I have a good source associated with the Giants Org. He was able to take in a practice. I asked him what his immediate takeaways were and what was different than what he’s seen before. Some quick points.
- Loves the pace of the practices. Said with the shortened offseason it would be easy for a coach to focus more on his core starters than Sorry about getting guys reps. Not Judge. He’s making use of every blade of grass afforded to him to get guys reps on the field.
- Lots of shifting guys in and out. WRs/TE lining up in different spot almost on a per snap bases. OL going from one group to another, tackles flip flopping.
- doesn’t know if it was the coaching staff’s doing but says a number of players have completely revamped their bodies. (We know about Jones) says he’s never seen Engram this jacked and it’s making a difference in blocking. Says he’s seeing guys heads knock back when Engram hits them now. Worked on his leverage.
- Biggest surprise? Matt Peart. Says many thought he’d be at least a year long project. He’s put on some serious muscle and might be the quickest OL out there. Says if it wasn’t for Fleming probably being the best OL he saw out there that he wouldn’t be surprised at all if Peart played sooner.
He was sending a message to the holdovers from the Fassel era who spent 03 dogging it in the training room once the season was out of hand.
It amazed me how many got that wrong.
Don't get me started...yes, it was and is amazing. It's like people forgot the 2003 season. literally half the team hung it up that year, including (likely, can't even remember) some NYG greats who shall remain nameless.
Coughlin was and is no dummy. Any NFL lifer knows the difference between injuries and guys playing through pain. Fans were just being stupid and argumentative back when it was fun for some people to bash Coughlin.
Funny now that there's a new sheriff in town how these young players with a lot to prove worked extra hard to get in shape for this camp. Maybe this happens in any other year, but it sure looks like the vast number of young NYG players all recognize it's put up or shut up time.
We're going to be better this year. There are too many talented players. Guys like Engram can impact a game and injury bad luck is just that, luck. We're due for the worm to turn.
I'm sure that is true and I also think it is a combination of that and covid. These guys didn't have all these practices. They didn't have to leave their homes. They didn't have to waste time driving to the facility. I'm imagine most of them had so much extra time and dedicated it to working out.
I really don't think he was asked to block 300 lb guys. Plus, his injuries always happened running routes and catching passes.
I can't agree with you on that point. First there are no pass rushing stars on the Giants and while Peart may look good against the Giants defense he could look really bad against the Steelers. And that leads to my second part. You don't want Jones getting killed because you started someone less talented.
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Its part of the "Giants growing" process. He is part of the future, Fleming isn't.
I can't agree with you on that point. First there are no pass rushing stars on the Giants and while Peart may look good against the Giants defense he could look really bad against the Steelers. And that leads to my second part. You don't want Jones getting killed because you started someone less talented.
I basically agree with you, which is why I said slightly worse. If he's much worse than no. However if its close then I assume the level of play is roughly the same, and yes I'd play him over a career backup. It has to be this way.
Not a surprise a veteran looks more ready than the rookies.
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Its part of the "Giants growing" process. He is part of the future, Fleming isn't.
I can't agree with you on that point. First there are no pass rushing stars on the Giants and while Peart may look good against the Giants defense he could look really bad against the Steelers. And that leads to my second part. You don't want Jones getting killed because you started someone less talented.
While I understand this thought process and have used it before, I'd go with Fleming. One, we need this offense to start off fast and right. If Fleming gives us a better chance to win then great. Plus, we need to give Jones and Barkely the best chance to succeed. The downside of starting Peart right away is that there will be a learning curve. It is one thing to go against the same teammates every day and something completely different to line up against someone you never did before. I wouldn't be opposed to letting Peart master his craft as long as possible in practice and let him come in as a 6th OL on certain offensive plays to get his feet wet. Let him earn it. So, if we start him and he struggles then he has to be replaced and that isn't going to help his confidence. It could retard his development.
I see improvement in a lot of areas but OL is still the key. I think they will be a solid unit but I am not confident in it.
+1
Probably best case scenario is if team isn’t gonna be playoff bound, start him mid season if ready and hopefully he is the 2021 RT
Engram. Heck a little more blocking, just to not be a liability, plus god forbid a healthy season, and we have a nice weapon. Doesn’t make all the tough questions but a match up problem u probably have to game plan for.
If those two pan out and DJ continues ascension, we may be a top WR from a very well rounded, explosive offense.
Defense, yeah. We probably will need to draft heavy there and nail a top free agent or two to be a top 15 D. But hope springs eternal
However, people continue to underrate Fleming. He was solid as a RT for the Patriots. Not nearly as good as a fill-in LT at Dallas. If Fleming can win the RT job, let him hold on to it as long as he can. If he looks good all year, see what it will take to sign him for another year.
Playing guys for the future when your team only has 12 wins in the last 3 years is a waste. Giants need as many wins as they can get this year.
Related to that, I would expect him to be better than Pulley. Gates is spending time at a new position and Thomas is a rookie.
If he is our best OL midyear or even in game 1, this would not be a good sign.
Nah I don't agree with that at all.
Judge has preached from day 1 everyone has a shot no matter if they're a top pick, or UDFA. The guys who show the most and play the best will play. If Fleming is the better player, he has to play ahead of Peart.
Judge can't preach one thing and do another. Plus it sends a bad message to the rest of the team if they see the better player sitting. I doubt anyone on O wants the lesser guy starting.
Two?
It said he looked the best of the OL he saw which seems to me to mean the whole OL not just the OT's.
Look, it would be great if Fleming is a star this season. But his history really has been as much more of a swing/backup tackle to date, starting only about 1/3 of his games mostly due to injuries. He has been reliable as a run blocker and struggles at times with pass blocking.
Might very well be a nice pickup for Giants if he continues to develop his game, especially at only $4M. But may have to temper optimism a bit at this point.
These 3 guys all played a LOT in college which is great. Hopefully, even with a shortened camp, they pick up their game as the season goes and by season's end we show our 2021 OL:
Thomas-Hernandez-Gates-Zeitler-Peart
I think this team will struggle out of the gate this year for obvious COVED2020 pre-season reasons but we will improve as the season goes. We just have to get lucky with health and keep playing the young guys.
Obviously its way to early to name starters. Let the camp play out. The good news is that the OL was so bad last year the only realy direction we can go is up.
Obviously its way to early to name starters. Let the camp play out. The good news is that the OL was so bad last year the only realy direction we can go is up.
Thomas-Hernandez-Gates(Pulley)-Zeitler-Fleming as this group is veteran outside of first round pick Thomas. The reason I bracketed Pulley is that I had assumed he'd start the season based on experience alone but am reading Gates is getting reps and looking good.
With that said I think Judge will put the best 11 out to win week 1 and that might be Fleming for now.
I would spect everyone is on a short lease to perform now and consistently because there are young talented guys waiting to get on the field.
I don't see Judge as the coach that won't start a rookie if he gives them the best chance to win.
With that said I think Judge will put the best 11 out to win week 1 and that might be Fleming for now.
I would spect everyone is on a short lease to perform now and consistently because there are young talented guys waiting to get on the field.
I don't see Judge as the coach that won't start a rookie if he gives them the best chance to win.
Injuries happen so I don't doubt Peart will play some this year, especially if a guy like Fleming struggles for whatever reason....
I've been saying all along that because we face four straight veteran coached teams (existing systems) we will likely struggle to an 0-4 start. After that we will come together and because this division is weak we could finish 8-8. I would NOT be shocked if the division winner is 9-7 as even the Eagles (veteran system team) have some holes as compared to years past and could struggle.
Maybe just maybe, some of the peanut gallery ought to say that Gettleman did well by signing him?
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Tackles for several years to come.
With that said I think Judge will put the best 11 out to win week 1 and that might be Fleming for now.
I would spect everyone is on a short lease to perform now and consistently because there are young talented guys waiting to get on the field.
I don't see Judge as the coach that won't start a rookie if he gives them the best chance to win.
Judge and every coach out there will put his best 11 to win out there. This year I can't see how it wouldn't be veterans first given the short off-season. We'll likely start Thomas as he is a #1 pick and possibly McKinney but Peart will need to learn.
Injuries happen so I don't doubt Peart will play some this year, especially if a guy like Fleming struggles for whatever reason....
I've been saying all along that because we face four straight veteran coached teams (existing systems) we will likely struggle to an 0-4 start. After that we will come together and because this division is weak we could finish 8-8. I would NOT be shocked if the division winner is 9-7 as even the Eagles (veteran system team) have some holes as compared to years past and could struggle.
I agree but veteran teams don't always start fast and lack of hard practices by veteran players might work to the Giant's advantage.
An aggressive young team might catch some of these teams off guard.
Plus it's hard to gameplan for a new system.
Maybe just maybe, some of the peanut gallery ought to say that Gettleman did well by signing him?
I think almost all are good/pleased with signing up Fleming as a resource at tackle.
Have you run out of other nuts that praise DG?
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that 3 guys hurt last year, Engram, Peppers and Connelly are all well healed and in great shape when each one of them faced some questions on whether they would be ready by August.
Funny now that there's a new sheriff in town how these young players with a lot to prove worked extra hard to get in shape for this camp. Maybe this happens in any other year, but it sure looks like the vast number of young NYG players all recognize it's put up or shut up time.
We're going to be better this year. There are too many talented players. Guys like Engram can impact a game and injury bad luck is just that, luck. We're due for the worm to turn.
I'm sure that is true and I also think it is a combination of that and covid. These guys didn't have all these practices. They didn't have to leave their homes. They didn't have to waste time driving to the facility. I'm imagine most of them had so much extra time and dedicated it to working out.
That is a good point. Never thought about that actually.
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In comment 14953638 larryflower37 said:
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Tackles for several years to come.
With that said I think Judge will put the best 11 out to win week 1 and that might be Fleming for now.
I would spect everyone is on a short lease to perform now and consistently because there are young talented guys waiting to get on the field.
I don't see Judge as the coach that won't start a rookie if he gives them the best chance to win.
Judge and every coach out there will put his best 11 to win out there. This year I can't see how it wouldn't be veterans first given the short off-season. We'll likely start Thomas as he is a #1 pick and possibly McKinney but Peart will need to learn.
Injuries happen so I don't doubt Peart will play some this year, especially if a guy like Fleming struggles for whatever reason....
I've been saying all along that because we face four straight veteran coached teams (existing systems) we will likely struggle to an 0-4 start. After that we will come together and because this division is weak we could finish 8-8. I would NOT be shocked if the division winner is 9-7 as even the Eagles (veteran system team) have some holes as compared to years past and could struggle.
I agree but veteran teams don't always start fast and lack of hard practices by veteran players might work to the Giant's advantage.
An aggressive young team might catch some of these teams off guard.
Plus it's hard to gameplan for a new system.
I've become a realist and while I think this team will get better as the season goes I think we struggle with too many mistakes early on. I may be wrong but this is a young team, new system, only one proven CB in a passing league. Just too many holes for me...
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...with Fleming looking like the top dog. Zeitler is the only guy with more experience, by a long shot.
Maybe just maybe, some of the peanut gallery ought to say that Gettleman did well by signing him?
I think almost all are good/pleased with signing up Fleming as a resource at tackle.
Have you run out of other nuts that praise DG?
lol
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Its part of the "Giants growing" process. He is part of the future, Fleming isn't.
Nah I don't agree with that at all.
Judge has preached from day 1 everyone has a shot no matter if they're a top pick, or UDFA. The guys who show the most and play the best will play. If Fleming is the better player, he has to play ahead of Peart.
Judge can't preach one thing and do another. Plus it sends a bad message to the rest of the team if they see the better player sitting. I doubt anyone on O wants the lesser guy starting.
+1
Judge can't preach one line and walk another. Best man starts.
Funny now that there's a new sheriff in town how these young players with a lot to prove worked extra hard to get in shape for this camp. Maybe this happens in any other year, but it sure looks like the vast number of young NYG players all recognize it's put up or shut up time.
We're going to be better this year. There are too many talented players. Guys like Engram can impact a game and injury bad luck is just that, luck. We're due for the worm to turn.
I think it is worth watching Flemming and Peart closely. If Flemming is far and away better and trly the best on the OL, then he should start. But, if he and Peart are close, I would lean toward starting Peart since he is likely planned to inherit RT for the long term.
Either way, what was a terrible weakness is now shaping up as a potential strength. We may have bookend OTs with depth. We had neither for years. The guy I am next most interested in hearing about is Lemieux. I would love for him to start ASAP. To me, it may come down to him vs. Hernandez, as Zeitler is likely the most consistent OL we have right now. But, I would also be comfortable with a 3 man competition and the best 2 start. Personally, I want Lemieux at LG, where he played. Hernandez, if I'm not mistaken, played RG in college. I found it confusing as to why he was inserted at LG and Zeitler at RG last year, given that accounts I read said Zeitler looked best at LG with the Browns.
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In comment 14953473 PatersonPlank said:
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Its part of the "Giants growing" process. He is part of the future, Fleming isn't.
Nah I don't agree with that at all.
Judge has preached from day 1 everyone has a shot no matter if they're a top pick, or UDFA. The guys who show the most and play the best will play. If Fleming is the better player, he has to play ahead of Peart.
Judge can't preach one thing and do another. Plus it sends a bad message to the rest of the team if they see the better player sitting. I doubt anyone on O wants the lesser guy starting.
+1
Judge can't preach one line and walk another. Best man starts.
++1
My hope has been all year that as the season progresses we eventually finish with the OL of 2021 starting:
Thomas-Hernandez-Gates-Zeitler-Peart with Lemiuex backing up on the inside and Fleming (if re-signed) at OT (or someone else).