So says offensive line coach Marc Colombo, per Stapleton
So does that end the debate about the projected starting offensive line?
LT: Thomas
LG: Hernandez
C: Gates
RG: Zeilter
RT: Fleming
... and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the longer term vision of what the unit may look like in the Daniel Jones era.
Lemieux could be groomed to replace Zeitler, whose contract expires after the '21 season or could be released with a modest $2.5m cap hit after this season. Peart is raw, but an obvious choice to take over at RT next year or by necessity, compete for that spot this year.
Thomas/Hernandez/Gateas/Lemieux/Peart protecting Jones and leading for Barkley. All young players, all together as they hit their athletic primes. Could be the magic formula.
@ArtStapleton - (
New Window )
"But Moss has been the star of OTAs and early training camp, making the decision to get rid of him much harder."
Or Mr Mara asking sayin he didn't know jerrel jernigan could play!!
They haven't had any contact yet.
Ok. But they should really lose that.
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spoke that way of McKinney and Cam Brown during the April Draft.
Ok. But they should really lose that.
Why? It describes what Gates is doing in just a couple words. As a center you need to take control of that line. It is a perfectly acceptable way to describe someone.
I'd take it no questions asked and live with whatever we can do at RT, but it would be an even greater boon if Lemuiex could be an above average center and Gates is just as good at RT.
I know that's asking a lot for a rookie who never played the position but one can hope.
If Fleming doesn’t stick around, he will need to be replaced after 2020. Fleming may surprise everyone. It would be nice to give Peart another year to get ready.
it’s the language of the hard-working & insatiable
Link - ( New Window )
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That's not what he said according to the tweet.
I paraphrased the tweet for the thread subject, but explain how the context is different
Coach was speaking of the role the player had ("alpha male") after sliding into the center spot from another position (guard, say) during the course of play -- or that's how I understood it -- not how the player stood when measured against other center candidates. Didn't mean to be abrupt and may be all wet about what I thought was being said.
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In comment 14949749 Phil in LA said:
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spoke that way of McKinney and Cam Brown during the April Draft.
Ok. But they should really lose that.
Why? It describes what Gates is doing in just a couple words. As a center you need to take control of that line. It is a perfectly acceptable way to describe someone.
Ok, I will start using it more.
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In comment 14949707 Percy said:
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That's not what he said according to the tweet.
I paraphrased the tweet for the thread subject, but explain how the context is different
Coach was speaking of the role the player had ("alpha male") after sliding into the center spot from another position (guard, say) during the course of play -- or that's how I understood it -- not how the player stood when measured against other center candidates. Didn't mean to be abrupt and may be all wet about what I thought was being said.
After reading more of what's online about this, i now think I was wrong (probably because the Stapleton tweet talks about
"sliding" into the center position). What Colombo said, as reported by others, flat out characterized Gates as an "alpha male" and the kind of guy you want at center, a position he also said Gates has quickly taken to playing well.
Wasn't very good last year, and while solid at times, has never been the player that a lot of Giants fans thought he was coming here.
Hopefully injuries were why his play dropped off last year and he has a bounce back season.
Zeitler likely bounces back to be ok at guard. I'm more concerned with Hernandez. He took a huge step back last year and he needs to be the best lineman on this team until Thomas is up to speed hopefully. His season last year is still puzzling
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should be replaced ... seriously?
Wasn't very good last year, and while solid at times, has never been the player that a lot of Giants fans thought he was coming here.
Hopefully injuries were why his play dropped off last year and he has a bounce back season.
Zeitler likely bounces back to be ok at guard. I'm more concerned with Hernandez. He took a huge step back last year and he needs to be the best lineman on this team until Thomas is up to speed hopefully. His season last year is still puzzling
The 2016-18 version of Zeitler is better than a lot of Giants fans have seen since Snee, it’s right there on film. The dude was a killer on the Bengals.
I don’t understand the statement that he was never what some fans thought he would be, no one was expecting him to take another step developmentally as a 29 year old, most fans were expecting him to be exactly what he has put on film since being a first rounder out of Wisconsin.
"But Moss has been the star of OTAs and early training camp, making the decision to get rid of him much harder."
Or Mr Mara asking sayin he didn't know jerrel jernigan could play!!
They haven't had any contact yet.
I agree, they were always trying to pump Sinorice up to trade him. The minute the 4th preseason game came around he was on the end of the bench. Lets wait until the real bullets start flying
If Fleming doesn’t stick around, he will need to be replaced after 2020. Fleming may surprise everyone. It would be nice to give Peart another year to get ready.
This makes sense.
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In comment 14949679 Spider56 said:
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should be replaced ... seriously?
Wasn't very good last year, and while solid at times, has never been the player that a lot of Giants fans thought he was coming here.
Hopefully injuries were why his play dropped off last year and he has a bounce back season.
Zeitler likely bounces back to be ok at guard. I'm more concerned with Hernandez. He took a huge step back last year and he needs to be the best lineman on this team until Thomas is up to speed hopefully. His season last year is still puzzling
The 2016-18 version of Zeitler is better than a lot of Giants fans have seen since Snee, it’s right there on film. The dude was a killer on the Bengals.
I don’t understand the statement that he was never what some fans thought he would be, no one was expecting him to take another step developmentally as a 29 year old, most fans were expecting him to be exactly what he has put on film since being a first rounder out of Wisconsin.
Agree. Zeitler is a solid, near pro bowl caliber guard who is excellent in pass protection and solid in the run game. Yes he carries a low double digit salary but that is easily carried when solder is off the team after next year or maybe even after this year. Why are some so eager to get rid of this guy when quality offensive lineman have been scarce on our team for the last eight years?
The resulting howlers like: "Gettlemen puts a line together without 5 number 1 picks" are priceless. He has spent a top 5 pick, traded an all-pro receiver to get, in another howler, our "near all-pro guard" and spent a truckload of dough on a left tackle who opted out of this season. We still don't know what, if anything, ol' Dave has put together.
But keep smiling that vacant smile and jerking off to camp happy talk.
That post reminds me of the Vince McMahon bit when he reveals himself as the “Greater Power”. “You all bought it, hook, line and sinker. Even my family bought it!!!”
I need more coffee.
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What guy talks like that?
it’s the language of the hard-working & insatiable Link - ( New Window )
This was great!
Indeed, it is retarded to project his release after the 2020 season unless his play drops off a cliff. Especially if 2021 is the last year of his contract. If Gates starts at OC this year, might Zeitler make the line calls?
I guess I need to read the link from Columbo...
Has Covid-19 affected your memory?
Victor Cruz was a pretty good FA...
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should be replaced ... seriously?
Wasn't very good last year, and while solid at times, has never been the player that a lot of Giants fans thought he was coming here.
Hopefully injuries were why his play dropped off last year and he has a bounce back season.
Zeitler likely bounces back to be ok at guard. I'm more concerned with Hernandez. He took a huge step back last year and he needs to be the best lineman on this team until Thomas is up to speed hopefully. His season last year is still puzzling
Have to agree Mook. Zeitler was looked as a savior, to a team devoid of talent I get it. But I didn't think he was that good last year, although he was hurt so that is a factor. I really agree on Hernandez, thought he would get better but he regressed. Hope moves forward this year.
You expect Giants' coaches, front office, scouts or other players to chat blithely about players' shortcomings?
Seriously?
I think it is more than likely Zeitler will be replaced next year. He is 30, expensive and the injury factor does not tend to get better with more years imo. Of course they will have to have someone they think can step in.
The current line consists of a top 5 pick, a 2nd rounder, and a guard with the 5th highest cap cost at the position in the NFL. That doesn’t include the LT on the sideline who would be a top 5 cap hit.
The only 2 positions on the line not held by high resource players are major question marks. Gettleman is using plenty of resources on the line.
Um, what?!?
Wow. There are multiple things wrong with this sentence and it’s not more than a few words. Multiple highly valued resources were invested in the line and it continues to be moderately better than a train wreck, barring a major improvement this season.
Patti Traina and Jon Schmeelk both reported it this way.
As for people looking to dump Hernandez, maybe they should listen to Columbo talking about Will. Coach Columbo spoke about WH as though he's the veteran bedrock of his line moving forward. Sounds like Columbo loves WH. Didn't hear him say Boo about Zeitler.
The goal is to have turnover and change that is productive, and most importantly something that looks and feels to the coaches is the right group of guys by the end of the season. The good news is there is much better inherent talent in this group than seen in years. This past draft was a critical junction in fixing this god-awful team and maybe DG finally got it right.
They will not be good in September so don’t expect it. But maybe by Thanksgiving we will all start seeing a group of guys that looks the part.
1. it looks like he can be cut in year 3 with 0 dead money.
2. the most expensive year on paper is year 2 at $3.325m - which is almost identical to what the 2nd round RFA tender was this past offseason (Gates' likeliest contract next year). So the Giants essentially kept his salaries the same for the next 2 years while adding a risk free 3rd year and in return for giving up 1 more year of control Gates got some guaranteed money.
3. not sure if the initial reports were wrong or there are other incentives in the deal not listed, but the incentives seem to be linked to per game roster bonuses in year 3 and if he hits them it looks like his max salary would still end up under $3.5m. In terms of what was initially reported I think there's about $2m of missing "potentially worth up to" (incentives) so perhaps they are unlikely to be earned pro bowl appearances or something like that?
Net-net, Nick Gates may be an alpha, but I'm not so sure his agent can say the same (unless of course there was some extenuating circumstance where Gates needed the cash right now). He guaranteed himself $3m in a worst case scenario but delayed hitting the open market by 2 years. And it just seems unlikely there was any scenario where the Giants wouldn't have tendered him at a similar level next offseason.
Nick Gates Contract Details - ( New Window )
I think you’re right that the 2M+ reported initially and not listed here are NLTBE in year 3, which get applied to the 2023 cap if he hits them. Hopefully he does. The way this is laid out is a really good deal for the Giants.
His performance last season was disappointing after a solid rookie season but I don't understand why so many are down on him already.
Hernandez has been coached by arguably the worst OL coach in football during his first two seasons in the league. He also was playing in the middle of Solder and Halapio/Pulley. Their poor play likely had an affect on Hernandez's performance.
This is a big year for Hernandez and I expect him to break out under coach Marc Colombo. For the first time in his brief career there is some real competition for Hernandez in Lemieux, Gates, and Murphy.
These same conditions (including coaching) existed his rookie year as well when he played markedly better. Hernandez let his game slip and it was on him. He needs to turn it around in year 3.
Hernandez and Zeitler have the capacity to be a very strong combination of guards, and a really strong center would connect that group together and even make things easier on the tackles because they could focus on their assignments and get more help from backs/TE's.
I like Gates as much as anyone but I would not hesitate to add someone like Justin Britt for a couple years if they determine him to be a significant upgrade (or if Gates wins the RT job).
If Gates is a solid OC for us that is a game-changer. I honestly don't think losing Solder hurts much so long as we don't have an injury.
I'd love for Peart to also get some playing time this year.
The resulting howlers like: "Gettlemen puts a line together without 5 number 1 picks" are priceless. He has spent a top 5 pick, traded an all-pro receiver to get, in another howler, our "near all-pro guard" and spent a truckload of dough on a left tackle who opted out of this season. We still don't know what, if anything, ol' Dave has put together.
But keep smiling that vacant smile and jerking off to camp happy talk.
Ha ha! Hello-anyone home? Olivier vernon was traded for zeitler not Odell. 3.5 sacks last year for Vernon who carried an $18 million cap hit. guess that's your type of asset allocation. Here's a quarter-buy a clue.