast".
Ralph Vacchiano
@RVacchianoSNY
·
1m
DeAndre Baker has withdrawn his appeal of the NFL's decision to place him on the Commissioner's exempt list, according to his attorney. ... With charges now filed against him, being on paid leave is probably the safest place for him to be in the NFL at the moment.
.
I recall his lawyer (Patel), saying this case would be
dropped, yeah okay. I'll tell you who should be dropped,
Baker from the Giants! Even though he is on the
Exempt List, just move on already.
The funny thing here, the Prosecution didn't pursue charges against Quinton Dunbar.
not a Giant
God I miss Mark Collins and Perry Williams
Well, I'm not sure those two belong in the same sentence. Perry Williams was a high character guy with blazing speed and played a role on two Super Bowl champion teams, but they didn't call him "Toast" for nothing.
.
I think you have him confused with Elvis Patterson,
the epitome of "Toast".
Not defending Baker in the least. His career has likely suffered a huge hit based on there being enough evidence to warrant a trial, but his guilt has not yet been determined. It's highly likely he did something stupid, leading to prosecution, but that doesn't mean that stupidity rises to guilt of charges.
Yep, I m not a huge fan of Baker based on his performance so far but this whole case has been strange from the start. Although I doubt that he ever plays another down in a Giant uniform he’s still innocent until proven guilty.
I'll tell you who should be dropped,
Baker from the Giants! Even though he is on the
Exempt List, just move on already.
I think they need to wait until the league suspends him if they want to avoid paying the guaranteed money remaining on his contract. I could be wrong about that. I was wrong about Perry Williams.
Baker because he's so similar to Bradberry. Btw, this whole case seems nutty and not sure he won't beat it.
Not so nutty to me. Baker robbed several people at gunpoint, paid them off to change their story until the DA threatened to charge them for changing their story and they folded. And it looks like Dunbar may have flipped as well to avoid prosecution. Pretty simple actually.
Pretty straightforward. But people want to make excuses because he is a Giant
just run shit into the ground, and will not let it go.
Japanhead is like the guy you went to high school with that loves to remind you of something dumb you did 20 years ago and manages to shoehorn it into any conversation.
The prosecutors screwed this up from the beginning and this is their attempt to save face. This way they can blame the jury and don't have to stand up and say they were duped. None of this story made the slightest sense from the beginning. Still doesn't.
The prosecution will have a hard time proving their case. You have witness part of a bribery scheme and supposed criminal history. Victims that have changed their story in sworn affadavits. Witnesses that haven't changed their story stating that baker didn't do what was alleged.
It is the burden of the prosecution to prove beyond reasonable doubt that baker committed these crimes. The defense doesn't have to prove innocence, just reasonable doubt that the alleged crimes never took place.
I am not a lawyer, but even I can create reasonable doubt.
If baker didn't do it, then it is very unfortunate that he has to go through all of this.
Case seems weak but with all the pub it drew and as long as they dragged out the investigation there was a lot of pressure to move forward imo. If Baker's attorneys can't extract reasonable doubt from this mess they aren't worth their salt. In the end I think he may just beat the rap.
Still it's likely his season is over which ever way this thing goes. Doubtful he plays for us or anyone else for that matter.
Case seems weak but with all the pub it drew and as long as they dragged out the investigation there was a lot of pressure to move forward imo. If Baker's attorneys can't extract reasonable doubt from this mess they aren't worth their salt. In the end I think he may just beat the rap.
Still it's likely his season is over which ever way this thing goes. Doubtful he plays for us or anyone else for that matter.
You assume it is going to trial. Here is Baker's problem- the case may be weak but there is no sure thing in a trial, it will cost 6 figures for his attorneys and if he rolls the dice and loses, it's 10 years minimum. Let's see what he gets for a plea deal but this is shaping up as a Plaxico situation.
The prosecutors screwed this up from the beginning and this is their attempt to save face. This way they can blame the jury and don't have to stand up and say they were duped. None of this story made the slightest sense from the beginning. Still doesn't.
But you left one thing out. In all likelihood, Dunbar rolled on Baker, under pressure from the prosecutors, to get off Scott free.
In the hands of good attorneys, that's not exactly the greatest evidence or witness for the prosecution IMHO.
Baker did this (allegedly) to himself. But at some point when you continue to preach culture and guys get arrested and the product on the field is a joke the buck stops with you. Gettleman and us fans need to be on our knees praying that Jones plays up to what we saw last year because that’s the only thing keeping us from being the NFC browns for the foreseeable future
RE: RE: RE: Bradford Cohen responds via Instagram and Ralph V
did I not see it coming that Gettleman would take the brunt of the blame here?
The brunt? One guy on the thread blaming Gettleman.
Just defend him and you'll cancel each other out.
You are about as good at math as you are keeping a handle, Googs.
japanhead, M.S and giantsfan84 is a little more than 1 poster.
But then again, truthfulness isn't a strong suit of yours. Not Googs, right?
Right.
And they weren’t blaming DG for what Baker did, just the pick. Reading must not be your strong suit. Are you able to get thru threads where DG is being criticized, fairly or unfairly, or is it too personal?
be seen as doing a pretty good job overall and being held accountable for picks not working out?
There was a pressing need for corners. Unfortunately Dave may have been influenced too much by Bettcher who was the one who really liked Beal and Baker from what I had read.
be seen as doing a pretty good job overall and being held accountable for picks not working out?
There was a pressing need for corners. Unfortunately Dave may have been influenced too much by Bettcher who was the one who really liked Beal and Baker from what I had read.
Your point re Gettleman is valid of course, but the DG haters see Baker as perhaps the last straw on the 🐪's back. It's easy to ignore Slayton and Connelly and Jones etc for them, and they still argue Saquon's selection was a poor allocation of resource.
But I fail to follow your arrow to Bettcher. Even if Bettcher was hot to trot for true man cover corners, Baker's (or Beal's, FTM) cover ability isn't the real issue. Baker won the coveted Thorpe Trophy as CFB's best DB, and if you listen to UGA media people talk about him, they say he's the best CB ever to have played at UGA!
You can't blame Bettcher for wanting those guys in the draft.
For Baker, the real blame of not digging into his personality and passing on him until some later round if at all lies on the SEC area scout. Those are the folks that are supposed to dig into the background of each player. DG is responsible for the ineptitude and laziness of the scout for the wide miss, and in any case the scout has since been fired.
Should DG have dug into Baker's character himself as a 1st round selection? Probably yes, but a GM has far more on his plate than individual players' psychological profile.
Not excusing DG here, but there's a limit to his fault in this, and even less so to Bettcher's culpability.
Fair points. Just a big hunch but I think Bettcher really pounded the table for Baker as he saw corner as a big need. Dave historically was not known to trade up so I wonder if the Bettcher influence pressed him a bit.
Regarding selection of players overall I am certain that Psychological assessments are a big part of it as it should be. This is true in many professions.
Baker was a 1st round pick, but barely ... so it looks like the Giants
hit big on their first 2 guys then took a flyer (on the best rated CB in the draft) and missed ... would the noise have been any less if they took him in the 2nd round ? ... btw, 2 other highly touted 2nd round guys were cut by teams yesterday ... shit happens and the draft involves its share of luck and good fortune... but if continuously blasting DG is your thing, so be it ... stupid is as stupid does.
ESPN's analytics chick, cited Baker as one of the best value picks (matching talent and production to team needs) in the first round and maybe the whole draft.
So the notion that Baker's work ethic issues were well known is BS.
But some folks knew...
Glad the Giants now have a coaching staff with lots of strong and close links to CFB. That may be a big factor in righting the ship, overall.
not a lot of choir boys on the other side of this whole thing. Best case is he is out for this season. Worst case (?) is he is gone and the Giants have another draft priority again (which they might have anyway).
The people that aren't fans of the GM are going to continue to blame him. Those that think he is pretty good (though not perfect), aren't. Not sure anyone's mind is going to be changed because it isn't really about this.
The prosecutors screwed this up from the beginning and this is their attempt to save face. This way they can blame the jury and don't have to stand up and say they were duped. None of this story made the slightest sense from the beginning. Still doesn't.
But you left one thing out. In all likelihood, Dunbar rolled on Baker, under pressure from the prosecutors, to get off Scott free.
In the hands of good attorneys, that's not exactly the greatest evidence or witness for the prosecution IMHO.
Not only Dunbar but the original accusers are highly questionable as well. But for me it’s the entire story that’s fishy. Makes little sense on a number of levels.
I’m not defending the guy if he actually did what he’s charged with but something doesn’t add up here ... and if it does, it makes the whole scenario all the more sad. Link - ( New Window )
He may be a professional football player, but he's an amateur criminal.
I'd be surprised if he didn't give the prosecutors all the evidence they needed with his tweets and loose lips. I'd also be surprised if he doesn't plead guilty to lesser charges.
If he were my teammate, I wouldn't keep my wallet in my locker and I'd want the Giants to install surveillance cameras.
The prosecution will have a hard time proving their case. You have witness part of a bribery scheme and supposed criminal history. Victims that have changed their story in sworn affadavits. Witnesses that haven't changed their story stating that baker didn't do what was alleged.
It is the burden of the prosecution to prove beyond reasonable doubt that baker committed these crimes. The defense doesn't have to prove innocence, just reasonable doubt that the alleged crimes never took place.
I am not a lawyer, but even I can create reasonable doubt.
If baker didn't do it, then it is very unfortunate that he has to go through all of this.
Technically true, but depends on the jury. Get the wrong jury and Baker will have to prove his innocence beyond a reasonable doubt.
Technically true, but depends on the jury. Get the wrong jury and Baker will have to prove his innocence beyond a reasonable doubt.
You only get the wrong jury if you already have the wrong lawyer. A good lawyer will make sure there are jurors who are sure to favor acquittal. A couple years ago I was under consideration as a juror on a gang-related murder trial and as liberal minded as I am, it was the defense attorney who de-selected me, not the prosecuting attorney. Maybe it was just the flirting that went on between me and the very attractive prosecutor when she was questioning me.
Example: Baker & Dunbar, both at game. Baker gets pissed starts robbing patrons - Dunbar says thing that may be supportive of Baker, but his actions fall short of the steps needed for the robbery.
not a Giant
God I miss Mark Collins and Perry Williams
Well, I'm not sure those two belong in the same sentence. Perry Williams was a high character guy with blazing speed and played a role on two Super Bowl champion teams, but they didn't call him "Toast" for nothing.
They didn’t call him “Toast” at all. That was Elvis Patterson.
And what a waste.
Link - ( New Window )
Big red flag - Baker does not call him as a witness.
I'm torn on that. Like I can't blame him for opting out, I don't know his reasons.
But how do you pass up this kind of opportunity. All he had to do is beat out Corey Ballentine and he was going to start at CB and potentially make himself millions upon millions if he played well. I don't know how you pass that up, and as an organization it would really rub me the wrong way, which I know isn't fair because he has every right to opt out, but man I don't know how he chose to opt out
hopefully they can recoup a lot of his bonus money for cap purposes.
maybe baker was the instigator and they flipped dunbar to testify in exchange for immunity?
gettleman has overseen a rebuild of what might currently be the worst defense in the league (easily the worst in the division), perilously thin at every position except DT.
Example: Baker & Dunbar, both at game. Baker gets pissed starts robbing patrons - Dunbar says thing that may be supportive of Baker, but his actions fall short of the steps needed for the robbery.
Traded back up into the first round for this guy.
We don't know why Beal opted out. No fault to him for doing so. He may have a family member who is immunocompromised or has an underlying medical condition that would likely exacerbate COVID - 19. His contract also gets extended for another year.
he traded multiple picks to move up into the first round to draft a player with notable work ethic issues, who is well on his way to becoming a convicted felon.
he also burned a 3rd rounder to draft perpetually injured sam beal in the supplemental.
slice it any way you want, gettleman's overseen the construction of a defense that's bottom of the league and looks to be getting worse.
I don't share your pessimistic view of this defense. They're rebuilding and have made some smart moves, and a few that were questionable
Quote:
unless there is off the field stuff indicating this type of behavior, hard to blame this on Gettleman.
he traded multiple picks to move up into the first round to draft a player with notable work ethic issues, who is well on his way to becoming a convicted felon.
he also burned a 3rd rounder to draft perpetually injured sam beal in the supplemental.
slice it any way you want, gettleman's overseen the construction of a defense that's bottom of the league and looks to be getting worse.
don't forget the burned 3rd and 5th rounders for LW
trading multiple picks for ogletree- whiff
trading multiple picks for leonard williams- whiff
trading multiple picks to draft baker- whiff
blowing a 3rd to draft beal in the supplemental- whiff
getting zero return for jenkins- whiff
not re-signing collins and getting peppers for cheap in the OBJ trade and playing the waiting game with golden are about the only moves i see that could be construed as 'smart.'
still can't see how it's anything other than a bottom three defense in the NFL from a talent standpoint.
lol
But didn't we hear that Georgia coaches suggested that sometimes they had to light a fire under Baker's ass?
If that's true AND the Giants knew about it pre-draft, then you could certainly question DG for the pick.
The brunt? One guy on the thread blaming Gettleman.
Just defend him and you'll cancel each other out.
So either he flipped, as some are saying, or something does't add up.
I'm not trying to sound like an apologist here, but the whole case doesn't add up to me. Why would a 1st-round draft pick rob people of $750,000 of jewelry at a dice game? This sounds more like a set-up/shakedown to me.
Not so nutty to me. Baker robbed several people at gunpoint, paid them off to change their story until the DA threatened to charge them for changing their story and they folded. And it looks like Dunbar may have flipped as well to avoid prosecution. Pretty simple actually.
Why shouldn’t he? Or at least a share,
I don't share your pessimistic view of this defense. They're rebuilding and have made some smart moves, and a few that were questionable
More like such weird, weird lawyers.
Quote:
Baker because he's so similar to Bradberry. Btw, this whole case seems nutty and not sure he won't beat it.
Not so nutty to me. Baker robbed several people at gunpoint, paid them off to change their story until the DA threatened to charge them for changing their story and they folded. And it looks like Dunbar may have flipped as well to avoid prosecution. Pretty simple actually.
Just to clarify, this is my speculation, who knows what actually happened.
So either he flipped, as some are saying, or something does't add up.
I'm not trying to sound like an apologist here, but the whole case doesn't add up to me. Why would a 1st-round draft pick rob people of $750,000 of jewelry at a dice game? This sounds more like a set-up/shakedown to me.
Rich people that came from rough backgrounds get caught doing shit like this all the time.
Quote:
I hear you guys, but if you recall, the police reports after the incident said the get-away car(s) were stationed in advance and that Dunbar was an accomplice.
So either he flipped, as some are saying, or something does't add up.
I'm not trying to sound like an apologist here, but the whole case doesn't add up to me. Why would a 1st-round draft pick rob people of $750,000 of jewelry at a dice game? This sounds more like a set-up/shakedown to me.
Rich people that came from rough backgrounds get caught doing shit like this all the time.
The reporting on this case has been awful.....
And says he will have a more formal statement later.
sny - ( New Window )
Still better than Rocky Thompson and Eldridge Small.
And says he will have a more formal statement later.
sny - ( New Window )
Nice spelling by the lawyer. "prosecutuon" "case filier"
And the 3rd rounder on Beal.
Getting zero return on any of those picks really hurts on a team devoid of talent.
Nice spelling by the lawyer. "prosecutuon" "case filier"
And hashtag "#judtice for some."
But he's got his more formal statement upcoming to clean up his spelling.
Giants probably won't cut Baker right away, but that doesn't mean they haven't written him off and won't now be angling to void his contract.
Do you guys really think Beal isn't aware of the opportunity? That he isn't weighing that against his personal situation?
But it’s a bridge too far to say the org could have predicted this.
But it’s a bridge too far to say the org could have predicted this.
literally no one on this thread has said the org could have or should have predicted this- just that he shouldn't have been drafted in the first place given the documented work ethic issues, or at least not drafted in the first round via trading picks to move up and get him.
Quote:
I’m willing to give the org heat for Baker being a lazy twerp, because there was smoke he was a lazy twerp in college.
But it’s a bridge too far to say the org could have predicted this.
literally no one on this thread has said the org could have or should have predicted this- just that he shouldn't have been drafted in the first place given the documented work ethic issues, or at least not drafted in the first round via trading picks to move up and get him.
So then today’s developments have no bearing on whether he should or shouldn’t have need drafted then, right?
Quote:
In comment 14945598 christian said:
Quote:
I’m willing to give the org heat for Baker being a lazy twerp, because there was smoke he was a lazy twerp in college.
But it’s a bridge too far to say the org could have predicted this.
literally no one on this thread has said the org could have or should have predicted this- just that he shouldn't have been drafted in the first place given the documented work ethic issues, or at least not drafted in the first round via trading picks to move up and get him.
So then today’s developments have no bearing on whether he should or shouldn’t have need drafted then, right?
like probably many others, i was hoping baker's bad rookie year would be something to build on, and that he would mature and work hard and take his craft seriously.
today's developments suggest he's probably much closer to being cut than he is to being a building block for the future, and apparently much closer to going to prison than his lawyer intimated early on.
Very true.
God I miss Mark Collins and Perry Williams
But over 50 years as a Giants fan, I've learned that while we want to picture the organization as efficient, on top of things, and well-run, it more often behaves like a hidebound mom-and-pop shop. Sometimes they transcend that when they are forced to, like when they put George Young in charge and brought in Ray Perkins. And sometimes they get lucky, like when they didn't get Howard Schnellenberger and so had to keep Bill Parcells. But most of the time, they're not really that effective. So I doubt they have found out much.
NFL Security, on the other hand? I suspect they're about one step short of the FBI in terms of finding shit out.
While choosing Jones has so far shown to be a positive for the Giants, what that has to do with Baker getting charged is what now?
Actually waiting for the facts before making most decisions is a good policy to follow. Surely you re not suggesting it s bad policy when someone has been accused of a serious crime.
I get where you re coming from,
God I miss Mark Collins and Perry Williams
What a shit show.
@RVacchianoSNY
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DeAndre Baker has withdrawn his appeal of the NFL's decision to place him on the Commissioner's exempt list, according to his attorney. ... With charges now filed against him, being on paid leave is probably the safest place for him to be in the NFL at the moment.
At the very least, this pretty much assures him of some kind of NFL suspension and frees the Giants of the remaining guaranteed dollars on his rookie deal.
Irrelevant. And even if it wasn’t, this is a silly way to judge things.
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not a Giant
God I miss Mark Collins and Perry Williams
Well, I'm not sure those two belong in the same sentence. Perry Williams was a high character guy with blazing speed and played a role on two Super Bowl champion teams, but they didn't call him "Toast" for nothing.
I think you have him confused with Elvis Patterson,
the epitome of "Toast".
@RVacchianoSNY
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1m
DeAndre Baker has withdrawn his appeal of the NFL's decision to place him on the Commissioner's exempt list, according to his attorney. ... With charges now filed against him, being on paid leave is probably the safest place for him to be in the NFL at the moment.
I recall his lawyer (Patel), saying this case would be
dropped, yeah okay. I'll tell you who should be dropped,
Baker from the Giants! Even though he is on the
Exempt List, just move on already.
The funny thing here, the Prosecution didn't pursue charges against Quinton Dunbar.
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In comment 14945623 Paulie Walnuts said:
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not a Giant
God I miss Mark Collins and Perry Williams
Well, I'm not sure those two belong in the same sentence. Perry Williams was a high character guy with blazing speed and played a role on two Super Bowl champion teams, but they didn't call him "Toast" for nothing.
.
I think you have him confused with Elvis Patterson,
the epitome of "Toast".
Never mind - ( New Window )
Not defending Baker in the least. His career has likely suffered a huge hit based on there being enough evidence to warrant a trial, but his guilt has not yet been determined. It's highly likely he did something stupid, leading to prosecution, but that doesn't mean that stupidity rises to guilt of charges.
Yep, I m not a huge fan of Baker based on his performance so far but this whole case has been strange from the start. Although I doubt that he ever plays another down in a Giant uniform he’s still innocent until proven guilty.
In 3 seasons, Beal missed 2.5 of them. Do you really need to know any more than that?
Wasted pick. Along with Baker
Baker from the Giants! Even though he is on the
Exempt List, just move on already.
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Baker because he's so similar to Bradberry. Btw, this whole case seems nutty and not sure he won't beat it.
Not so nutty to me. Baker robbed several people at gunpoint, paid them off to change their story until the DA threatened to charge them for changing their story and they folded. And it looks like Dunbar may have flipped as well to avoid prosecution. Pretty simple actually.
Pretty straightforward. But people want to make excuses because he is a Giant
Japanhead is like the guy you went to high school with that loves to remind you of something dumb you did 20 years ago and manages to shoehorn it into any conversation.
It is the burden of the prosecution to prove beyond reasonable doubt that baker committed these crimes. The defense doesn't have to prove innocence, just reasonable doubt that the alleged crimes never took place.
I am not a lawyer, but even I can create reasonable doubt.
If baker didn't do it, then it is very unfortunate that he has to go through all of this.
Still it's likely his season is over which ever way this thing goes. Doubtful he plays for us or anyone else for that matter.
He's been convicted?
Also don't get the vibe that Dunbar's attorney has any intention of offering his client as a favorable witness for Baker.
Message is: "We're out of this; call us at your risk."
miami herald - ( New Window )
Still it's likely his season is over which ever way this thing goes. Doubtful he plays for us or anyone else for that matter.
But you left one thing out. In all likelihood, Dunbar rolled on Baker, under pressure from the prosecutors, to get off Scott free.
In the hands of good attorneys, that's not exactly the greatest evidence or witness for the prosecution IMHO.
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did I not see it coming that Gettleman would take the brunt of the blame here?
The brunt? One guy on the thread blaming Gettleman.
Just defend him and you'll cancel each other out.
You are about as good at math as you are keeping a handle, Googs.
japanhead, M.S and giantsfan84 is a little more than 1 poster.
But then again, truthfulness isn't a strong suit of yours. Not Googs, right?
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Nice spelling by the lawyer. "prosecutuon" "case filier"
And hashtag "#judtice for some."
But he's got his more formal statement upcoming to clean up his spelling.
Giants probably won't cut Baker right away, but that doesn't mean they haven't written him off and won't now be angling to void his contract.
How do the Giants let Baker hire an attorney who can’t spell to defend himself of felony charges is a better question. They never saw Ray Donovan
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In comment 14945538 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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did I not see it coming that Gettleman would take the brunt of the blame here?
The brunt? One guy on the thread blaming Gettleman.
Just defend him and you'll cancel each other out.
You are about as good at math as you are keeping a handle, Googs.
japanhead, M.S and giantsfan84 is a little more than 1 poster.
But then again, truthfulness isn't a strong suit of yours. Not Googs, right?
Right.
And they weren’t blaming DG for what Baker did, just the pick. Reading must not be your strong suit. Are you able to get thru threads where DG is being criticized, fairly or unfairly, or is it too personal?
There was a pressing need for corners. Unfortunately Dave may have been influenced too much by Bettcher who was the one who really liked Beal and Baker from what I had read.
I've posted not less than a dozen times that I believe Gettleman has done more good than harm as Giants GM.
But just like his bone-head signing of Solder, he owns trading up into Round One for DeAndre Baker.
There was a pressing need for corners. Unfortunately Dave may have been influenced too much by Bettcher who was the one who really liked Beal and Baker from what I had read.
Your point re Gettleman is valid of course, but the DG haters see Baker as perhaps the last straw on the 🐪's back. It's easy to ignore Slayton and Connelly and Jones etc for them, and they still argue Saquon's selection was a poor allocation of resource.
But I fail to follow your arrow to Bettcher. Even if Bettcher was hot to trot for true man cover corners, Baker's (or Beal's, FTM) cover ability isn't the real issue. Baker won the coveted Thorpe Trophy as CFB's best DB, and if you listen to UGA media people talk about him, they say he's the best CB ever to have played at UGA!
You can't blame Bettcher for wanting those guys in the draft.
For Baker, the real blame of not digging into his personality and passing on him until some later round if at all lies on the SEC area scout. Those are the folks that are supposed to dig into the background of each player. DG is responsible for the ineptitude and laziness of the scout for the wide miss, and in any case the scout has since been fired.
Should DG have dug into Baker's character himself as a 1st round selection? Probably yes, but a GM has far more on his plate than individual players' psychological profile.
Not excusing DG here, but there's a limit to his fault in this, and even less so to Bettcher's culpability.
IMO.
Regarding selection of players overall I am certain that Psychological assessments are a big part of it as it should be. This is true in many professions.
So the notion that Baker's work ethic issues were well known is BS.
But some folks knew...
Glad the Giants now have a coaching staff with lots of strong and close links to CFB. That may be a big factor in righting the ship, overall.
The people that aren't fans of the GM are going to continue to blame him. Those that think he is pretty good (though not perfect), aren't. Not sure anyone's mind is going to be changed because it isn't really about this.
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The prosecutors screwed this up from the beginning and this is their attempt to save face. This way they can blame the jury and don't have to stand up and say they were duped. None of this story made the slightest sense from the beginning. Still doesn't.
But you left one thing out. In all likelihood, Dunbar rolled on Baker, under pressure from the prosecutors, to get off Scott free.
In the hands of good attorneys, that's not exactly the greatest evidence or witness for the prosecution IMHO.
Not only Dunbar but the original accusers are highly questionable as well. But for me it’s the entire story that’s fishy. Makes little sense on a number of levels.
Link - ( New Window )
I'd be surprised if he didn't give the prosecutors all the evidence they needed with his tweets and loose lips. I'd also be surprised if he doesn't plead guilty to lesser charges.
If he were my teammate, I wouldn't keep my wallet in my locker and I'd want the Giants to install surveillance cameras.
It is the burden of the prosecution to prove beyond reasonable doubt that baker committed these crimes. The defense doesn't have to prove innocence, just reasonable doubt that the alleged crimes never took place.
I am not a lawyer, but even I can create reasonable doubt.
If baker didn't do it, then it is very unfortunate that he has to go through all of this.
Technically true, but depends on the jury. Get the wrong jury and Baker will have to prove his innocence beyond a reasonable doubt.
Technically true, but depends on the jury. Get the wrong jury and Baker will have to prove his innocence beyond a reasonable doubt.
Example: Baker & Dunbar, both at game. Baker gets pissed starts robbing patrons - Dunbar says thing that may be supportive of Baker, but his actions fall short of the steps needed for the robbery.
Agreed. He needs to pay for it.
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not a Giant
God I miss Mark Collins and Perry Williams
Well, I'm not sure those two belong in the same sentence. Perry Williams was a high character guy with blazing speed and played a role on two Super Bowl champion teams, but they didn't call him "Toast" for nothing.
They didn’t call him “Toast” at all. That was Elvis Patterson.