no discussion who they are going to take. Anak was just trying to convince himself of something that was never going to happen so if the Rangers didnt win the lottery he wouldnt be as pissed
Oh and btw. For the conspiracy theorists out there.
1) In 2005, the Rangers had exactly the same probability of the #1 pick as the Penguins. The Penguins got Crosby and the Rangers had the lowest pick from all of the teams with the number of balls the Rangers have.
2) The Edmonton Oilers don't move the revenue needle for the league, won the lotto 3 times in 3 or 4 years.
3) The NJ Devils don't move the revenue needle for the league, won the lotto twice in 2 or 3 years.
4) The Rangers got the #2 pick last year, if the lotto was rigged they would have gotten the #1 pick instead of the small market Devils, not like it would raise more eyebrows than the #2 pick.
Rangers fans whine about how every other franchise had a horseshoe up their ass. The last two drafts were pretty horseshoe ish
Yes. We've been spoiled with the likes of Bobby Sanguinetti, Dylan McIlrath, and Michael Del Zotto in recent memory. Yeah, we're crushing it over here with 1 cup in an almost a 100 year span. Sorry.
Rangers fans whine about how every other franchise had a horseshoe up their ass. The last two drafts were pretty horseshoe ish
Fair enough. Meanwhile, Lafreniere actually looks like a young man. Quite the difference from Jack Hughes last year, who looked like he was a day removed from his Bar Mitzvah.
I was really good friends with this girl I worked with back in 2014 who was an ex-Falcons cheerleader and shows up on news channels and stuff, just your classic absurdly hot blonde girl.
She met MDZ one night at some club, wouldn't go home with him, and one day I got a text from her of 4 (four!) screenshots from "Mike Hockey" of him send endless "u up?", "come to Philly I'll get you a cab" texts without her ever responding back.
Neither here nor there but funny either way. Like c'mon bro, you're an NHL player, you can't get laid by some model hot girl in your own town?
RE: RE: That NMC clause on Kreider is gonna be tricky
I was really good friends with this girl I worked with back in 2014 who was an ex-Falcons cheerleader and shows up on news channels and stuff, just your classic absurdly hot blonde girl.
She met MDZ one night at some club, wouldn't go home with him, and one day I got a text from her of 4 (four!) screenshots from "Mike Hockey" of him send endless "u up?", "come to Philly I'll get you a cab" texts without her ever responding back.
Neither here nor there but funny either way. Like c'mon bro, you're an NHL player, you can't get laid by some model hot girl in your own town?
Same exact time frame also. I'd be on the subway with her back before every station had WiFi, we'd be at Union Sq and she'd just get like 3 texts from Del Zotto hit her inbox and be like "hes sooo fucking annoying"
No lie, I knew some girl as well who Del Zotto was sticking it to down in Texas. Seems as if this guy had a fondness for luring women into sleeping with him by showing highlights of him playing shitty hockey.
(The 2012 series vs the Devils must've been the one that fastened his chances)
I read online LaFreniere can play RW, not sure if that's accurate, but he shoots lefty so maybe? Pjacs, got any insight into that?
In any case, what an awesome problem to have!
My friend proposed this:
Kreider + Deangelo + Carolina's 1st + Chytil for Jack Eichel
Doesn't Kreider already have a NMC, or can be he be traded before the extension kicks in?
He has a NMC, so he'd have to waive it
I don’t think we need more stars at this point. The pieces are there for a cup run as soon as two years from now. Just can’t make a mistake with Managing the defense Budget because windows open and close quickly in this league.
Does this change the view on buying out hank? They need to protect as much of the 2021-2022 payroll as much as possible. Also I assume we don’t need to ‘protect’ lefreniere or kakko in the Seattle expansion draft.
A Del Zotto/Tony DeAngelo pairing would've been epic on and off the
I read online LaFreniere can play RW, not sure if that's accurate, but he shoots lefty so maybe? Pjacs, got any insight into that?
In any case, what an awesome problem to have!
My friend proposed this:
Kreider + Deangelo + Carolina's 1st + Chytil for Jack Eichel
Doesn't Kreider already have a NMC, or can be he be traded before the extension kicks in?
He has a NMC, so he'd have to waive it
Does this change the view on buying out hank? They need to protect as much of the 2021-2022 payroll as much as possible. Also I assume we don’t need to ‘protect’ lefreniere or kakko in the Seattle expansion draft.
The new rumor is that Henrik would retire from the NHL and go back to Sweden to play with his brother at Frolunda.
And no, Laf and Kakko are exempt. No need to protect them.
And as much as I like giving Anak shit, he's not completely crazy about Byfield.
Yes, with all the current data it's Lafreniere hands down, BUT the junior hockey season may startup before the draft is even held and a 6'5" center who's a year younger than Lafreniere might have a chance to close the gap. Scouts will certainly be watching closely.
Good shit either way.
RE: RE: That NMC clause on Kreider is gonna be tricky
And as much as I like giving Anak shit, he's not completely crazy about Byfield.
Yes, with all the current data it's Lafreniere hands down, BUT the junior hockey season may startup before the draft is even held and a 6'5" center who's a year younger than Lafreniere might have a chance to close the gap. Scouts will certainly be watching closely.
Good shit either way.
The kid is a star, no reason to get cute and draft a project center when Lafreniere is sitting there as the clear number 1. Dumb conversation.
She screwed him at least once before. He wouldn't be running that effort if she hadn't. Haha.
Lmao, who knows, maybe. But getting hit on by athletes or absurdly rich people wasn't a new thing for her, so weirdly I don't think he'd even register on the "fame-fucker" scale. Besides, I think MDZ being a tool is the bigger part of those texts. When I say endless, I mean like 30-40 unanswered texts lol
RE: RE: RE: That NMC clause on Kreider is gonna be tricky
And as much as I like giving Anak shit, he's not completely crazy about Byfield.
Yes, with all the current data it's Lafreniere hands down, BUT the junior hockey season may startup before the draft is even held and a 6'5" center who's a year younger than Lafreniere might have a chance to close the gap. Scouts will certainly be watching closely.
Good shit either way.
The kid is a star, no reason to get cute and draft a project center when Lafreniere is sitting there as the clear number 1. Dumb conversation.
Point being, maybe he doesn't look like so much of a project when he's playing a Jr season at the age Lafreniere was last year.
I don't really give a shit, they're gonna get a stud either way.
If Byfield does close the gap it's a choice between a Svechnikov/Draisaitl type or a Malkin/Getzlaf type. Fuckin sign me up either way.
So flabbergasted had to verify it at ESPN. Holy crap! Two years in a row we get one? And the raffle isn't crooked? Well, either way, I thank the Hockey Gods.
I read online LaFreniere can play RW, not sure if that's accurate, but he shoots lefty so maybe? Pjacs, got any insight into that?
In any case, what an awesome problem to have!
He can absolutely play off wing. Forwards flipping R to L or vice versa is commonplace.
I think he can play C too, but hasn't and it's rare for a W to move to C at the NHL level (though it's happened - Claude Giroux for one). I think he'll be a wing, but if they try him at C I wouldn't be shocked even a little. And I think he'll do well if they try it.
When we need a game winning goal (similarly to Kane and Messier in the SC game winners) I'll be ready. I'm looking for clutch plays from big names. Missing since 1997.
TV $$$$$
NHL is scared. Rangers are like the Dallas Cowboys of hockey.
If you are a Rangers fanatic on this board, please don't be a hippocrite and trash the Cowboys.
TV $$$$$
NHL is scared. Rangers are like the Dallas Cowboys of hockey.
If you are a Rangers fanatic on this board, please don't be a hippocrite and trash the Cowboys.
Ya the league really had the Rangers back, especially in their 2012 and 2014 playoff runs. Thank you for interfering in this discussion. We'll take it from here, Dwight.
TV $$$$$
NHL is scared. Rangers are like the Dallas Cowboys of hockey.
If you are a Rangers fanatic on this board, please don't be a hippocrite and trash the Cowboys.
Five years ago and before COVID. It's all different now. It's a business. NBC TV $$ loves this draft. Hope your team ends-up with the same success as Dallas.
is Patrick Kane...he'll be good. My brother in law-Chicago native-is a huge Blackhawks fan & he pushed to name their third son Patrick in honor of Patrick Kane. My sister & him settled on Matthew Patrick, Haha.
TV $$$$$
NHL is scared. Rangers are like the Dallas Cowboys of hockey.
If you are a Rangers fanatic on this board, please don't be a hippocrite and trash the Cowboys.
has very little in common with Kane. Who gave that comp? Maybe the sick wrist shot, but not much else.
Kane is 5' 10" with skates on and 175 pounds and has a speed/sniper game. Jack Hughes could be Kane-like.
Lafreniere is 6' 1", 195 with room to grow and plays a much bigger game, physically, and has a sick shot, but his game is more about pursuing, distributing and keeping pucks. Massier or Gilbert Perreault are far better comps IMO.
TV $$$$$
NHL is scared. Rangers are like the Dallas Cowboys of hockey.
If you are a Rangers fanatic on this board, please don't be a hippocrite and trash the Cowboys.
has very little in common with Kane. Who gave that comp? Maybe the sick wrist shot, but not much else.
Kane is 5' 10" with skates on and 175 pounds and has a speed/sniper game. Jack Hughes could be Kane-like.
Lafreniere is 6' 1", 195 with room to grow and plays a much bigger game, physically, and has a sick shot, but his game is more about pursuing, distributing and keeping pucks. Massier or Gilbert Perreault are far better comps IMO.
My eyes see Messier on the wing for Laf... I linked from some draft scout that I follow that referenced Kane as a comp. The kid just has it, can play the game with a high skill level, and also is willing to be very physical.
Here is Hayes scouting report. I find this so ironic since its'exactly what I hate about Hayes.
Byfield at 17 played a more physical game than Hayes does now.
Hayes:
Quote:
...Talent Analysis
The younger of the two Hayes brothers, Kevin has the potential to develop into a solid two-way forward at the pro level. Like his older brother Jimmy, Kevin has a decent frame at 6'2" but plays more of a finesse style. His offensive awareness and playmaking ability allow him to create chances and open up space for his teammates. His skating could use some improvement if he wants to take his game to another level.....
Byfield:
Quote:
Projection
Byfield is a player who is easy to get excited about. He checks off all the boxes you want in a top NHL prospect. Excellent skater? Check. Elite skill? Check. Great vision? Check. Can score goals? Check. A physically imposing player who competes? Check. A very impressive statistical track record? Check.
You are talking about a 6-foot-4 center who projects to be above, if not well above NHL average in terms of speed, skill and playmaking....
has very little in common with Kane. Who gave that comp? Maybe the sick wrist shot, but not much else.
Kane is 5' 10" with skates on and 175 pounds and has a speed/sniper game. Jack Hughes could be Kane-like.
Lafreniere is 6' 1", 195 with room to grow and plays a much bigger game, physically, and has a sick shot, but his game is more about pursuing, distributing and keeping pucks. Massier or Gilbert Perreault are far better comps IMO.
My eyes see Messier on the wing for Laf... I linked from some draft scout that I follow that referenced Kane as a comp. The kid just has it, can play the game with a high skill level, and also is willing to be very physical.
Here is Hayes scouting report. I find this so ironic since its'exactly what I hate about Hayes.
Byfield at 17 played a more physical game than Hayes does now.
Hayes:
Quote:
...Talent Analysis
The younger of the two Hayes brothers, Kevin has the potential to develop into a solid two-way forward at the pro level. Like his older brother Jimmy, Kevin has a decent frame at 6'2" but plays more of a finesse style. His offensive awareness and playmaking ability allow him to create chances and open up space for his teammates. His skating could use some improvement if he wants to take his game to another level.....
Byfield:
Quote:
Projection
Byfield is a player who is easy to get excited about. He checks off all the boxes you want in a top NHL prospect. Excellent skater? Check. Elite skill? Check. Great vision? Check. Can score goals? Check. A physically imposing player who competes? Check. A very impressive statistical track record? Check.
You are talking about a 6-foot-4 center who projects to be above, if not well above NHL average in terms of speed, skill and playmaking....
Hayes is 6'5" today and skates somewhat lumbering like Byfield... If you have some video that shows elite skating or speed from Byfield, please put it here. Everything I have seen is a slow long strider like Hayes.
Hayes is 6'5" today and skates somewhat lumbering like Byfield... If you have some video that shows elite skating or speed from Byfield, please put it here. Everything I have seen is a slow long strider like Hayes.
I don't think we should take Byfield. I need to watch and research both guys, but I'm on the Laf train right now. I just pointed out that knowing the Rangers, they COULD take Byfield because of their severe need for centers.
Do you have an Athletic subscription? Pronman does an in depth review of Byfield.
In the link are video clips, but I pasted the text from the skating section below.
He's one of the fastest skaters in this draft.
Quote:
...Skating
Skating Grade: 55; For 6-foot-4: 60
The foundation of Byfield’s game is his skating ability. For a 6-foot-4, 215 pound player, he’s a great skater and above-average overall. Some scouts often differentiate between a prospect being good or poor skater for their size – some hate that type of distinction, I see it as more logical and have chosen to go with that path.
Byfield has legit NHL quickness. You can see in the following clip that he’s able to beat several in a footrace cleanly and create a clear chance at the net using his speed.
When a man that big and powerful can skate with that kind of burst, it makes him very difficult to stop off the rush. When he got going through the neutral zone at the OHL level, it was almost a guaranteed zone entry with control.
His edges are very good, too.
This rush doesn’t end up with a chance on net, but I want to illustrate how he’s able to spin while in stride, that’s something I saw often throughout the season.
I don’t want to spend too much time going through his skating, as it will become obvious as we go through the rest of his skill set that it’s a clear strength of his game....
Lafreniere is a stud that's easy to take and I'll love the pick, but Byfield has a chance to play more games before the pick and playing a year older at the age Lafreniere was in the draft year being a massive center has the chance to close the gap.
Lafreniere is a stud that's easy to take and I'll love the pick, but Byfield has a chance to play more games before the pick and playing a year older at the age Lafreniere was in the draft year being a massive center has the chance to close the gap.
I'm just glad the other will be out west.
Is that confirmed? I thought the OHL season doesn't begin until December. NHL Draft is scheduled for October.
Lafreniere is a stud that's easy to take and I'll love the pick, but Byfield has a chance to play more games before the pick and playing a year older at the age Lafreniere was in the draft year being a massive center has the chance to close the gap.
I'm just glad the other will be out west.
Is that confirmed? I thought the OHL season doesn't begin until December. NHL Draft is scheduled for October.
Nope. Definitely not confirming it. If they don't start before the draft then it's easy and you take Lafreniere.
I think the biggest different between the two isn't 'talent'...
it's intangibles. When you look at non stop motor, turning the puck over, winning battles, hockey IQ and overall impact on the game you see a rare player with a better resume over multiple seasons including both a higher floor and ceiling than Byfield. I don't think it's that close TBH. I agree the year in age matters but it doesn't close the gap between them as prospects imo.
As far as comps that's a slippery slope but I would say he's close to McDavid in overall grade. Closer than many think. I'd say not even a notch below, maybe half a notch. I'd also add I'm not sure he can't play center. He has elite vision and hands both as a passer and sniper. He's a very creative playmaker and unselfish with the puck. It's something to keep in mind.
I wonder if this makes it easier to walk away from Fast
He is closer to McDavid than people think. Prospects are never sure things and Lafreniere as a prospect may be viewed with a high floor by most but that high floor is significantly below where McDavid was. As a prospect. Of course it’s possible he winds up a similar player (Kucherov was a 2nd round pick. Panarin wasn’t even drafted so it’s not an exact science) but you won’t find many to share that opinion. But you are obviously entitled to feel that way.
Still on cloud nine. We get to watch Lafreniere and Kakko possibly play on Broadway for the next decade or two. This is how successful rebuilds start in hockey: see the Penguins and Blackhawks for recent examples (just don't look at the Oilers).
Lafreniere is the clear pick. He's the best prospect since McDavid (though not on his level, given that McDavid was coming in as one of the best skaters anyone had ever seen.)
It is possible that Byfield grows into the better pro, but that is always going to be the case when drafting teenagers.
The question now becomes roster construction. We are loaded on the wings. Does someone make the move to pivot, or do we deal? Probably the latter. Guys who come with big cap hits like Eichel should be crossed off our list. We also shouldn't even consider going long term with TDA or Strome. We need an affordable center or two that can win faceoffs and chase pucks. Preserve our precious cap space for keeping our core together long term.
The question now becomes roster construction. We are loaded on the wings. Does someone make the move to pivot, or do we deal? Probably the latter. Guys who come with big cap hits like Eichel should be crossed off our list. We also shouldn't even consider going long term with TDA or Strome. We need an affordable center or two that can win faceoffs and chase pucks. Preserve our precious cap space for keeping our core together long term.
Agree these issues are front and center, even before winning the right to select LafreNYRere.
Gorton last night acknowledged that the loss to Canes was significant in how he and JD view roster shortcomings, that there are holes that need to be addressed. We probably have a consensus here, more or less, of the need for legit Cs and wings that are better two ways. On d, I guess I think more highly of Lindgren than most since hardly anyone (afaik) mentions him as part of an up and coming core. Stahl, Smith, McKegg, Howden can't be gone soon enough. Td'A--I guess he was exposed vs Canes--trade chip, maybe?
As hot as the team was just before the pause, the mojo paused just as abruptly. But Gorton, based on what he is saying, is not using this as an excuse for the fail vs Canes. I had Isiahs power/connectivity loss for four days and missed everything from Tues PM on.
Kakko made it a tougher decision on the Devils with his late performance on the ice. When they are this young you must evaluate until the end. But the Rangers are in a no lose position.
Carolina's pick hasnt been determined yet. Depends how far they get in the SC playoffs and what other teams lose in the first (and beyond) rounds. Hope they lose to Boston and some of the top seeds lose this round.... we could move into the teens if that happens.
Five years ago and before COVID. It's all different now. It's a business. NBC TV $$ loves this draft. Hope your team ends-up with the same success as Dallas.
Aww are we a devs fan perhaps? Poor guy
RE: This is why I openly wanted to lose the Carolina series
Still on cloud nine. We get to watch Lafreniere and Kakko possibly play on Broadway for the next decade or two. This is how successful rebuilds start in hockey: see the Penguins and Blackhawks for recent examples (just don't look at the Oilers).
Lafreniere is the clear pick. He's the best prospect since McDavid (though not on his level, given that McDavid was coming in as one of the best skaters anyone had ever seen.)
It is possible that Byfield grows into the better pro, but that is always going to be the case when drafting teenagers.
The question now becomes roster construction. We are loaded on the wings. Does someone make the move to pivot, or do we deal? Probably the latter. Guys who come with big cap hits like Eichel should be crossed off our list. We also shouldn't even consider going long term with TDA or Strome. We need an affordable center or two that can win faceoffs and chase pucks. Preserve our precious cap space for keeping our core together long term.
Strome/TDA are guys that I like a lot but need to go because those roles need to be filled with cheaper players.
I'd even try to move Kreider/Trouba, although I think the NMC's made that impossible.
The Rangers need to make a decision on Zibanejad - do you extend him? If not, I'd trade him.
He is closer to McDavid than people think. Prospects are never sure things and Lafreniere as a prospect may be viewed with a high floor by most but that high floor is significantly below where McDavid was. As a prospect. Of course it’s possible he winds up a similar player (Kucherov was a 2nd round pick. Panarin wasn’t even drafted so it’s not an exact science) but you won’t find many to share that opinion. But you are obviously entitled to feel that way.
In terms of hype, I think he's below Matthews/Tavares and maybe a little above Stamkos? Crosby/McDavid were in another tier with Ovechkin just a little behind, I think.
I think AF is the easy pick. You don't let positional need drive that #1 OA decision. But it does leave C as a need in both the near and intermediate term.
Would seem to make sense to consolidate the prospect stash a little bit to upgrade center now. But between the buyouts already made and Henrik and Staal, you don't have much financial wiggle room to trade prospect for current salary/production.
I don't think a team with Strome at 2C is a deep playoff contender, but maybe they stay patient for one more season while some money burns off?
Maybe a short-term deal to a Spezza/Haula could patch up 2C and push Strome to 3C? But is Howden really a 4C type? Should they be rolling 4 finesse lines with such young talent or using that 4th line for some grit and grind?
RE: RE: This is why I openly wanted to lose the Carolina series
Still on cloud nine. We get to watch Lafreniere and Kakko possibly play on Broadway for the next decade or two. This is how successful rebuilds start in hockey: see the Penguins and Blackhawks for recent examples (just don't look at the Oilers).
Lafreniere is the clear pick. He's the best prospect since McDavid (though not on his level, given that McDavid was coming in as one of the best skaters anyone had ever seen.)
It is possible that Byfield grows into the better pro, but that is always going to be the case when drafting teenagers.
The question now becomes roster construction. We are loaded on the wings. Does someone make the move to pivot, or do we deal? Probably the latter. Guys who come with big cap hits like Eichel should be crossed off our list. We also shouldn't even consider going long term with TDA or Strome. We need an affordable center or two that can win faceoffs and chase pucks. Preserve our precious cap space for keeping our core together long term.
The Rangers need to make a decision on Zibanejad - do you extend him? If not, I'd trade him.
C'mon, Brettski. That's not a decision that should be made this year and as of now, it looks like a no-brainer to extend him. He's the only legit C we have.
Hoya, I touched on this in another thread with pj - the list of teams with comparable or better elite talent (and that's assuming AF and Kakko pan out) who still suck is pretty long.
The Rangers already handed out some deals I don't like 3-4 years from now. I don't think I want to give Zibanejad a seven year deal.
I think the rebuild so far has been due to luck and not great management. This off-season and next will really dictate if they're going to be a contender long-term.
RE: RE: RE: This is why I openly wanted to lose the Carolina series
Still on cloud nine. We get to watch Lafreniere and Kakko possibly play on Broadway for the next decade or two. This is how successful rebuilds start in hockey: see the Penguins and Blackhawks for recent examples (just don't look at the Oilers).
Lafreniere is the clear pick. He's the best prospect since McDavid (though not on his level, given that McDavid was coming in as one of the best skaters anyone had ever seen.)
It is possible that Byfield grows into the better pro, but that is always going to be the case when drafting teenagers.
The question now becomes roster construction. We are loaded on the wings. Does someone make the move to pivot, or do we deal? Probably the latter. Guys who come with big cap hits like Eichel should be crossed off our list. We also shouldn't even consider going long term with TDA or Strome. We need an affordable center or two that can win faceoffs and chase pucks. Preserve our precious cap space for keeping our core together long term.
The Rangers need to make a decision on Zibanejad - do you extend him? If not, I'd trade him.
C'mon, Brettski. That's not a decision that should be made this year and as of now, it looks like a no-brainer to extend him. He's the only legit C we have.
Why shouldn't the decision be made now? If you want to trade him, his value will be higher now than next year.
I also don't think it's a no-brainer to extend him. Nearly his entire contract will take place in his 30's. We don't need another Brad Richards situation.
RE: RE: RE: RE: This is why I openly wanted to lose the Carolina series
Still on cloud nine. We get to watch Lafreniere and Kakko possibly play on Broadway for the next decade or two. This is how successful rebuilds start in hockey: see the Penguins and Blackhawks for recent examples (just don't look at the Oilers).
Lafreniere is the clear pick. He's the best prospect since McDavid (though not on his level, given that McDavid was coming in as one of the best skaters anyone had ever seen.)
It is possible that Byfield grows into the better pro, but that is always going to be the case when drafting teenagers.
The question now becomes roster construction. We are loaded on the wings. Does someone make the move to pivot, or do we deal? Probably the latter. Guys who come with big cap hits like Eichel should be crossed off our list. We also shouldn't even consider going long term with TDA or Strome. We need an affordable center or two that can win faceoffs and chase pucks. Preserve our precious cap space for keeping our core together long term.
The Rangers need to make a decision on Zibanejad - do you extend him? If not, I'd trade him.
C'mon, Brettski. That's not a decision that should be made this year and as of now, it looks like a no-brainer to extend him. He's the only legit C we have.
Why shouldn't the decision be made now? If you want to trade him, his value will be higher now than next year.
I also don't think it's a no-brainer to extend him. Nearly his entire contract will take place in his 30's. We don't need another Brad Richards situation.
I'm not sure about that. I'm sure some will construe this Zibanejad year as a one-year apparition. With another year like that, he'll silence all the naysayers and doubters and he'll officially be cemented as a first line C.
That's true, but he's clearly hitting his stride and is in the prime of his career. His status can be revisited in a couple of years before he hits free agency, but to do so now seems unnecessary, especially when the Rangers severely lack centers, we don't have much cap space (and Zibanejad is on a pretty team-friendly deal) and Zibanjead is coming off an unreal year.
My guess is that Zibanejad (MAYBE Kreider) will be given the C in a few months and then after he's gone, the C will go to Lafreniere.
Hoya, I touched on this in another thread with pj - the list of teams with comparable or better elite talent (and that's assuming AF and Kakko pan out) who still suck is pretty long.
The Rangers already handed out some deals I don't like 3-4 years from now. I don't think I want to give Zibanejad a seven year deal.
I think the rebuild so far has been due to luck and not great management. This off-season and next will really dictate if they're going to be a contender long-term.
I hear what you're saying, but that's quite a negative tint on things.
I'm not terribly concerned with how we got to where we are right now. To a certain extent, even without making terribly savvy decisions, you accumulate some nice things by leaning into a rebuild and enduring some losing. No apologies for that.
Lots of young talent. One of the best scorers in the game signed long term. 2 first rounders incluing #1 overall. $18M+ of truly dead weight rolling off after next season. A young goalie who looks like a stud.
There are surely things to navigate. Good reasons to be excited though.
left on the Zibanejad contract. It's coming soon, this will be a tricky one. Good news is a ton of money comes off the books after this season with Hank, Staal, and Smith
I'm very excited, for sure - I'm just nervous looking at franchises that have had comparable lottery luck and have stuck with mediocre management for too long because they saw some progress.
I am insanely high on Fox. I think they need another 2 top four dmen, which may come from the system, and more bottom six talent and they could be set.
I think the Zibanejad question is the most important going forward. I think you can win with guys like Trouba (good players who are a little overpaid), but you can't have too many of them. The prospect of 40-50 point production from Zibanejad when he's getting paid $10+ as the Rangers should be competing is a terrifying one.
I think the Rangers cost themselves a longer window with their poor analysis of aging curves back in 2014. I can see scenarios where this team has a window like the Lightning do now, or one where they make the playoffs every year but are never elite.
left on the Zibanejad contract. It's coming soon, this will be a tricky one. Good news is a ton of money comes off the books after this season with Hank, Staal, and Smith
Right. That's huge. But aside from Zibanejad, Kakko and Fox's ELCs will be up.
left on the Zibanejad contract. It's coming soon, this will be a tricky one. Good news is a ton of money comes off the books after this season with Hank, Staal, and Smith
Right. That's huge. But aside from Zibanejad, Kakko and Fox's ELCs will be up.
Also Hoya, I think the Rangers did a great job sending out that letter, tearing down the team, accumulating assets, etc. I'm thrilled with the rebuild so far, but they've gotten a lot of luck with Kakko/Fox/AF (which literally every Cup team needs, of course). I didn't mean to sound so negative!
are trade assets imv, would rather try to move them for more, cheaper assets and start to carve out the extra cap space for core players. Gonna need those assets to bolster C, D, and give bigger deals to core players. Perhaps Fast will remain NYR when the dust clears, lol.
Players I think have likely played their last game as a Ranger:
Fast (UFA)
Henrik
Georgiev
Staal
Lias Andersson
Players I could really see being traded (I would say 50/50):
Strome (RFA)
Deangelo (RFA)
Buchnevich
Smith
Players that have a shot at being dealt (we'll say less than 15%):
Kreider (logjam at LW and it would free up cap space)
Chytil (if they see his future on the wing instead of down the middle)
Kravtsov (in a similar prospect swap, but for a position of need like C or LD)
Smith
Because there is a logjam at the wing
Kreider
Panarin
Laf
Kakko
Kravtsov
Buchnevich
Gauthier
Possibly Chytil (if they like him more at W than C)
Fast (if we re-sign him)
Lemieux (RFA)
The only way I can see Laf not being a Ranger is if the Rangers REALLY love Byfield, LA passes on Byfield, and Ottawa comes in with a Godfather offer. I'm talking #3, #5 and the Islanders first round pick, or #3, the Islanders pick and Brady Tkachuk.
If they could turn some combination of Strome, Deangelo, Georgiev, and Andersson into a top-pair LD and a 2nd line C, Gorton will have done a masterful job. I'm tempted to keep Georgiev though to relieve Igor as this really will be his rookie season. Realistically, I think you're looking at a lineup of (assuming no switches at wing):
Kreider-Zibanjead-Buchnevich
Panarin-XX (maybe sign Mikael Granlund)-Kakko
Lafreniere-Chytil (who I think is more suited to the wing)-Kravtsov
Lemieux-Howden-Gauthier
XX-Trouba
Lindgren-Fox
Hajek/Reunanen/-Smith
Igor
Georgiev
With Miller starting in the AHL. Lundkvist comes over next year. Robertson and Zac Jones in the pipeline as well.
The Seattle expansion draft also has to play into the calculus on decision making this offseason too.
Please no buyouts - we need as much cap flexibility in 2021-2022 as possible and we’re already stuck with dead money on shattenkirk and Girardi. And who knows what the cap will look like with covid impact.
but they might need to just to squeeze out cap space this Fall for next season, like with Shattenkirk. It could be a locker room thing too, players can't be happy watching Hank relegated to the bench and then not be worth his contract either. Same with Staal and Smith.
....
Please no buyouts - we need as much cap flexibility in 2021-2022 as possible and we’re already stuck with dead money on shattenkirk and Girardi. And who knows what the cap will look like with covid impact.
This has been your refrain, consistently, to your credit. What I can't quite dope out is if it's a guise for holding a candle for Henrik.
Who are you referring too? To me that with Gorton and JD they have the right guys in the front office building the roster. Quinn? He'll get one more year, which is fair, to either get this team to the next level or he's gone. That's not sticking with mediocre too long. So where are you going with this?
The first decision facing the Rangers is buyouts. Two ways to go here. Buyout Hank and his bigger deal or buyout two smaller contracts. Hopefully Hank hangs 'em up and that problem is solved. If not it is what it is.
This team isn't a Cup contender in 2021 anyway. Lafrenierre, Kakko, K'Andre, Fox, Lindgren, Chytil, Kravstov and Gautier need more time to learn what it takes to fight for a Stanley Cup. It's part of the growing process. Nils Lundkkvist won't be here yet to replace DeAngelo's offense. This is a ridiculously young core right now but oh so talented.
Forget about mediocre management doing stupid shit, they have the players already they just have to show some fucking patience. The 'vets' are young enough to allow the team to growup. Panarin, Mika and Kreids all have plenty of prime years left.
Torrag, I was referring to other teams such as Edmonton, Florida, and Buffalo, not the Rangers. Those teams have been squandering elite talent. Buffalo and Florida finally made changes this off-season, but Florida seemed to view their intermittent playoff appearances as the sign of a solid plan for too long IMV.
and I agree. The way young stars go to die in Edmonton is an embarrassment. Fuck sake how many #1 overalls and Top 5 picks do you need to build a winner?
....
Please no buyouts - we need as much cap flexibility in 2021-2022 as possible and we’re already stuck with dead money on shattenkirk and Girardi. And who knows what the cap will look like with covid impact.
This has been your refrain, consistently, to your credit. What I can't quite dope out is if it's a guise for holding a candle for Henrik.
Ha - no I’ve moved on from Hank. Sucks, really wanted a cup for him but he’s clearly no longer what he was and that ship has sailed. I do have some concerns about Igors durability but if we’re going to have any shot of sustaining success with this young group we are going to need to keep the goalie position very cheap for a while.
and I agree. The way young stars go to die in Edmonton is an embarrassment. Fuck sake how many #1 overalls and Top 5 picks do you need to build a winner?
It's awful. I would throw the Leafs in there too but I think they actually have a pretty good team that's had bad luck in terms of facing a hot goalie against Columbus and an elite Boston team in prior years.
a casual Ranger fan at this point, and 100% not suggesting actually trading the pick but roughly how many current NHL players would you guys trade the pick 1 for 1 for?
Torrag, I was referring to other teams such as Edmonton, Florida, and Buffalo, not the Rangers. Those teams have been squandering elite talent. Buffalo and Florida finally made changes this off-season, but Florida seemed to view their intermittent playoff appearances as the sign of a solid plan for too long IMV.
A little harsh on Florida I was a season ticket holder there for 4 years - aside from that Vegas trade there haven’t been too many blunders there, they just don’t have the money/budget to compete every year and the only top 5 picks I think they’ve had in the past 10 years are Ekblad, Barkov And Huberdeau. All pretty solid choices - I guess they’d have preferred Draisatle to Ekblad
They’ve really just been stuck in no mans land too much lately - not making the playoffs but still talented enough to be picking in the teens.
The worst thing that could have happened to Toronto
Was the massive success they had in Matthews first year. They needed another year or two of high draft picks to build a cast and especially a defense around him. They have very few NHL calibre defensemen on that roster in my opinion.
a casual Ranger fan at this point, and 100% not suggesting actually trading the pick but roughly how many current NHL players would you guys trade the pick 1 for 1 for?
Off the top of my head, in all honestly, around 5 or less I would think. If you're factoring in age, I'd probably take my chances with the pick over someone like Crosby who is already 33. Crosby would also obviously come with a hefty cap hit. Ditto Ovechkin re: age/cost.
I'd trade the pick for McDavid obviously. I'd trade it for Matthews. Draisaitl, Pastrnak... MacKinnon. Eichel?
Not really anyone outside of there that I can think of.
When you factor in the cap hits of those players you just listed
I’d keep the pick... mcdavid is the only that give me pause. Even there Mcdavids cap hit is 12.5 per year for 8 years.
Between him Trouba and Panarin you’d already be in the situation pitt was in when they had Kessell which yeah they got two cups out of that but it’s tough to put so much of your cap into just 3 players. Trouba was a big time mistake, I said it last year before he signed. Cut Shattenkirk And paying him another 3 years too for that.
Yeah, the cap hits are all good arguments for keeping the pick. I guess my counterargument there is just that we already know these guys are superstars - I think Draisaitl had 110 points in 70 games when they hit pause. He was close to an APG and had over 40 goals on top of it.
Obviously we hope we'll get a true star in Lafreniere but the tradeoff is the chance that he isn't or that he's merely 'good.'
Even good 1st pair defensemen need a decent linemate and he hasn't had one here yet. Also he's still very young at 26 and NY had to be an adjustment for him. His best hockey should be in front of him not in the rear view mirror. I'll hit the pause button and postpone judgement on that deal for a little while.
Players I think have likely played their last game as a Ranger:
Henrik
Georgiev
Georgiev didn't seem to garner much interest at the trade deadline, so why would he be gone, unless Henrik wants to return and the team decides he's earned the right to play out his final year? (And if they do get a deal they like for Georgiev, I assume they'd want a veteran backup for Igor, which would eat up most, if not all, of the 2021 savings from a buyout anyway, so why wouldn't they just roll with Henrik, unless he decides to retire).
picks are always more valuable than the player taken with them because of the hype/unknown/risk.
I would trade the #1 pick straight up for:
McDavid
MacKinnon
Pastrnak
Auston Matthews
Miro Heiskenan
probably Draisatl
probably Kucherov
and maybe a couple more. Maybe I'd get a sweetener with Heiskanen or Draisatl. Who knows, but basically these guys are super stars at a relatively young age.
With the guys above there is no risk other than injury.
With Lafreniere as sure of a thing as he is, until he becomes a star there is a risk he won't.
I'd trade the pick for an established young superstar to remove the risk.
but it's not about Lafreniere it's thee same with every #1 overall pick. Same thread could have been started for Nail Yakupov. Sure, Lafreniere is a better prospect, but at that draft everyone expected Yakupov to be a star for a long time.
predicting 17/18 year olds growth and maturity is inexact.
so we can expect 700 goals 1200 assists 1900 points.
Sure he is.
15 all star games, 2nd most NHL games played, 9th most goals, 3rd most assists, 3rd most points in NHL history.
Sure he is.
Oh yeah and the 6 Cups too.
Sure he is.
I think people mean his playing style when they compare him to an NHL player.
So you can take player comps to be what they are or you can take them that the person meant literally the 18 year old would match someone's career statistics, accolades, and team success.
this is completely your choice.
DanMetroMan: 'Sounds like they have begn buyout talks with Henrik'
Speculation or source? I saw a few articles speculating he may retire and play with his brother for Frolunda rather than sit for the Rangers. I took that as wishful thinking as so few players ever leave prime money on a contract. I haven't yet seen reports they've approached him about a buyout.
Torrag, I was referring to other teams such as Edmonton, Florida, and Buffalo, not the Rangers. Those teams have been squandering elite talent. Buffalo and Florida finally made changes this off-season, but Florida seemed to view their intermittent playoff appearances as the sign of a solid plan for too long IMV.
A little harsh on Florida I was a season ticket holder there for 4 years - aside from that Vegas trade there haven’t been too many blunders there, they just don’t have the money/budget to compete every year and the only top 5 picks I think they’ve had in the past 10 years are Ekblad, Barkov And Huberdeau. All pretty solid choices - I guess they’d have preferred Draisatle to Ekblad
They’ve really just been stuck in no mans land too much lately - not making the playoffs but still talented enough to be picking in the teens.
The Vegas expansion trade was one of the dumbest thing on the face of the earth. Throwing all that money at Bobrovsky was also idiotic. FL has a good core, to not build around them to build at least a sustainable playoff team is embarrassing.
Check out this article:
Quote:
Florida changed internally a lot earlier than conventional wisdom would have you believe. Lawrence and Weissbock actually began collaborating with Werier as early as 2015 — well before he was named AGM — using their public CHL Stats website data to complement a data-driven draft board, built as an alternative to the conventional board built by Tallon’s trusted scouts, who number less than a handful. That board is the talk of urban legend but among other major differences from Florida’s board under Tallon, this one recommended Barzal, Connor and Konecny in the top 10, each far above Lawson Crouse, who Tallon selected at 11.
There were huge battles between Tallon’s scouts and Viola’s new staff in the war room. In 2016 some of Tallon’s old scouts got in a shouting match over Adam Fox not being good and just having “good analytics” because he “played with good players” on the national development team.
picks are always more valuable than the player taken with them because of the hype/unknown/risk.
I would trade the #1 pick straight up for:
Isn't it a bit silly to ignore the other side of this transaction? Which of those GMs would let go of the names you mentioned one up for the first pick/Alexis? If these hypothetical swaps are not grounded in reality, the equation changes when the other side asks for more, maybe considerably more. To your point, the value in the pick/player chosen with the first, has a lot of embedded value in the intangibles, the unknown.
RE: DanMetroMan: 'Sounds like they have begn buyout talks with Henrik'
Speculation or source? I saw a few articles speculating he may retire and play with his brother for Frolunda rather than sit for the Rangers. I took that as wishful thinking as so few players ever leave prime money on a contract. I haven't yet seen reports they've approached him about a buyout.
JD said he and Henrik had a discussion about the future but it would remain private. So I guess "educated" speculation? You're right, it's possible the discussion was regarding retirement.
"Vince Z. Mercogliano
@vzmercogliano
·
33m
JD on Henrik Lundqvist:
"Knowing the professional individual that Hank is, I can tell you that when we got off the plane back from Toronto, I did have a discussion with him – a personal discussion. We'll leave it at that. We will continue having our discussions.""
dollar amount to be made with Frolunda, perhaps a mutual understanding can be reached insofar as some future paid gigs with the organization that would bridge the gap.
wishful thinking.
Yeah. If you're going to throw out a name such as Messier's
picks are always more valuable than the player taken with them because of the hype/unknown/risk.
I would trade the #1 pick straight up for:
McDavid
MacKinnon
Pastrnak
Auston Matthews
Miro Heiskenan
probably Draisatl
probably Kucherov
and maybe a couple more. Maybe I'd get a sweetener with Heiskanen or Draisatl. Who knows, but basically these guys are super stars at a relatively young age.
With the guys above there is no risk other than injury.
With Lafreniere as sure of a thing as he is, until he becomes a star there is a risk he won't.
I'd trade the pick for an established young superstar to remove the risk.
but it's not about Lafreniere it's thee same with every #1 overall pick. Same thread could have been started for Nail Yakupov. Sure, Lafreniere is a better prospect, but at that draft everyone expected Yakupov to be a star for a long time.
predicting 17/18 year olds growth and maturity is inexact.
PJ,
Similar question (maybe harder to answer) where would you rank Lafreniere when comparing him to say the last... 10 1st overall picks (at the time of the draft) not how they turned out.
The guy is the best offensive d-men we've had since Leetch. Period. We chased guys for years trying to find one...Wade Redden, Keith Yandle, Dan Boyle, Kevin Shattenkirk. None of those guys ever panned out. And none of them ever had a season in their careers, quite like Deangelo just had...besides Boyle early in his career.
The guy is the best offensive d-men we've had since Leetch. Period. We chased guys for years trying to find one...Wade Redden, Keith Yandle, Dan Boyle, Kevin Shattenkirk. None of those guys ever panned out. And none of them ever had a season in their careers, quite like Deangelo just had...besides Boyle early in his career.
Because he's not that good of a defender yet hes gonna get paid (deservedly) and they can't afford him with a cap crunch and him being one dimensional when they have assets at the position and have other holes to fill.
picks are always more valuable than the player taken with them because of the hype/unknown/risk.
I would trade the #1 pick straight up for:
McDavid
MacKinnon
Pastrnak
Auston Matthews
Miro Heiskenan
probably Draisatl
probably Kucherov
and maybe a couple more. Maybe I'd get a sweetener with Heiskanen or Draisatl. Who knows, but basically these guys are super stars at a relatively young age.
With the guys above there is no risk other than injury.
With Lafreniere as sure of a thing as he is, until he becomes a star there is a risk he won't.
I'd trade the pick for an established young superstar to remove the risk.
but it's not about Lafreniere it's thee same with every #1 overall pick. Same thread could have been started for Nail Yakupov. Sure, Lafreniere is a better prospect, but at that draft everyone expected Yakupov to be a star for a long time.
predicting 17/18 year olds growth and maturity is inexact.
PJ,
Similar question (maybe harder to answer) where would you rank Lafreniere when comparing him to say the last... 10 1st overall picks (at the time of the draft) not how they turned out.
Brettski posted an article from the Athletic a couple of days ago regarding where Lafreniere falls:
Personally, I think the list is bullshit. Realistically, Lafreniere is in a tier below McDavid (who was truly generational) and in the same level as Matthews and MacKinnon. I think you'll hear different rankings, but pundits usually have some form of Matthews, MacKinnon, and Lafreniere as 2-4.
12 minutes long. Davidson is a terrific interview.
And as we all know besides Anak, Lafraniere is the pick. He said as much, despite trying to walk that back a bit. There's no decision obviously. LINK - ( New Window )
12 minutes long. Davidson is a terrific interview.
And as we all know besides Anak, Lafraniere is the pick. He said as much, despite trying to walk that back a bit. There's no decision obviously. LINK - ( New Window )
I think Laf will be the pick and I think he'll be a superstar in the NHL and in New York City. If I was the Rangers, I wouldn't think twice. But seeing the trend from our scouts, I just don't think it's a no-brainer for the reasons I stated a few days ago. And, as the other Davidson (our Davisian) pointed out, the fact that we need a C and Byfield is almost a full year younger and may have a chance to narrow the gap between the two players makes it somewhat interesting.
At the end of the day, I think we take Laf, I would take Laf, and I wouldn't think twice about it. But I do worry that there will be some (maybe not a lot, but some) internal discussion about it.
In terms of pre-draft hype, I think he is below Matthews but maybe above MacKinnon. I don't remember MacKinnon being that hyped for a #1 pick.
Matthews was hyped more as a goalscorer than anything, IIRC. And actually, I remember that there was a considerable amount of debate about whether Toronto should go with Matthews or with Laine. Laf is being hyped as a playmaker.
12 minutes long. Davidson is a terrific interview.
And as we all know besides Anak, Lafraniere is the pick. He said as much, despite trying to walk that back a bit. There's no decision obviously. LINK - ( New Window )
I think Laf will be the pick and I think he'll be a superstar in the NHL and in New York City. If I was the Rangers, I wouldn't think twice. But seeing the trend from our scouts, I just don't think it's a no-brainer for the reasons I stated a few days ago. And, as the other Davidson (our Davisian) pointed out, the fact that we need a C and Byfield is almost a full year younger and may have a chance to narrow the gap between the two players makes it somewhat interesting.
At the end of the day, I think we take Laf, I would take Laf, and I wouldn't think twice about it. But I do worry that there will be some (maybe not a lot, but some) internal discussion about it.
Stop it. There's not going to be a discussion. Watch that interview with Davidson and tell me there's going to be a discussion. Just stop it.
Dahlin is the only one I'd push to flip with Lafreniere, but Dahlin was described as "McDavid but on D" and he hasn't disappointed, but he plays for a shitty Sabres team so he's probably overlooked.
Matthews put up 40 goals as a 19 year old rookie.
MacKinnon put up 63 points as an 18 year old rookie.
and no one was surprised
And neither has let up even a little bit since.
I have no idea how anyone can say Lafreniere is going to be better than Matthews or MacKinnon - who both play center by the way - a far more important position in hockey. People like that are the same who will probably call him a bust if he struggles at all as a rookie (I don't think he will, but who knows, you need a coach who will put him in a spot to succeed and get some confidence - not banished to a 4th line with Howden and Mckegg or DiGiuseppe.)
12 minutes long. Davidson is a terrific interview.
And as we all know besides Anak, Lafraniere is the pick. He said as much, despite trying to walk that back a bit. There's no decision obviously. LINK - ( New Window )
I think Laf will be the pick and I think he'll be a superstar in the NHL and in New York City. If I was the Rangers, I wouldn't think twice. But seeing the trend from our scouts, I just don't think it's a no-brainer for the reasons I stated a few days ago. And, as the other Davidson (our Davisian) pointed out, the fact that we need a C and Byfield is almost a full year younger and may have a chance to narrow the gap between the two players makes it somewhat interesting.
At the end of the day, I think we take Laf, I would take Laf, and I wouldn't think twice about it. But I do worry that there will be some (maybe not a lot, but some) internal discussion about it.
Stop it. There's not going to be a discussion. Watch that interview with Davidson and tell me there's going to be a discussion. Just stop it.
It's called doing your due diligence.
And regardless, they should have a discussion about what to do if Pierre Dorion and Eugene Melnyk offer #3 and #5 or Brady Tkachuk to move up to #1.
flat out said they were taking him at one point in the interview and you think they're going to have "discussions" after this. LOL.
They had discussions prior in the last few weeks. I'm sure they consisted of "Hey if we get the #1 pick we're taking Lafraniere, you guys on board with that"
It's a total slam dunk. There isnt a discussion to be had at this point, watch that interview again and tell me they are even going to consider someone else, they aren't. They've done enough work on these guys already, they knew for 6 weeks that they had a 12.5% chance at the 1 pick if they lost in the first round.
You're delusional if you think there's going to be any discussion on this now. The discussion on this already happened. They know who they are picking
they are trading the 1st pick with Lafraniere sitting there unless they were offered a sure first young superstar and even then it would have to be one of a handful of guys that they arent going to be offered.
In terms of pre-draft hype, I think he is below Matthews but maybe above MacKinnon. I don't remember MacKinnon being that hyped for a #1 pick.
Matthews was hyped more as a goalscorer than anything, IIRC. And actually, I remember that there was a considerable amount of debate about whether Toronto should go with Matthews or with Laine. Laf is being hyped as a playmaker.
There's always the late hype for the 2nd guy, I don't really remember the Matthews discussion being close.
I trust pj on this more than myself, I don't follow the prospects that closely.
How? he played as well or better than him in international play and he has a better pro body. The same can't be said about Byfield this season. Lafreniere had superior production, pressure results and demonstrable intangibles. The year age difference can be considered but projection doesn't trump performance and proven leadership skills.
I'll also add Lafreniere's skillset lends itself to playing Center. Hint Messier played left wing for four plus seasons before moving to Center. He has the rare vision, hands, passing touch, creativity, unselfishness and hockey sense to work the pivot.
The ONLY other possibility to even discuss is a trade for #3, #5 and a legit starting quality vet player...and this won't ever actually happen because they'd have to be certain to get Byfield to even consider it and he'll be gone. So Lafreniere will be a Ranger. Lock it in.
I'm also taking odds we'll hear how the Rangers are trying him at Center very early on.
There's no reason for them to outsmart themselves here
Funny how the Rangers wish they were still in the bubble and your coming out of yours. Haha. We all know they'll pick him but I agree it's fun to debate these things. I like thinking out and presenting a good argument with as few holes in it as possible.
In terms of pre-draft hype, I think he is below Matthews but maybe above MacKinnon. I don't remember MacKinnon being that hyped for a #1 pick.
Matthews was hyped more as a goalscorer than anything, IIRC. And actually, I remember that there was a considerable amount of debate about whether Toronto should go with Matthews or with Laine. Laf is being hyped as a playmaker.
There's always the late hype for the 2nd guy, I don't really remember the Matthews discussion being close.
I trust pj on this more than myself, I don't follow the prospects that closely.
Matthews was wire to wire #1 overall pick for almost everyone (if not everyone). Lafreniere/Byfield was actually closer from what I remember before the 2019 WJC in January - where Lafreniere broke out and had 10 pts in 5 games and just flat out dominated or something crazy to lead Canada to the gold and he was named MVP (while Byfield struggled) and this was a year after pretty much a no-show for Lafreniere in the 2018 WJC (when he was 16).
and it's undoubtedly our biggest need. But if you're going to take the lower ranked player due to position it has to be oh so close, like a sliver of a sliver. That's not the case here. And though Byfield is a tall kid he doesn't play a hard game(at least not yet) whereas Lafreniere has very good size and plays with an edge.
and it's undoubtedly our biggest need. But if you're going to take the lower ranked player due to position it has to be oh so close, like a sliver of a sliver. That's not the case here. And though Byfield is a tall kid he doesn't play a hard game(at least not yet) whereas Lafreniere has very good size and plays with an edge.
Byfield definitely plays with an edge, but agreed he's the lower ranked player.
Also, it's not the "edge" that would convince me to pick between Malkin and Kane
In terms of pre-draft hype, I think he is below Matthews but maybe above MacKinnon. I don't remember MacKinnon being that hyped for a #1 pick.
Matthews was hyped more as a goalscorer than anything, IIRC. And actually, I remember that there was a considerable amount of debate about whether Toronto should go with Matthews or with Laine. Laf is being hyped as a playmaker.
There's always the late hype for the 2nd guy, I don't really remember the Matthews discussion being close.
I trust pj on this more than myself, I don't follow the prospects that closely.
Matthews was wire to wire #1 overall pick for almost everyone (if not everyone). Lafreniere/Byfield was actually closer from what I remember before the 2019 WJC in January - where Lafreniere broke out and had 10 pts in 5 games and just flat out dominated or something crazy to lead Canada to the gold and he was named MVP (while Byfield struggled) and this was a year after pretty much a no-show for Lafreniere in the 2018 WJC (when he was 16).
Fair enough. I didn't pay much attention to the draft in 2016...or 2015...or 2014....on account of the Rangers not having a first round pick. But I do recall a lot of love for Laine. Could've been a similar situation to what happened last year, where an outstanding WJC pushes the Euro winger over the American center in the minds of some.
I thought Laf was being touted as the top prospect from the Q since Crosby. He and Crosby are the only guys to win back-to-back CHL MVPs. I'm surprised that it was ever close between Laf and Byfield. Byfield is more projection than anything, it seems. Link - ( New Window )
The more I see him
pjcas18 : 1/2/2020 10:36 am : link
the more I'm convinced Lafreniere is closer to McDavid and Matthews than he is to Hughes/Kakko.
At one point I thought Byfield could catch Lafreniere because of Byfield's size and ridiculous scoring pace, but no, not before the June draft, if ever.
Lafreniere is probably the best #1 since McDavid/Matthews.
And I would trade a ton to move up and get him, with the draft in MTL and a Canadian kid projected #1, I'd love to see MTL somehow get him.
Kakko is the GOAT.
BrettNYG10 : 1/2/2020 10:44 am : link
Otherwise, agreed. That's what I thought watching him.
Obviously it's a small sample given there is a limit to what's available to watch but not from what I saw. In fact he coasted a lot in his own end and was sort of 'hanging high' in the slot looking to breakout. Again in a very small sample but Lafreniere was far more active and physical.
Yes, I would but just for two reasons, 1: Byfield is a C and 2: Byfield is physical beast - and I am old school, if I'm building a hockey team I build it with size.
When the caps won the cup I think only TJ Oshie was under 6 feet of their core. I know Kakko is > 6 feet, but Byfield is massive, the sub-sized defenders will struggle with him more than Kakko (who is good on the puck).
About possible deals for the first pick. Too little knowledge of the payers on my part. But whatever -- learn as I go along. But this conversation is going to go on until when? Draft is in October, is it not? That's not exactly next week!
Just doing some research on Lafreniere and others. These prospects are scouted so early! I mean we're talking about when they're 13 or 14 years old. Lafreniere was talked about as Quebec's Great White Hope at age 15! He turns 19 in October.
And speaking of which, the 2021 Draft looks like a dud, but the 2022 Draft is being talked about as generational. Shane Wright is seen by some as a generational prospect with Matthew Savoie not far behind. Lafreniere is in the same boat as Matthews and MacKinnon, but Wright is seen as a once-in-a-generation player like McDavid
Just doing some research on Lafreniere and others. These prospects are scouted so early! I mean we're talking about when they're 13 or 14 years old. Lafreniere was talked about as Quebec's Great White Hope at age 15! He turns 19 in October.
And speaking of which, the 2021 Draft looks like a dud, but the 2022 Draft is being talked about as generational. Shane Wright is seen by some as a generational prospect with Matthew Savoie not far behind. Lafreniere is in the same boat as Matthews and MacKinnon, but Wright is seen as a once-in-a-generation player like McDavid
Just googled him, and while I'm not somewhat accustomed to seeing guys born after 2000 getting drafted (although Lafreniere being older the Bylin and born after 9/11 jarred me), seeing an 04 next to the birth date was fucking jarring.
Just doing some research on Lafreniere and others. These prospects are scouted so early! I mean we're talking about when they're 13 or 14 years old. Lafreniere was talked about as Quebec's Great White Hope at age 15! He turns 19 in October.
And speaking of which, the 2021 Draft looks like a dud, but the 2022 Draft is being talked about as generational. Shane Wright is seen by some as a generational prospect with Matthew Savoie not far behind. Lafreniere is in the same boat as Matthews and MacKinnon, but Wright is seen as a once-in-a-generation player like McDavid
Yes, Shane Wright is McDavid/Crosby territory.
2021 doesn't have a standout like the other years (today) - probably more like a Hischier/Patrick draft, but Luke Hughes may be in the first round - he's the youngest of the Hughes boys (Quinn and Jack's younger brother).
What makes me feel old is one of my HS buddies kids is a prospect in the 2022 draft. Charlie Leddy. I grew up playing with his father (Scott) and more his uncle (Brian). Brian played at UVM with Martin St. Louis.
No idea if they don't have games, tournaments, and NCAA season how they'll scout these guys.
I watched all avalilabe tapes on Lafreniere. They should take and be eternally grateful for their luck. It doesn't matter that he doesn't play C, he sees the ice better than most C's and is crazy passer who is a very willing assist guy. He makes his teammates better, like Breadman did to Strome. But he's a bigger and more physical guy. The Rangers have never gotten this lucky before.
McKenzie thinks the Kings choose Steutzle over Byfield
"stars" from among the presumed first rounders. I think both Lafreniere and Stutzle are better passers than the C Byfield, who seems like more of a gamble. If Rossi and Pefetti overcome their shortcomings, this can go down as a really great deaft.
I watched all avalilabe tapes on Lafreniere. They should take and be eternally grateful for their luck. It doesn't matter that he doesn't play C, he sees the ice better than most C's and is crazy passer who is a very willing assist guy. He makes his teammates better, like Breadman did to Strome. But he's a bigger and more physical guy. The Rangers have never gotten this lucky before.
"stars" from among the presumed first rounders. I think both Lafreniere and Stutzle are better passers than the C Byfield, who seems like more of a gamble. If Rossi and Pefetti overcome their shortcomings, this can go down as a really great deaft.
Top 15 or so in this draft is strong, but after Lafreniere, Byfield and Stutzle, they are largely interchangeable.
are all basically in a pack - that might in fact be how I order them, but I wouldn't overthink it if someone liked anyone of these guys in their 4 - 16 spot.
I have on Mysak is his game reminds me a little of what I liked about Lias Andersson.
Max effort, smart, gritty, but with skill.
I'm beating myself up about being wrong on Lias (though I don't think the book is closed on him quite yet).
I know Lias had some maturity issues, but I liked the competitive spirit. Anyway I just think the similarities are with playing style, and nothing more.
Mysak abused Askarov though with a sweet goal when the Czech's beat Russia in the WJC in Jan.
Look at this zone exit and head fake (looks pass, shoots corner). link - ( New Window )
I have on Mysak is his game reminds me a little of what I liked about Lias Andersson.
Max effort, smart, gritty, but with skill.
I'm beating myself up about being wrong on Lias (though I don't think the book is closed on him quite yet).
I know Lias had some maturity issues, but I liked the competitive spirit. Anyway I just think the similarities are with playing style, and nothing more.
Mysak abused Askarov though with a sweet goal when the Czech's beat Russia in the WJC in Jan.
Look at this zone exit and head fake (looks pass, shoots corner). link - ( New Window )
More Jesper Fast then Lias I think... Plays C, but may project to wing at the next level.
I watched all avalilabe tapes on Lafreniere. They should take and be eternally grateful for their luck. It doesn't matter that he doesn't play C, he sees the ice better than most C's and is crazy passer who is a very willing assist guy. He makes his teammates better, like Breadman did to Strome. But he's a bigger and more physical guy. The Rangers have never gotten this lucky before.
The rub is all those guys are decent players but not difference makers who are going to want significant pay raises in a flat cap world. Georgie hasn't proven he can carry the starting load, Cam had better numbers during his stretch here and he's struggled. Strome is teh beneficiary of playing with one of the ten best players in the league and that casts doubt on what he is without Bread. DeAngelo is a bad defender who makes a lot of bad decisions when moving the puck, -7 outside of the PP playing sheltered defensive minutes(yeah yeah to the whiners about the value of plus/minus as a stat, you actually watch him and you know he's a negative defender).
If interested in moving significantly we may have to weigh the value of guys such as Fast and Buch with an eye to calculating our protection list for the Seattle expansion Draft. Lots of moving parts there but it could be a factor.
agreed, I'm not killing myself to retain of the three FAs and not married to Buch or Fast either. They could mean more to NYR going out the door. When is the expansion draft, btw?
The vegas expansion draft was in June 2017 for the 2017-18 season startup. With next season delayed I'd expect it shortly after the 2020-2021 Cup Finals ends.
btw the rules are the same as the Vegas Draft ....
The Ranking
Sidney Crosby – A full lockout amplified the hype. Pre-Youtube vids added to the mystery. Immediately worth every penny of admission and saved the Penguins’ franchise.
2. Connor McDavid – Broke the internet with his jaw-dropping plays four-plus years before seeing the draft floor. A true hypeman
3. Auston Matthews – Heading to TO magnified the excitement. He lived up the hype in his first game.
4. John Tavares – 72 goals as a 16-year-old? Nuts.
5. Patrick Kane – USNDTP to the London Knights to leading CHL with 145 points.
6. Steven Stamkos – 69 goals in 70 OHL games as a draft-eligible. Not bad.
7. Alexis Lafrenière – Two-time CHL Player of the Year. Elite WJC performance locked it in.
8. Taylor Hall – Great in the regular season, but incredible in the CHL post-season ahead of the draft.
9. Nathan MacKinnon – Was super young for the crop yet dominated nonetheless. Monster Mem Cup solidified it.
10. Rasmus Dahlin – Projected to be a near-generational talent on the backend.
11. Jack Hughes – First kid to step from the USNTDP to the NHL.
12. Nail Yakupov – Lived off of the D-1 hype a little more than he should’ve
13. Ryan Nugent-Hopkins – Slight and slippery playmaker was the best of a medium bunch in 2011.
14. Nico Hischier – An undecided top of the board in ’17, but a tantalizing centre prospect.
15. Aaron Ekblad – Pegged as a plug and play top-four with first defender upside.
16. Eric Johnson – Was big and could skate. An undecided board heading into ‘06 draft.
the O is, but generally speaking I think it goes like this for the major leagues:
OHL
WHL
QMJHL
BCHL
and that's not counting the USHL obviously not Canadian (which is probably close to the O) or the NAHL which is probably in the top 3 or 4 too).
Thanks. Yeah, the perception from this relatively uninformed is that the Q produces better forwards, the W produces better defensemen and the OHL is just the overall best league. Like the SEC of the CHL.
Backpage of tomorrow's NY Post. Uncle Larry article on Laf:
depends on CAL/DAL, if neither of them reach the conference finals I believe NYR (from CAR) pick 24. If one of them does reach the conference finals then they pick 23.
Pretty sure that pick is either 23 or 24 (assuming MTL and ARI are eliminated too before the conference finals).
Haha, I saw that too
WOW, welcome Alex
We all know you were just saying that and trying to convince yourself of that so you wouldnt be upset if they didn't win the lottery, but still
Alexis Lafreniere....I'm only saying that because I don't want a Mook kick to the balls :P
You coming back was the good luck charm for sure.
Meanwhile, you've been posting in the Yankees threads and leaving us out to dry! Come back to us!
Justice? Lol
I have given up hope for the Knicks.
Who said 2020 sux!
Let them play together DQ - don't fuck this up.
Hi Arc!
Who said 2020 sux!
You'll see in a little bit when the orange team from Philly hoists up Lord Stanley's Cup.
Big miss Carl - Chytil is so talented.
Hope we move him? The kid is 20 years old. He's still growing. He may not be a C, but he can be a damn good top-6 W.
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he wear? Won't be # 11.
Who said 2020 sux!
You'll see in a little bit when the orange team from Philly hoists up Lord Stanley's Cup.
They still have AV behind the bench.
GOOD EVENING CARL
Gross. Keep it 6 feet.
1) In 2005, the Rangers had exactly the same probability of the #1 pick as the Penguins. The Penguins got Crosby and the Rangers had the lowest pick from all of the teams with the number of balls the Rangers have.
2) The Edmonton Oilers don't move the revenue needle for the league, won the lotto 3 times in 3 or 4 years.
3) The NJ Devils don't move the revenue needle for the league, won the lotto twice in 2 or 3 years.
4) The Rangers got the #2 pick last year, if the lotto was rigged they would have gotten the #1 pick instead of the small market Devils, not like it would raise more eyebrows than the #2 pick.
Yes. We've been spoiled with the likes of Bobby Sanguinetti, Dylan McIlrath, and Michael Del Zotto in recent memory. Yeah, we're crushing it over here with 1 cup in an almost a 100 year span. Sorry.
Fair enough. Meanwhile, Lafreniere actually looks like a young man. Quite the difference from Jack Hughes last year, who looked like he was a day removed from his Bar Mitzvah.
In any case, what an awesome problem to have!
Lmao, of course we will still whine about other franchises being luckier. Don't be naive.
In any case, what an awesome problem to have!
My friend proposed this:
Kreider + Deangelo + Carolina's 1st + Chytil for Jack Eichel
She met MDZ one night at some club, wouldn't go home with him, and one day I got a text from her of 4 (four!) screenshots from "Mike Hockey" of him send endless "u up?", "come to Philly I'll get you a cab" texts without her ever responding back.
Neither here nor there but funny either way. Like c'mon bro, you're an NHL player, you can't get laid by some model hot girl in your own town?
Quote:
I read online LaFreniere can play RW, not sure if that's accurate, but he shoots lefty so maybe? Pjacs, got any insight into that?
In any case, what an awesome problem to have!
My friend proposed this:
Kreider + Deangelo + Carolina's 1st + Chytil for Jack Eichel
Quote:
Rangers fans whine about how every other franchise had a horseshoe up their ass. The last two drafts were pretty horseshoe ish
Lmao, of course we will still whine about other franchises being luckier. Don't be naive.
Yes. You cannot begin to grumble either about the Giants having a 2-14 record this year for the very detail they won the Super Bowl in 2011.
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In comment 14947395 Sonic Youth said:
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I read online LaFreniere can play RW, not sure if that's accurate, but he shoots lefty so maybe? Pjacs, got any insight into that?
In any case, what an awesome problem to have!
My friend proposed this:
Kreider + Deangelo + Carolina's 1st + Chytil for Jack Eichel
Doesn't Kreider already have a NMC, or can be he be traded before the extension kicks in?
He has a NMC, so he'd have to waive it
#LGR!
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What a fucking tool lol
I was really good friends with this girl I worked with back in 2014 who was an ex-Falcons cheerleader and shows up on news channels and stuff, just your classic absurdly hot blonde girl.
She met MDZ one night at some club, wouldn't go home with him, and one day I got a text from her of 4 (four!) screenshots from "Mike Hockey" of him send endless "u up?", "come to Philly I'll get you a cab" texts without her ever responding back.
Neither here nor there but funny either way. Like c'mon bro, you're an NHL player, you can't get laid by some model hot girl in your own town?
That checks out. Check out the link. Haha
Link - ( New Window )
(The 2012 series vs the Devils must've been the one that fastened his chances)
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In comment 14947399 Anakim said:
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In comment 14947395 Sonic Youth said:
Quote:
I read online LaFreniere can play RW, not sure if that's accurate, but he shoots lefty so maybe? Pjacs, got any insight into that?
In any case, what an awesome problem to have!
My friend proposed this:
Kreider + Deangelo + Carolina's 1st + Chytil for Jack Eichel
Doesn't Kreider already have a NMC, or can be he be traded before the extension kicks in?
He has a NMC, so he'd have to waive it
I don’t think we need more stars at this point. The pieces are there for a cup run as soon as two years from now. Just can’t make a mistake with Managing the defense Budget because windows open and close quickly in this league.
Does this change the view on buying out hank? They need to protect as much of the 2021-2022 payroll as much as possible. Also I assume we don’t need to ‘protect’ lefreniere or kakko in the Seattle expansion draft.
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In comment 14947403 Sonic Youth said:
Quote:
In comment 14947399 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 14947395 Sonic Youth said:
Quote:
I read online LaFreniere can play RW, not sure if that's accurate, but he shoots lefty so maybe? Pjacs, got any insight into that?
In any case, what an awesome problem to have!
My friend proposed this:
Kreider + Deangelo + Carolina's 1st + Chytil for Jack Eichel
Doesn't Kreider already have a NMC, or can be he be traded before the extension kicks in?
He has a NMC, so he'd have to waive it
Does this change the view on buying out hank? They need to protect as much of the 2021-2022 payroll as much as possible. Also I assume we don’t need to ‘protect’ lefreniere or kakko in the Seattle expansion draft.
The new rumor is that Henrik would retire from the NHL and go back to Sweden to play with his brother at Frolunda.
And no, Laf and Kakko are exempt. No need to protect them.
Gotta say that anal horse shoe feels fucking great.
In the last 3 seasons with the Rimouski Oceanics, he has played in a total of 193 games, scoring 127 goals and gathering 200 assists.
That comes to 327 Points, or 1.7 Points per game.
There is ZERO chance the Rangers do not call his name with the #1 overall pick.
Zero.
In the last 3 seasons with the Rimouski Oceanics, he has played in a total of 193 games, scoring 127 goals and gathering 200 assists.
That comes to 327 Points, or 1.7 Points per game.
There is ZERO chance the Rangers do not call his name with the #1 overall pick.
Zero.
Yes, with all the current data it's Lafreniere hands down, BUT the junior hockey season may startup before the draft is even held and a 6'5" center who's a year younger than Lafreniere might have a chance to close the gap. Scouts will certainly be watching closely.
Good shit either way.
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I read online LaFreniere can play RW, not sure if that's accurate, but he shoots lefty so maybe? Pjacs, got any insight into that?
In any case, what an awesome problem to have!
My friend proposed this:
Kreider + Deangelo + Carolina's 1st + Chytil for Jack Eichel
Way too much, IMO.
Yes, with all the current data it's Lafreniere hands down, BUT the junior hockey season may startup before the draft is even held and a 6'5" center who's a year younger than Lafreniere might have a chance to close the gap. Scouts will certainly be watching closely.
Good shit either way.
The kid is a star, no reason to get cute and draft a project center when Lafreniere is sitting there as the clear number 1. Dumb conversation.
Lmao, who knows, maybe. But getting hit on by athletes or absurdly rich people wasn't a new thing for her, so weirdly I don't think he'd even register on the "fame-fucker" scale. Besides, I think MDZ being a tool is the bigger part of those texts. When I say endless, I mean like 30-40 unanswered texts lol
Quote:
In comment 14947395 Sonic Youth said:
Quote:
I read online LaFreniere can play RW, not sure if that's accurate, but he shoots lefty so maybe? Pjacs, got any insight into that?
In any case, what an awesome problem to have!
My friend proposed this:
Kreider + Deangelo + Carolina's 1st + Chytil for Jack Eichel
Way too much, IMO.
I think I'd do that.
Quote:
In comment 14947399 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 14947395 Sonic Youth said:
Quote:
I read online LaFreniere can play RW, not sure if that's accurate, but he shoots lefty so maybe? Pjacs, got any insight into that?
In any case, what an awesome problem to have!
My friend proposed this:
Kreider + Deangelo + Carolina's 1st + Chytil for Jack Eichel
Way too much, IMO.
I think I'd do that.
Actually, I mean we're pretty deep and we'd be giving away D and wingers, so maybe it's not that crazy.
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And as much as I like giving Anak shit, he's not completely crazy about Byfield.
Yes, with all the current data it's Lafreniere hands down, BUT the junior hockey season may startup before the draft is even held and a 6'5" center who's a year younger than Lafreniere might have a chance to close the gap. Scouts will certainly be watching closely.
Good shit either way.
The kid is a star, no reason to get cute and draft a project center when Lafreniere is sitting there as the clear number 1. Dumb conversation.
Point being, maybe he doesn't look like so much of a project when he's playing a Jr season at the age Lafreniere was last year.
I don't really give a shit, they're gonna get a stud either way.
If Byfield does close the gap it's a choice between a Svechnikov/Draisaitl type or a Malkin/Getzlaf type. Fuckin sign me up either way.
Carolina's. Toronto's goes to Carolina, so we get their own. It's why we want them to lose against the Bruins.
Messier type player talent-wise with skill, heart, grit, and leadership. Proven elite scorer at the highest level in juniors and intl.
Messier type player talent-wise with skill, heart, grit, and leadership. Proven elite scorer at the highest level in juniors and intl.
Fuckin glad to have him. We'll be best Frens.
Messier type player talent-wise with skill, heart, grit, and leadership. Proven elite scorer at the highest level in juniors and intl.
We'll see. Messier is in a league of his own just for the 94 run.
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Draft pick goes to the Rangers ?
Carolina's. Toronto's goes to Carolina, so we get their own. It's why we want them to lose against the Bruins.
Thank you
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is in a class by himself.
Messier type player talent-wise with skill, heart, grit, and leadership. Proven elite scorer at the highest level in juniors and intl.
We'll see. Messier is in a league of his own just for the 94 run.
Both wear #11 :)
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is in a class by himself.
Messier type player talent-wise with skill, heart, grit, and leadership. Proven elite scorer at the highest level in juniors and intl.
Fuckin glad to have him. We'll be best Frens.
+100 this is the pick and don't think twice.
Lafrenière - ( New Window )
Central Scouting compared Laf to Huberdeau and Byfield to Malkin
Link - ( New Window )
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makes his comp Patrick Kane... I say Messier, but will take Kame. Lafrenière - ( New Window )
Central Scouting compared Laf to Huberdeau and Byfield to Malkin
I can see the comp to Huberdeau, who is a great young player. Byfield is a project and not in the conversation for first overall IMHO.
Oh that makes sense.
In any case, what an awesome problem to have!
He can absolutely play off wing. Forwards flipping R to L or vice versa is commonplace.
I think he can play C too, but hasn't and it's rare for a W to move to C at the NHL level (though it's happened - Claude Giroux for one). I think he'll be a wing, but if they try him at C I wouldn't be shocked even a little. And I think he'll do well if they try it.
When we need a game winning goal (similarly to Kane and Messier in the SC game winners) I'll be ready. I'm looking for clutch plays from big names. Missing since 1997.
And if you watched the 2018 WJC (his first one) Lafreniere as a 17 year old was invisible.
Like Byfield last year.
It was his 2nd WJC that Lafreniere dominated.
Some say they expected maybe a similar breakout from Byfield this year.
if that happens in his 18 year old season Byfield has Eric Lindros/Anze Kopitar potential. Big body, legit C, silky mitts.
Today though without projection Lafreniere's trajectory is far more predictable and less projection.
If Ottawa can somehow get Byfield and Stutzle they are going to be a fun team to watch.
NHL is scared. Rangers are like the Dallas Cowboys of hockey.
If you are a Rangers fanatic on this board, please don't be a hippocrite and trash the Cowboys.
NHL is scared. Rangers are like the Dallas Cowboys of hockey.
If you are a Rangers fanatic on this board, please don't be a hippocrite and trash the Cowboys.
Ya the league really had the Rangers back, especially in their 2012 and 2014 playoff runs. Thank you for interfering in this discussion. We'll take it from here, Dwight.
NHL is scared. Rangers are like the Dallas Cowboys of hockey.
If you are a Rangers fanatic on this board, please don't be a hippocrite and trash the Cowboys.
These two prospects are not in the same conversation for 1st overall - Lafreniere way top of the class and everyone else following.
NHL is scared. Rangers are like the Dallas Cowboys of hockey.
If you are a Rangers fanatic on this board, please don't be a hippocrite and trash the Cowboys.
hippocrite. Right up there with pre-madonna.
What an asinine post on many levels.
Kane is 5' 10" with skates on and 175 pounds and has a speed/sniper game. Jack Hughes could be Kane-like.
Lafreniere is 6' 1", 195 with room to grow and plays a much bigger game, physically, and has a sick shot, but his game is more about pursuing, distributing and keeping pucks. Massier or Gilbert Perreault are far better comps IMO.
NHL is scared. Rangers are like the Dallas Cowboys of hockey.
If you are a Rangers fanatic on this board, please don't be a hippocrite and trash the Cowboys.
hippocrite. Right up there with pre-madonna.
What an asinine post on many levels.
Damn you! You gave him the easy ones. - ( New Window )
"The hand of God"
Kane is 5' 10" with skates on and 175 pounds and has a speed/sniper game. Jack Hughes could be Kane-like.
Lafreniere is 6' 1", 195 with room to grow and plays a much bigger game, physically, and has a sick shot, but his game is more about pursuing, distributing and keeping pucks. Massier or Gilbert Perreault are far better comps IMO.
My eyes see Messier on the wing for Laf... I linked from some draft scout that I follow that referenced Kane as a comp. The kid just has it, can play the game with a high skill level, and also is willing to be very physical.
I love the kid as a prospect.
Here is Hayes scouting report. I find this so ironic since its'exactly what I hate about Hayes.
Byfield at 17 played a more physical game than Hayes does now.
Hayes:
The younger of the two Hayes brothers, Kevin has the potential to develop into a solid two-way forward at the pro level. Like his older brother Jimmy, Kevin has a decent frame at 6'2" but plays more of a finesse style. His offensive awareness and playmaking ability allow him to create chances and open up space for his teammates. His skating could use some improvement if he wants to take his game to another level.....
Byfield:
Byfield is a player who is easy to get excited about. He checks off all the boxes you want in a top NHL prospect. Excellent skater? Check. Elite skill? Check. Great vision? Check. Can score goals? Check. A physically imposing player who competes? Check. A very impressive statistical track record? Check.
You are talking about a 6-foot-4 center who projects to be above, if not well above NHL average in terms of speed, skill and playmaking....
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has very little in common with Kane. Who gave that comp? Maybe the sick wrist shot, but not much else.
Kane is 5' 10" with skates on and 175 pounds and has a speed/sniper game. Jack Hughes could be Kane-like.
Lafreniere is 6' 1", 195 with room to grow and plays a much bigger game, physically, and has a sick shot, but his game is more about pursuing, distributing and keeping pucks. Massier or Gilbert Perreault are far better comps IMO.
My eyes see Messier on the wing for Laf... I linked from some draft scout that I follow that referenced Kane as a comp. The kid just has it, can play the game with a high skill level, and also is willing to be very physical.
I love the kid as a prospect.
he's definitely someone to get excited about IMO.
Here is Hayes scouting report. I find this so ironic since its'exactly what I hate about Hayes.
Byfield at 17 played a more physical game than Hayes does now.
Hayes:
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...Talent Analysis
The younger of the two Hayes brothers, Kevin has the potential to develop into a solid two-way forward at the pro level. Like his older brother Jimmy, Kevin has a decent frame at 6'2" but plays more of a finesse style. His offensive awareness and playmaking ability allow him to create chances and open up space for his teammates. His skating could use some improvement if he wants to take his game to another level.....
Byfield:
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Projection
Byfield is a player who is easy to get excited about. He checks off all the boxes you want in a top NHL prospect. Excellent skater? Check. Elite skill? Check. Great vision? Check. Can score goals? Check. A physically imposing player who competes? Check. A very impressive statistical track record? Check.
You are talking about a 6-foot-4 center who projects to be above, if not well above NHL average in terms of speed, skill and playmaking....
Hayes is 6'5" today and skates somewhat lumbering like Byfield... If you have some video that shows elite skating or speed from Byfield, please put it here. Everything I have seen is a slow long strider like Hayes.
Oh that makes sense.
I don't think we should take Byfield. I need to watch and research both guys, but I'm on the Laf train right now. I just pointed out that knowing the Rangers, they COULD take Byfield because of their severe need for centers.
Do you have an Athletic subscription? Pronman does an in depth review of Byfield.
In the link are video clips, but I pasted the text from the skating section below.
He's one of the fastest skaters in this draft.
Skating Grade: 55; For 6-foot-4: 60
The foundation of Byfield’s game is his skating ability. For a 6-foot-4, 215 pound player, he’s a great skater and above-average overall. Some scouts often differentiate between a prospect being good or poor skater for their size – some hate that type of distinction, I see it as more logical and have chosen to go with that path.
Byfield has legit NHL quickness. You can see in the following clip that he’s able to beat several in a footrace cleanly and create a clear chance at the net using his speed.
When a man that big and powerful can skate with that kind of burst, it makes him very difficult to stop off the rush. When he got going through the neutral zone at the OHL level, it was almost a guaranteed zone entry with control.
His edges are very good, too.
This rush doesn’t end up with a chance on net, but I want to illustrate how he’s able to spin while in stride, that’s something I saw often throughout the season.
I don’t want to spend too much time going through his skating, as it will become obvious as we go through the rest of his skill set that it’s a clear strength of his game....
link - ( New Window )
I agree he's not in Lafreniere's class, but he's not in Hayes' class either. as a prospect.
I'm just glad the other will be out west.
The intangibles for Alexis Lafreniere are off the charts. This kid is as talented as he is competitive and tough.
I'm just glad the other will be out west.
Is that confirmed? I thought the OHL season doesn't begin until December. NHL Draft is scheduled for October.
The intangibles for Alexis Lafreniere are off the charts. This kid is as talented as he is competitive and tough.
We're not in disagreement with that. Byfield has a chance to make it a tougher decision is all I'm saying.
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Lafreniere is a stud that's easy to take and I'll love the pick, but Byfield has a chance to play more games before the pick and playing a year older at the age Lafreniere was in the draft year being a massive center has the chance to close the gap.
I'm just glad the other will be out west.
Is that confirmed? I thought the OHL season doesn't begin until December. NHL Draft is scheduled for October.
Nope. Definitely not confirming it. If they don't start before the draft then it's easy and you take Lafreniere.
As far as comps that's a slippery slope but I would say he's close to McDavid in overall grade. Closer than many think. I'd say not even a notch below, maybe half a notch. I'd also add I'm not sure he can't play center. He has elite vision and hands both as a passer and sniper. He's a very creative playmaker and unselfish with the puck. It's something to keep in mind.
I actually forgot that the lottery was tonight and only just now found out about it.
I would like to point out that I called this. You're all welcome.
Lafreniere is the clear pick. He's the best prospect since McDavid (though not on his level, given that McDavid was coming in as one of the best skaters anyone had ever seen.)
It is possible that Byfield grows into the better pro, but that is always going to be the case when drafting teenagers.
The question now becomes roster construction. We are loaded on the wings. Does someone make the move to pivot, or do we deal? Probably the latter. Guys who come with big cap hits like Eichel should be crossed off our list. We also shouldn't even consider going long term with TDA or Strome. We need an affordable center or two that can win faceoffs and chase pucks. Preserve our precious cap space for keeping our core together long term.
Between arcarsenal popping back in and the #1 pick, 2020 is finishing strong.
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So... that really happened?
Between arcarsenal popping back in and the #1 pick, 2020 is finishing strong.
I call it net even
Gorton last night acknowledged that the loss to Canes was significant in how he and JD view roster shortcomings, that there are holes that need to be addressed. We probably have a consensus here, more or less, of the need for legit Cs and wings that are better two ways. On d, I guess I think more highly of Lindgren than most since hardly anyone (afaik) mentions him as part of an up and coming core. Stahl, Smith, McKegg, Howden can't be gone soon enough. Td'A--I guess he was exposed vs Canes--trade chip, maybe?
As hot as the team was just before the pause, the mojo paused just as abruptly. But Gorton, based on what he is saying, is not using this as an excuse for the fail vs Canes. I had Isiahs power/connectivity loss for four days and missed everything from Tues PM on.
Sure he is.
15 all star games, 2nd most NHL games played, 9th most goals, 3rd most assists, 3rd most points in NHL history.
Sure he is.
Oh yeah and the 6 Cups too.
Sure he is.
Carolina's pick hasnt been determined yet. Depends how far they get in the SC playoffs and what other teams lose in the first (and beyond) rounds. Hope they lose to Boston and some of the top seeds lose this round.... we could move into the teens if that happens.
You returning to Rangers threads? Nah, still can't believe it.
Aww are we a devs fan perhaps? Poor guy
Lafreniere is the clear pick. He's the best prospect since McDavid (though not on his level, given that McDavid was coming in as one of the best skaters anyone had ever seen.)
It is possible that Byfield grows into the better pro, but that is always going to be the case when drafting teenagers.
The question now becomes roster construction. We are loaded on the wings. Does someone make the move to pivot, or do we deal? Probably the latter. Guys who come with big cap hits like Eichel should be crossed off our list. We also shouldn't even consider going long term with TDA or Strome. We need an affordable center or two that can win faceoffs and chase pucks. Preserve our precious cap space for keeping our core together long term.
Strome/TDA are guys that I like a lot but need to go because those roles need to be filled with cheaper players.
I'd even try to move Kreider/Trouba, although I think the NMC's made that impossible.
The Rangers need to make a decision on Zibanejad - do you extend him? If not, I'd trade him.
In terms of hype, I think he's below Matthews/Tavares and maybe a little above Stamkos? Crosby/McDavid were in another tier with Ovechkin just a little behind, I think.
I think AF is the easy pick. You don't let positional need drive that #1 OA decision. But it does leave C as a need in both the near and intermediate term.
Would seem to make sense to consolidate the prospect stash a little bit to upgrade center now. But between the buyouts already made and Henrik and Staal, you don't have much financial wiggle room to trade prospect for current salary/production.
I don't think a team with Strome at 2C is a deep playoff contender, but maybe they stay patient for one more season while some money burns off?
Maybe a short-term deal to a Spezza/Haula could patch up 2C and push Strome to 3C? But is Howden really a 4C type? Should they be rolling 4 finesse lines with such young talent or using that 4th line for some grit and grind?
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Still on cloud nine. We get to watch Lafreniere and Kakko possibly play on Broadway for the next decade or two. This is how successful rebuilds start in hockey: see the Penguins and Blackhawks for recent examples (just don't look at the Oilers).
Lafreniere is the clear pick. He's the best prospect since McDavid (though not on his level, given that McDavid was coming in as one of the best skaters anyone had ever seen.)
It is possible that Byfield grows into the better pro, but that is always going to be the case when drafting teenagers.
The question now becomes roster construction. We are loaded on the wings. Does someone make the move to pivot, or do we deal? Probably the latter. Guys who come with big cap hits like Eichel should be crossed off our list. We also shouldn't even consider going long term with TDA or Strome. We need an affordable center or two that can win faceoffs and chase pucks. Preserve our precious cap space for keeping our core together long term.
The Rangers need to make a decision on Zibanejad - do you extend him? If not, I'd trade him.
C'mon, Brettski. That's not a decision that should be made this year and as of now, it looks like a no-brainer to extend him. He's the only legit C we have.
The Rangers already handed out some deals I don't like 3-4 years from now. I don't think I want to give Zibanejad a seven year deal.
I think the rebuild so far has been due to luck and not great management. This off-season and next will really dictate if they're going to be a contender long-term.
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In comment 14947556 FearTheHippo said:
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Still on cloud nine. We get to watch Lafreniere and Kakko possibly play on Broadway for the next decade or two. This is how successful rebuilds start in hockey: see the Penguins and Blackhawks for recent examples (just don't look at the Oilers).
Lafreniere is the clear pick. He's the best prospect since McDavid (though not on his level, given that McDavid was coming in as one of the best skaters anyone had ever seen.)
It is possible that Byfield grows into the better pro, but that is always going to be the case when drafting teenagers.
The question now becomes roster construction. We are loaded on the wings. Does someone make the move to pivot, or do we deal? Probably the latter. Guys who come with big cap hits like Eichel should be crossed off our list. We also shouldn't even consider going long term with TDA or Strome. We need an affordable center or two that can win faceoffs and chase pucks. Preserve our precious cap space for keeping our core together long term.
The Rangers need to make a decision on Zibanejad - do you extend him? If not, I'd trade him.
C'mon, Brettski. That's not a decision that should be made this year and as of now, it looks like a no-brainer to extend him. He's the only legit C we have.
Why shouldn't the decision be made now? If you want to trade him, his value will be higher now than next year.
I also don't think it's a no-brainer to extend him. Nearly his entire contract will take place in his 30's. We don't need another Brad Richards situation.
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In comment 14947580 BrettNYG10 said:
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In comment 14947556 FearTheHippo said:
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Still on cloud nine. We get to watch Lafreniere and Kakko possibly play on Broadway for the next decade or two. This is how successful rebuilds start in hockey: see the Penguins and Blackhawks for recent examples (just don't look at the Oilers).
Lafreniere is the clear pick. He's the best prospect since McDavid (though not on his level, given that McDavid was coming in as one of the best skaters anyone had ever seen.)
It is possible that Byfield grows into the better pro, but that is always going to be the case when drafting teenagers.
The question now becomes roster construction. We are loaded on the wings. Does someone make the move to pivot, or do we deal? Probably the latter. Guys who come with big cap hits like Eichel should be crossed off our list. We also shouldn't even consider going long term with TDA or Strome. We need an affordable center or two that can win faceoffs and chase pucks. Preserve our precious cap space for keeping our core together long term.
The Rangers need to make a decision on Zibanejad - do you extend him? If not, I'd trade him.
C'mon, Brettski. That's not a decision that should be made this year and as of now, it looks like a no-brainer to extend him. He's the only legit C we have.
Why shouldn't the decision be made now? If you want to trade him, his value will be higher now than next year.
I also don't think it's a no-brainer to extend him. Nearly his entire contract will take place in his 30's. We don't need another Brad Richards situation.
I'm not sure about that. I'm sure some will construe this Zibanejad year as a one-year apparition. With another year like that, he'll silence all the naysayers and doubters and he'll officially be cemented as a first line C.
That's true, but he's clearly hitting his stride and is in the prime of his career. His status can be revisited in a couple of years before he hits free agency, but to do so now seems unnecessary, especially when the Rangers severely lack centers, we don't have much cap space (and Zibanejad is on a pretty team-friendly deal) and Zibanjead is coming off an unreal year.
My guess is that Zibanejad (MAYBE Kreider) will be given the C in a few months and then after he's gone, the C will go to Lafreniere.
Same.😑
The Rangers already handed out some deals I don't like 3-4 years from now. I don't think I want to give Zibanejad a seven year deal.
I think the rebuild so far has been due to luck and not great management. This off-season and next will really dictate if they're going to be a contender long-term.
I hear what you're saying, but that's quite a negative tint on things.
I'm not terribly concerned with how we got to where we are right now. To a certain extent, even without making terribly savvy decisions, you accumulate some nice things by leaning into a rebuild and enduring some losing. No apologies for that.
Lots of young talent. One of the best scorers in the game signed long term. 2 first rounders incluing #1 overall. $18M+ of truly dead weight rolling off after next season. A young goalie who looks like a stud.
There are surely things to navigate. Good reasons to be excited though.
I am insanely high on Fox. I think they need another 2 top four dmen, which may come from the system, and more bottom six talent and they could be set.
I think the Zibanejad question is the most important going forward. I think you can win with guys like Trouba (good players who are a little overpaid), but you can't have too many of them. The prospect of 40-50 point production from Zibanejad when he's getting paid $10+ as the Rangers should be competing is a terrifying one.
I think the Rangers cost themselves a longer window with their poor analysis of aging curves back in 2014. I can see scenarios where this team has a window like the Lightning do now, or one where they make the playoffs every year but are never elite.
Right. That's huge. But aside from Zibanejad, Kakko and Fox's ELCs will be up.
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left on the Zibanejad contract. It's coming soon, this will be a tricky one. Good news is a ton of money comes off the books after this season with Hank, Staal, and Smith
Right. That's huge. But aside from Zibanejad, Kakko and Fox's ELCs will be up.
And Igor's as well
Fast (UFA)
Henrik
Georgiev
Staal
Lias Andersson
Players I could really see being traded (I would say 50/50):
Strome (RFA)
Deangelo (RFA)
Buchnevich
Smith
Players that have a shot at being dealt (we'll say less than 15%):
Kreider (logjam at LW and it would free up cap space)
Chytil (if they see his future on the wing instead of down the middle)
Kravtsov (in a similar prospect swap, but for a position of need like C or LD)
Smith
Because there is a logjam at the wing
Kreider
Panarin
Laf
Kakko
Kravtsov
Buchnevich
Gauthier
Possibly Chytil (if they like him more at W than C)
Fast (if we re-sign him)
Lemieux (RFA)
The only way I can see Laf not being a Ranger is if the Rangers REALLY love Byfield, LA passes on Byfield, and Ottawa comes in with a Godfather offer. I'm talking #3, #5 and the Islanders first round pick, or #3, the Islanders pick and Brady Tkachuk.
If they could turn some combination of Strome, Deangelo, Georgiev, and Andersson into a top-pair LD and a 2nd line C, Gorton will have done a masterful job. I'm tempted to keep Georgiev though to relieve Igor as this really will be his rookie season. Realistically, I think you're looking at a lineup of (assuming no switches at wing):
Kreider-Zibanjead-Buchnevich
Panarin-XX (maybe sign Mikael Granlund)-Kakko
Lafreniere-Chytil (who I think is more suited to the wing)-Kravtsov
Lemieux-Howden-Gauthier
XX-Trouba
Lindgren-Fox
Hajek/Reunanen/-Smith
Igor
Georgiev
With Miller starting in the AHL. Lundkvist comes over next year. Robertson and Zac Jones in the pipeline as well.
Oh yes you do. Greg has been rubbing off on you. You need to calm down. You're being too loud.
Please no buyouts - we need as much cap flexibility in 2021-2022 as possible and we’re already stuck with dead money on shattenkirk and Girardi. And who knows what the cap will look like with covid impact.
A Brendan Smith buyout will save the Rangers $1.566 million on the cap next season with a one year penalty of $783K in 2021-22.
Please no buyouts - we need as much cap flexibility in 2021-2022 as possible and we’re already stuck with dead money on shattenkirk and Girardi. And who knows what the cap will look like with covid impact.
The first decision facing the Rangers is buyouts. Two ways to go here. Buyout Hank and his bigger deal or buyout two smaller contracts. Hopefully Hank hangs 'em up and that problem is solved. If not it is what it is.
This team isn't a Cup contender in 2021 anyway. Lafrenierre, Kakko, K'Andre, Fox, Lindgren, Chytil, Kravstov and Gautier need more time to learn what it takes to fight for a Stanley Cup. It's part of the growing process. Nils Lundkkvist won't be here yet to replace DeAngelo's offense. This is a ridiculously young core right now but oh so talented.
Forget about mediocre management doing stupid shit, they have the players already they just have to show some fucking patience. The 'vets' are young enough to allow the team to growup. Panarin, Mika and Kreids all have plenty of prime years left.
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....
Please no buyouts - we need as much cap flexibility in 2021-2022 as possible and we’re already stuck with dead money on shattenkirk and Girardi. And who knows what the cap will look like with covid impact.
This has been your refrain, consistently, to your credit. What I can't quite dope out is if it's a guise for holding a candle for Henrik.
Ha - no I’ve moved on from Hank. Sucks, really wanted a cup for him but he’s clearly no longer what he was and that ship has sailed. I do have some concerns about Igors durability but if we’re going to have any shot of sustaining success with this young group we are going to need to keep the goalie position very cheap for a while.
It's awful. I would throw the Leafs in there too but I think they actually have a pretty good team that's had bad luck in terms of facing a hot goalie against Columbus and an elite Boston team in prior years.
A little harsh on Florida I was a season ticket holder there for 4 years - aside from that Vegas trade there haven’t been too many blunders there, they just don’t have the money/budget to compete every year and the only top 5 picks I think they’ve had in the past 10 years are Ekblad, Barkov And Huberdeau. All pretty solid choices - I guess they’d have preferred Draisatle to Ekblad
They’ve really just been stuck in no mans land too much lately - not making the playoffs but still talented enough to be picking in the teens.
Off the top of my head, in all honestly, around 5 or less I would think. If you're factoring in age, I'd probably take my chances with the pick over someone like Crosby who is already 33. Crosby would also obviously come with a hefty cap hit. Ditto Ovechkin re: age/cost.
I'd trade the pick for McDavid obviously. I'd trade it for Matthews. Draisaitl, Pastrnak... MacKinnon. Eichel?
Not really anyone outside of there that I can think of.
Between him Trouba and Panarin you’d already be in the situation pitt was in when they had Kessell which yeah they got two cups out of that but it’s tough to put so much of your cap into just 3 players. Trouba was a big time mistake, I said it last year before he signed. Cut Shattenkirk And paying him another 3 years too for that.
Obviously we hope we'll get a true star in Lafreniere but the tradeoff is the chance that he isn't or that he's merely 'good.'
Hard to see him flopping, but it happens.
Henrik
Georgiev
Georgiev didn't seem to garner much interest at the trade deadline, so why would he be gone, unless Henrik wants to return and the team decides he's earned the right to play out his final year? (And if they do get a deal they like for Georgiev, I assume they'd want a veteran backup for Igor, which would eat up most, if not all, of the 2021 savings from a buyout anyway, so why wouldn't they just roll with Henrik, unless he decides to retire).
I would trade the #1 pick straight up for:
McDavid
MacKinnon
Pastrnak
Auston Matthews
Miro Heiskenan
probably Draisatl
probably Kucherov
and maybe a couple more. Maybe I'd get a sweetener with Heiskanen or Draisatl. Who knows, but basically these guys are super stars at a relatively young age.
With the guys above there is no risk other than injury.
With Lafreniere as sure of a thing as he is, until he becomes a star there is a risk he won't.
I'd trade the pick for an established young superstar to remove the risk.
but it's not about Lafreniere it's thee same with every #1 overall pick. Same thread could have been started for Nail Yakupov. Sure, Lafreniere is a better prospect, but at that draft everyone expected Yakupov to be a star for a long time.
predicting 17/18 year olds growth and maturity is inexact.
Sure he is.
15 all star games, 2nd most NHL games played, 9th most goals, 3rd most assists, 3rd most points in NHL history.
Sure he is.
Oh yeah and the 6 Cups too.
Sure he is.
I think people mean his playing style when they compare him to an NHL player.
So you can take player comps to be what they are or you can take them that the person meant literally the 18 year old would match someone's career statistics, accolades, and team success.
this is completely your choice.
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Torrag, I was referring to other teams such as Edmonton, Florida, and Buffalo, not the Rangers. Those teams have been squandering elite talent. Buffalo and Florida finally made changes this off-season, but Florida seemed to view their intermittent playoff appearances as the sign of a solid plan for too long IMV.
A little harsh on Florida I was a season ticket holder there for 4 years - aside from that Vegas trade there haven’t been too many blunders there, they just don’t have the money/budget to compete every year and the only top 5 picks I think they’ve had in the past 10 years are Ekblad, Barkov And Huberdeau. All pretty solid choices - I guess they’d have preferred Draisatle to Ekblad
They’ve really just been stuck in no mans land too much lately - not making the playoffs but still talented enough to be picking in the teens.
The Vegas expansion trade was one of the dumbest thing on the face of the earth. Throwing all that money at Bobrovsky was also idiotic. FL has a good core, to not build around them to build at least a sustainable playoff team is embarrassing.
Check out this article:
There were huge battles between Tallon’s scouts and Viola’s new staff in the war room. In 2016 some of Tallon’s old scouts got in a shouting match over Adam Fox not being good and just having “good analytics” because he “played with good players” on the national development team.
The Province - ( New Window )
I would trade the #1 pick straight up for:
JD said he and Henrik had a discussion about the future but it would remain private. So I guess "educated" speculation? You're right, it's possible the discussion was regarding retirement.
"Vince Z. Mercogliano
@vzmercogliano
·
33m
JD on Henrik Lundqvist:
"Knowing the professional individual that Hank is, I can tell you that when we got off the plane back from Toronto, I did have a discussion with him – a personal discussion. We'll leave it at that. We will continue having our discussions.""
wishful thinking.
Excellent link, thanks for posting that
I would trade the #1 pick straight up for:
McDavid
MacKinnon
Pastrnak
Auston Matthews
Miro Heiskenan
probably Draisatl
probably Kucherov
and maybe a couple more. Maybe I'd get a sweetener with Heiskanen or Draisatl. Who knows, but basically these guys are super stars at a relatively young age.
With the guys above there is no risk other than injury.
With Lafreniere as sure of a thing as he is, until he becomes a star there is a risk he won't.
I'd trade the pick for an established young superstar to remove the risk.
but it's not about Lafreniere it's thee same with every #1 overall pick. Same thread could have been started for Nail Yakupov. Sure, Lafreniere is a better prospect, but at that draft everyone expected Yakupov to be a star for a long time.
predicting 17/18 year olds growth and maturity is inexact.
PJ,
Similar question (maybe harder to answer) where would you rank Lafreniere when comparing him to say the last... 10 1st overall picks (at the time of the draft) not how they turned out.
Because he's not that good of a defender yet hes gonna get paid (deservedly) and they can't afford him with a cap crunch and him being one dimensional when they have assets at the position and have other holes to fill.
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picks are always more valuable than the player taken with them because of the hype/unknown/risk.
I would trade the #1 pick straight up for:
McDavid
MacKinnon
Pastrnak
Auston Matthews
Miro Heiskenan
probably Draisatl
probably Kucherov
and maybe a couple more. Maybe I'd get a sweetener with Heiskanen or Draisatl. Who knows, but basically these guys are super stars at a relatively young age.
With the guys above there is no risk other than injury.
With Lafreniere as sure of a thing as he is, until he becomes a star there is a risk he won't.
I'd trade the pick for an established young superstar to remove the risk.
but it's not about Lafreniere it's thee same with every #1 overall pick. Same thread could have been started for Nail Yakupov. Sure, Lafreniere is a better prospect, but at that draft everyone expected Yakupov to be a star for a long time.
predicting 17/18 year olds growth and maturity is inexact.
PJ,
Similar question (maybe harder to answer) where would you rank Lafreniere when comparing him to say the last... 10 1st overall picks (at the time of the draft) not how they turned out.
Brettski posted an article from the Athletic a couple of days ago regarding where Lafreniere falls:
1. McDavid
2. Matthews
3. MacKinnon
4. Dahlin
5. Alexis Lafreniere
6. Hughes
7. Ekblad
8. Nico Hischier
9. Nugent-Hopkins
10. Hall
Personally, I think the list is bullshit. Realistically, Lafreniere is in a tier below McDavid (who was truly generational) and in the same level as Matthews and MacKinnon. I think you'll hear different rankings, but pundits usually have some form of Matthews, MacKinnon, and Lafreniere as 2-4.
And as we all know besides Anak, Lafraniere is the pick. He said as much, despite trying to walk that back a bit. There's no decision obviously.
LINK - ( New Window )
And as we all know besides Anak, Lafraniere is the pick. He said as much, despite trying to walk that back a bit. There's no decision obviously. LINK - ( New Window )
I think Laf will be the pick and I think he'll be a superstar in the NHL and in New York City. If I was the Rangers, I wouldn't think twice. But seeing the trend from our scouts, I just don't think it's a no-brainer for the reasons I stated a few days ago. And, as the other Davidson (our Davisian) pointed out, the fact that we need a C and Byfield is almost a full year younger and may have a chance to narrow the gap between the two players makes it somewhat interesting.
At the end of the day, I think we take Laf, I would take Laf, and I wouldn't think twice about it. But I do worry that there will be some (maybe not a lot, but some) internal discussion about it.
Matthews was hyped more as a goalscorer than anything, IIRC. And actually, I remember that there was a considerable amount of debate about whether Toronto should go with Matthews or with Laine. Laf is being hyped as a playmaker.
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12 minutes long. Davidson is a terrific interview.
And as we all know besides Anak, Lafraniere is the pick. He said as much, despite trying to walk that back a bit. There's no decision obviously. LINK - ( New Window )
I think Laf will be the pick and I think he'll be a superstar in the NHL and in New York City. If I was the Rangers, I wouldn't think twice. But seeing the trend from our scouts, I just don't think it's a no-brainer for the reasons I stated a few days ago. And, as the other Davidson (our Davisian) pointed out, the fact that we need a C and Byfield is almost a full year younger and may have a chance to narrow the gap between the two players makes it somewhat interesting.
At the end of the day, I think we take Laf, I would take Laf, and I wouldn't think twice about it. But I do worry that there will be some (maybe not a lot, but some) internal discussion about it.
Stop it. There's not going to be a discussion. Watch that interview with Davidson and tell me there's going to be a discussion. Just stop it.
Dahlin is the only one I'd push to flip with Lafreniere, but Dahlin was described as "McDavid but on D" and he hasn't disappointed, but he plays for a shitty Sabres team so he's probably overlooked.
Matthews put up 40 goals as a 19 year old rookie.
MacKinnon put up 63 points as an 18 year old rookie.
and no one was surprised
And neither has let up even a little bit since.
I have no idea how anyone can say Lafreniere is going to be better than Matthews or MacKinnon - who both play center by the way - a far more important position in hockey. People like that are the same who will probably call him a bust if he struggles at all as a rookie (I don't think he will, but who knows, you need a coach who will put him in a spot to succeed and get some confidence - not banished to a 4th line with Howden and Mckegg or DiGiuseppe.)
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In comment 14948070 MookGiants said:
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12 minutes long. Davidson is a terrific interview.
And as we all know besides Anak, Lafraniere is the pick. He said as much, despite trying to walk that back a bit. There's no decision obviously. LINK - ( New Window )
I think Laf will be the pick and I think he'll be a superstar in the NHL and in New York City. If I was the Rangers, I wouldn't think twice. But seeing the trend from our scouts, I just don't think it's a no-brainer for the reasons I stated a few days ago. And, as the other Davidson (our Davisian) pointed out, the fact that we need a C and Byfield is almost a full year younger and may have a chance to narrow the gap between the two players makes it somewhat interesting.
At the end of the day, I think we take Laf, I would take Laf, and I wouldn't think twice about it. But I do worry that there will be some (maybe not a lot, but some) internal discussion about it.
Stop it. There's not going to be a discussion. Watch that interview with Davidson and tell me there's going to be a discussion. Just stop it.
It's called doing your due diligence.
And regardless, they should have a discussion about what to do if Pierre Dorion and Eugene Melnyk offer #3 and #5 or Brady Tkachuk to move up to #1.
They had discussions prior in the last few weeks. I'm sure they consisted of "Hey if we get the #1 pick we're taking Lafraniere, you guys on board with that"
It's a total slam dunk. There isnt a discussion to be had at this point, watch that interview again and tell me they are even going to consider someone else, they aren't. They've done enough work on these guys already, they knew for 6 weeks that they had a 12.5% chance at the 1 pick if they lost in the first round.
You're delusional if you think there's going to be any discussion on this now. The discussion on this already happened. They know who they are picking
There may be more data available before the pick. That's all.
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In terms of pre-draft hype, I think he is below Matthews but maybe above MacKinnon. I don't remember MacKinnon being that hyped for a #1 pick.
Matthews was hyped more as a goalscorer than anything, IIRC. And actually, I remember that there was a considerable amount of debate about whether Toronto should go with Matthews or with Laine. Laf is being hyped as a playmaker.
There's always the late hype for the 2nd guy, I don't really remember the Matthews discussion being close.
I trust pj on this more than myself, I don't follow the prospects that closely.
I celebrate his entire collection.
I'll also add Lafreniere's skillset lends itself to playing Center. Hint Messier played left wing for four plus seasons before moving to Center. He has the rare vision, hands, passing touch, creativity, unselfishness and hockey sense to work the pivot.
The ONLY other possibility to even discuss is a trade for #3, #5 and a legit starting quality vet player...and this won't ever actually happen because they'd have to be certain to get Byfield to even consider it and he'll be gone. So Lafreniere will be a Ranger. Lock it in.
I'm also taking odds we'll hear how the Rangers are trying him at Center very early on.
And also I'm bored and it's nice to get out of my bubble and hang with Anak and Gilbert Brule to mix things up...
So you've met Brett?
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In comment 14948072 BrettNYG10 said:
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In terms of pre-draft hype, I think he is below Matthews but maybe above MacKinnon. I don't remember MacKinnon being that hyped for a #1 pick.
Matthews was hyped more as a goalscorer than anything, IIRC. And actually, I remember that there was a considerable amount of debate about whether Toronto should go with Matthews or with Laine. Laf is being hyped as a playmaker.
There's always the late hype for the 2nd guy, I don't really remember the Matthews discussion being close.
I trust pj on this more than myself, I don't follow the prospects that closely.
Matthews was wire to wire #1 overall pick for almost everyone (if not everyone). Lafreniere/Byfield was actually closer from what I remember before the 2019 WJC in January - where Lafreniere broke out and had 10 pts in 5 games and just flat out dominated or something crazy to lead Canada to the gold and he was named MVP (while Byfield struggled) and this was a year after pretty much a no-show for Lafreniere in the 2018 WJC (when he was 16).
Lafreniere checks every single box for me, but I get wondering if I'd rather have Malkin* than Kane*.
*Their impacts on a franchise, not the type of game they play
Creme brule?
Byfield definitely plays with an edge, but agreed he's the lower ranked player.
Also, it's not the "edge" that would convince me to pick between Malkin and Kane
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In comment 14948077 Anakim said:
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In comment 14948072 BrettNYG10 said:
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In terms of pre-draft hype, I think he is below Matthews but maybe above MacKinnon. I don't remember MacKinnon being that hyped for a #1 pick.
Matthews was hyped more as a goalscorer than anything, IIRC. And actually, I remember that there was a considerable amount of debate about whether Toronto should go with Matthews or with Laine. Laf is being hyped as a playmaker.
There's always the late hype for the 2nd guy, I don't really remember the Matthews discussion being close.
I trust pj on this more than myself, I don't follow the prospects that closely.
Matthews was wire to wire #1 overall pick for almost everyone (if not everyone). Lafreniere/Byfield was actually closer from what I remember before the 2019 WJC in January - where Lafreniere broke out and had 10 pts in 5 games and just flat out dominated or something crazy to lead Canada to the gold and he was named MVP (while Byfield struggled) and this was a year after pretty much a no-show for Lafreniere in the 2018 WJC (when he was 16).
Fair enough. I didn't pay much attention to the draft in 2016...or 2015...or 2014....on account of the Rangers not having a first round pick. But I do recall a lot of love for Laine. Could've been a similar situation to what happened last year, where an outstanding WJC pushes the Euro winger over the American center in the minds of some.
I thought Laf was being touted as the top prospect from the Q since Crosby. He and Crosby are the only guys to win back-to-back CHL MVPs. I'm surprised that it was ever close between Laf and Byfield. Byfield is more projection than anything, it seems.
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pjcas18 : 1/2/2020 10:36 am : link
the more I'm convinced Lafreniere is closer to McDavid and Matthews than he is to Hughes/Kakko.
At one point I thought Byfield could catch Lafreniere because of Byfield's size and ridiculous scoring pace, but no, not before the June draft, if ever.
Lafreniere is probably the best #1 since McDavid/Matthews.
And I would trade a ton to move up and get him, with the draft in MTL and a Canadian kid projected #1, I'd love to see MTL somehow get him.
Kakko is the GOAT.
BrettNYG10 : 1/2/2020 10:44 am : link
Otherwise, agreed. That's what I thought watching him.
That wasn't a turnover, that was practice for when Miller and Lafreni�re are teammates with the Rangers. Idiots
Have you watched any of Miller in WI? I only saw him at the World Junior's and wasn't that impressed, but I read he did great in 'camp' last month.
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That'll be a talking point next camp
Have you watched any of Miller in WI? I only saw him at the World Junior's and wasn't that impressed, but I read he did great in 'camp' last month.
I saw every shift he ever played as well as every other prospect ever because I have that kind of time.
All the Norrises. So many beautiful Norrises. You'll be tired of all the Norrises...
Huh? It’s a hypo. Pretty much asking PJ to compare the two.
Mike Norris? Moochie Norris?
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Mike Norris? Moochie Norris?
I am suddenly flooded with feelings of pain and anguish as a Knicks fan.
Yes, I would but just for two reasons, 1: Byfield is a C and 2: Byfield is physical beast - and I am old school, if I'm building a hockey team I build it with size.
When the caps won the cup I think only TJ Oshie was under 6 feet of their core. I know Kakko is > 6 feet, but Byfield is massive, the sub-sized defenders will struggle with him more than Kakko (who is good on the puck).
"Great move, love it"-Anak and Davisian
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"Great move, love it"-Anak and Davisian
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Does he keep the pick to take Lafrenière or make a deal that could help the Rangers land the No. 2 centre they have been so badly seeking?
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Garrioch is a notorious shit-stirrer
And speaking of which, the 2021 Draft looks like a dud, but the 2022 Draft is being talked about as generational. Shane Wright is seen by some as a generational prospect with Matthew Savoie not far behind. Lafreniere is in the same boat as Matthews and MacKinnon, but Wright is seen as a once-in-a-generation player like McDavid
And speaking of which, the 2021 Draft looks like a dud, but the 2022 Draft is being talked about as generational. Shane Wright is seen by some as a generational prospect with Matthew Savoie not far behind. Lafreniere is in the same boat as Matthews and MacKinnon, but Wright is seen as a once-in-a-generation player like McDavid
And speaking of which, the 2021 Draft looks like a dud, but the 2022 Draft is being talked about as generational. Shane Wright is seen by some as a generational prospect with Matthew Savoie not far behind. Lafreniere is in the same boat as Matthews and MacKinnon, but Wright is seen as a once-in-a-generation player like McDavid
Yes, Shane Wright is McDavid/Crosby territory.
2021 doesn't have a standout like the other years (today) - probably more like a Hischier/Patrick draft, but Luke Hughes may be in the first round - he's the youngest of the Hughes boys (Quinn and Jack's younger brother).
What makes me feel old is one of my HS buddies kids is a prospect in the 2022 draft. Charlie Leddy. I grew up playing with his father (Scott) and more his uncle (Brian). Brian played at UVM with Martin St. Louis.
No idea if they don't have games, tournaments, and NCAA season how they'll scout these guys.
-Brett wearing a bird cage
-Brett wearing a bird cage
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Lafreniere and Byfield have that same potential is how.
Stutzle is probably more electric than them, but not as complete a game.
+1 perfectly stated Phil.
Top 15 or so in this draft is strong, but after Lafreniere, Byfield and Stutzle, they are largely interchangeable.
Rossi (C)
Drysdale (D)
Perfetti (C)
Raymond (LW)
Holtz ((RW)
Lundell (C)
Sanderson (D)
Askarov (G)
Quinn (RW)
Guhle (D)
Mercer (C)
Jarvis (C)
Holloway (C)
are all basically in a pack - that might in fact be how I order them, but I wouldn't overthink it if someone liked anyone of these guys in their 4 - 16 spot.
I'd love to pick end of the 1st and get Jan Mysak
Max effort, smart, gritty, but with skill.
I'm beating myself up about being wrong on Lias (though I don't think the book is closed on him quite yet).
I know Lias had some maturity issues, but I liked the competitive spirit. Anyway I just think the similarities are with playing style, and nothing more.
Mysak abused Askarov though with a sweet goal when the Czech's beat Russia in the WJC in Jan.
Look at this zone exit and head fake (looks pass, shoots corner).
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Max effort, smart, gritty, but with skill.
I'm beating myself up about being wrong on Lias (though I don't think the book is closed on him quite yet).
I know Lias had some maturity issues, but I liked the competitive spirit. Anyway I just think the similarities are with playing style, and nothing more.
Mysak abused Askarov though with a sweet goal when the Czech's beat Russia in the WJC in Jan.
Look at this zone exit and head fake (looks pass, shoots corner). link - ( New Window )
More Jesper Fast then Lias I think... Plays C, but may project to wing at the next level.
YES
Mysak is projected to go later in the 1st because of his skating. Which IMO is correctable.
I have read some Tomas Tatar comps, and maybe he's a good comp for Mysak, though I think Mysak has more upside.
If interested in moving significantly we may have to weigh the value of guys such as Fast and Buch with an eye to calculating our protection list for the Seattle expansion Draft. Lots of moving parts there but it could be a factor.
We've certainly been a lot luckier since he's been hired
Sidney Crosby – A full lockout amplified the hype. Pre-Youtube vids added to the mystery. Immediately worth every penny of admission and saved the Penguins’ franchise.
2. Connor McDavid – Broke the internet with his jaw-dropping plays four-plus years before seeing the draft floor. A true hypeman
3. Auston Matthews – Heading to TO magnified the excitement. He lived up the hype in his first game.
4. John Tavares – 72 goals as a 16-year-old? Nuts.
5. Patrick Kane – USNDTP to the London Knights to leading CHL with 145 points.
6. Steven Stamkos – 69 goals in 70 OHL games as a draft-eligible. Not bad.
7. Alexis Lafrenière – Two-time CHL Player of the Year. Elite WJC performance locked it in.
8. Taylor Hall – Great in the regular season, but incredible in the CHL post-season ahead of the draft.
9. Nathan MacKinnon – Was super young for the crop yet dominated nonetheless. Monster Mem Cup solidified it.
10. Rasmus Dahlin – Projected to be a near-generational talent on the backend.
11. Jack Hughes – First kid to step from the USNTDP to the NHL.
12. Nail Yakupov – Lived off of the D-1 hype a little more than he should’ve
13. Ryan Nugent-Hopkins – Slight and slippery playmaker was the best of a medium bunch in 2011.
14. Nico Hischier – An undecided top of the board in ’17, but a tantalizing centre prospect.
15. Aaron Ekblad – Pegged as a plug and play top-four with first defender upside.
16. Eric Johnson – Was big and could skate. An undecided board heading into ‘06 draft.
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The article was about the pre-draft hype, not where they are today. I don’t recall MacKinnon being all that hyped.
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I think the Rangers are in very good hands. He is the perfect person at the perfect time to build the best Rangers teams since the early 70's.
We've certainly been a lot luckier since he's been hired
LOL
OHL
WHL
QMJHL
BCHL
and that's not counting the USHL obviously not Canadian (which is probably close to the O) or the NAHL which is probably in the top 3 or 4 too).
OHL
WHL
QMJHL
BCHL
and that's not counting the USHL obviously not Canadian (which is probably close to the O) or the NAHL which is probably in the top 3 or 4 too).
Thanks. Yeah, the perception from this relatively uninformed is that the Q produces better forwards, the W produces better defensemen and the OHL is just the overall best league. Like the SEC of the CHL.
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depends on CAL/DAL, if neither of them reach the conference finals I believe NYR (from CAR) pick 24. If one of them does reach the conference finals then they pick 23.
Pretty sure that pick is either 23 or 24 (assuming MTL and ARI are eliminated too before the conference finals).
20-24 depending what happens the rest of the way.
In order to get the 20th overall, we need a MTL/Long Island Conference Final...