"Nick Gates in an Alpha Male at Center"

In comment 14949682 Fred-in-Florida said:

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and it'd be nice if we were to be able to hit on a free agent, and not for the short term either. Remind me who the last one was.

Has Covid-19 affected your memory?

Victor Cruz was a pretty good FA...

In comment 14949865 MookGiants said:

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In comment 14949679 Spider56 said: Quote: should be replaced ... seriously? Wasn't very good last year, and while solid at times, has never been the player that a lot of Giants fans thought he was coming here. Hopefully injuries were why his play dropped off last year and he has a bounce back season. Zeitler likely bounces back to be ok at guard. I'm more concerned with Hernandez. He took a huge step back last year and he needs to be the best lineman on this team until Thomas is up to speed hopefully. His season last year is still puzzling

Have to agree Mook. Zeitler was looked as a savior, to a team devoid of talent I get it. But I didn't think he was that good last year, although he was hurt so that is a factor. I really agree on Hernandez, thought he would get better but he regressed. Hope moves forward this year.

In comment 14949684 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:

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Anyone from the Giants call Peart “raw”. I suspect he will have a significant role by mid-season.

You expect Giants' coaches, front office, scouts or other players to chat blithely about players' shortcomings?

Seriously?

if Hunter had heavy input as the run game coordinator which contributed to the overall performance. Let's see how Garrer/Columbo do with Hernandez and others.

I think it is more than likely Zeitler will be replaced next year. He is 30, expensive and the injury factor does not tend to get better with more years imo. Of course they will have to have someone they think can step in.

In comment 14949922 SirYesSir said:

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the guy is pretty good at putting together a line, and not needing 5 first round picks to do it.

The current line consists of a top 5 pick, a 2nd rounder, and a guard with the 5th highest cap cost at the position in the NFL. That doesn’t include the LT on the sideline who would be a top 5 cap hit.

The only 2 positions on the line not held by high resource players are major question marks. Gettleman is using plenty of resources on the line.

Doesn’t improve on last season, he might be the one replaced by Lemieux.

In comment 14949922 SirYesSir said:

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the guy is pretty good at putting together a line, and not needing 5 first round picks to do it.

Um, what?!?

In comment 14949922 SirYesSir said:

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the guy is pretty good at putting together a line, and not needing 5 first round picks to do it.

Wow. There are multiple things wrong with this sentence and it’s not more than a few words. Multiple highly valued resources were invested in the line and it continues to be moderately better than a train wreck, barring a major improvement this season.

that all of Solder's pro rated (or perhaps I should say guaranteed?) money due in 2020 has been paid or, or will be, and is not deferred. His 2020 annual base salary of about 10 mil was deferred, but it is not guaranteed, nor is his 2021 base salary that would be deferred to 2022 under the current opt out rules. So if the Giants cut Solder next year, which has been speculated as highly likely pending Thomas's play at LT this year and Peart's development, they'd remain on the hook for about 6-7 mil of guaranteed dough and zero towards his (what is now) his 2021 and 2022 base salaries.

Patti Traina and Jon Schmeelk both reported it this way.

As for people looking to dump Hernandez, maybe they should listen to Columbo talking about Will. Coach Columbo spoke about WH as though he's the veteran bedrock of his line moving forward. Sounds like Columbo loves WH. Didn't hear him say Boo about Zeitler.

There is clearly going to be a lot of changes and maybe even some surprises as starters and backups at their respective positions during the year.

The goal is to have turnover and change that is productive, and most importantly something that looks and feels to the coaches is the right group of guys by the end of the season. The good news is there is much better inherent talent in this group than seen in years. This past draft was a critical junction in fixing this god-awful team and maybe DG finally got it right.

They will not be good in September so don’t expect it. But maybe by Thanksgiving we will all start seeing a group of guys that looks the part.

overthecap has posted more contract details and a few things stand out:

1. it looks like he can be cut in year 3 with 0 dead money.

2. the most expensive year on paper is year 2 at $3.325m - which is almost identical to what the 2nd round RFA tender was this past offseason (Gates' likeliest contract next year). So the Giants essentially kept his salaries the same for the next 2 years while adding a risk free 3rd year and in return for giving up 1 more year of control Gates got some guaranteed money.

3. not sure if the initial reports were wrong or there are other incentives in the deal not listed, but the incentives seem to be linked to per game roster bonuses in year 3 and if he hits them it looks like his max salary would still end up under $3.5m. In terms of what was initially reported I think there's about $2m of missing "potentially worth up to" (incentives) so perhaps they are unlikely to be earned pro bowl appearances or something like that?

Net-net, Nick Gates may be an alpha, but I'm not so sure his agent can say the same (unless of course there was some extenuating circumstance where Gates needed the cash right now). He guaranteed himself $3m in a worst case scenario but delayed hitting the open market by 2 years. And it just seems unlikely there was any scenario where the Giants wouldn't have tendered him at a similar level next offseason.
Nick Gates Contract Details - ( New Window )

In the contract notes (not years grid) they label the bonus as a signing bonus and include it in the fully guaranteed portion — so presumably 500K would be applied to the third year of the deal and be dead money if he’s cut. Some of their math is a little off too, but they usually clean it up within a few days.

I think you’re right that the 2M+ reported initially and not listed here are NLTBE in year 3, which get applied to the 2023 cap if he hits them. Hopefully he does. The way this is laid out is a really good deal for the Giants.

now we just need to hope Gates can play C well. If he can that would be a huge boost to the entire offense.

He had crap to his right at C, and a massively underachieving Solder to his left. Line play is a team effort

In comment 14950477 PatersonPlank said:

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He had crap to his right at C, and a massively underachieving Solder to his left. Line play is a team effort

His performance last season was disappointing after a solid rookie season but I don't understand why so many are down on him already.

Hernandez has been coached by arguably the worst OL coach in football during his first two seasons in the league. He also was playing in the middle of Solder and Halapio/Pulley. Their poor play likely had an affect on Hernandez's performance.

This is a big year for Hernandez and I expect him to break out under coach Marc Colombo. For the first time in his brief career there is some real competition for Hernandez in Lemieux, Gates, and Murphy.

In comment 14950477 PatersonPlank said:

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He had crap to his right at C, and a massively underachieving Solder to his left. Line play is a team effort

These same conditions (including coaching) existed his rookie year as well when he played markedly better. Hernandez let his game slip and it was on him. He needs to turn it around in year 3.

I don't think it matters as much whether you build an OL inside out or outside in, but it has to be cumulatively strong somewhere. Tackles are harder to find than interior players, though obviously we are hoping the guys we found this year will do well they are still rookies.

Hernandez and Zeitler have the capacity to be a very strong combination of guards, and a really strong center would connect that group together and even make things easier on the tackles because they could focus on their assignments and get more help from backs/TE's.

I like Gates as much as anyone but I would not hesitate to add someone like Justin Britt for a couple years if they determine him to be a significant upgrade (or if Gates wins the RT job).

Thomas-Hernandez-Gates-Zeitler-Fleming

If Gates is a solid OC for us that is a game-changer. I honestly don't think losing Solder hurts much so long as we don't have an injury.

I'd love for Peart to also get some playing time this year.

In comment 14950031 HomerJones45 said:

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you've all learned nothing and are getting sucked in by the usual and customary camp happy talk- again. The resulting howlers like: "Gettlemen puts a line together without 5 number 1 picks" are priceless. He has spent a top 5 pick, traded an all-pro receiver to get, in another howler, our "near all-pro guard" and spent a truckload of dough on a left tackle who opted out of this season. We still don't know what, if anything, ol' Dave has put together. But keep smiling that vacant smile and jerking off to camp happy talk.

Ha ha! Hello-anyone home? Olivier vernon was traded for zeitler not Odell. 3.5 sacks last year for Vernon who carried an $18 million cap hit. guess that's your type of asset allocation. Here's a quarter-buy a clue.