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Stapleton: Giants to sign Ross Cockrell

Defenderdawg : 8/8/2020 7:30 pm


Art Stapleton
⁦‪@art_stapleton‬⁩


I’m told #NYGiants plan to sign CB Ross Cockrell provided he clears camp-entry COVID-19 testing, per source.
Cockrell visited today.
So there’s at least one veteran corner set to come aboard after DeAndre Baker was formally charged + Sam Beal opted out.

8/8/20, 7:28 PM
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Eric  
robbieballs2003 : 8/9/2020 10:17 am : link
is Ryan better? When I look up how they have played the last few years I can make the argument that Cockrell has been better.
This  
AcidTest : 8/9/2020 10:39 am : link
is an excellent signing. As others have noted, he's been effective outside and in the slot. He's also much cheaper than someone like Ryan.
RE: Eric  
Eric on Li : 8/9/2020 10:48 am : link
In comment 14946443 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
is Ryan better? When I look up how they have played the last few years I can make the argument that Cockrell has been better.


Ryan was certainly more dynamic if you look at his big play production and he's got 1 extra layer of versatility having played safety before.

4 ints / 18 passes defensed
4 FF
4.5 sacks
4 TFL's
8 QB hits (which would have been as many as anyone on our roster except LW, MG, and Carter).

That amount of turnovers and negative offensive plays probably stacks up with any defensive player in football last year.

Whether the pro bowl alternate/top 100 stuff is more name recognition that goes along with those big plays, or legitimate I don't know. If his tackling and coverage took a step back on the other 99% of snaps he played as PFF says I can understand the hesitation at signing him over the risk that perhaps the big play production was a little flukey.
RE: RE: Eric  
robbieballs2003 : 8/9/2020 10:52 am : link
In comment 14946465 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 14946443 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


is Ryan better? When I look up how they have played the last few years I can make the argument that Cockrell has been better.



Ryan was certainly more dynamic if you look at his big play production and he's got 1 extra layer of versatility having played safety before.

4 ints / 18 passes defensed
4 FF
4.5 sacks
4 TFL's
8 QB hits (which would have been as many as anyone on our roster except LW, MG, and Carter).

That amount of turnovers and negative offensive plays probably stacks up with any defensive player in football last year.

Whether the pro bowl alternate/top 100 stuff is more name recognition that goes along with those big plays, or legitimate I don't know. If his tackling and coverage took a step back on the other 99% of snaps he played as PFF says I can understand the hesitation at signing him over the risk that perhaps the big play production was a little flukey.


Correct. He has a big advantage in big plays but also gave up the most passing yards of any DB and was targeted the most. Great DBs don't get targeted a ton. He had like 20 kissed tackles last year as well.
Kissed tackles ... I hope not with covid happening.  
robbieballs2003 : 8/9/2020 10:53 am : link
lol, obviously missed.
some context on those logan ryan numbers  
Eric on Li : 8/9/2020 10:56 am : link
among all defensive players last year those numbers qualify as:

6th most in FF behind just TJ Watt, Barrett, Chandler Jones, Mack, and Ryan Anderson.
13th best in INT (league leaders had 6)
3rd most passes defensed behind Gilmore and Carlton Davis
most QB hits + sacks among DBs

if you add that all up it amounts to 38 negative plays which like I said is probably highest among all DB's and maybe even all defensive players.

but there were 1000+ other snaps he played that are a huge part of his evaluation we can't evaluate as easily.
no disagreement Robbie - just pointing out Ryan is more dynamic  
Eric on Li : 8/9/2020 10:58 am : link
which may mean more upside. The missed tackles and poorer coverage grades may also mean more downside to go along with more $ cost.

I would have understood NYG either way and would have been happy to sign either player (even both) on team friendly contracts.
.  
arcarsenal : 8/9/2020 11:03 am : link
Given where we are in the offseason, this is a solid move. Cockrell seemed relatively reliable when he was here in 2017(?) - it's decent depth.

Obviously it's not Logan Ryan, but it's a vet who has been around and should be able to step in and not be a disaster if we need him.

If he winds up on the field a lot, that's not a good sign. But, in a pinch, we could do worse.
yeah, that is why I said I could make the argument  
robbieballs2003 : 8/9/2020 11:03 am : link
and did not flat out say Cockrell is better. If I am running a defense I don't want basically an all or nothing guy in Ryan at this stage especially for the price tag he supposedly wants. If I am Graham I want players doing their job and a lot of time a good DB is like a good OL, if you don't hear their name that is a good thing. Tennessee was 24th in passing YPG last year. I was interested in Ryan but the more I look into it I am happier with Cockrell. He has size, speed, experience, flexibility, and is familiar with us. And the price should be much cheaper than Ryan. I wonder if it is a multi-year deal or not.
I don’t understand how anyone can argue against the Cockrell signing.  
Ivan15 : 8/9/2020 11:10 am : link
On other threads, it has been argued that signing veterans to fill gaps isn’t worth the cap space, and that the Giants should be developing younger players until the team is competitive a couple of years down the road. At this point, with a lot of 2-year and 3-year players, the team needs to show some improvement, at least to encourage those players to stick around and put out the effort to move forward. We need more than another 4-5 win season. We need a 7-9 win season to show future FAs that this team is going to be a regular playoff caliber team.

Cockrell is a very serviceable player, solid depth at worst, who should not cost very much money and is not a long term contract.. Even if he has to be starting on the outside, he is better than some schlub who would be the weak link of the defense, no matter how the scheme tries to hide him.
And this is a signing that I feel almost everyone should be happy  
robbieballs2003 : 8/9/2020 11:10 am : link
about. This still should not put a big our cap space for the crowd that wants to preserve our cap space for next year. This should be viewed as a positive for those that felt we needed another CB on the roster that is reliable. This also should be viewed as a positive for those that want to allow the young kids to play. If someone like Ballentine steps up then Cockrell should not be blocking (pun intended) him from playing. Same for Holmes.

I also like that article I posted that states how Belichick doesn't view DBs as starters. He looks at them as players. We have heard Judge and Graham say they will be multiple and part of that means matching up on the backend. It'll be like remember the Titans when the DB couldn't keep up with the WR and they changed players.
Cockrell  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/9/2020 11:29 am : link
actually played pretty darn well for us in 2017.
RE: Wow. This is interesting.  
kinard : 8/9/2020 11:35 am : link
In comment 14946289 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:


Quote:


Daniel Jones and Ross Cockrell both attended Charlotte Latin High School.

Daniel Jones & Ross Cockrell both are Duke Blue Devils.

Yes - definitely a noteworthy factoid.

Daniel Jones & Ross Cockrell are both New York Giants now.

Why  
larryinnewhaven : 8/9/2020 1:28 pm : link
was this kid on the street? Everyone needs CB help.
Sy's review from the Arizona 2017 game  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/9/2020 1:45 pm : link
Ross Cockrell continues to show he deserves a long term spot on this team, meaning he needs to be on this team in 2018. He brought in 2 interceptions, both of which he showed excellent body control and ball skills, 1 of which was in the end zone. This will be one of the major positives that comes out of the 2017 season; he has played exceptionally well and has steadily improved with the more playing time he got.
Sy's review from the 2nd Redskins game in 2017  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/9/2020 1:46 pm : link
In all honesty with no bias, Ross Cockrell may have played the CB position better than anyone in the NFL over the past 4 weeks. While he hasn’t been overly tested when it comes to quality of his opponent, Cockrell has been dominant. He broke up 4 passes and intercepted another one. He is in the running for a starting job next year and it would be a help when it comes to their approach in FA and the draft if they know he is gonna be the guy.
Why wasn't he kept around?  
LBH15 : 8/9/2020 2:58 pm : link
Agree he was one of the few bright spots that 2017 season and its not like the pass defense had too much talent.
Robbie - I looked back at NE and MIA snap counts last year  
Eric on Li : 8/9/2020 3:29 pm : link
and both had an immense number of DB's on the field each week.

Both had 11-12 DBs on the 53 with almost all of them being active each game. Both also had like 8 different players playing significant snaps each game (30-40%+). Graham was playing 5 guys defined as safeties that many snaps each game.

So for this roster, before any injuries hit, we are probably looking at:

1. Bradberry (every snap he's healthy for)
2. Peppers (every snap he's healthy for)
3. McKinney (even as a rookie probably every snap he's healthy for)
4. Love (a lot of snaps in some kind of safety role)
5. Holmes (as many CB snaps as he can handle - likely primary nickel)
6. Cockerill (whatever outside or inside snaps 4 & 5 can't handle)
7. Balentine (depth outside snaps)
8. Williamson (depth snaps wherever he fits best)
9. Hartage (seems like a Graham guy so I wouldn't be shocked if he ends up playing more than 7 & 8)
10. Haley (I really hope someone knocks him off the roster)
11. Askew (who knows)
12. Ebner (STs)

I think there was room for another DB before Baker + Beal went out of the picture since there's always an injury or 2, so once they did a signing like Cockerill was necessary. Had they signed Logan Ryan he'd have had the upside to slot in at #2 or 3 and played every snap he was healthy for. I doubt they go for Ryan after adding Cockerill but another pickup may be necessary depending on their feelings on some of the young guys they've signed. They'd also tried to claim the CB who played with Graham in Miami a few weeks ago so I suspect we will continue to see a little bit of churn with those last couple DB spots.
RE: Why wasn't he kept around?  
Mike in NY : 8/9/2020 3:33 pm : link
In comment 14946644 LBH15 said:
Quote:
Agree he was one of the few bright spots that 2017 season and its not like the pass defense had too much talent.


I believe he signed as a UFA for more money than the Giants were comfortable paying him.
I remember those reviews Eric  
Dave on the UWS : 8/9/2020 3:39 pm : link
why didn’t they hold onto the guy? Apple being here shouldn’t have been a deterrent.
I read that they didn't think he was a fit for Bettcher's  
robbieballs2003 : 8/9/2020 3:43 pm : link
press man system. Haha. If we only knew we'd barely be pressing anyway.
RE: I read that they didn't think he was a fit for Bettcher's  
LBH15 : 8/9/2020 4:42 pm : link
In comment 14946676 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
press man system. Haha. If we only knew we'd barely be pressing anyway.


Bettcher’s system wasn’t a good fit for the Giants. Unfortunately the last few guys in here haven’t either.

Bettcher was such a disaster  
Eric on Li : 8/9/2020 4:42 pm : link
at least Shurmur had some positive contribution towards the future the remains with Jones. Bettcher was a turd from beginning to end and literally every guy he brought over from AZ sucked except Golden.
RE: RE: Why wasn't he kept around?  
LBH15 : 8/9/2020 4:47 pm : link
In comment 14946667 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 14946644 LBH15 said:


Quote:


Agree he was one of the few bright spots that 2017 season and its not like the pass defense had too much talent.



I believe he signed as a UFA for more money than the Giants were comfortable paying him.


Guys like Jonathan Stewart were the priority back then I guess.
RE: RE: I read that they didn't think he was a fit for Bettcher's  
Mike in NY : 8/9/2020 4:53 pm : link
In comment 14946738 LBH15 said:
Quote:
In comment 14946676 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


press man system. Haha. If we only knew we'd barely be pressing anyway.



Bettcher’s system wasn’t a good fit for the Giants. Unfortunately the last few guys in here haven’t either.


I didn't realize Bettcher had a system
Bettcher's a mystery  
bc4life : 8/9/2020 4:53 pm : link
real riches to rags story.

Admittedly, he had some decent talent in AZ, but still his Giant tenure - lot of confusion, blown coverages, questionable schemes

failed to retain a talented player in Cockrell and didn't develop the players he retained. I'd love to hear from the players what went on with that defense
Mike in NY  
bc4life : 8/9/2020 4:54 pm : link
He had one in Arizona
RE: RE: RE: Why wasn't he kept around?  
christian : 8/9/2020 5:08 pm : link
In comment 14946743 LBH15 said:
Quote:
Guys like Jonathan Stewart were the priority back then I guess.


If you take a spin in the time machine, there is a fabulous quote in a Jonathan Stewart thread on the relative value of Cockrell vs. Stewart.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Why wasn't he kept around?  
LBH15 : 8/9/2020 5:17 pm : link
In comment 14946752 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 14946743 LBH15 said:


Quote:


Guys like Jonathan Stewart were the priority back then I guess.



If you take a spin in the time machine, there is a fabulous quote in a Jonathan Stewart thread on the relative value of Cockrell vs. Stewart.


Fill us in
the  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/9/2020 6:39 pm : link
Panthers signed him as UFA to 2-Years, $6.8 million contract.
He  
PaulN : 8/9/2020 6:46 pm : link
Has started and played well on the outside, but there idiots here to despute facts, BBI is becoming a breading ground for sport no nothings with no desire to look for facts, when you can bitch and try to sound like you know something by reading other idiots nonsense, Logan Ryan is a slot corner who has played on the outside some, Cockrell an outside corner who has played plenty of slot also, but we are in trouble if he has to play outside, ok then, brilliant, don't let the stats get into your way, follow it up with some Gettleman bashing, must be smart if he is bashing Gettleman.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Why wasn't he kept around?  
christian : 8/9/2020 7:14 pm : link
In comment 14946754 LBH15 said:
Quote:

If you take a spin in the time machine, there is a fabulous quote in a Jonathan Stewart thread on the relative value of Cockrell vs. Stewart.

Fill us in


The names have been removed to protect the innocent. As noted Stewart and Cockrell signed nearly identical contracts that offseason. Both guys ended up on IR for most/all of '18, Cockrell was able to book a respectable year as a part time starter in '19. I think Stewart might be a rapper now?

Quote:

Ross Cockerell
-------- : 7/10/2018 4:39 pm : link : reply
signed for the exact same money 2/6.8 million

I don't see how anyone can seriously argue that Giants are better off with JS than RC.

Are you kidding me???
------ -- --------- : 7/11/2018 8:20 am : link
Ross Cockrell makes us a better team? Stewart at least fills a need we've sorely been lacking - a goal line/short yardage runner.

Exactly what role does Cockrell fill? 4th or 5th CB??
Im quite ok with the Giants bringing Cockrell back  
Jonesin 4 A Ship : 8/10/2020 7:54 am : link
Didnt see a link posted for this film study yet, so if it was posted already I apologize.
Cockrell Film Study from BigBlueView - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Why wasn't he kept around?  
LBH15 : 8/10/2020 9:01 am : link
In comment 14946803 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 14946754 LBH15 said:


Quote:



If you take a spin in the time machine, there is a fabulous quote in a Jonathan Stewart thread on the relative value of Cockrell vs. Stewart.

Fill us in



The names have been removed to protect the innocent. As noted Stewart and Cockrell signed nearly identical contracts that offseason. Both guys ended up on IR for most/all of '18, Cockrell was able to book a respectable year as a part time starter in '19. I think Stewart might be a rapper now?



Quote:



Ross Cockerell
-------- : 7/10/2018 4:39 pm : link : reply
signed for the exact same money 2/6.8 million

I don't see how anyone can seriously argue that Giants are better off with JS than RC.

Are you kidding me???
------ -- --------- : 7/11/2018 8:20 am : link
Ross Cockrell makes us a better team? Stewart at least fills a need we've sorely been lacking - a goal line/short yardage runner.

Exactly what role does Cockrell fill? 4th or 5th CB??



The team sorely needed a short yardage runner? I think the Giants lead the league in short runs each year.
Both Cockrell & Stewart then & now were insignificant $ depth players  
Eric on Li : 8/10/2020 9:50 am : link
both got hurt that particular year so any game of gotcha isn't really all that revealing. Stewart's shelf life expired earlier because he plays RB and had a lot more tread on the tires, but he was not much different than Dion Lewis now (Lewis has less wear and tear). As Cockrell now isn't that much different than RW McQuarters (07) or Deon Grant ('10) or Keith Bullock ('10), or Leon Hall (16) or Antoine Bethea (18). Some vets towards the end of the road work out and some don't.

Right now in the present without the benefit of hindsight I don't think there's a wildly different value between Cockrell or Lewis either - as the league doesn't since their $ is likely similar. They are depth players we are hoping don't have to see significant time - and that's how all of the above were paid too, with some contributing more than expected and others contributing less.
Patch it up for 2020  
JonC : 8/10/2020 9:58 am : link
Perhaps DG gets desperate soon, but not seeing a Logan Ryan in the cards otherwise.
RE: RE: RE: Why wasn't he kept around?  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/10/2020 10:06 am : link
In comment 14946743 LBH15 said:
Quote:
In comment 14946667 Mike in NY said:


Quote:


In comment 14946644 LBH15 said:


Quote:


Agree he was one of the few bright spots that 2017 season and its not like the pass defense had too much talent.



I believe he signed as a UFA for more money than the Giants were comfortable paying him.



Guys like Jonathan Stewart were the priority back then I guess.


I see that handles may change but that fixations stay the same....
...  
christian : 8/10/2020 10:09 am : link
Cockrell actually played pretty good ball and worked his way into the Panthers starting lineup for 11 games last year post injury. He had a really decent 55% completion against and 69 rating against on 67 targets. He’s a good bet to start opposite Bradberry. He’s also many years younger than all of the players you noted.

When the Panthers signed him, he was entering his 5th year in the NFL and 26-years-old. He was in a much different part of his career than Stewart. It’s no surprise he’s still a relevant NFL player and Stewart is, whatever Stewart is.
RE: Im quite ok with the Giants bringing Cockrell back  
chick310 : 8/10/2020 10:10 am : link
In comment 14946958 Jonesin 4 A Ship said:
Quote:
Didnt see a link posted for this film study yet, so if it was posted already I apologize. Cockrell Film Study from BigBlueView - ( New Window )


Cockrell is more than adequate to play in the Giant secondary. Read that he had a pretty brutal injury in the 2018 so 2019 year was a nice comeback.
RE: RE: Im quite ok with the Giants bringing Cockrell back  
christian : 8/10/2020 10:16 am : link
In comment 14947008 chick310 said:
Quote:
In comment 14946958 Jonesin 4 A Ship said:


Quote:


Didnt see a link posted for this film study yet, so if it was posted already I apologize. Cockrell Film Study from BigBlueView - ( New Window )



Cockrell is more than adequate to play in the Giant secondary. Read that he had a pretty brutal injury in the 2018 so 2019 year was a nice comeback.


It’s a good signing. Gettleman is doing a nice job picking up one year deals for vets who should crack the lineup, contribute, and give the younger players time to develop.
RE: ...  
Eric on Li : 8/10/2020 10:29 am : link
In comment 14947007 christian said:
Quote:
Cockrell actually played pretty good ball and worked his way into the Panthers starting lineup for 11 games last year post injury. He had a really decent 55% completion against and 69 rating against on 67 targets. He’s a good bet to start opposite Bradberry. He’s also many years younger than all of the players you noted.

When the Panthers signed him, he was entering his 5th year in the NFL and 26-years-old. He was in a much different part of his career than Stewart. It’s no surprise he’s still a relevant NFL player and Stewart is, whatever Stewart is.


He's 29. McQuarters was 30, Grant was 31, Leon Hall was 32. All were hanging on for their last few years and Cockerill is probably in that category now.

And going back 2 years I wouldn't blame any new regime for letting any player from the 2017 roster walk. If anything they tried too hard to salvage guys like Apple/Flowers (though there weren't too many alternatives). It is the same revisionist history some have with Devon Kennard. They may have had some moments here and since, and may have even been nice depth additions this past offseason, but neither was or will ever be more than that.
...  
christian : 8/10/2020 10:41 am : link
There’s nothing revisionist about the truth — both players went on to be unspectacular starters on other unspectacular teams — while the Giants are still struggling to man those positions. If healthy Cockrell and Kennard would have been starters on the 2018 and 2019 Giants. Cockrell has a shot to be the 2020 starter.

I think Cockrell has more tread than any of the players you listed — because he got a late start and missed the year with his knee he’s only got 5 years of wear and tear on his body, and looked fully recovered from his knee last year.

what's revisionist is that everyone wanted the roster blown up post-17  
Eric on Li : 8/10/2020 10:59 am : link
and most wanted it dynamited a lot more than it was. New regimes rarely retain previous regime's depth players in any sport. They turn over rosters and that's exactly what was needed in the case of 2017-2018.

And many (myself included) bought into some level of Bettcher hype. Only with hindsight of Bettcher's Arizona transplants (and really every aspect of what he did) not working out was it a mistake to not retain marginal depth players who left via FA.
I don’t think Giants would have signed him  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 8/10/2020 12:03 pm : link
If they believed he was a slot corner only.
He's better in sub packages inside  
JonC : 8/10/2020 12:06 pm : link
but right now he might be the most proven CB behind Bradberry. Ballantine has the physical gifts, but needs reps and teaching, stat. Small school kids have a bigger leap to make it in the NFL.
...  
christian : 8/10/2020 12:45 pm : link
The stats don't tell everything -- but Cockrell played a lot of snaps the last 3/4 of the season, and the vast majority were outside (87%).

He had respectable production numbers (8 PD, 2 INTs) and pretty decent coverage numbers (55% completion against, 69 rating against).

He's not the future, but he's a good get this late in the process.
NY Giants CB Ross Cockrell Highlights 2017-2019  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/10/2020 12:51 pm : link
...


NY Giants CB Ross Cockrell Highlights 2017-2019 - ( New Window )
He's bacccck  
Carson53 : 8/10/2020 6:43 pm : link
didn't do a bad job here before. he's okay.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Why wasn't he kept around?  
LBH15 : 8/10/2020 7:07 pm : link
In comment 14947005 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 14946743 LBH15 said:


Quote:


In comment 14946667 Mike in NY said:


Quote:


In comment 14946644 LBH15 said:


Quote:


Agree he was one of the few bright spots that 2017 season and its not like the pass defense had too much talent.



I believe he signed as a UFA for more money than the Giants were comfortable paying him.



Guys like Jonathan Stewart were the priority back then I guess.



I see that handles may change but that fixations stay the same....


Huh, what's bothering you now?

Let me ponder a guess, you defended the decision by DG to sign a washed-up Stewart?
RE: He's better in sub packages inside  
chick310 : 8/11/2020 7:10 am : link
In comment 14947081 JonC said:
Quote:
but right now he might be the most proven CB behind Bradberry. Ballantine has the physical gifts, but needs reps and teaching, stat. Small school kids have a bigger leap to make it in the NFL.


Cockrell went right to the top of the BBI Depth Chart at cornerback. Giants sound like they will have 3 new faces starting at CB when and if the season begins.
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