2020 is obviously going to be a season like none before. The Giants are in an extra deep hole because of the new coaching staff, new systems, youthful roster, no preseason games, etc.
Just suppose for a minute we crap the bed bad enough to win the Trevor Lawrence lottery, but Daniel Jones has shown well enough during the year that he undoubtedly has a bright future.
Do you or don't you Trevor? He'd bring a gold mine in trade but is he worth drafting as our future QB and giving up on Daniel?
Strictly hypothetical. Don't stone the messenger.
Even if I like alot of things re: DJ, and think he maybe can be a top 10 QB if there is some more development
Sunshine all the way
Being worst also means that Jones was rather hurt or really struggled. I'd take Lawrence, no question.
These two things are connected. Jones stinks (barring injury) so we have the number one pick, DG will be gone.
Being worst also means that Jones was rather hurt or really struggled. I'd take Lawrence, no question.
Agree on both.
Look at Luck - the Colts did nothing to help him but he still got them to multiple divisional rounds and a championship game. Could DJ have done that with the Colts supporting cast? Same thing with the Packers, who've done nothing to help Rogers yet he's gotten them deep into the playoffs many years.
With someone like Jones, you're going to have to really hit on draft picks and FA signings and manage the cap and get lucky to put a good team around him on both sides of the ball. It'll take multiple drafts/FA signings and that's assuming we hit on all of them.
Lawrence is highly regarded enough that I'd forgo giving the Jones the 3rd year in that situation. For the record, I don't think Jones will take a step back and I don't think we'll be in position to draft Lawrence, but I get this is hypothetical.
The Giants can truly be set at both tackles for 10 years.
jmo
For those saying he's not generation what exactly qualifies as that for you at the qb position? Because TL is as good as come out in a long time.
The Giants can truly be set at both tackles for 10 years.
This is the kind of hypothetical that lets you massage the "data points" to suit your personal preference. In my vision of the hypothetical, Lawrence's season upended by the virus so the scouts are left judging him based on his previous two seasons and his interviews. So his status as the #1 overall pick is pretty well cemented, but his sophomore season did signal a mild return to earth compared to his freshman highlights. And this is the QB position we're talking about: "no such thing as a sure thing" is truer of this position than any. A couple or so decades ago I read that Vinny Testeverde was the highest graded QB prospect ever by BLESTO (or maybe it was the other scouting service used by NFL teams) with a perfect 9.0 grade. How did that turn out? None of the top QBs from the past 20+ years was considered a generational talent coming out of school. And the scouting community was divided between Peyton and Leaf, that's how tough it is to project that position.
But it is the QB position we're talking about here, so what it really comes down to is what kind of year does Jones have? This hypothetical is really more about him than it is about Lawrence. Hard to come up with a scenario in which Jones has a good year but the Giants finish with football's worst record, but it's technically possible, especially if the season is cut short and the Giants wind up winning the lottery vs a handful of teams with the same 1-4 record (and maybe the Giants would've been 3-2 if not for missed field goals and extra points).
So in my hypothetical scenario, I agree with Larry. The Giants swing a 3-team trade that gives them the 2nd overall pick plus a boatload more that includes at least one future 1st rounder. And with the 2nd overall pick, the New York Football Giants select Penei Sewell. No better way to follow up Saquon and Daniel than with Andrew and Penei!
This is about Daniel Jones, not Trevor Lawrence.
But too many variables in the Giants crapping the bed to say grab the QB. Could be the offense was fine, but defense kept losing games 40-35....
This staff has a full year to evaluate that question. If they feel he can than keep building a better team. We already know his worth ethic, character, toughness and handling the media will work here. If the answer is no than you move on.
I am of the belief that no QB would have turned the Giants fortunes that greatly with the way the team has drafted and assembled talent the last 7-8 years.
We had a HOF Coach and QB at the end of 2011. Did they both just drop off the cliff?
Best QB prospect since Peyton, how can u say he’s not generational
But they seem to use it every 2-3 years.
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If Jones has decent/good year we stay the course. Just my view.
Best QB prospect since Peyton, how can u say he’s not generational
Based on what?
That said, unless DJ keeps shows no improvement in turnovers, I think the bird-in-the-hand argument for a young QB in NY is a MASSIVE plus for DJ, an Easy-E clone. Trevor Lawrence will probably be excellent that way, too, but... he'll merely be a two-in-the-bush option.
I would need to see him another year. He is very good, no doubt. But certainly not generational last year.
But Jones looked really good last year, so I hope we get to see him this year. Maybe it will be a moot point.
Peyton wasn't considered a generational talent?!? Are you kidding?
He would have been the #1 overall pick if he had come out the year before as a junior! He was the highest regarded QB prospect since Elway.
But if DJ shows he's addressed the fumbling issues and improved his decision making as a natural progression in season 2, we stick with him.
Any how if we are the worst team then it's time to do what's best for giants and either get a shit load of picks or draft TL.. DJ shouldn't really play a role in that discussion.
Why do some of you have to change the hypothetical to "he sucked" just to give a view?
i was just about to post the exact same thing
i'm really really hoping we arent drafting in the top 10 in April. We gotta turn this fucking thing around
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And Peyton was first overall, but nobody was calling him a generational talent.
Peyton wasn't considered a generational talent?!? Are you kidding?
He would have been the #1 overall pick if he had come out the year before as a junior! He was the highest regarded QB prospect since Elway.
Then how did a lot of people see Ryan Leaf as the #1 pick? Was he generational too?
This. A top ten pick QB is so bad that the team gets the first pick in his second year. Hello Trevor Lawrence. I usually am on the pulpit about QBs get way too much blame or credit, but a good QB doesn't finish with his team getting the number 1 pick.
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In comment 14948578 Milton said:
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And Peyton was first overall, but nobody was calling him a generational talent.
Peyton wasn't considered a generational talent?!? Are you kidding?
He would have been the #1 overall pick if he had come out the year before as a junior! He was the highest regarded QB prospect since Elway.
Then how did a lot of people see Ryan Leaf as the #1 pick? Was he generational too?
The idea that Leaf could be the #1 pick was a negotiating tactic by the Colts. Also from nonsense-spewing "analysts" that wanted to make names for themselves by being contrarian.
said same above
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In comment 14948814 sb from NYT Forum said:
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In comment 14948578 Milton said:
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And Peyton was first overall, but nobody was calling him a generational talent.
Peyton wasn't considered a generational talent?!? Are you kidding?
He would have been the #1 overall pick if he had come out the year before as a junior! He was the highest regarded QB prospect since Elway.
Then how did a lot of people see Ryan Leaf as the #1 pick? Was he generational too?
The idea that Leaf could be the #1 pick was a negotiating tactic by the Colts. Also from nonsense-spewing "analysts" that wanted to make names for themselves by being contrarian.
Yeah, not so much. While the Colts favored Manning by the time the draft was near, that doesn't mean San Diego or a lot of other football experts didn't see Leaf as the better choice with his strong arm.
The real question is what happened to Jones?
If Lawrence would've been able to come out into the 2020 draft, Burrow would've been the #2 overall pick.
You'd have to go back to Andrew Luck (MAYBE) to find a guy that would be drafted ahead of Lawrence in ANY NFL draft. And if you think Lawrence would go ahead of Luck, which is a possibility, then you'd have to go all the way back to the 1998 NFL Draft, where Peyton Manning was drafted #1 overall.
So put it this way...if you recreated a draft with all the players from the last 22 years in a draft pool, not knowing their NFL futures, it's highly likely Lawrence would be drafted no later than #3 overall.
You should take Lawrence at trade Jones.
Has a rocket arm
Is accurate
Has wheels (as shown against OSU)
And is a really nice kid off the field.
He’s probably the best QB prospect I’ve seen in my lifetime. (I am 37 now and didn’t see Elway)
Perhaps Lawrence will prove to be that level of player. Right now, I think the projection is a bit much. Dabo's college system is up for debate in terms of accurate pro projection. He's certainly the best of the QB prospects teed up for the NFL now, and I think he's a better prospect than Watson, perhaps slightly ahead of Burrow in overall grade. But, Burrow's historic 2019 season shouldn't be discounted, it was very special.
Would I draft him and trade Jones? I would lean yes, but the trade booty to move down would appeal greatly to me.
I'm not sure where all this Lawrence can't play in NY stuff is coming from though. He seems to have confidence, a passion for the game to put in the work. Worth investigating the trade market but in the end seems like it would be a mistake to pass up a potential MVP at QB when you are sitting with the worst record in the league.
It has to be viewed through the lens of the team and the season as a whole.
Perhaps Lawrence will prove to be that level of player. Right now, I think the projection is a bit much. Dabo's college system is up for debate in terms of accurate pro projection. He's certainly the best of the QB prospects teed up for the NFL now, and I think he's a better prospect than Watson, perhaps slightly ahead of Burrow in overall grade. But, Burrow's historic 2019 season shouldn't be discounted, it was very special.
Would I draft him and trade Jones? I would lean yes, but the trade booty to move down would appeal greatly to me.
Luck's problem was he took a lot of hits from a poor OL. Those hits added up and shorten his career.
Other than that Luck lived up to his status. Coming out of college I would take Luck over Lawrence. You would have to go back to P. Manning as the only QB that I would choose over Luck.
One QB in 25 years, that's generational.
If Jones undoubtedly has a bright future, you trade the pick for a boatload of picks or picks plus top young players...
As great a prospect as Sunshine is, has he had undoubtedly shown himself to have a bright NFL future? The answer is no, not at the NFL level.
If the Giants lost Barkley or Slayton for any amount of time, the offense immediately becomes a threat for league worst. If the Giants lost Bradberry or Lawrence for any amount time, the defense does as well.
Add in Covid, first year/first time head coach, defensive coordinator who led the league’s worst defense last year, and new systems on both sides. The Giants could be plenty bad and it not remotely be on Jones.