Five years ago and before COVID. It's all different now. It's a business. NBC TV $$ loves this draft. Hope your team ends-up with the same success as Dallas.
Aww are we a devs fan perhaps? Poor guy
RE: This is why I openly wanted to lose the Carolina series
Still on cloud nine. We get to watch Lafreniere and Kakko possibly play on Broadway for the next decade or two. This is how successful rebuilds start in hockey: see the Penguins and Blackhawks for recent examples (just don't look at the Oilers).
Lafreniere is the clear pick. He's the best prospect since McDavid (though not on his level, given that McDavid was coming in as one of the best skaters anyone had ever seen.)
It is possible that Byfield grows into the better pro, but that is always going to be the case when drafting teenagers.
The question now becomes roster construction. We are loaded on the wings. Does someone make the move to pivot, or do we deal? Probably the latter. Guys who come with big cap hits like Eichel should be crossed off our list. We also shouldn't even consider going long term with TDA or Strome. We need an affordable center or two that can win faceoffs and chase pucks. Preserve our precious cap space for keeping our core together long term.
Strome/TDA are guys that I like a lot but need to go because those roles need to be filled with cheaper players.
I'd even try to move Kreider/Trouba, although I think the NMC's made that impossible.
The Rangers need to make a decision on Zibanejad - do you extend him? If not, I'd trade him.
He is closer to McDavid than people think. Prospects are never sure things and Lafreniere as a prospect may be viewed with a high floor by most but that high floor is significantly below where McDavid was. As a prospect. Of course it’s possible he winds up a similar player (Kucherov was a 2nd round pick. Panarin wasn’t even drafted so it’s not an exact science) but you won’t find many to share that opinion. But you are obviously entitled to feel that way.
In terms of hype, I think he's below Matthews/Tavares and maybe a little above Stamkos? Crosby/McDavid were in another tier with Ovechkin just a little behind, I think.
I think AF is the easy pick. You don't let positional need drive that #1 OA decision. But it does leave C as a need in both the near and intermediate term.
Would seem to make sense to consolidate the prospect stash a little bit to upgrade center now. But between the buyouts already made and Henrik and Staal, you don't have much financial wiggle room to trade prospect for current salary/production.
I don't think a team with Strome at 2C is a deep playoff contender, but maybe they stay patient for one more season while some money burns off?
Maybe a short-term deal to a Spezza/Haula could patch up 2C and push Strome to 3C? But is Howden really a 4C type? Should they be rolling 4 finesse lines with such young talent or using that 4th line for some grit and grind?
RE: RE: This is why I openly wanted to lose the Carolina series
Still on cloud nine. We get to watch Lafreniere and Kakko possibly play on Broadway for the next decade or two. This is how successful rebuilds start in hockey: see the Penguins and Blackhawks for recent examples (just don't look at the Oilers).
Lafreniere is the clear pick. He's the best prospect since McDavid (though not on his level, given that McDavid was coming in as one of the best skaters anyone had ever seen.)
It is possible that Byfield grows into the better pro, but that is always going to be the case when drafting teenagers.
The question now becomes roster construction. We are loaded on the wings. Does someone make the move to pivot, or do we deal? Probably the latter. Guys who come with big cap hits like Eichel should be crossed off our list. We also shouldn't even consider going long term with TDA or Strome. We need an affordable center or two that can win faceoffs and chase pucks. Preserve our precious cap space for keeping our core together long term.
The Rangers need to make a decision on Zibanejad - do you extend him? If not, I'd trade him.
C'mon, Brettski. That's not a decision that should be made this year and as of now, it looks like a no-brainer to extend him. He's the only legit C we have.
Hoya, I touched on this in another thread with pj - the list of teams with comparable or better elite talent (and that's assuming AF and Kakko pan out) who still suck is pretty long.
The Rangers already handed out some deals I don't like 3-4 years from now. I don't think I want to give Zibanejad a seven year deal.
I think the rebuild so far has been due to luck and not great management. This off-season and next will really dictate if they're going to be a contender long-term.
RE: RE: RE: This is why I openly wanted to lose the Carolina series
Still on cloud nine. We get to watch Lafreniere and Kakko possibly play on Broadway for the next decade or two. This is how successful rebuilds start in hockey: see the Penguins and Blackhawks for recent examples (just don't look at the Oilers).
Lafreniere is the clear pick. He's the best prospect since McDavid (though not on his level, given that McDavid was coming in as one of the best skaters anyone had ever seen.)
It is possible that Byfield grows into the better pro, but that is always going to be the case when drafting teenagers.
The question now becomes roster construction. We are loaded on the wings. Does someone make the move to pivot, or do we deal? Probably the latter. Guys who come with big cap hits like Eichel should be crossed off our list. We also shouldn't even consider going long term with TDA or Strome. We need an affordable center or two that can win faceoffs and chase pucks. Preserve our precious cap space for keeping our core together long term.
The Rangers need to make a decision on Zibanejad - do you extend him? If not, I'd trade him.
C'mon, Brettski. That's not a decision that should be made this year and as of now, it looks like a no-brainer to extend him. He's the only legit C we have.
Why shouldn't the decision be made now? If you want to trade him, his value will be higher now than next year.
I also don't think it's a no-brainer to extend him. Nearly his entire contract will take place in his 30's. We don't need another Brad Richards situation.
RE: RE: RE: RE: This is why I openly wanted to lose the Carolina series
Still on cloud nine. We get to watch Lafreniere and Kakko possibly play on Broadway for the next decade or two. This is how successful rebuilds start in hockey: see the Penguins and Blackhawks for recent examples (just don't look at the Oilers).
Lafreniere is the clear pick. He's the best prospect since McDavid (though not on his level, given that McDavid was coming in as one of the best skaters anyone had ever seen.)
It is possible that Byfield grows into the better pro, but that is always going to be the case when drafting teenagers.
The question now becomes roster construction. We are loaded on the wings. Does someone make the move to pivot, or do we deal? Probably the latter. Guys who come with big cap hits like Eichel should be crossed off our list. We also shouldn't even consider going long term with TDA or Strome. We need an affordable center or two that can win faceoffs and chase pucks. Preserve our precious cap space for keeping our core together long term.
The Rangers need to make a decision on Zibanejad - do you extend him? If not, I'd trade him.
C'mon, Brettski. That's not a decision that should be made this year and as of now, it looks like a no-brainer to extend him. He's the only legit C we have.
Why shouldn't the decision be made now? If you want to trade him, his value will be higher now than next year.
I also don't think it's a no-brainer to extend him. Nearly his entire contract will take place in his 30's. We don't need another Brad Richards situation.
I'm not sure about that. I'm sure some will construe this Zibanejad year as a one-year apparition. With another year like that, he'll silence all the naysayers and doubters and he'll officially be cemented as a first line C.
That's true, but he's clearly hitting his stride and is in the prime of his career. His status can be revisited in a couple of years before he hits free agency, but to do so now seems unnecessary, especially when the Rangers severely lack centers, we don't have much cap space (and Zibanejad is on a pretty team-friendly deal) and Zibanjead is coming off an unreal year.
My guess is that Zibanejad (MAYBE Kreider) will be given the C in a few months and then after he's gone, the C will go to Lafreniere.
Hoya, I touched on this in another thread with pj - the list of teams with comparable or better elite talent (and that's assuming AF and Kakko pan out) who still suck is pretty long.
The Rangers already handed out some deals I don't like 3-4 years from now. I don't think I want to give Zibanejad a seven year deal.
I think the rebuild so far has been due to luck and not great management. This off-season and next will really dictate if they're going to be a contender long-term.
I hear what you're saying, but that's quite a negative tint on things.
I'm not terribly concerned with how we got to where we are right now. To a certain extent, even without making terribly savvy decisions, you accumulate some nice things by leaning into a rebuild and enduring some losing. No apologies for that.
Lots of young talent. One of the best scorers in the game signed long term. 2 first rounders incluing #1 overall. $18M+ of truly dead weight rolling off after next season. A young goalie who looks like a stud.
There are surely things to navigate. Good reasons to be excited though.
left on the Zibanejad contract. It's coming soon, this will be a tricky one. Good news is a ton of money comes off the books after this season with Hank, Staal, and Smith
I'm very excited, for sure - I'm just nervous looking at franchises that have had comparable lottery luck and have stuck with mediocre management for too long because they saw some progress.
I am insanely high on Fox. I think they need another 2 top four dmen, which may come from the system, and more bottom six talent and they could be set.
I think the Zibanejad question is the most important going forward. I think you can win with guys like Trouba (good players who are a little overpaid), but you can't have too many of them. The prospect of 40-50 point production from Zibanejad when he's getting paid $10+ as the Rangers should be competing is a terrifying one.
I think the Rangers cost themselves a longer window with their poor analysis of aging curves back in 2014. I can see scenarios where this team has a window like the Lightning do now, or one where they make the playoffs every year but are never elite.
left on the Zibanejad contract. It's coming soon, this will be a tricky one. Good news is a ton of money comes off the books after this season with Hank, Staal, and Smith
Right. That's huge. But aside from Zibanejad, Kakko and Fox's ELCs will be up.
left on the Zibanejad contract. It's coming soon, this will be a tricky one. Good news is a ton of money comes off the books after this season with Hank, Staal, and Smith
Right. That's huge. But aside from Zibanejad, Kakko and Fox's ELCs will be up.
Also Hoya, I think the Rangers did a great job sending out that letter, tearing down the team, accumulating assets, etc. I'm thrilled with the rebuild so far, but they've gotten a lot of luck with Kakko/Fox/AF (which literally every Cup team needs, of course). I didn't mean to sound so negative!
are trade assets imv, would rather try to move them for more, cheaper assets and start to carve out the extra cap space for core players. Gonna need those assets to bolster C, D, and give bigger deals to core players. Perhaps Fast will remain NYR when the dust clears, lol.
Players I think have likely played their last game as a Ranger:
Fast (UFA)
Henrik
Georgiev
Staal
Lias Andersson
Players I could really see being traded (I would say 50/50):
Strome (RFA)
Deangelo (RFA)
Buchnevich
Smith
Players that have a shot at being dealt (we'll say less than 15%):
Kreider (logjam at LW and it would free up cap space)
Chytil (if they see his future on the wing instead of down the middle)
Kravtsov (in a similar prospect swap, but for a position of need like C or LD)
Smith
Because there is a logjam at the wing
Kreider
Panarin
Laf
Kakko
Kravtsov
Buchnevich
Gauthier
Possibly Chytil (if they like him more at W than C)
Fast (if we re-sign him)
Lemieux (RFA)
The only way I can see Laf not being a Ranger is if the Rangers REALLY love Byfield, LA passes on Byfield, and Ottawa comes in with a Godfather offer. I'm talking #3, #5 and the Islanders first round pick, or #3, the Islanders pick and Brady Tkachuk.
If they could turn some combination of Strome, Deangelo, Georgiev, and Andersson into a top-pair LD and a 2nd line C, Gorton will have done a masterful job. I'm tempted to keep Georgiev though to relieve Igor as this really will be his rookie season. Realistically, I think you're looking at a lineup of (assuming no switches at wing):
Kreider-Zibanjead-Buchnevich
Panarin-XX (maybe sign Mikael Granlund)-Kakko
Lafreniere-Chytil (who I think is more suited to the wing)-Kravtsov
Lemieux-Howden-Gauthier
XX-Trouba
Lindgren-Fox
Hajek/Reunanen/-Smith
Igor
Georgiev
With Miller starting in the AHL. Lundkvist comes over next year. Robertson and Zac Jones in the pipeline as well.
The Seattle expansion draft also has to play into the calculus on decision making this offseason too.
Please no buyouts - we need as much cap flexibility in 2021-2022 as possible and we’re already stuck with dead money on shattenkirk and Girardi. And who knows what the cap will look like with covid impact.
but they might need to just to squeeze out cap space this Fall for next season, like with Shattenkirk. It could be a locker room thing too, players can't be happy watching Hank relegated to the bench and then not be worth his contract either. Same with Staal and Smith.
....
Please no buyouts - we need as much cap flexibility in 2021-2022 as possible and we’re already stuck with dead money on shattenkirk and Girardi. And who knows what the cap will look like with covid impact.
This has been your refrain, consistently, to your credit. What I can't quite dope out is if it's a guise for holding a candle for Henrik.
Who are you referring too? To me that with Gorton and JD they have the right guys in the front office building the roster. Quinn? He'll get one more year, which is fair, to either get this team to the next level or he's gone. That's not sticking with mediocre too long. So where are you going with this?
The first decision facing the Rangers is buyouts. Two ways to go here. Buyout Hank and his bigger deal or buyout two smaller contracts. Hopefully Hank hangs 'em up and that problem is solved. If not it is what it is.
This team isn't a Cup contender in 2021 anyway. Lafrenierre, Kakko, K'Andre, Fox, Lindgren, Chytil, Kravstov and Gautier need more time to learn what it takes to fight for a Stanley Cup. It's part of the growing process. Nils Lundkkvist won't be here yet to replace DeAngelo's offense. This is a ridiculously young core right now but oh so talented.
Forget about mediocre management doing stupid shit, they have the players already they just have to show some fucking patience. The 'vets' are young enough to allow the team to growup. Panarin, Mika and Kreids all have plenty of prime years left.
Torrag, I was referring to other teams such as Edmonton, Florida, and Buffalo, not the Rangers. Those teams have been squandering elite talent. Buffalo and Florida finally made changes this off-season, but Florida seemed to view their intermittent playoff appearances as the sign of a solid plan for too long IMV.
and I agree. The way young stars go to die in Edmonton is an embarrassment. Fuck sake how many #1 overalls and Top 5 picks do you need to build a winner?
....
Please no buyouts - we need as much cap flexibility in 2021-2022 as possible and we’re already stuck with dead money on shattenkirk and Girardi. And who knows what the cap will look like with covid impact.
This has been your refrain, consistently, to your credit. What I can't quite dope out is if it's a guise for holding a candle for Henrik.
Ha - no I’ve moved on from Hank. Sucks, really wanted a cup for him but he’s clearly no longer what he was and that ship has sailed. I do have some concerns about Igors durability but if we’re going to have any shot of sustaining success with this young group we are going to need to keep the goalie position very cheap for a while.
and I agree. The way young stars go to die in Edmonton is an embarrassment. Fuck sake how many #1 overalls and Top 5 picks do you need to build a winner?
It's awful. I would throw the Leafs in there too but I think they actually have a pretty good team that's had bad luck in terms of facing a hot goalie against Columbus and an elite Boston team in prior years.
a casual Ranger fan at this point, and 100% not suggesting actually trading the pick but roughly how many current NHL players would you guys trade the pick 1 for 1 for?
Torrag, I was referring to other teams such as Edmonton, Florida, and Buffalo, not the Rangers. Those teams have been squandering elite talent. Buffalo and Florida finally made changes this off-season, but Florida seemed to view their intermittent playoff appearances as the sign of a solid plan for too long IMV.
A little harsh on Florida I was a season ticket holder there for 4 years - aside from that Vegas trade there haven’t been too many blunders there, they just don’t have the money/budget to compete every year and the only top 5 picks I think they’ve had in the past 10 years are Ekblad, Barkov And Huberdeau. All pretty solid choices - I guess they’d have preferred Draisatle to Ekblad
They’ve really just been stuck in no mans land too much lately - not making the playoffs but still talented enough to be picking in the teens.
The worst thing that could have happened to Toronto
Was the massive success they had in Matthews first year. They needed another year or two of high draft picks to build a cast and especially a defense around him. They have very few NHL calibre defensemen on that roster in my opinion.
a casual Ranger fan at this point, and 100% not suggesting actually trading the pick but roughly how many current NHL players would you guys trade the pick 1 for 1 for?
Off the top of my head, in all honestly, around 5 or less I would think. If you're factoring in age, I'd probably take my chances with the pick over someone like Crosby who is already 33. Crosby would also obviously come with a hefty cap hit. Ditto Ovechkin re: age/cost.
I'd trade the pick for McDavid obviously. I'd trade it for Matthews. Draisaitl, Pastrnak... MacKinnon. Eichel?
Not really anyone outside of there that I can think of.
When you factor in the cap hits of those players you just listed
I’d keep the pick... mcdavid is the only that give me pause. Even there Mcdavids cap hit is 12.5 per year for 8 years.
Between him Trouba and Panarin you’d already be in the situation pitt was in when they had Kessell which yeah they got two cups out of that but it’s tough to put so much of your cap into just 3 players. Trouba was a big time mistake, I said it last year before he signed. Cut Shattenkirk And paying him another 3 years too for that.
Yeah, the cap hits are all good arguments for keeping the pick. I guess my counterargument there is just that we already know these guys are superstars - I think Draisaitl had 110 points in 70 games when they hit pause. He was close to an APG and had over 40 goals on top of it.
Obviously we hope we'll get a true star in Lafreniere but the tradeoff is the chance that he isn't or that he's merely 'good.'
Even good 1st pair defensemen need a decent linemate and he hasn't had one here yet. Also he's still very young at 26 and NY had to be an adjustment for him. His best hockey should be in front of him not in the rear view mirror. I'll hit the pause button and postpone judgement on that deal for a little while.
Players I think have likely played their last game as a Ranger:
Henrik
Georgiev
Georgiev didn't seem to garner much interest at the trade deadline, so why would he be gone, unless Henrik wants to return and the team decides he's earned the right to play out his final year? (And if they do get a deal they like for Georgiev, I assume they'd want a veteran backup for Igor, which would eat up most, if not all, of the 2021 savings from a buyout anyway, so why wouldn't they just roll with Henrik, unless he decides to retire).
picks are always more valuable than the player taken with them because of the hype/unknown/risk.
I would trade the #1 pick straight up for:
McDavid
MacKinnon
Pastrnak
Auston Matthews
Miro Heiskenan
probably Draisatl
probably Kucherov
and maybe a couple more. Maybe I'd get a sweetener with Heiskanen or Draisatl. Who knows, but basically these guys are super stars at a relatively young age.
With the guys above there is no risk other than injury.
With Lafreniere as sure of a thing as he is, until he becomes a star there is a risk he won't.
I'd trade the pick for an established young superstar to remove the risk.
but it's not about Lafreniere it's thee same with every #1 overall pick. Same thread could have been started for Nail Yakupov. Sure, Lafreniere is a better prospect, but at that draft everyone expected Yakupov to be a star for a long time.
predicting 17/18 year olds growth and maturity is inexact.
so we can expect 700 goals 1200 assists 1900 points.
Sure he is.
15 all star games, 2nd most NHL games played, 9th most goals, 3rd most assists, 3rd most points in NHL history.
Sure he is.
Oh yeah and the 6 Cups too.
Sure he is.
I think people mean his playing style when they compare him to an NHL player.
So you can take player comps to be what they are or you can take them that the person meant literally the 18 year old would match someone's career statistics, accolades, and team success.
this is completely your choice.
DanMetroMan: 'Sounds like they have begn buyout talks with Henrik'
Speculation or source? I saw a few articles speculating he may retire and play with his brother for Frolunda rather than sit for the Rangers. I took that as wishful thinking as so few players ever leave prime money on a contract. I haven't yet seen reports they've approached him about a buyout.
Torrag, I was referring to other teams such as Edmonton, Florida, and Buffalo, not the Rangers. Those teams have been squandering elite talent. Buffalo and Florida finally made changes this off-season, but Florida seemed to view their intermittent playoff appearances as the sign of a solid plan for too long IMV.
A little harsh on Florida I was a season ticket holder there for 4 years - aside from that Vegas trade there haven’t been too many blunders there, they just don’t have the money/budget to compete every year and the only top 5 picks I think they’ve had in the past 10 years are Ekblad, Barkov And Huberdeau. All pretty solid choices - I guess they’d have preferred Draisatle to Ekblad
They’ve really just been stuck in no mans land too much lately - not making the playoffs but still talented enough to be picking in the teens.
The Vegas expansion trade was one of the dumbest thing on the face of the earth. Throwing all that money at Bobrovsky was also idiotic. FL has a good core, to not build around them to build at least a sustainable playoff team is embarrassing.
Check out this article:
Quote:
Florida changed internally a lot earlier than conventional wisdom would have you believe. Lawrence and Weissbock actually began collaborating with Werier as early as 2015 — well before he was named AGM — using their public CHL Stats website data to complement a data-driven draft board, built as an alternative to the conventional board built by Tallon’s trusted scouts, who number less than a handful. That board is the talk of urban legend but among other major differences from Florida’s board under Tallon, this one recommended Barzal, Connor and Konecny in the top 10, each far above Lawson Crouse, who Tallon selected at 11.
There were huge battles between Tallon’s scouts and Viola’s new staff in the war room. In 2016 some of Tallon’s old scouts got in a shouting match over Adam Fox not being good and just having “good analytics” because he “played with good players” on the national development team.
picks are always more valuable than the player taken with them because of the hype/unknown/risk.
I would trade the #1 pick straight up for:
Isn't it a bit silly to ignore the other side of this transaction? Which of those GMs would let go of the names you mentioned one up for the first pick/Alexis? If these hypothetical swaps are not grounded in reality, the equation changes when the other side asks for more, maybe considerably more. To your point, the value in the pick/player chosen with the first, has a lot of embedded value in the intangibles, the unknown.
RE: DanMetroMan: 'Sounds like they have begn buyout talks with Henrik'
Speculation or source? I saw a few articles speculating he may retire and play with his brother for Frolunda rather than sit for the Rangers. I took that as wishful thinking as so few players ever leave prime money on a contract. I haven't yet seen reports they've approached him about a buyout.
JD said he and Henrik had a discussion about the future but it would remain private. So I guess "educated" speculation? You're right, it's possible the discussion was regarding retirement.
"Vince Z. Mercogliano
@vzmercogliano
·
33m
JD on Henrik Lundqvist:
"Knowing the professional individual that Hank is, I can tell you that when we got off the plane back from Toronto, I did have a discussion with him – a personal discussion. We'll leave it at that. We will continue having our discussions.""
dollar amount to be made with Frolunda, perhaps a mutual understanding can be reached insofar as some future paid gigs with the organization that would bridge the gap.
You returning to Rangers threads? Nah, still can't believe it.
Aww are we a devs fan perhaps? Poor guy
Lafreniere is the clear pick. He's the best prospect since McDavid (though not on his level, given that McDavid was coming in as one of the best skaters anyone had ever seen.)
It is possible that Byfield grows into the better pro, but that is always going to be the case when drafting teenagers.
The question now becomes roster construction. We are loaded on the wings. Does someone make the move to pivot, or do we deal? Probably the latter. Guys who come with big cap hits like Eichel should be crossed off our list. We also shouldn't even consider going long term with TDA or Strome. We need an affordable center or two that can win faceoffs and chase pucks. Preserve our precious cap space for keeping our core together long term.
Strome/TDA are guys that I like a lot but need to go because those roles need to be filled with cheaper players.
I'd even try to move Kreider/Trouba, although I think the NMC's made that impossible.
The Rangers need to make a decision on Zibanejad - do you extend him? If not, I'd trade him.
In terms of hype, I think he's below Matthews/Tavares and maybe a little above Stamkos? Crosby/McDavid were in another tier with Ovechkin just a little behind, I think.
I think AF is the easy pick. You don't let positional need drive that #1 OA decision. But it does leave C as a need in both the near and intermediate term.
Would seem to make sense to consolidate the prospect stash a little bit to upgrade center now. But between the buyouts already made and Henrik and Staal, you don't have much financial wiggle room to trade prospect for current salary/production.
I don't think a team with Strome at 2C is a deep playoff contender, but maybe they stay patient for one more season while some money burns off?
Maybe a short-term deal to a Spezza/Haula could patch up 2C and push Strome to 3C? But is Howden really a 4C type? Should they be rolling 4 finesse lines with such young talent or using that 4th line for some grit and grind?
Quote:
Still on cloud nine. We get to watch Lafreniere and Kakko possibly play on Broadway for the next decade or two. This is how successful rebuilds start in hockey: see the Penguins and Blackhawks for recent examples (just don't look at the Oilers).
Lafreniere is the clear pick. He's the best prospect since McDavid (though not on his level, given that McDavid was coming in as one of the best skaters anyone had ever seen.)
It is possible that Byfield grows into the better pro, but that is always going to be the case when drafting teenagers.
The question now becomes roster construction. We are loaded on the wings. Does someone make the move to pivot, or do we deal? Probably the latter. Guys who come with big cap hits like Eichel should be crossed off our list. We also shouldn't even consider going long term with TDA or Strome. We need an affordable center or two that can win faceoffs and chase pucks. Preserve our precious cap space for keeping our core together long term.
The Rangers need to make a decision on Zibanejad - do you extend him? If not, I'd trade him.
C'mon, Brettski. That's not a decision that should be made this year and as of now, it looks like a no-brainer to extend him. He's the only legit C we have.
The Rangers already handed out some deals I don't like 3-4 years from now. I don't think I want to give Zibanejad a seven year deal.
I think the rebuild so far has been due to luck and not great management. This off-season and next will really dictate if they're going to be a contender long-term.
Quote:
In comment 14947556 FearTheHippo said:
Quote:
Still on cloud nine. We get to watch Lafreniere and Kakko possibly play on Broadway for the next decade or two. This is how successful rebuilds start in hockey: see the Penguins and Blackhawks for recent examples (just don't look at the Oilers).
Lafreniere is the clear pick. He's the best prospect since McDavid (though not on his level, given that McDavid was coming in as one of the best skaters anyone had ever seen.)
It is possible that Byfield grows into the better pro, but that is always going to be the case when drafting teenagers.
The question now becomes roster construction. We are loaded on the wings. Does someone make the move to pivot, or do we deal? Probably the latter. Guys who come with big cap hits like Eichel should be crossed off our list. We also shouldn't even consider going long term with TDA or Strome. We need an affordable center or two that can win faceoffs and chase pucks. Preserve our precious cap space for keeping our core together long term.
The Rangers need to make a decision on Zibanejad - do you extend him? If not, I'd trade him.
C'mon, Brettski. That's not a decision that should be made this year and as of now, it looks like a no-brainer to extend him. He's the only legit C we have.
Why shouldn't the decision be made now? If you want to trade him, his value will be higher now than next year.
I also don't think it's a no-brainer to extend him. Nearly his entire contract will take place in his 30's. We don't need another Brad Richards situation.
Quote:
In comment 14947580 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
In comment 14947556 FearTheHippo said:
Quote:
Still on cloud nine. We get to watch Lafreniere and Kakko possibly play on Broadway for the next decade or two. This is how successful rebuilds start in hockey: see the Penguins and Blackhawks for recent examples (just don't look at the Oilers).
Lafreniere is the clear pick. He's the best prospect since McDavid (though not on his level, given that McDavid was coming in as one of the best skaters anyone had ever seen.)
It is possible that Byfield grows into the better pro, but that is always going to be the case when drafting teenagers.
The question now becomes roster construction. We are loaded on the wings. Does someone make the move to pivot, or do we deal? Probably the latter. Guys who come with big cap hits like Eichel should be crossed off our list. We also shouldn't even consider going long term with TDA or Strome. We need an affordable center or two that can win faceoffs and chase pucks. Preserve our precious cap space for keeping our core together long term.
The Rangers need to make a decision on Zibanejad - do you extend him? If not, I'd trade him.
C'mon, Brettski. That's not a decision that should be made this year and as of now, it looks like a no-brainer to extend him. He's the only legit C we have.
Why shouldn't the decision be made now? If you want to trade him, his value will be higher now than next year.
I also don't think it's a no-brainer to extend him. Nearly his entire contract will take place in his 30's. We don't need another Brad Richards situation.
I'm not sure about that. I'm sure some will construe this Zibanejad year as a one-year apparition. With another year like that, he'll silence all the naysayers and doubters and he'll officially be cemented as a first line C.
That's true, but he's clearly hitting his stride and is in the prime of his career. His status can be revisited in a couple of years before he hits free agency, but to do so now seems unnecessary, especially when the Rangers severely lack centers, we don't have much cap space (and Zibanejad is on a pretty team-friendly deal) and Zibanjead is coming off an unreal year.
My guess is that Zibanejad (MAYBE Kreider) will be given the C in a few months and then after he's gone, the C will go to Lafreniere.
Same.😑
The Rangers already handed out some deals I don't like 3-4 years from now. I don't think I want to give Zibanejad a seven year deal.
I think the rebuild so far has been due to luck and not great management. This off-season and next will really dictate if they're going to be a contender long-term.
I hear what you're saying, but that's quite a negative tint on things.
I'm not terribly concerned with how we got to where we are right now. To a certain extent, even without making terribly savvy decisions, you accumulate some nice things by leaning into a rebuild and enduring some losing. No apologies for that.
Lots of young talent. One of the best scorers in the game signed long term. 2 first rounders incluing #1 overall. $18M+ of truly dead weight rolling off after next season. A young goalie who looks like a stud.
There are surely things to navigate. Good reasons to be excited though.
I am insanely high on Fox. I think they need another 2 top four dmen, which may come from the system, and more bottom six talent and they could be set.
I think the Zibanejad question is the most important going forward. I think you can win with guys like Trouba (good players who are a little overpaid), but you can't have too many of them. The prospect of 40-50 point production from Zibanejad when he's getting paid $10+ as the Rangers should be competing is a terrifying one.
I think the Rangers cost themselves a longer window with their poor analysis of aging curves back in 2014. I can see scenarios where this team has a window like the Lightning do now, or one where they make the playoffs every year but are never elite.
Right. That's huge. But aside from Zibanejad, Kakko and Fox's ELCs will be up.
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left on the Zibanejad contract. It's coming soon, this will be a tricky one. Good news is a ton of money comes off the books after this season with Hank, Staal, and Smith
Right. That's huge. But aside from Zibanejad, Kakko and Fox's ELCs will be up.
And Igor's as well
Fast (UFA)
Henrik
Georgiev
Staal
Lias Andersson
Players I could really see being traded (I would say 50/50):
Strome (RFA)
Deangelo (RFA)
Buchnevich
Smith
Players that have a shot at being dealt (we'll say less than 15%):
Kreider (logjam at LW and it would free up cap space)
Chytil (if they see his future on the wing instead of down the middle)
Kravtsov (in a similar prospect swap, but for a position of need like C or LD)
Smith
Because there is a logjam at the wing
Kreider
Panarin
Laf
Kakko
Kravtsov
Buchnevich
Gauthier
Possibly Chytil (if they like him more at W than C)
Fast (if we re-sign him)
Lemieux (RFA)
The only way I can see Laf not being a Ranger is if the Rangers REALLY love Byfield, LA passes on Byfield, and Ottawa comes in with a Godfather offer. I'm talking #3, #5 and the Islanders first round pick, or #3, the Islanders pick and Brady Tkachuk.
If they could turn some combination of Strome, Deangelo, Georgiev, and Andersson into a top-pair LD and a 2nd line C, Gorton will have done a masterful job. I'm tempted to keep Georgiev though to relieve Igor as this really will be his rookie season. Realistically, I think you're looking at a lineup of (assuming no switches at wing):
Kreider-Zibanjead-Buchnevich
Panarin-XX (maybe sign Mikael Granlund)-Kakko
Lafreniere-Chytil (who I think is more suited to the wing)-Kravtsov
Lemieux-Howden-Gauthier
XX-Trouba
Lindgren-Fox
Hajek/Reunanen/-Smith
Igor
Georgiev
With Miller starting in the AHL. Lundkvist comes over next year. Robertson and Zac Jones in the pipeline as well.
Oh yes you do. Greg has been rubbing off on you. You need to calm down. You're being too loud.
Please no buyouts - we need as much cap flexibility in 2021-2022 as possible and we’re already stuck with dead money on shattenkirk and Girardi. And who knows what the cap will look like with covid impact.
A Brendan Smith buyout will save the Rangers $1.566 million on the cap next season with a one year penalty of $783K in 2021-22.
Please no buyouts - we need as much cap flexibility in 2021-2022 as possible and we’re already stuck with dead money on shattenkirk and Girardi. And who knows what the cap will look like with covid impact.
The first decision facing the Rangers is buyouts. Two ways to go here. Buyout Hank and his bigger deal or buyout two smaller contracts. Hopefully Hank hangs 'em up and that problem is solved. If not it is what it is.
This team isn't a Cup contender in 2021 anyway. Lafrenierre, Kakko, K'Andre, Fox, Lindgren, Chytil, Kravstov and Gautier need more time to learn what it takes to fight for a Stanley Cup. It's part of the growing process. Nils Lundkkvist won't be here yet to replace DeAngelo's offense. This is a ridiculously young core right now but oh so talented.
Forget about mediocre management doing stupid shit, they have the players already they just have to show some fucking patience. The 'vets' are young enough to allow the team to growup. Panarin, Mika and Kreids all have plenty of prime years left.
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Please no buyouts - we need as much cap flexibility in 2021-2022 as possible and we’re already stuck with dead money on shattenkirk and Girardi. And who knows what the cap will look like with covid impact.
This has been your refrain, consistently, to your credit. What I can't quite dope out is if it's a guise for holding a candle for Henrik.
Ha - no I’ve moved on from Hank. Sucks, really wanted a cup for him but he’s clearly no longer what he was and that ship has sailed. I do have some concerns about Igors durability but if we’re going to have any shot of sustaining success with this young group we are going to need to keep the goalie position very cheap for a while.
It's awful. I would throw the Leafs in there too but I think they actually have a pretty good team that's had bad luck in terms of facing a hot goalie against Columbus and an elite Boston team in prior years.
A little harsh on Florida I was a season ticket holder there for 4 years - aside from that Vegas trade there haven’t been too many blunders there, they just don’t have the money/budget to compete every year and the only top 5 picks I think they’ve had in the past 10 years are Ekblad, Barkov And Huberdeau. All pretty solid choices - I guess they’d have preferred Draisatle to Ekblad
They’ve really just been stuck in no mans land too much lately - not making the playoffs but still talented enough to be picking in the teens.
Off the top of my head, in all honestly, around 5 or less I would think. If you're factoring in age, I'd probably take my chances with the pick over someone like Crosby who is already 33. Crosby would also obviously come with a hefty cap hit. Ditto Ovechkin re: age/cost.
I'd trade the pick for McDavid obviously. I'd trade it for Matthews. Draisaitl, Pastrnak... MacKinnon. Eichel?
Not really anyone outside of there that I can think of.
Between him Trouba and Panarin you’d already be in the situation pitt was in when they had Kessell which yeah they got two cups out of that but it’s tough to put so much of your cap into just 3 players. Trouba was a big time mistake, I said it last year before he signed. Cut Shattenkirk And paying him another 3 years too for that.
Obviously we hope we'll get a true star in Lafreniere but the tradeoff is the chance that he isn't or that he's merely 'good.'
Hard to see him flopping, but it happens.
Henrik
Georgiev
Georgiev didn't seem to garner much interest at the trade deadline, so why would he be gone, unless Henrik wants to return and the team decides he's earned the right to play out his final year? (And if they do get a deal they like for Georgiev, I assume they'd want a veteran backup for Igor, which would eat up most, if not all, of the 2021 savings from a buyout anyway, so why wouldn't they just roll with Henrik, unless he decides to retire).
I would trade the #1 pick straight up for:
McDavid
MacKinnon
Pastrnak
Auston Matthews
Miro Heiskenan
probably Draisatl
probably Kucherov
and maybe a couple more. Maybe I'd get a sweetener with Heiskanen or Draisatl. Who knows, but basically these guys are super stars at a relatively young age.
With the guys above there is no risk other than injury.
With Lafreniere as sure of a thing as he is, until he becomes a star there is a risk he won't.
I'd trade the pick for an established young superstar to remove the risk.
but it's not about Lafreniere it's thee same with every #1 overall pick. Same thread could have been started for Nail Yakupov. Sure, Lafreniere is a better prospect, but at that draft everyone expected Yakupov to be a star for a long time.
predicting 17/18 year olds growth and maturity is inexact.
Sure he is.
15 all star games, 2nd most NHL games played, 9th most goals, 3rd most assists, 3rd most points in NHL history.
Sure he is.
Oh yeah and the 6 Cups too.
Sure he is.
I think people mean his playing style when they compare him to an NHL player.
So you can take player comps to be what they are or you can take them that the person meant literally the 18 year old would match someone's career statistics, accolades, and team success.
this is completely your choice.
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Torrag, I was referring to other teams such as Edmonton, Florida, and Buffalo, not the Rangers. Those teams have been squandering elite talent. Buffalo and Florida finally made changes this off-season, but Florida seemed to view their intermittent playoff appearances as the sign of a solid plan for too long IMV.
A little harsh on Florida I was a season ticket holder there for 4 years - aside from that Vegas trade there haven’t been too many blunders there, they just don’t have the money/budget to compete every year and the only top 5 picks I think they’ve had in the past 10 years are Ekblad, Barkov And Huberdeau. All pretty solid choices - I guess they’d have preferred Draisatle to Ekblad
They’ve really just been stuck in no mans land too much lately - not making the playoffs but still talented enough to be picking in the teens.
The Vegas expansion trade was one of the dumbest thing on the face of the earth. Throwing all that money at Bobrovsky was also idiotic. FL has a good core, to not build around them to build at least a sustainable playoff team is embarrassing.
Check out this article:
There were huge battles between Tallon’s scouts and Viola’s new staff in the war room. In 2016 some of Tallon’s old scouts got in a shouting match over Adam Fox not being good and just having “good analytics” because he “played with good players” on the national development team.
The Province - ( New Window )
I would trade the #1 pick straight up for:
JD said he and Henrik had a discussion about the future but it would remain private. So I guess "educated" speculation? You're right, it's possible the discussion was regarding retirement.
"Vince Z. Mercogliano
@vzmercogliano
·
33m
JD on Henrik Lundqvist:
"Knowing the professional individual that Hank is, I can tell you that when we got off the plane back from Toronto, I did have a discussion with him – a personal discussion. We'll leave it at that. We will continue having our discussions.""
wishful thinking.