Charley Conerly Photo Question

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I've tried to link to the February, 2020 comments which contain the photo. It is the 1952 Conerly photo in this link.
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to help you out with this.

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that the Giants wore in 1952 and previous years.

The other three are wearing a newer style.

I believe that really is Gifford. I checked NYG rosters for the late 40s and early 50s, and I think he is the only #16 who looks remotely like that. I think the photo makes all the players look a bit different with them staring down like that.

I'm wondering if #23 could be Benners. He didn't play with NYG very long but it sort of looks like him and that would be his rookie year as well.

wore #16.

at Ole Miss.

PFR does not show a number 23 playing for the Giants in '52 or any year in the '50s.

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I take #31 to be Eddie Price.

You can see the 3 is not the same style as in the 23 in the photo at issue.


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In comment 14948730 carpoon said:

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wore #16.

Yup, except in this photo, #16 doesn’t look anything like Gifford. So, we’re talking 1951 or earlier

In comment 14948682 TRDILLON said:

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I've tried to link to the February, 2020 comments which contain the photo. It is the 1952 Conerly photo in this link. Link - ( New Window )

The photo in that link is from the 1952 training camp. #42 is Conerly and #16 is Gifford. I've been unable to identify the other two players. Either they changed numbers for the regular season or were released.

as previously stated my friend, that #16 photo doesn’t even come close to what Frank looked like.

Thanks Larry. That was actually my surmise -- that this was a practice camp photo, which would explain the different uniform types. I wondered if the kid in the photo was Fred Benners from SMU. He was a rookie like Gifford in 1952 but didn't last long in the NFL. He wore a different number (#33, I think) for the regular season, but if this is a training camp pic, then maybe he wore something different. At least this is an offensive backfield number, and he was a QB. The other guy with a receding hairline looks eerily familiar but I can't really place him. Can I ask -- how do you know this is from 1952? Thanks.

By the way, I should have added that Benners is pictured on a 1952 Bowman FB card, so you can see the resemblance.

He wore #47 both in college and for the Giants.

The drawing that appears on his rookie card, which is on his wiki page, is taken from a photo that appeared on the cover of Sport Life magazine (ebay photo link).

I didn't see a resemblance myself from the drawing. With the benefit of the cover photo, there's no doubt: he is not the #23 in the photo at issue.

The two unidentified players could be from another team. Giants were based in Minnesota for training camp in 1952 and toured the upper Midwest, playing exhibition games against other teams.


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In comment 14948861 Big Blue '56 said:

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as previously stated my friend, that #16 photo doesn’t even come close to what Frank looked like.

If we're ruling out Gifford, then Jim Ostendarp wore #16 in 1950 & 1951. I have no idea what he looks like though.

In comment 14949271 truebluelarry said:

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In comment 14948861 Big Blue '56 said: Quote: as previously stated my friend, that #16 photo doesn’t even come close to what Frank looked like. If we're ruling out Gifford, then Jim Ostendarp wore #16 in 1950 & 1951. I have no idea what he looks like though.

Whoever he is, that’s probably him. Larry, when you get a chance, pull up a bunch of 1952 Gifford photos. You’ll see that guy isn’t even close

but I also agree it's not Gifford (or John Atwood, who was #16 for NYG in 1948.)

So what do we have?

Conerly wearing what looks like an Ole Miss jersey.

A player wearing #23, which is not a number the Giants issued to any roster player in any year Conerly would have been young enough to match the photo.

A player wearing #16, who does not photo match any Giants' roster player from the pertinent time frame.

All three players are wearing uniforms that do not match any of the others.

Plus a fourth player, whose uniform is almost entirely obscured.

Good luck.


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Still not convinced it can't be Gifford. Do this -- stand up straight, lower your chin as far down as you can, look at your feet, then reach out with your phone and take a selfie. I guarantee it won't look like you. But it will be you.

that #16 was Gifford. But I took another close look when truebluelarry accepted that it might not be him.

There's a specific area of the brain devoted to facial recognition. When I took that close look, it clicked: BB'56 was right; that is not Frank Gifford's face.

Which really opens up the circumstances in which this photo could have been taken, given that Conerly is not wearing an NYG jersey (I don't think).

Pull up any and all photos you can find from 1952 on Gifford. You will see they are miles away from what he looks like in that “huddle” picture.

In comment 14949434 Big Blue '56 said:

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Pull up any and all photos you can find from 1952 on Gifford. You will see they are miles away from what he looks like in that “huddle” picture.

I'll dig around over the weekend and see what I come up with. Maybe I can find a photo of Ostendarp in a newspaper.

Those are Giants jerseys. The numbers on the front were very small from 1948-1953.

not sure how much of a help it is, but here you go (click the link, photo is too large for the forum):
https://i.imgur.com/ONrNaja.jpg
Giants at Washington 10/7/51

Ostendarp was a reserve RB and kick returner for the Giants for the full season in 1950. He was released midway through the 1951 season where he then went into coaching.

OK you facial recognition guys, what do you think?

Ostendarp #16 is in the second row far left.

https://i.imgur.com/e2v0909.jpg

Ostendarp was not in the 1951 team photo (must have been taken after his release).

are available in Google image.

He is not the #16 in the photo of four players at issue.

The answer to the puzzle, I'd wager, is that the photo we are trying to figure out shows Conerly, in his identifiable Ole Miss jersey. with three other college players.

Maybe not Ole Miss players, because of the differences in the uniforms, but not Giants.

Conerly, as a war vet, was just short of 27 years old by the time he graduated Ole Miss, no kid.

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In comment 14950020 shyster said:

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are available in Google image. He is not the #16 in the photo of four players at issue. The answer to the puzzle, I'd wager, is that the photo we are trying to figure out shows Conerly, in his identifiable Ole Miss jersey. with three other college players. Maybe not Ole Miss players, because of the differences in the uniforms, but not Giants. Conerly, as a war vet, was just short of 27 years old by the time he graduated Ole Miss, no kid. ostendarp - ( New Window )

Same age as Staubach when he started playing for Dallas after his Navy Stint?

I've seen pictures of Conerly at Ole Miss, and he was wearing #41, not #42. So I think this is Conerly in his Giants uniform from the early 1950s. Also, he just looks older in this photo than when he was at Ole Miss. Remember he graduated there in 1945 or so.

Thanks to everyone who participated in trying to respond to my original post. I very much appreciate the effort. By the way, I just noticed (after all these years!) that Frank Gifford's 1952 Bowman Football rookie card is #16 in the set. You can't tell me that's a coincidence.

In comment 14950605 TRDILLON said:

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I've seen pictures of Conerly at Ole Miss, and he was wearing #41, not #42. So I think this is Conerly in his Giants uniform from the early 1950s. Also, he just looks older in this photo than when he was at Ole Miss. Remember he graduated there in 1945 or so.

I did notice a photo of Conerly at Ole Miss wearing #41, but there are many more of him wearing #42. I posted one such photo earlier in the thread.

Also, the Ole Miss jersey is distinctive for its dark coloring, number style and for the number sitting high on the chest.

Conerly graduated Ole Miss in 1948, not 1945. His wiki page mentions that he batted .468 for the Ole Miss baseball team in spring '48. And fall '48 was his first season in the NFL.

There's no doubt Gifford wore #16 as a rookie in '52. I mentioned that I tried to convince myself that it was he in the photo, because it would be the most obvious explanation for Conerly's having a number 16 standing next to him.

But it simply isn't Gifford. In addition to the lack of resemblance, the player is wearing what looks to be a beat up, hand-me-down school jersey. And it's not a USC jersey, I checked.

Number 23 is another problem for the theory of the NYG setting, because there was no NYG player of that number and because there are photos available for anyone who should have been in an NYG backfield group photo at that time. And number 23 is not a match.

Thank you for bringing up an interesting question.

(And yes, BB'56, Conerly was just about the same age as Staubach for his NFL debut.)