Took an antibody test last week because I've been exposed literally hundreds if not a thousand or more times through my job at a retail wine and spirits store in an Orthodox Jewish community.
I've taken modest precautions for most of this time - wearing a mask at work, washing my hands 5 or more times during my 6-8 hour work shifts, and avoiding bringing my hands to my face at all times that I am conscious of them.
I don't wear gloves at all since I figure I can carry the virus in a water droplet from a wine bottle touched (or coughed on) by a customer to my face just as easily on a glove as on my bare skin...
I am reasonably knowledgeable about germs, microbes, viruses, disease spread as well as aseptic technique... I've taken college level undergrad or grad level courses in viruses and microbiology both and did well in those courses...
I dont have antibodies, and I've never had any sign of infection of the virus, none whatsoever.
So how easily is this bug transmitted, really?
Later I will go into some historical comparison between the current Covid-19 pandemic and the 1918 H1N1 malaise... So far this current pandemic is honestly weak sauce compared to that one... So far.
That pandemic killed anywhere from 10% to 30% of the world's population, in a world where far fewer people were 65+ years old, the primary mortality target of this current pandemic. I'd throw out the wild guess that we will have a vaccine against Covid-19 well before it reaches the staggering proportion of the 1918 Spanish flu.
Any thoughts appreciated, but let's keep this wholly apolitical, please. Comments from MDs or other healthcare pros especially appreciated in advance.
Studies of this virus have shown it to be INCREDIBLY contagious, EXTREMELY easy to contract. It's a huge outlier in that respect. However, not everybody who contracts the virus gets sick, not everyone who gets sick has severe symptoms. A couple of my 20-something co-workers have had it and had little more than a headache and a low-grade fever. People of all ages and physical conditions have gotten COVID-19 and died, but some populations are clearly more vulnerable than others, and some people in vulnerable groups have recovered.
Regarding actually catching the thing, reasonable precautions can inhibit spread: mask, physical distancing, good hygiene and hand-washing. Places where these things don't happen are prone to mass outbreaks with rapid spread. We know the list: Nursing homes, prisons, bars. Retail actually hasn't been linked to that kind of outbreak as far as I know, probably because it's easier to keep a distance from people in a store than a bar.
Exactly. If I've been around 100s of people with or at least closely exposed to people with the illness, and I still haven't even been "exposed" to a significant enough titer to have contracted the illness or to acquire antibodies just how easily is this virus spread?
That is my question, or perhaps my conundrum.
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So there’s a 99% chance that has not been exposed.
Exactly. If I've been around 100s of people with or at least closely exposed to people with the illness, and I still haven't even been "exposed" to a significant enough titer to have contracted the illness or to acquire antibodies just how easily is this virus spread?
That is my question, or perhaps my conundrum.
Because it is extremely transmissible. Having said that, there’s a window where even those people with whom you have interacted who were infected are infectious themselves and maybe you’ve been fortunate enough, combined with whatever precautions you do take, to have escaped.
We don't even know how trustworthy the antibody tests are.
If you were only tested once, Lou, you could have received a false negative. I don't think that's out of the question.
It's also unclear as to whether or not the antibodies will create long-term immunity or if it's possible to become re-infected at some point in the future after recovery.
I have a good friend who caught the virus at his job and he's not the reckless type. He was taking all of the precautions that were recommended at the time. He got really sick and said it was miserable. Over 2 weeks he was in bed. He's not overweight, he has no preexisting conditions.. it leveled him and had him totally out of action.
On the other hand, you have countless folks who have had the virus and either had very mild symptoms or been entirely asymptomatic.
We also just don't know for sure how the virus can affect the body long-term or if there are residual effects. We've seen it in some cases with guys like Eduardo Rodriguez.
Certain blood types seem more susceptible, so not everyone is even necessarily the same level of vulnerable even amongst healthy people who aren't immunocompromised.
I think we are all learning a lot as we go here. It's a contentious topic because it's obviously interfering with everyone's lives at this point and has done serious damage to small businesses and the economy in general. A lot of people are hurting. A lot of people are angry and frustrated. Many have lost someone close to them or someone they know.
This entire year has been a huge struggle for millions and millions of people. So much so, that it almost feels surreal.
I think we all need to keep that in mind as we discuss this in the coming weeks/months.
I know 2 people who have died from the virus. I know 4 people who have been laid off/furloughed. 2020 is just a garbage year, probably equivalent to 1968 for those not born then.
I know 2 people who have died from the virus. I know 4 people who have been laid off/furloughed. 2020 is just a garbage year, probably equivalent to 1968 for those not born then.
Yep. I mean, back in January, I got very sick. I was breaking out in rashes everywhere, I was extremely nauseous and didn't feel well for several days - my symptoms didn't totally match up, but who knows what I had or if I had it at some point.
We're really just learning a lot as we go here, and I think it's going to be a long time before we see anything resembling the world we saw before all of this started.
While that sucks and sounds grim, I do feel like the blueprint for containing it is pretty clear at this point.
I live in NY and feel like as long as I mask up in stores/public places, I'm going to probably be fine. It's not hard to be reasonably responsible here and a mask is a small sacrifice to make to respect the health of the people around me.
If I'm outdoors and no one is within like 20 feet of me, I don't necessarily feel like I need to cover my face.
To me, the basics are really easy and just common sense at this point. It's hard when we have so many people buying into ridiculous theories, believing wearing a mask will "infect them" and make them sick, etc.
The more we all get on the same page, the more effective we are in containing and stifling the spread.
That's the problem - this isn't always the case.
The friend of mine that I mentioned in one of my last two posts, he fits that criteria. He plays in a hockey league, he's not overweight, he's active, healthy, no pre-existing conditions and this thing knocked him on his ass.
that number is currently 50% in Florida AND STILL HAPPENING
so if what Cuomo did was criminal what do you say about DiSantis ?
This is why we let our son go back to work at a Binghamton hospital. Local hospitals have ZERO cases of employees coming down with CoVid while the local defense contractor I work at has had several.
Dude, I don't know who told you this but all three local hospitals have had entire departments infected, dozens of employees. Source:I work in one of those local hospitals
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This is why we let our son go back to work at a Binghamton hospital. Local hospitals have ZERO cases of employees coming down with CoVid while the local defense contractor I work at has had several.
Dude, I don't know who told you this but all three local hospitals have had entire departments infected, dozens of employees. Source:I work in one of those local hospitals
Frankly, I am nowhere near Binghamton, but a report of "zero infections in any of 3 local hospitals" was very, very different from what I have heard of the medical facilities near where I work and live in Rockland county NY and Bergen county NJ respectively.
Also radically different from what my doctor partner in Israel has told me, even though Israel's per capita cases and deaths have been far far lower than NY's or NJ's.
Still haven't spoken with an old buddy who's a doc in internal medicine at MT Sainai in NYC.
Didn't want to disturb him, honestly. My doctor partner in IL is swamped with work...
that number is currently 50% in Florida AND STILL HAPPENING
so if what Cuomo did was criminal what do you say about DiSantis ?
You always have to find a way to wedge in your agenda to every discussion.
Cuomo forced the nursing homes to take COVID patients discharged from hospitals. By law. forced.
Florida has approx 3000 nursing home deaths (patients and employees)
NY had 5800 nursing home deaths (patients only) by May, haven't seen a count since.
Florida is bigger than NY.
WTF are you talking about?
FL has under 9,000 deaths, NY has over 32,000 and again, Florida is bigger.
and what lessons did people learn from NY?
Don't force nursing homes to take COVID patients? No shit. No one thought that made sense except maybe one person the media and fanboys fawn over.
NY was an unmitigated disaster.
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of early preparation and learning from New York's successes and mistakes on handling the virus. The fact that Florida's numbers are even approaching New York's is shameful.
WTF are you talking about?
FL has under 9,000 deaths, NY has over 32,000 and again, Florida is bigger.
and what lessons did people learn from NY?
Don't force nursing homes to take COVID patients? No shit. No one thought that made sense except maybe one person the media and fanboys fawn over.
NY was an unmitigated disaster.
I was referring to the nursing home numbers you cited - everyone acknowledges that 5800 dead in NY is bad, but 3000 shouldn't be acceptable either.
And Florida has already surpassed NY in total cases. What do you think the reason is behind Florida having more cases than NY despite having more time to prepare for it?
My 30-year old cousin is a former competitive athlete and a surgeon at Bellevue Hospital. She contracted the virus on the job. At first her symptoms were mild, no big deal, and then five or six days into it, she winds up in a hospital bed on oxygen.
That is my question, or perhaps my conundrum.
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If your a Healthy person in general you shouldn't have mush problem. Good Gut Health, Healthy habits, exercise, get in Nature, de-stress your body .Your terrain is healthy , your good.
That's the problem - this isn't always the case.
The friend of mine that I mentioned in one of my last two posts, he fits that criteria. He plays in a hockey league, he's not overweight, he's active, healthy, no pre-existing conditions and this thing knocked him on his ass.
What was he eating? How much was he sleeping a night? There is a lot of unknown factor here. I saw a Dr. the other stake her reputation that you would be hard pressed to find someone with adverse effects that is actively avoiding seed oils and trans fats. The problem is that is only 10 percent of the population. That's what he was he getting at with good gut health. I was a personal trainer for a while and it blew my mind what people thought was eating healthy.
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If your a Healthy person in general you shouldn't have mush problem. Good Gut Health, Healthy habits, exercise, get in Nature, de-stress your body .Your terrain is healthy , your good.
People need to stop passing along this kind of misinformation. It's this kind of advice that gets people killed. Some demographics have a higher probability than others, but there is no demographic that can claim no risk. And that includes professional athletes in their 20's.
My 30-year old cousin is a former competitive athlete and a surgeon at Bellevue Hospital. She contracted the virus on the job. At first her symptoms were mild, no big deal, and then five or six days into it, she winds up in a hospital bed on oxygen.
Find me someone that lives a holistically healthy lifestyle that was put on their ass. Just being a competitive athlete means diddly squat. Baseball players are notorious for their shitty diets. And people in the medical world aren't known to take the best care of their health on top of their extremely stressful, demanding jobs.
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In comment 14949411 eclipz928 said:
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of early preparation and learning from New York's successes and mistakes on handling the virus. The fact that Florida's numbers are even approaching New York's is shameful.
WTF are you talking about?
FL has under 9,000 deaths, NY has over 32,000 and again, Florida is bigger.
and what lessons did people learn from NY?
Don't force nursing homes to take COVID patients? No shit. No one thought that made sense except maybe one person the media and fanboys fawn over.
NY was an unmitigated disaster.
I was referring to the nursing home numbers you cited - everyone acknowledges that 5800 dead in NY is bad, but 3000 shouldn't be acceptable either.
And Florida has already surpassed NY in total cases. What do you think the reason is behind Florida having more cases than NY despite having more time to prepare for it?
Florida has a higher population than NY. You can’t talk about population density with NYC and then ignore it everywhere else. While Florida has no city like NYC, New York State’s next biggest city is Buffalo with about 250k.
Florida has Jacksonville, Miami, Tampa, Orlando, St. Petersburg, Hialeah. Like NYC, many of those areas are also transient. South Florida has Broward, Dade, and Palm Beach counties which are all pretty largely populated. All are still shut down largely and on mask mandates.
The virus is blowing through everywhere. The important thing is to protect the vulnerable. The fact that Florida, with its elderly population so high, has 30% of the deaths as NY is testament to that
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In comment 14949369 chiro56 said:
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If your a Healthy person in general you shouldn't have mush problem. Good Gut Health, Healthy habits, exercise, get in Nature, de-stress your body .Your terrain is healthy , your good.
That's the problem - this isn't always the case.
The friend of mine that I mentioned in one of my last two posts, he fits that criteria. He plays in a hockey league, he's not overweight, he's active, healthy, no pre-existing conditions and this thing knocked him on his ass.
What was he eating? How much was he sleeping a night? There is a lot of unknown factor here. I saw a Dr. the other stake her reputation that you would be hard pressed to find someone with adverse effects that is actively avoiding seed oils and trans fats. The problem is that is only 10 percent of the population. That's what he was he getting at with good gut health. I was a personal trainer for a while and it blew my mind what people thought was eating healthy.
I don't think there's nearly enough evidence to support any theory on the way diet and sleep affect this virus.
Sure, you can hypothesize and use common sense - I'm sure someone with superb sleeping habits and a healthy diet will generally be healthier and their immune system should theoretically be stronger, but stuff like this varies so much from person to person.
I don't have a detailed log of what my friend was eating throughout each day, but I know he doesn't eat fast food and his diet is relatively healthy.
Do you think Freddie Freeman is unhealthy?
He said he thought this was going to kill him when he had it. He was literally praying for it not to take his life. He was petrified. His fever nearly hit 105. The guy is 30 years old.
I don't know how many hours Freddie sleeps each night and I don't have a log of his meals, but I'm pretty sure you don't become one of the best hitters in baseball with an athletic physique if you're not sleeping and eating garbage.
Find me someone that lives a holistically healthy lifestyle that was put on their ass. Just being a competitive athlete means diddly squat.
People need to stop talking like they know what they're talking about when scientists and researchers are still learning about the virus. It's dangerous and irresponsible. People might mistake you for someone who is informed.
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This is why we let our son go back to work at a Binghamton hospital. Local hospitals have ZERO cases of employees coming down with CoVid while the local defense contractor I work at has had several.
Dude, I don't know who told you this but all three local hospitals have had entire departments infected, dozens of employees. Source:I work in one of those local hospitals
If you know something I don't, it's important you share that information. I don't want to be unnecessarily putting my family at risk.
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Find me someone that lives a holistically healthy lifestyle that was put on their ass. Just being a competitive athlete means diddly squat.
How exactly am I supposed to find you that person? I'm not conducting clinical trials on the virus. I haven't interviewed hundreds or thousands who were hospitalized and asked them about their eating habits.
People need to stop talking like they know what they're talking about when scientists and researchers are still learning about the virus. It's dangerous and irresponsible. People might mistake you for someone who is informed.
He's been pretending to be informed on this since March.
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In comment 14948921 x meadowlander said:
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This is why we let our son go back to work at a Binghamton hospital. Local hospitals have ZERO cases of employees coming down with CoVid while the local defense contractor I work at has had several.
Dude, I don't know who told you this but all three local hospitals have had entire departments infected, dozens of employees. Source:I work in one of those local hospitals
Frankly, I am nowhere near Binghamton, but a report of "zero infections in any of 3 local hospitals" was very, very different from what I have heard of the medical facilities near where I work and live in Rockland county NY and Bergen county NJ respectively.
Also radically different from what my doctor partner in Israel has told me, even though Israel's per capita cases and deaths have been far far lower than NY's or NJ's.
Still haven't spoken with an old buddy who's a doc in internal medicine at MT Sainai in NYC.
Didn't want to disturb him, honestly. My doctor partner in IL is swamped with work...
Broome County is surrounded by low-CoVid counties. We have higher numbers, larger population but also the confluence of 3 interstates, distribution centers, etc... Still, our numbers are low.
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If I've been around 100s of people with or at least closely exposed to people with the illness, and I still haven't even been "exposed" to a significant enough titer to have contracted the illness or to acquire antibodies just how easily is this virus spread?
That is my question, or perhaps my conundrum.
It's been answered several times already if you were paying attention. The virus spreads very easily among a large percentage of the population, but there is also a significant percentage of people who are unlikely to contract the virus despite repeated exposure. Just as not everyone who gets the virus will experience harsh symptoms, not everyone is equally likely to get the virus on contact. This is true of all viruses I believe. So what's specific to you, isn't useful for drawing conclusions about the general population. That's why clinical trials involve hundreds and thousands of people and not just a handful. A small sample set can be dangerously misleading.
I am not sure exactly what "get the virus" means in this context. If it means become infected and sick then yeah maybe that's correct. But, if you're around the virus and it enters into your circulation (or respiratory system), then you're almost guaranteed to make antibodies against it, regardless of whether or not you become infectious.
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In comment 14949287 BlueLou'sBack said:
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If I've been around 100s of people with or at least closely exposed to people with the illness, and I still haven't even been "exposed" to a significant enough titer to have contracted the illness or to acquire antibodies just how easily is this virus spread?
That is my question, or perhaps my conundrum.
It's been answered several times already if you were paying attention. The virus spreads very easily among a large percentage of the population, but there is also a significant percentage of people who are unlikely to contract the virus despite repeated exposure. Just as not everyone who gets the virus will experience harsh symptoms, not everyone is equally likely to get the virus on contact. This is true of all viruses I believe. So what's specific to you, isn't useful for drawing conclusions about the general population. That's why clinical trials involve hundreds and thousands of people and not just a handful. A small sample set can be dangerously misleading.
I am not sure exactly what "get the virus" means in this context. If it means become infected and sick then yeah maybe that's correct. But, if you're around the virus and it enters into your circulation (or respiratory system), then you're almost guaranteed to make antibodies against it, regardless of whether or not you become infectious.
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In comment 14949369 chiro56 said:
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If your a Healthy person in general you shouldn't have mush problem. Good Gut Health, Healthy habits, exercise, get in Nature, de-stress your body .Your terrain is healthy , your good.
That's the problem - this isn't always the case.
The friend of mine that I mentioned in one of my last two posts, he fits that criteria. He plays in a hockey league, he's not overweight, he's active, healthy, no pre-existing conditions and this thing knocked him on his ass.
What was he eating? How much was he sleeping a night? There is a lot of unknown factor here. I saw a Dr. the other stake her reputation that you would be hard pressed to find someone with adverse effects that is actively avoiding seed oils and trans fats. The problem is that is only 10 percent of the population. That's what he was he getting at with good gut health. I was a personal trainer for a while and it blew my mind what people thought was eating healthy.
With that opinion, I would guess that there is not much of a reputation to stake.
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In comment 14948921 x meadowlander said:
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This is why we let our son go back to work at a Binghamton hospital. Local hospitals have ZERO cases of employees coming down with CoVid while the local defense contractor I work at has had several.
Dude, I don't know who told you this but all three local hospitals have had entire departments infected, dozens of employees. Source:I work in one of those local hospitals
If that's true, then they aren't letting employees know. We have access to the Lourdes CEO's weekly reports. They've had quarantines from exposure, but no employee cases. My neighbor works at General, same there, wife has friends at UHS/Wilson - nobody has told us anything about actual cases of hospital employees with CoVid. That's something that's been discussed as a positive for this region for some time.
If you know something I don't, it's important you share that information. I don't want to be unnecessarily putting my family at risk.
I can't recall exactly (it was probably someone's random fb post) but there was a photograph of a make shift display illustrating all of the hcw deaths due to COVID-19. It was not small.
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In comment 14949402 Giant Fan Dan said:
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In comment 14948921 x meadowlander said:
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This is why we let our son go back to work at a Binghamton hospital. Local hospitals have ZERO cases of employees coming down with CoVid while the local defense contractor I work at has had several.
Dude, I don't know who told you this but all three local hospitals have had entire departments infected, dozens of employees. Source:I work in one of those local hospitals
If that's true, then they aren't letting employees know. We have access to the Lourdes CEO's weekly reports. They've had quarantines from exposure, but no employee cases. My neighbor works at General, same there, wife has friends at UHS/Wilson - nobody has told us anything about actual cases of hospital employees with CoVid. That's something that's been discussed as a positive for this region for some time.
If you know something I don't, it's important you share that information. I don't want to be unnecessarily putting my family at risk.
I can't recall exactly (it was probably someone's random fb post) but there was a photograph of a make shift display illustrating all of the hcw deaths due to COVID-19. It was not small.
In April, when CoVid broke and case counts quickly rose, we pulled our son from the staff - college student, not a career pro - but by the time June rolled around, the situation stabilized and he went back. If any of his coworkers caught it, we'd know. Small hospital is like family (plus in Binghamton there's one degree of separation) hard to imagine we wouldn't be informed.
Putting two and two together isn't rocket science. It does make people feel very uncomfortable. Dated a nurse that said she worked for a hospital that had to fire a Dr. because he had the gall to tell his patients they needed to lose weight. Well that effects the customer satisfaction scores and we can't have that. Just another great tweak to our for profit health care.
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In comment 14949411 eclipz928 said:
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of early preparation and learning from New York's successes and mistakes on handling the virus. The fact that Florida's numbers are even approaching New York's is shameful.
WTF are you talking about?
FL has under 9,000 deaths, NY has over 32,000 and again, Florida is bigger.
and what lessons did people learn from NY?
Don't force nursing homes to take COVID patients? No shit. No one thought that made sense except maybe one person the media and fanboys fawn over.
NY was an unmitigated disaster.
I was referring to the nursing home numbers you cited - everyone acknowledges that 5800 dead in NY is bad, but 3000 shouldn't be acceptable either.
And Florida has already surpassed NY in total cases. What do you think the reason is behind Florida having more cases than NY despite having more time to prepare for it?
More time to prepare for sounds like a red herring. What would you have suggested be done differently without the benefit of 2020 hindsight?
When FL re-opened they had low numbers of cases, hospitalizations, and deaths. Follow the science people say, so they did (at the time).
They still have low number of deaths (relatively speaking) and at the end of the day, that's really how I view success.
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In comment 14949415 pjcas18 said:
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In comment 14949411 eclipz928 said:
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of early preparation and learning from New York's successes and mistakes on handling the virus. The fact that Florida's numbers are even approaching New York's is shameful.
WTF are you talking about?
FL has under 9,000 deaths, NY has over 32,000 and again, Florida is bigger.
and what lessons did people learn from NY?
Don't force nursing homes to take COVID patients? No shit. No one thought that made sense except maybe one person the media and fanboys fawn over.
NY was an unmitigated disaster.
I was referring to the nursing home numbers you cited - everyone acknowledges that 5800 dead in NY is bad, but 3000 shouldn't be acceptable either.
And Florida has already surpassed NY in total cases. What do you think the reason is behind Florida having more cases than NY despite having more time to prepare for it?
More time to prepare for sounds like a red herring. What would you have suggested be done differently without the benefit of 2020 hindsight?
When FL re-opened they had low numbers of cases, hospitalizations, and deaths. Follow the science people say, so they did (at the time).
They still have low number of deaths (relatively speaking) and at the end of the day, that's really how I view success.
Holly Shit is the post for real?
They barely were on lockdown. They let churches stay open because they were “essential”.
They also were caught fucking with the data after the fired their SAS Data Analytics person.
If their was a playbook for what not do they wrote it.
They acted like it wasn’t going to happen to them and went about business as usual.
They are lucky that they have more hospitals than most states because I of their demographics.
It's 100 percent real.
How do you explain CA who had the strictest lockdown rules in the country?
Everything is open to second guessing, when nothing done was guaranteed to impact spread or for how long.
All people want to do is blame someone or monday morning quarterback everything.
There is very little - with any governor - IMO that is definitely tied to more cases, hospitalizations or deaths - other than one thing - an executive order to force nursing homes to take COVID patients. That is 100% directly tied to deaths without speculating or searching for ways to politicize this or just blame someone without facts or using 2020 hind sight.
And total cases that don't result in hospitalizations or deaths should not be a metric used to criticize or fear monger IMO. We are testing more, naturally that should result in more cases.
There have been dozens of articles like this from April on that go into more depth on what's been learned, especially the blood clotting problems that were not well understood until the virus got here (I believe Bill has had a lot of firsthand insight on that).
“We are well-positioned for a second wave,” Patel said. “We know so much more.”
Doctors like Patel now have:
*A clearer grasp of the disease’s side effects, like blood clotting and kidney failure
*A better understanding of how to help patients struggling to breathe
*More information on which drugs work for which kinds of patients.
They also have acquired new tools to aid in the battle, including:
*Widespread testing
*Promising new treatments like convalescent plasma, antiviral drugs and steroids
“I think everybody is seeing that,” he said. “I think people are coming in sooner, there is better use of blood thinners, and a lot of small things are adding up.”
Even nuts-and-bolts issues, like how to re-organize hospital space to handle a surge of COVID-19 patients and secure personal protective equipment (PPE) for medical workers, are not the time-consuming, mad scrambles they were before.
“The hysteria of who’d take care of (hospital staff) is not there anymore,” said Dr. Andra Blomkalns, head of emergency medicine at Stanford Health Care, a California hospital affiliated with Stanford University. “We have an entire team whose only job is getting PPE.”
Special Report: As world approaches 10 million coronavirus cases, doctors see hope in new treatments - ( New Window )
When FL re-opened they had low numbers of cases, hospitalizations, and deaths. Follow the science people say, so they did (at the time).
They still have low number of deaths (relatively speaking) and at the end of the day, that's really how I view success.
6 month into the crisis Florida had their most deaths in one day from Covid .. YESTERDAY .
so from your view of success Florida is a failure
per 1m people California is:
22nd in total cases (FL's is 3rd highest and almost 2x CA)
28th in deaths (the early states are all highest on this list but FL's rate seems to mirror cases and is almost 2x CA)
13th in tests (FL has tested about 20% fewer per capita - so these #'s aren't skewed simply by more testing)
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/ - ( New Window )
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More time to prepare for sounds like a red herring. What would you have suggested be done differently without the benefit of 2020 hindsight?
When FL re-opened they had low numbers of cases, hospitalizations, and deaths. Follow the science people say, so they did (at the time).
They still have low number of deaths (relatively speaking) and at the end of the day, that's really how I view success.
6 month into the crisis Florida had their most deaths in one day from Covid .. YESTERDAY .
so from your view of success Florida is a failure
It's two parts right? You have a response part where you can prepare and try to mitigate severity/mortality, but you also have the dumbass part where it's harder to control the numbers that numbers that need hospitalization.
“We are well-positioned for a second wave,” Patel said. “We know so much more.”...
Notice how they don't say stop the surge or stop the spread, but prepared to deal with it.
If deaths continue to rise in FL then sure you can question their approach or you can ask if they've learned from elsewhere though the only thing NY did was the same thing everyone else did but like elsewhere they didn't do it when they had low numbers/no outbreak, they did it when they had an outbreak on their hands.
at the end of the day, I think deaths and hospitalizations are how it makes sense to view things from a critical nature. Not cases/surge.
We're already perilously low on healthcare staff at "normal" staffing levels (~5 beds per RN). We are now running out of travel nurses; those are critical to fill surges.
We simply don't have the staff.
That's the problem; the labor pool is shrinking as surges flare up in more areas (rather than in NYC), and some travel nurses are choosing to take their money and stay local.
The quote from the Northwell exec is basically my entire point in a statistic. They have halved their fatality rate in a few months. If they knew in March what is known now a lot less people would have died - as fewer people are now dying in other states when they surge. Comparing outcomes now vs. march is apples to oranges.
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...Nearly 30 doctors around the world, from New Orleans to London to Dubai, told Reuters they feel more prepared should cases surge again in the fall.
“We are well-positioned for a second wave,” Patel said. “We know so much more.”...
Notice how they don't say stop the surge or stop the spread, but prepared to deal with it.
If deaths continue to rise in FL then sure you can question their approach or you can ask if they've learned from elsewhere though the only thing NY did was the same thing everyone else did but like elsewhere they didn't do it when they had low numbers/no outbreak, they did it when they had an outbreak on their hands.
at the end of the day, I think deaths and hospitalizations are how it makes sense to view things from a critical nature. Not cases/surge.
Florida has the nick name of being “Gods Waiting Room” as my grandfather calls it, for a reason. Their age population is skewed older because so many people retire there.
I don’t have the numbers, but logic would make it easy to assume there are more hospitals and hospital beds in general because their demographics dictate it which probably gives them a leg up on other states who get over capacity.
Also who the hell knows if their death numbers are accurate. They were already caught once fudging their data, so business could go on as usual.
In comment 14949467 pjcas18 said:
More time to prepare for sounds like a red herring.
In comment 14949467 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
More time to prepare for sounds like a red herring.
I meant that in terms of what is controllable vs looking at results and saying "they learned nothing from NY" when yes they did - they didn't force nursing homes to take COVID patients - what did NY do that they should learn from that they didn't. Please be specific.