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NFT: AHHHHHHHH!!!! RANGERS GOT THE FIRST OVERALL PICK!!!!

Anakim : 8/10/2020 6:18 pm
WE DID IT! WE FUCKING DID IT, BABY!
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Yeah. If you're going to throw out a name such as Messier's  
Route 9 : 8/11/2020 4:03 pm : link
we might show a hint of excitement, or maybe have a skeptical attitude.
RE: Herman on Alexis  
montanagiant : 8/11/2020 5:13 pm : link
In comment 14947782 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
https://www.blueshirtbanter.com/2020/8/11/21361435/what-the-rangers-are-probably-getting-in-alexis-lafreniere-scouting-report-draft-lottery?utm_campaign=adamzherman&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

Excellent link, thanks for posting that
RE: Number one  
DanMetroMan : 8/11/2020 5:25 pm : link
In comment 14947794 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
picks are always more valuable than the player taken with them because of the hype/unknown/risk.

I would trade the #1 pick straight up for:

McDavid
MacKinnon
Pastrnak
Auston Matthews
Miro Heiskenan
probably Draisatl
probably Kucherov
and maybe a couple more. Maybe I'd get a sweetener with Heiskanen or Draisatl. Who knows, but basically these guys are super stars at a relatively young age.

With the guys above there is no risk other than injury.

With Lafreniere as sure of a thing as he is, until he becomes a star there is a risk he won't.

I'd trade the pick for an established young superstar to remove the risk.

but it's not about Lafreniere it's thee same with every #1 overall pick. Same thread could have been started for Nail Yakupov. Sure, Lafreniere is a better prospect, but at that draft everyone expected Yakupov to be a star for a long time.

predicting 17/18 year olds growth and maturity is inexact.


PJ,
Similar question (maybe harder to answer) where would you rank Lafreniere when comparing him to say the last... 10 1st overall picks (at the time of the draft) not how they turned out.
Lafreniere is going to be better than  
Vanzetti : 8/11/2020 7:47 pm : link
Matthews and MacKinnon

I don't get the trade Deangelo crowd...  
BC Eagles94 : 8/11/2020 7:49 pm : link
The guy is the best offensive d-men we've had since Leetch. Period. We chased guys for years trying to find one...Wade Redden, Keith Yandle, Dan Boyle, Kevin Shattenkirk. None of those guys ever panned out. And none of them ever had a season in their careers, quite like Deangelo just had...besides Boyle early in his career.
RE: I don't get the trade Deangelo crowd...  
Davisian : 8/11/2020 8:11 pm : link
In comment 14947986 BC Eagles94 said:
Quote:
The guy is the best offensive d-men we've had since Leetch. Period. We chased guys for years trying to find one...Wade Redden, Keith Yandle, Dan Boyle, Kevin Shattenkirk. None of those guys ever panned out. And none of them ever had a season in their careers, quite like Deangelo just had...besides Boyle early in his career.


Because he's not that good of a defender yet hes gonna get paid (deservedly) and they can't afford him with a cap crunch and him being one dimensional when they have assets at the position and have other holes to fill.

TDA  
XBRONX : 8/11/2020 8:11 pm : link
stinks defensively.
.  
arcarsenal : 8/11/2020 8:21 pm : link
I would trade TDA before I paid him.
RE: RE: Number one  
Anakim : 8/11/2020 8:56 pm : link
In comment 14947892 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 14947794 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


picks are always more valuable than the player taken with them because of the hype/unknown/risk.

I would trade the #1 pick straight up for:

McDavid
MacKinnon
Pastrnak
Auston Matthews
Miro Heiskenan
probably Draisatl
probably Kucherov
and maybe a couple more. Maybe I'd get a sweetener with Heiskanen or Draisatl. Who knows, but basically these guys are super stars at a relatively young age.

With the guys above there is no risk other than injury.

With Lafreniere as sure of a thing as he is, until he becomes a star there is a risk he won't.

I'd trade the pick for an established young superstar to remove the risk.

but it's not about Lafreniere it's thee same with every #1 overall pick. Same thread could have been started for Nail Yakupov. Sure, Lafreniere is a better prospect, but at that draft everyone expected Yakupov to be a star for a long time.

predicting 17/18 year olds growth and maturity is inexact.




PJ,
Similar question (maybe harder to answer) where would you rank Lafreniere when comparing him to say the last... 10 1st overall picks (at the time of the draft) not how they turned out.



Brettski posted an article from the Athletic a couple of days ago regarding where Lafreniere falls:

1. McDavid
2. Matthews
3. MacKinnon
4. Dahlin
5. Alexis Lafreniere
6. Hughes
7. Ekblad
8. Nico Hischier
9. Nugent-Hopkins
10. Hall



Personally, I think the list is bullshit. Realistically, Lafreniere is in a tier below McDavid (who was truly generational) and in the same level as Matthews and MacKinnon. I think you'll hear different rankings, but pundits usually have some form of Matthews, MacKinnon, and Lafreniere as 2-4.
Good watch  
MookGiants : 8/11/2020 9:01 pm : link
12 minutes long. Davidson is a terrific interview.

And as we all know besides Anak, Lafraniere is the pick. He said as much, despite trying to walk that back a bit. There's no decision obviously.
LINK - ( New Window )
.....  
BrettNYG10 : 8/11/2020 9:02 pm : link
In terms of pre-draft hype, I think he is below Matthews but maybe above MacKinnon. I don't remember MacKinnon being that hyped for a #1 pick.
RE: Good watch  
Anakim : 8/11/2020 9:05 pm : link
In comment 14948070 MookGiants said:
Quote:
12 minutes long. Davidson is a terrific interview.

And as we all know besides Anak, Lafraniere is the pick. He said as much, despite trying to walk that back a bit. There's no decision obviously. LINK - ( New Window )


I think Laf will be the pick and I think he'll be a superstar in the NHL and in New York City. If I was the Rangers, I wouldn't think twice. But seeing the trend from our scouts, I just don't think it's a no-brainer for the reasons I stated a few days ago. And, as the other Davidson (our Davisian) pointed out, the fact that we need a C and Byfield is almost a full year younger and may have a chance to narrow the gap between the two players makes it somewhat interesting.


At the end of the day, I think we take Laf, I would take Laf, and I wouldn't think twice about it. But I do worry that there will be some (maybe not a lot, but some) internal discussion about it.
RE: .....  
Anakim : 8/11/2020 9:06 pm : link
In comment 14948072 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
In terms of pre-draft hype, I think he is below Matthews but maybe above MacKinnon. I don't remember MacKinnon being that hyped for a #1 pick.


Matthews was hyped more as a goalscorer than anything, IIRC. And actually, I remember that there was a considerable amount of debate about whether Toronto should go with Matthews or with Laine. Laf is being hyped as a playmaker.
RE: RE: Good watch  
MookGiants : 8/11/2020 9:07 pm : link
In comment 14948076 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 14948070 MookGiants said:


Quote:


12 minutes long. Davidson is a terrific interview.

And as we all know besides Anak, Lafraniere is the pick. He said as much, despite trying to walk that back a bit. There's no decision obviously. LINK - ( New Window )



I think Laf will be the pick and I think he'll be a superstar in the NHL and in New York City. If I was the Rangers, I wouldn't think twice. But seeing the trend from our scouts, I just don't think it's a no-brainer for the reasons I stated a few days ago. And, as the other Davidson (our Davisian) pointed out, the fact that we need a C and Byfield is almost a full year younger and may have a chance to narrow the gap between the two players makes it somewhat interesting.


At the end of the day, I think we take Laf, I would take Laf, and I wouldn't think twice about it. But I do worry that there will be some (maybe not a lot, but some) internal discussion about it.


Stop it. There's not going to be a discussion. Watch that interview with Davidson and tell me there's going to be a discussion. Just stop it.
DMM the list from Brett  
pjcas18 : 8/11/2020 9:13 pm : link
is probably right or close to it.

Dahlin is the only one I'd push to flip with Lafreniere, but Dahlin was described as "McDavid but on D" and he hasn't disappointed, but he plays for a shitty Sabres team so he's probably overlooked.

Matthews put up 40 goals as a 19 year old rookie.
MacKinnon put up 63 points as an 18 year old rookie.

and no one was surprised

And neither has let up even a little bit since.

I have no idea how anyone can say Lafreniere is going to be better than Matthews or MacKinnon - who both play center by the way - a far more important position in hockey. People like that are the same who will probably call him a bust if he struggles at all as a rookie (I don't think he will, but who knows, you need a coach who will put him in a spot to succeed and get some confidence - not banished to a 4th line with Howden and Mckegg or DiGiuseppe.)

RE: RE: RE: Good watch  
Anakim : 8/11/2020 9:14 pm : link
In comment 14948079 MookGiants said:
Quote:
In comment 14948076 Anakim said:


Quote:


In comment 14948070 MookGiants said:


Quote:


12 minutes long. Davidson is a terrific interview.

And as we all know besides Anak, Lafraniere is the pick. He said as much, despite trying to walk that back a bit. There's no decision obviously. LINK - ( New Window )



I think Laf will be the pick and I think he'll be a superstar in the NHL and in New York City. If I was the Rangers, I wouldn't think twice. But seeing the trend from our scouts, I just don't think it's a no-brainer for the reasons I stated a few days ago. And, as the other Davidson (our Davisian) pointed out, the fact that we need a C and Byfield is almost a full year younger and may have a chance to narrow the gap between the two players makes it somewhat interesting.


At the end of the day, I think we take Laf, I would take Laf, and I wouldn't think twice about it. But I do worry that there will be some (maybe not a lot, but some) internal discussion about it.



Stop it. There's not going to be a discussion. Watch that interview with Davidson and tell me there's going to be a discussion. Just stop it.


It's called doing your due diligence.

And regardless, they should have a discussion about what to do if Pierre Dorion and Eugene Melnyk offer #3 and #5 or Brady Tkachuk to move up to #1.
Davidson  
MookGiants : 8/11/2020 9:25 pm : link
flat out said they were taking him at one point in the interview and you think they're going to have "discussions" after this. LOL.

They had discussions prior in the last few weeks. I'm sure they consisted of "Hey if we get the #1 pick we're taking Lafraniere, you guys on board with that"

It's a total slam dunk. There isnt a discussion to be had at this point, watch that interview again and tell me they are even going to consider someone else, they aren't. They've done enough work on these guys already, they knew for 6 weeks that they had a 12.5% chance at the 1 pick if they lost in the first round.

You're delusional if you think there's going to be any discussion on this now. The discussion on this already happened. They know who they are picking
There's zero chance  
MookGiants : 8/11/2020 9:28 pm : link
they are trading the 1st pick with Lafraniere sitting there unless they were offered a sure first young superstar and even then it would have to be one of a handful of guys that they arent going to be offered.

Take about 20% off there Mook  
Davisian : 8/11/2020 9:34 pm : link
Nobody's arguing that he's the guy and we'll be happy with him with all the available data.

There may be more data available before the pick. That's all.

RE: RE: .....  
BrettNYG10 : 8/11/2020 9:41 pm : link
In comment 14948077 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 14948072 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:


In terms of pre-draft hype, I think he is below Matthews but maybe above MacKinnon. I don't remember MacKinnon being that hyped for a #1 pick.



Matthews was hyped more as a goalscorer than anything, IIRC. And actually, I remember that there was a considerable amount of debate about whether Toronto should go with Matthews or with Laine. Laf is being hyped as a playmaker.


There's always the late hype for the 2nd guy, I don't really remember the Matthews discussion being close.

I trust pj on this more than myself, I don't follow the prospects that closely.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 8/11/2020 9:42 pm : link
"If the Rangers win the lottery, they should pick Gilbert Brule"-Anak and Davisian before the 2005 lottery
RE: ....  
Davisian : 8/11/2020 9:55 pm : link
In comment 14948113 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
"If the Rangers win the lottery, they should pick Gilbert Brule"-Anak and Davisian before the 2005 lottery


I celebrate his entire collection.
Kakko closed the gap with Hughes on the ice their last year in juniors  
Torrag : 8/11/2020 10:09 pm : link
How? he played as well or better than him in international play and he has a better pro body. The same can't be said about Byfield this season. Lafreniere had superior production, pressure results and demonstrable intangibles. The year age difference can be considered but projection doesn't trump performance and proven leadership skills.

I'll also add Lafreniere's skillset lends itself to playing Center. Hint Messier played left wing for four plus seasons before moving to Center. He has the rare vision, hands, passing touch, creativity, unselfishness and hockey sense to work the pivot.

The ONLY other possibility to even discuss is a trade for #3, #5 and a legit starting quality vet player...and this won't ever actually happen because they'd have to be certain to get Byfield to even consider it and he'll be gone. So Lafreniere will be a Ranger. Lock it in.

I'm also taking odds we'll hear how the Rangers are trying him at Center very early on.
There's no reason for them to outsmart themselves here  
Greg from LI : 8/11/2020 10:14 pm : link
Take the best prospect and don't look back.
Nobody's arguing any of that Torrag  
Davisian : 8/11/2020 10:15 pm : link
But there may be more hockey they play is all.

And also I'm bored and it's nice to get out of my bubble and hang with Anak and Gilbert Brule to mix things up...

Dav...'it's nice to get out of my bubble'  
Torrag : 8/11/2020 10:18 pm : link
Funny how the Rangers wish they were still in the bubble and your coming out of yours. Haha. We all know they'll pick him but I agree it's fun to debate these things. I like thinking out and presenting a good argument with as few holes in it as possible.
RE: Dav...'it's nice to get out of my bubble'  
Davisian : 8/11/2020 10:21 pm : link
In comment 14948155 Torrag said:
Quote:
with as few holes in it as possible.


So you've met Brett?
RE: RE: RE: .....  
pjcas18 : 8/11/2020 10:29 pm : link
In comment 14948109 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
In comment 14948077 Anakim said:


Quote:


In comment 14948072 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:


In terms of pre-draft hype, I think he is below Matthews but maybe above MacKinnon. I don't remember MacKinnon being that hyped for a #1 pick.



Matthews was hyped more as a goalscorer than anything, IIRC. And actually, I remember that there was a considerable amount of debate about whether Toronto should go with Matthews or with Laine. Laf is being hyped as a playmaker.



There's always the late hype for the 2nd guy, I don't really remember the Matthews discussion being close.

I trust pj on this more than myself, I don't follow the prospects that closely.


Matthews was wire to wire #1 overall pick for almost everyone (if not everyone). Lafreniere/Byfield was actually closer from what I remember before the 2019 WJC in January - where Lafreniere broke out and had 10 pts in 5 games and just flat out dominated or something crazy to lead Canada to the gold and he was named MVP (while Byfield struggled) and this was a year after pretty much a no-show for Lafreniere in the 2018 WJC (when he was 16).

Pretty sure pj and I have Center bias  
Davisian : 8/11/2020 10:34 pm : link
Especially massive ones who can skate.

Lafreniere checks every single box for me, but I get wondering if I'd rather have Malkin* than Kane*.

*Their impacts on a franchise, not the type of game they play

I have Center bias too, who doesn't....  
Torrag : 8/11/2020 10:39 pm : link
and it's undoubtedly our biggest need. But if you're going to take the lower ranked player due to position it has to be oh so close, like a sliver of a sliver. That's not the case here. And though Byfield is a tall kid he doesn't play a hard game(at least not yet) whereas Lafreniere has very good size and plays with an edge.
RE: ....  
Anakim : 8/11/2020 10:46 pm : link
In comment 14948113 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
"If the Rangers win the lottery, they should pick Gilbert Brule"-Anak and Davisian before the 2005 lottery


Creme brule?
RE: I have Center bias too, who doesn't....  
Davisian : 8/11/2020 10:50 pm : link
In comment 14948173 Torrag said:
Quote:
and it's undoubtedly our biggest need. But if you're going to take the lower ranked player due to position it has to be oh so close, like a sliver of a sliver. That's not the case here. And though Byfield is a tall kid he doesn't play a hard game(at least not yet) whereas Lafreniere has very good size and plays with an edge.


Byfield definitely plays with an edge, but agreed he's the lower ranked player.

Also, it's not the "edge" that would convince me to pick between Malkin and Kane
RE: RE: RE: RE: .....  
Anakim : 8/11/2020 10:56 pm : link
In comment 14948167 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14948109 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:


In comment 14948077 Anakim said:


Quote:


In comment 14948072 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:


In terms of pre-draft hype, I think he is below Matthews but maybe above MacKinnon. I don't remember MacKinnon being that hyped for a #1 pick.



Matthews was hyped more as a goalscorer than anything, IIRC. And actually, I remember that there was a considerable amount of debate about whether Toronto should go with Matthews or with Laine. Laf is being hyped as a playmaker.



There's always the late hype for the 2nd guy, I don't really remember the Matthews discussion being close.

I trust pj on this more than myself, I don't follow the prospects that closely.



Matthews was wire to wire #1 overall pick for almost everyone (if not everyone). Lafreniere/Byfield was actually closer from what I remember before the 2019 WJC in January - where Lafreniere broke out and had 10 pts in 5 games and just flat out dominated or something crazy to lead Canada to the gold and he was named MVP (while Byfield struggled) and this was a year after pretty much a no-show for Lafreniere in the 2018 WJC (when he was 16).



Fair enough. I didn't pay much attention to the draft in 2016...or 2015...or 2014....on account of the Rangers not having a first round pick. But I do recall a lot of love for Laine. Could've been a similar situation to what happened last year, where an outstanding WJC pushes the Euro winger over the American center in the minds of some.


I thought Laf was being touted as the top prospect from the Q since Crosby. He and Crosby are the only guys to win back-to-back CHL MVPs. I'm surprised that it was ever close between Laf and Byfield. Byfield is more projection than anything, it seems.
Link - ( New Window )
From the World Juniors thread  
BrettNYG10 : 8/11/2020 11:02 pm : link
The more I see him
pjcas18 : 1/2/2020 10:36 am : link
the more I'm convinced Lafreniere is closer to McDavid and Matthews than he is to Hughes/Kakko.

At one point I thought Byfield could catch Lafreniere because of Byfield's size and ridiculous scoring pace, but no, not before the June draft, if ever.

Lafreniere is probably the best #1 since McDavid/Matthews.

And I would trade a ton to move up and get him, with the draft in MTL and a Canadian kid projected #1, I'd love to see MTL somehow get him.

Kakko is the GOAT.
BrettNYG10 : 1/2/2020 10:44 am : link
Otherwise, agreed. That's what I thought watching him.
Genius.  
BrettNYG10 : 8/11/2020 11:03 pm : link
BrettNYG10 : 12/26/2019 4:24 pm : link
That wasn't a turnover, that was practice for when Miller and Lafreni�re are teammates with the Rangers. Idiots
It's a fair point because Byfield is bigger, faster, a full year  
Anakim : 8/11/2020 11:05 pm : link
younger than Laf and he plays C. But what sets them apart is Laf's vision, hockey IQ, and playmaking skills.
Ha! Saw that replay last night  
Davisian : 8/11/2020 11:07 pm : link
That'll be a talking point next camp
Here’s a hypo to chew on:  
Anakim : 8/11/2020 11:11 pm : link
Would you trade Kakko for Byfield?
Stop it .  
Davisian : 8/11/2020 11:16 pm : link
.
RE: Ha! Saw that replay last night  
BrettNYG10 : 8/11/2020 11:18 pm : link
In comment 14948185 Davisian said:
Quote:
That'll be a talking point next camp


Have you watched any of Miller in WI? I only saw him at the World Junior's and wasn't that impressed, but I read he did great in 'camp' last month.
RE: RE: Ha! Saw that replay last night  
Davisian : 8/11/2020 11:23 pm : link
In comment 14948188 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
In comment 14948185 Davisian said:


Quote:


That'll be a talking point next camp



Have you watched any of Miller in WI? I only saw him at the World Junior's and wasn't that impressed, but I read he did great in 'camp' last month.


I saw every shift he ever played as well as every other prospect ever because I have that kind of time.
So how many Norris's will he win?  
BrettNYG10 : 8/11/2020 11:46 pm : link
.
'Byfield definitely plays with an edge'  
Torrag : 8/11/2020 11:46 pm : link
Obviously it's a small sample given there is a limit to what's available to watch but not from what I saw. In fact he coasted a lot in his own end and was sort of 'hanging high' in the slot looking to breakout. Again in a very small sample but Lafreniere was far more active and physical.
RE: So how many Norris's will he win?  
Davisian : 8/11/2020 11:50 pm : link
In comment 14948193 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
.


All the Norrises. So many beautiful Norrises. You'll be tired of all the Norrises...
RE: Stop it .  
Anakim : 8/11/2020 11:58 pm : link
In comment 14948187 Davisian said:
Quote:
.


Huh? It’s a hypo. Pretty much asking PJ to compare the two.
RE: So how many Norris's will he win?  
Greg from LI : 8/12/2020 9:36 am : link
In comment 14948193 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
.


Mike Norris? Moochie Norris?
RE: RE: So how many Norris's will he win?  
arcarsenal : 8/12/2020 11:11 am : link
In comment 14948280 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14948193 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:


.



Mike Norris? Moochie Norris?


I am suddenly flooded with feelings of pain and anguish as a Knicks fan.
RE: Here’s a hypo to chew on:  
pjcas18 : 8/12/2020 12:21 pm : link
In comment 14948186 Anakim said:
Quote:
Would you trade Kakko for Byfield?


Yes, I would but just for two reasons, 1: Byfield is a C and 2: Byfield is physical beast - and I am old school, if I'm building a hockey team I build it with size.

When the caps won the cup I think only TJ Oshie was under 6 feet of their core. I know Kakko is > 6 feet, but Byfield is massive, the sub-sized defenders will struggle with him more than Kakko (who is good on the puck).
.....  
BrettNYG10 : 8/12/2020 1:00 pm : link
Rangers trading the first overall pick for a second line center confirmed.

"Great move, love it"-Anak and Davisian

Quote:
Does he keep the pick to take Lafrenière or make a deal that could help the Rangers land the No. 2 centre they have been so badly seeking?

Ottawa Sun - ( New Window )
RE: .....  
Anakim : 8/12/2020 1:32 pm : link
In comment 14948432 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Rangers trading the first overall pick for a second line center confirmed.

"Great move, love it"-Anak and Davisian



Quote:


Does he keep the pick to take Lafrenière or make a deal that could help the Rangers land the No. 2 centre they have been so badly seeking?

Ottawa Sun - ( New Window )



Garrioch is a notorious shit-stirrer
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