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NFT: Knicks Draft 8/21

Jon in NYC : 8/21/2020 9:07 am
Last night sucked, but I have it as a 9 or 10 person draft:

Tier 1:
LaMelo
Edwards

Tier 2 (no order):
Avidja
Hayes
Haliburton
Okoro
Toppin
Okoongwu
Wiseman
Vassel

Given that, going from 6 to 8 isn't as devastating as the media is making it seem. It's just more lolknicks.

If we stay at 8, outside of the three bigs, I think any of the remaining 5 guys would make plenty of sense. The only iffy fit it Okoro given his lack of shooting and fit next to RJ.

There's also I think going to be some really interesting options to move up, even as high as one with the T Wolves.

Option 1:
Frank
No 8
2021 1st

for

Culver
# 17 from Brooklyn
No. 1 overall


Option 2:

RJ for No. 1 Overall



Think both options would be potentially great fits for both teams, and I'd probably risk next year's first for a guarantee at the no. 1 pick this year.
I like vassell as a fit and possibly bpa  
nygiants16 : 8/21/2020 9:13 am : link
Also Toppin is interesting but his defense is scary
Don't  
DanMetroMan : 8/21/2020 9:14 am : link
want Toppin, fine with most of the others. Okoro strikes me as a Thibs guy... Jimmy Butler starter kit.
Agreed  
Jon in NYC : 8/21/2020 9:16 am : link
on Okoro being a Thibs guy. I definitely am going to go back and forth on him a bunch. Young guy with high upside. If he learns to shoot what doesn't he do well? But that's just such a huge part of the game today and easily his biggest weakness.
id rather vassell because he is already a good shooter  
nygiants16 : 8/21/2020 9:19 am : link
and has the frame to be a good defensive player..
Might be one of those years  
bceagle05 : 8/21/2020 9:34 am : link
where the guy we take at #27 or #38 is better than the lottery pick, like Mitch/Knox.
Knicks  
TyreeHelmet : 8/21/2020 9:38 am : link
Why are fans and media freaking out about last night? It would have been nice to move up but the odds were against them. And Tim Duncan isn't exactly at the top of this draft. Last year was far far worse...
RE: Knicks  
robbieballs2003 : 8/21/2020 9:41 am : link
In comment 14954037 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
Why are fans and media freaking out about last night? It would have been nice to move up but the odds were against them. And Tim Duncan isn't exactly at the top of this draft. Last year was far far worse...


Simply because it is the Knicks.
Okoro  
DanMetroMan : 8/21/2020 9:41 am : link
is considered to have off the charts bball IQ and is a hard worker. Likely not the next Butler BUT I wouldn't sleep on him. Could develop into a very nice player.
Older guys  
Longtimelurker : 8/21/2020 9:43 am : link
Hope Tobbin isn’t another wesley Johnson. A 22 yr old who dominated colllege basketball but peaked in development.
Reading a bit more about this draft...  
Metnut : 8/21/2020 9:44 am : link
it's a flatter draft than normal. Not a bad one. You don't see the surefire generational player or even all-stars up at the top but the draft looks like it has anywhere from 15-25 bond fide starters.

The Knicks will have absolutely have the opportunity to get an above-average NBA starter at #8. It's up to the front office to draft the right player and the coaching staff to handle that player.
Could we see pick 1 and 2 traded?  
nygiants16 : 8/21/2020 9:44 am : link
Twolves have russell and towns, not exactly win now but not rebuolding either..

Warriors obvious situation..
anything short of a star  
nygiants16 : 8/21/2020 9:46 am : link
i am not trading any of the 2021 picks
Supposedly Vassel has fans in the Knicks org.  
Anakim : 8/21/2020 10:14 am : link
My guess is if they stay at 8, they target Halliburton or Cole Anthony
I asked this on the other thread. I don't hear Anthony's name come  
robbieballs2003 : 8/21/2020 10:30 am : link
up too much. Can someone tell me more about him other than what I read? I read he had a very disappointing year last year and it was injury filled. He was talked about as a top 5 pick.
I just don’t think there’s anything he does well.  
Jon in NYC : 8/21/2020 10:33 am : link
Bad shooter bad facilitator average athlete old for his grade
How about Saddiq Bey?  
JJ2525 : 8/21/2020 10:36 am : link
This seems like a draft where you're probably not going to get a game changing stud but you could get very good rotational pieces. Bey is a great shooter, high basketball IQ, good defender. Wouldn't he be good fit with RJ?
My attention to NBA stuff is poor,  
bigbluehoya : 8/21/2020 10:48 am : link
to be kind, but wouldn't RJ be the best piece in this class right now?

Maybe he won't be the best player long term but I don't think I'd trade him for #1 straight up.

Am I way off base on that?
RE: My attention to NBA stuff is poor,  
DanMetroMan : 8/21/2020 10:50 am : link
In comment 14954083 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
to be kind, but wouldn't RJ be the best piece in this class right now?

Maybe he won't be the best player long term but I don't think I'd trade him for #1 straight up.

Am I way off base on that?


He'd certainly be in the mix. I personally would take Ball over RJ and some teams are extremely high on Avdija and Hayes but yeah he'd be in the mix for 1-1 in this poor draft.
RE: Supposedly Vassel has fans in the Knicks org.  
larryflower37 : 8/21/2020 10:53 am : link
In comment 14954065 Anakim said:
Quote:
My guess is if they stay at 8, they target Halliburton or Cole Anthony


I think Vessell fits the Knicks well.
2 way player that can shoot the 3.
If the plan is to go all in for Van Vleet no need to draft a haliburton or Anthony.
.  
DanMetroMan : 8/21/2020 10:54 am : link

Jonathan Wasserman
@NBADraftWass
·
13m
For past few months my answer to who Knicks should draft (if they don't move up) has been Vassell.

I also have Maxey, Pat Williams top 10 and legit options at #8.

I'm a Killian fan but worry about his development on NY's roster + building around limited shooters w/ RJ and Mitch
If Knicks stay put  
nygiants16 : 8/21/2020 11:02 am : link
add vassell and FVV, trade randle for a bag of chips and add a stretch 4 that will defend..

FVV and Vassell is a good defensive back court with very good shooting
I think Knick  
Phil in LA : 8/21/2020 11:02 am : link
fans are more upset than usual over last night's lottery because they sensed some momentum with the hirings of Rose, et al. and moving up in the loittery, even a shitty one, seemed like it would make sense. Moving down didn't.
RE: My attention to NBA stuff is poor,  
Strahan91 : 8/21/2020 11:04 am : link
In comment 14954083 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
to be kind, but wouldn't RJ be the best piece in this class right now?

Maybe he won't be the best player long term but I don't think I'd trade him for #1 straight up.

Am I way off base on that?

Not at all. I think he’d be the consensus #1 pick in this draft
Vassell and Haliburton seem like the guys that the Knicks will be  
Optimus-NY : 8/21/2020 11:05 am : link
choosing from with the 8th pick. Hayes won't get past the Pistons at 7.
RE: anything short of a star  
TyreeHelmet : 8/21/2020 11:05 am : link
In comment 14954051 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
i am not trading any of the 2021 picks


Totally agree. Knicks will most likely be a bottom 5 team and you have to hope they get incredibly lucky with the Mavs pick through injuries. It’s really the only piece you got for KP.
Ideal off season  
Earl the goat : 8/21/2020 11:06 am : link
Trade Randle and Smith

Draft at 8 if available Oneyka from USC
Trade up from 27 to get Saddiq Bey

Sign VanVleet and Christian wood

Robinson
Wood
Bey
Barrett
VanVleet

Bench
Oneyka
Frank
Wooten
Iggy Etc

Go young as possible. Develop kids
Let Thibs mold them into his system
And hope for 2021 Free Agency bonanza

Both trade ideas at the top of this post are awful  
GMEN46 : 8/21/2020 11:07 am : link
2021 draft is stacked, you could make a case that the top 8 in next years draft would go 1-8 in this draft. There is legit superstar potential for the top 5. To me there is no difference between 1-8 in this draft. I actually like being 8 vs 1 for a few reasons. You save cap space. The Knicks aren’t forced to choose between 8 guys that are about the same and then get criticized when they make the wrong pick. I think they can try to move down from 8 to the teens and maybe pick up an unprotected 1 next year if a team like orlando is looking for a specific players.

They should do what it takes to get another 2021 lottery pick because clearly the Dallas pick will be late 20s.

I would offer orlando 8 and 28 for 15 and 1st rounder next year. Throw in smith jr if needed.

If they have to stay at 8 then take Halliburton, vessly or toppin.
RE: RE: My attention to NBA stuff is poor,  
DanMetroMan : 8/21/2020 11:07 am : link
In comment 14954096 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
In comment 14954083 bigbluehoya said:


Quote:


to be kind, but wouldn't RJ be the best piece in this class right now?

Maybe he won't be the best player long term but I don't think I'd trade him for #1 straight up.

Am I way off base on that?


Not at all. I think he’d be the consensus #1 pick in this draft


Strongly disagree. If you believe in Ball then he has more potential value than Barrett. Not saying Barrett wouldn't be in the mix for 1-1 but "consensus"? No way.
A lot of talk around the Hawks and Vessell  
larryflower37 : 8/21/2020 11:08 am : link
at 6.
Which is normally how the Knicks draft goes
Might be the best best defender in the draft.
could move RJ to the 3 or play Vessell at the 3

draft profile- Hawks - ( New Window )
RE: A lot of talk around the Hawks and Vessell  
nygiants16 : 8/21/2020 11:09 am : link
In comment 14954103 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
at 6.
Which is normally how the Knicks draft goes
Might be the best best defender in the draft.
could move RJ to the 3 or play Vessell at the 3 draft profile- Hawks - ( New Window )


Vessell to hawks really doesnt make sense, they just drafted deandre hunter, same skillset..
RE: I asked this on the other thread. I don't hear Anthony's name come  
Strahan91 : 8/21/2020 11:12 am : link
In comment 14954073 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
up too much. Can someone tell me more about him other than what I read? I read he had a very disappointing year last year and it was injury filled. He was talked about as a top 5 pick.

I have a feeling Anthony will be the Knicks pick. He seems like a Thibs player. Hard worker, brings it every night on both ends of the floor, etc. In terms of Cole Anthony the prospect, he's a good shooter (better than the numbers would indicate), very talented ball handler and a good athlete. He's a solid defender but due to his size won't be able to switch on the PnR and is limited to defending only one position. His shot selection was shaky to say the least and he's not a great passer/facilitator but RJ is so he'd be a good fit next to him in the backcourt imo.

He definitely had a disappointing year, some of which was his fault some of which wasn't (the injury, NC's lack of talent this year and no spacing at all). To me he's a boom/bust type prospect. His floor is rather low but the ceiling is very high (all-star type lead guard but not the #1 on a title team).
I  
DanMetroMan : 8/21/2020 11:14 am : link
just want one of

Ball, Hayes, Avdija, Edwards, Haliburton, Wiseman, Vassell, Okoro or Okongwu. Poku is intriguing, Hampton is still intriguing. They should land a decent player. Pass on Obi for me.
RE: RE: RE: My attention to NBA stuff is poor,  
Strahan91 : 8/21/2020 11:15 am : link
In comment 14954102 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 14954096 Strahan91 said:


Quote:


In comment 14954083 bigbluehoya said:


Quote:


to be kind, but wouldn't RJ be the best piece in this class right now?

Maybe he won't be the best player long term but I don't think I'd trade him for #1 straight up.

Am I way off base on that?


Not at all. I think he’d be the consensus #1 pick in this draft



Strongly disagree. If you believe in Ball then he has more potential value than Barrett. Not saying Barrett wouldn't be in the mix for 1-1 but "consensus"? No way.

We can agree to disagree but Barrett had fewer question marks and weaknesses/leaps of faith to his game than Ball does right now. Ball might not even be the top point guard in this class when its all said and done (although he is mine).
Anthony's  
DanMetroMan : 8/21/2020 11:16 am : link
step father is expected to run for NYC mayor, would be an interesting dynamic lol
I’m just so grateful for the wolves and warriors  
djm : 8/21/2020 11:16 am : link
They so deserved the first two picks. Totally fair and balanced nba lottery process wins the day yet again.

RE: Ideal off season  
larryflower37 : 8/21/2020 11:16 am : link
In comment 14954099 Earl the goat said:
Quote:
Trade Randle and Smith

Draft at 8 if available Oneyka from USC
Trade up from 27 to get Saddiq Bey

Sign VanVleet and Christian wood

Robinson
Wood
Bey
Barrett
VanVleet

Bench
Oneyka
Frank
Wooten
Iggy Etc

Go young as possible. Develop kids
Let Thibs mold them into his system
And hope for 2021 Free Agency bonanza


this would be a great off-season I just don't see anyone taking Randle and that contract without draft picks and young talent.
Wood and Van Vleet make this relevant
Fuck it lets Go knicks  
djm : 8/21/2020 11:18 am : link
It’s obvious at this point that good luck isn’t going to save the Knicks. Just gotta draft well, make good trades and build this thing one player at a time.
VanVleet  
DanMetroMan : 8/21/2020 11:18 am : link
needs to be our #1 priority. He's exactly the kind of player we should be looking to add if we are trying to change the culture and vibe around this organization. Entering his prime, low mileage.
RE: I’m just so grateful for the wolves and warriors  
nygiants16 : 8/21/2020 11:19 am : link
In comment 14954116 djm said:
Quote:
They so deserved the first two picks. Totally fair and balanced nba lottery process wins the day yet again.


Dont forget Wolves are for sale..
Halliburton would be the most blah pick in this draft for us.  
bceagle05 : 8/21/2020 11:20 am : link
He needs to play beside a playmaking guard like Trae Young. I don’t think he’s move the needle at all.
RJ Barrett just didn’t really display any great traits last season  
djm : 8/21/2020 11:30 am : link
The Knicks know him better than anyone right now. To me RJ absolutely has to develop a good to great outside shot or he is never going to develop into anything more than a decent player. He’s not quick twitch and he can’t shoot. He’s got size, age and want and that’s it. Ok defender. I don’t know... I get not wanting to trade him so soon but if you can get back a better athlete I think you have to do it while his value is still pretty high, if it even is high at this point.

If Barrett can develop a lethal outside shot he could be another Paul Pierce type maybe, or something like that, but he’s got a long way to go. I almost think Frankie has a better chance to develop an outside shot as his form looks better.

Barrett really is the million dollar question for the Knicks this offseason.
If, as it's looking, the 76ers make an early playoff exit...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 8/21/2020 11:31 am : link
Do they shake things up, i.e. put Embiid or Simmons on the trading block?
My  
DanMetroMan : 8/21/2020 11:32 am : link
sleeper pick is Achiuwa. Freakish athlete, great length, can guard 1-5's. Don't be shocked.
RE: Both trade ideas at the top of this post are awful  
Optimus-NY : 8/21/2020 11:33 am : link
In comment 14954101 GMEN46 said:
Quote:
2021 draft is stacked, you could make a case that the top 8 in next years draft would go 1-8 in this draft. There is legit superstar potential for the top 5. To me there is no difference between 1-8 in this draft. I actually like being 8 vs 1 for a few reasons. You save cap space. The Knicks aren’t forced to choose between 8 guys that are about the same and then get criticized when they make the wrong pick. I think they can try to move down from 8 to the teens and maybe pick up an unprotected 1 next year if a team like orlando is looking for a specific players.

They should do what it takes to get another 2021 lottery pick because clearly the Dallas pick will be late 20s.

I would offer orlando 8 and 28 for 15 and 1st rounder next year. Throw in smith jr if needed.

If they have to stay at 8 then take Halliburton, vessly or toppin.


I agree with your thinking regarding the 2021 Draft. Accumulate capital in that draft because it'll be stacked.
RE: VanVleet  
djm : 8/21/2020 11:33 am : link
In comment 14954119 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
needs to be our #1 priority. He's exactly the kind of player we should be looking to add if we are trying to change the culture and vibe around this organization. Entering his prime, low mileage.


Seconded. I get scared of how well he’d look here compared to the comfy confines of Toronto but we need this kind of player in a big big way. If we didn’t have thibs I’d be scared but I think vleet is worth the chase, especially since he’d only cost money and not any other assets. I’d consider Paul as well but only if he came without any additional cost other than his contract.
RE: If, as it's looking, the 76ers make an early playoff exit...  
nygiants16 : 8/21/2020 11:33 am : link
In comment 14954126 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Do they shake things up, i.e. put Embiid or Simmons on the trading block?


no, i think they fire brett brown and keep simmons and embiid 1 more year
Achiuwa  
DanMetroMan : 8/21/2020 11:35 am : link
is maybe the most underrated prospect in this weak draft.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Both trade ideas at the top of this post are awful  
Jon in NYC : 8/21/2020 11:35 am : link
In comment 14954101 GMEN46 said:
Quote:
2021 draft is stacked, you could make a case that the top 8 in next years draft would go 1-8 in this draft. There is legit superstar potential for the top 5. To me there is no difference between 1-8 in this draft. I actually like being 8 vs 1 for a few reasons. You save cap space. The Knicks aren’t forced to choose between 8 guys that are about the same and then get criticized when they make the wrong pick. I think they can try to move down from 8 to the teens and maybe pick up an unprotected 1 next year if a team like orlando is looking for a specific players.

They should do what it takes to get another 2021 lottery pick because clearly the Dallas pick will be late 20s.

I would offer orlando 8 and 28 for 15 and 1st rounder next year. Throw in smith jr if needed.

If they have to stay at 8 then take Halliburton, vessly or toppin.


Lol both those trades are awful but you want to trade for two non lotto picks.
RE: RE: If, as it's looking, the 76ers make an early playoff exit...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 8/21/2020 11:41 am : link
In comment 14954133 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14954126 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


Do they shake things up, i.e. put Embiid or Simmons on the trading block?



no, i think they fire brett brown and keep simmons and embiid 1 more year


Yeah, I tend to agree with that. I think they not only fire Brown, but have a big turnover in the FO.
RE: RE: RE: If, as it's looking, the 76ers make an early playoff exit...  
nygiants16 : 8/21/2020 11:43 am : link
In comment 14954138 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
In comment 14954133 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 14954126 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


Do they shake things up, i.e. put Embiid or Simmons on the trading block?



no, i think they fire brett brown and keep simmons and embiid 1 more year



Yeah, I tend to agree with that. I think they not only fire Brown, but have a big turnover in the FO.


Problem for the sixers is their roster construct is awful and horrible contracts, not much room to improve
Those Horford & Harris contacts...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 8/21/2020 11:44 am : link
Yikes.

I can't believe I picked them to go to the Finals before the season.
RE: RE: If, as it's looking, the 76ers make an early playoff exit...  
larryflower37 : 8/21/2020 11:47 am : link
In comment 14954133 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14954126 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


Do they shake things up, i.e. put Embiid or Simmons on the trading block?



no, i think they fire brett brown and keep simmons and embiid 1 more year


if anyone goes it's Embiid.
only way I make this move is if they take Randle and the Knicks can still land VanVleet.
Agreed that FVV  
Jon in NYC : 8/21/2020 12:00 pm : link
makes a ton of sense, but why would he leave the raptors who can pay just as much?
RE: Agreed that FVV  
nygiants16 : 8/21/2020 12:03 pm : link
In comment 14954158 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
makes a ton of sense, but why would he leave the raptors who can pay just as much?


will they? All talk is they will go hard after giannis, are they going to give FVV a max deal?
RE: I think Knick  
bceagle05 : 8/21/2020 12:07 pm : link
In comment 14954094 Phil in LA said:
Quote:
fans are more upset than usual over last night's lottery because they sensed some momentum with the hirings of Rose, et al. and moving up in the loittery, even a shitty one, seemed like it would make sense. Moving down didn't.

Well said. Moving up would’ve been a nice way to continue the momentum - it was more symbolic than anything. Rangers have stolen all the good luck lately.
RE: RE: Agreed that FVV  
Jon in NYC : 8/21/2020 12:10 pm : link
In comment 14954159 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14954158 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


makes a ton of sense, but why would he leave the raptors who can pay just as much?



will they? All talk is they will go hard after giannis, are they going to give FVV a max deal?


Cant see Giannis going to the raptors personally. To play with Siakam and an aging Lowry?
Knicks Draft  
Pete44 : 8/21/2020 12:13 pm : link
Why are we sleeping Aaron Nesmith, best shooter in the draft and we need shooting. He should be the pick, if he is even available.

I actually think the pick will come down to Cole Anthony, Nesmith or Kira Lewis. They fill all the needs. We don't need to make an Iman Shumpert pick with Vassell.

As for moving down in the lottery, it just seems we are the only team year in and year out that moves down 2 spots in every lottery. It is just annoying. Of course, I thought they would get the 1st pick this year, because this is the worst draft since the Anthony Bennett draft.
RE: RE: RE: Agreed that FVV  
nygiants16 : 8/21/2020 12:17 pm : link
In comment 14954169 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 14954159 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 14954158 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


makes a ton of sense, but why would he leave the raptors who can pay just as much?



will they? All talk is they will go hard after giannis, are they going to give FVV a max deal?



Cant see Giannis going to the raptors personally. To play with Siakam and an aging Lowry?


Lowry would be off the books, giannis and someone else could go to toronto to pair with siakim
RE: Agreed that FVV  
larryflower37 : 8/21/2020 12:17 pm : link
In comment 14954158 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
makes a ton of sense, but why would he leave the raptors who can pay just as much?


rumors are the Raptors are hesitant to go Max on VanVleet.
The Knicks and Pistons are 2 teams desperate for a young All star to build around and would be willing to go all in on him.
As a Knicks fan I will be thrilled to pay VanVleet the max and build around him
RE: Knicks Draft  
nygiants16 : 8/21/2020 12:17 pm : link
In comment 14954172 Pete44 said:
Quote:
Why are we sleeping Aaron Nesmith, best shooter in the draft and we need shooting. He should be the pick, if he is even available.

I actually think the pick will come down to Cole Anthony, Nesmith or Kira Lewis. They fill all the needs. We don't need to make an Iman Shumpert pick with Vassell.

As for moving down in the lottery, it just seems we are the only team year in and year out that moves down 2 spots in every lottery. It is just annoying. Of course, I thought they would get the 1st pick this year, because this is the worst draft since the Anthony Bennett draft.


Vassell shot 41% from 3 he is not Shumpert
RE: I think Knick  
Enzo : 8/21/2020 1:11 pm : link
In comment 14954094 Phil in LA said:
Quote:
fans are more upset than usual over last night's lottery because they sensed some momentum with the hirings of Rose, et al. and moving up in the loittery, even a shitty one, seemed like it would make sense. Moving down didn't.

eh, maybe I'm in the minority but Rose is the THIRD guy in a row they've brought in to run the team with zero experience in the role. Maybe the guys he brought in under him are better than what we've had in the past, but you can certainly view the Rose hire as "same old Knicks".
Jon in nyc  
GMEN46 : 8/21/2020 1:14 pm : link
My point is orlando is a team that finished just outside the lottery this year, but could very well be back there next year. (doesn’t have to be orlando rhat was just an example). Maybe it’s a western conference team that is good but won’t make the playoffs. The new lotto format shows that anything can happen. If the pick has a chance to be a lotto pick next year you take that risk and if it ends up being 15 it’s fine. There is no one at 8 this year is exciting. I meant trade 38(second rounder) and 8 this year.

You were suggesting trading our 2021 pick to move up this years awful draft, you are clearly not understanding the lack of talent in this years draft vs. next years draft. Unless you are getting bradley beal 2021 pick in untouchable.

If the Knicks had the #1 pick in this years draft and there was a way to to trade for the guaranteed 6th pick in next years draft I would do it straight up. That’s how good next year is.



Vessell  
31southst : 8/21/2020 1:25 pm : link
Having watched zero FSU this year, is he that good of a shooter? Specifically why has his FT% been out of sync with his 3P%? It makes me nervous about his shooting in the NBA since FT tends to be the better predictor.

I am intrigued with Kira Lewis and I think Aaron Nesmith makes sense too. Didn't someone with intel say the Knicks are high on AN?
LaMelo Ball  
Earl the goat : 8/21/2020 2:00 pm : link
Has Bust written all over him

Bust meaning he’s going to be picked in top 3
If he was a mid to low first then I wouldn’t be considerIng him a bust

Reasons why
1. He can’t shoot
2. And LaVar will resurface and be a distraction
RE: RE: If, as it's looking, the 76ers make an early playoff exit...  
Mike in NJ : 8/21/2020 2:14 pm : link
In comment 14954133 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14954126 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


Do they shake things up, i.e. put Embiid or Simmons on the trading block?



no, i think they fire brett brown and keep simmons and embiid 1 more year


I would be all over Simmons if he were available, but what would they have to give up to get him. Would have to start with RJ and #8, what else? Obviously would have to add salary filler as well.
RE: RE: RE: If, as it's looking, the 76ers make an early playoff exit...  
nygiants16 : 8/21/2020 2:23 pm : link
In comment 14954264 Mike in NJ said:
Quote:
In comment 14954133 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 14954126 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


Do they shake things up, i.e. put Embiid or Simmons on the trading block?



no, i think they fire brett brown and keep simmons and embiid 1 more year



I would be all over Simmons if he were available, but what would they have to give up to get him. Would have to start with RJ and #8, what else? Obviously would have to add salary filler as well.


probably both 2021 picks, possibly a 2023 pick as well
Nesmith  
TommyWiseau : 8/21/2020 2:38 pm : link
is interesting. The kid can shoot and he has pretty good basketball IQ, with his length he can become an above average defender for sure. I would be happy with this pick
Nesmith  
steve in ky : 8/21/2020 3:03 pm : link
He got hot for 14 games at just the right time to help his draft status, but that also makes him a little bit of a gamble to draft. Who really knows?
Achiuwa  
DanMetroMan : 8/21/2020 3:09 pm : link
16 and 11 2 blocks. Do it up Leon!
a lineup of Vassel, Frank and Mitch would be fun defense to watch  
Heisenberg : 8/21/2020 3:16 pm : link
They could definitely help with RJ's limitations but the other team would still score when Randle gets caught ball watching or Knox gets bullied.

Would be happy to have Vassel. Outstanding defender with really high IQ. Can shoot the three and still young enough that a good development program can help him fill in the rest of his game by improving his handle and scoring. But a high floor as 3 and D. Sounds like a guy Thibs would love. And would help with the spacing that RJ needs.
One thing with Vassell he is only 19  
nygiants16 : 8/21/2020 3:18 pm : link
he still has plenty of room to grow and definitely took a step up from his freshman year..

He added the shot off the dribble and showed glimpses of a mlre advanced offensjve game..

Not saying superstar potential but to say he has hit is ceiling is not really true..
Golden State  
Pete44 : 8/21/2020 3:51 pm : link
There are already rumors that the GS/Philly are talking Wiggins and 2nd pick for Embid.
RE: Golden State  
nygiants16 : 8/21/2020 4:06 pm : link
In comment 14954317 Pete44 said:
Quote:
There are already rumors that the GS/Philly are talking Wiggins and 2nd pick for Embid.


What a terrible trade for philly
RE: Golden State  
larryflower37 : 8/21/2020 4:10 pm : link
In comment 14954317 Pete44 said:
Quote:
There are already rumors that the GS/Philly are talking Wiggins and 2nd pick for Embid.


I will go Randle, Robinson, DSJ and both Dallas picks for Embiid.
sign VanVleet
Draft Vessell
RE: RE: Golden State  
nygiants16 : 8/21/2020 4:12 pm : link
In comment 14954339 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
In comment 14954317 Pete44 said:


Quote:


There are already rumors that the GS/Philly are talking Wiggins and 2nd pick for Embid.



I will go Randle, Robinson, DSJ and both Dallas picks for Embiid.
sign VanVleet
Draft Vessell


you will need to add more
The Golden State thing really pisses me off.  
bceagle05 : 8/21/2020 4:13 pm : link
They pull the plug on this season and get a nice young player to plug and play on a 60-win team, or they deal it for another key veteran piece. Meanwhile we’ve been waiting 35 years for a break.
Fran Fraschilla killing our roster on The Michael Kay Show.  
bceagle05 : 8/21/2020 4:44 pm : link
“They’re starting from zero.” Lukewarm at best on RJ, doesn’t like anyone else. He wouldn’t hesitate to trade anyone for someone “who plays winning basketball.” Sadly, I tend to agree with him. I think we’re higher on RJ and Mitch than anyone else is.
RE: Fran Fraschilla killing our roster on The Michael Kay Show.  
nygiants16 : 8/21/2020 4:56 pm : link
In comment 14954373 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
“They’re starting from zero.” Lukewarm at best on RJ, doesn’t like anyone else. He wouldn’t hesitate to trade anyone for someone “who plays winning basketball.” Sadly, I tend to agree with him. I think we’re higher on RJ and Mitch than anyone else is.


Listening to Michael Kay talk about basketball is cringeworthy, doesnt even know who the assistants they hired are..
RE: Fran Fraschilla killing our roster on The Michael Kay Show.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/21/2020 5:13 pm : link
In comment 14954373 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
“They’re starting from zero.” Lukewarm at best on RJ, doesn’t like anyone else. He wouldn’t hesitate to trade anyone for someone “who plays winning basketball.” Sadly, I tend to agree with him. I think we’re higher on RJ and Mitch than anyone else is.



Here's the thing about Fran. This was his opinion about RJ in July 2019

Quote:
"Going to be a good player in New York, but when you look at the Knicks, the floor is going to be crowded because there's not a lot of outside shooting. That will hurt R.J.'s game. Long-term he's going to be terrific, but played about the way I thought I expected him to in Las Vegas."

What changed in 13 months?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/21/2020 5:13 pm : link
Now he doesn't play winning basketball and he's lukewarm at best?

You're better off not paying too much attention to Fran.
Lukewarm wasn’t an exact quote, just the word I used  
bceagle05 : 8/21/2020 5:36 pm : link
to summarize his answer. He’s pretty much in agreement with the rest of us: RJ can be good, but probably not great. I’m not a big fan of Fran, but I bet most objective observers would agree with his take.
RE: RE: Golden State  
TyreeHelmet : 8/21/2020 5:46 pm : link
In comment 14954339 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
In comment 14954317 Pete44 said:


Quote:


There are already rumors that the GS/Philly are talking Wiggins and 2nd pick for Embid.



I will go Randle, Robinson, DSJ and both Dallas picks for Embiid.
sign VanVleet
Draft Vessell


So 2 late 1sts, 2 guys with negative value and Robinson for Embiid? Come on man be somewhat realistic.

FVV  
TyreeHelmet : 8/21/2020 5:49 pm : link
I'm probably biased because how much I loved him as a college player, but if I'm Leon Rose I'm doing whatever it takes to get him. Fits perfectly in so many ways for what they need. I just really hope they don't go all in because they want to "retain cap flexibility". How about signing a really good winning 2 way player?

And Michael Kay is a complete moron. Him and his clown partners know nothing about hoops.
RE: Lukewarm wasn’t an exact quote, just the word I used  
nygiants16 : 8/21/2020 5:50 pm : link
In comment 14954394 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
to summarize his answer. He’s pretty much in agreement with the rest of us: RJ can be good, but probably not great. I’m not a big fan of Fran, but I bet most objective observers would agree with his take.


Rj i think has all star potential, with star if he gets a consistent jumper..

Mitch can be dominant on the defensivr end..

to say they have 0 is not fair and of course kay ran with it...
Get Embid  
Carl in CT : 8/21/2020 5:53 pm : link
And with CAP space they will come. At least he is a young player.
Mitch, Frank  
Carl in CT : 8/21/2020 5:55 pm : link
Knox and like 3 #1’s might do it. Gulp do we go down that road again?
RE: Mitch, Frank  
nygiants16 : 8/21/2020 5:55 pm : link
In comment 14954407 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Knox and like 3 #1’s might do it. Gulp do we go down that road again?


try at least 4 #1s
RE: Mitch, Frank  
TyreeHelmet : 8/21/2020 6:02 pm : link
In comment 14954407 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Knox and like 3 #1’s might do it. Gulp do we go down that road again?


They laugh and hang up the phone...
To even get them to talk  
nygiants16 : 8/21/2020 6:04 pm : link
Mitch, 8, 2021 pick, 2021 dallas pick, 2023 pick and maybe 1 more


If they are taking Russell and #2  
Carl in CT : 8/21/2020 6:24 pm : link
The Knick trade is better. I’m not saying they wouldn’t hang up the phone.
RE: If they are taking Russell and #2  
nygiants16 : 8/21/2020 6:33 pm : link
In comment 14954418 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
The Knick trade is better. I’m not saying they wouldn’t hang up the phone.


they are nkt takong wiggins and 2 and if they do they are morons
I know denver is this up and coming team  
nygiants16 : 8/21/2020 6:39 pm : link
and these playoffs are different and crazy, but they look awful and Murrays deal looks like it is going to be horrid
16  
Carl in CT : 8/21/2020 6:39 pm : link
Agreed
Sixers need shooting  
nygiants16 : 8/21/2020 6:41 pm : link
they should of let harris walk, never signed horford and resigned jj and butler..

Redick was perfect for Philly.  
bceagle05 : 8/21/2020 6:43 pm : link
You knew that would be a huge loss.
They are a suped up version of the knicks this year  
nygiants16 : 8/21/2020 6:47 pm : link
Playing 2 bigs, the 4 man cant consistently shoot 3s, point guard who cant shoot..no floor spacing
RE: Sixers need shooting  
TyreeHelmet : 8/21/2020 7:06 pm : link
In comment 14954425 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
they should of let harris walk, never signed horford and resigned jj and butler..


I miss on a lot of things but I never saw it with Harris. I can’t believe he got a max. Probably the most overrated player in the league.
Hypothetically a package of 27& 38  
Carl in CT : 8/21/2020 7:32 pm : link
Could move you up how many spots 3-4?
Bleacher report had a mock trade  
nygiants16 : 8/21/2020 9:03 pm : link
8, 21 first from dallas and reggie bullock for 2 and jordan poole
Watching the playoffs  
nygiants16 : 8/21/2020 9:09 pm : link
You dont win unless you have a guy who can just take the ball and go get you a bucket. At the end kf games the pace is so slow without that guy you will not win.

That is why it is hard to win with a big, right now you win with the sgar guard or wing
Nothing new from Berman, except this nugget...  
bceagle05 : 8/21/2020 9:23 pm : link
Quote:
According to a source, the Knicks are confident they will get a solid prospect with the No. 8 pick — even if they drop back a shade to collect another asset in a trade.

“The Knicks are just as concerned with finding those uncovered nuggets with their other two picks [Nos. 27 and 38],’’ one NBA source said.

Berman - ( New Window )
RE: Bleacher report had a mock trade  
Jon in NYC : 8/21/2020 10:56 pm : link
In comment 14954460 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
8, 21 first from dallas and reggie bullock for 2 and jordan poole


This is such a no brainer. Hard to imagine GSW doing that.
The bleacher report trade makes no sense for knicks  
GMEN46 : 8/22/2020 9:52 am : link
The difference between the 2nd player in this draft and the 8th is irrelevant. I have no interest in lamelo ball. Stay at 8 or trade down or trade the pick as part of bigger package. Don’t trade the Dallas pick, you don’t trade unprotected picks. It’s likely the Dallas pick is in late 20’s but the west is stacked and injuries happen. If Dallas had porzingis or doncic our for an extended period of time next year could very welll make it a lottery pick that’s how deep the west will be.

Again there is no one going before 8 that is worth trading any assets for. Whoever they get at 8 will be a rotation player with similar upside as the player that goes at 2
The bleacher report trade makes no sense for knicks  
GMEN46 : 8/22/2020 9:56 am : link
The difference between the 2nd player in this draft and the 8th is irrelevant. I have no interest in lamelo ball. Stay at 8 or trade down or trade the pick as part of bigger package. Don’t trade the Dallas pick, you don’t trade unprotected picks. It’s likely the Dallas pick is in late 20’s but the west is stacked and injuries happen. If Dallas had porzingis or doncic our for an extended period of time next year could very welll make it a lottery pick that’s how deep the west will be.

Again there is no one going before 8 that is worth trading any assets for. Whoever they get at 8 will be a rotation player with similar upside as the player that goes at 2
Simple question  
djm : 8/22/2020 10:39 am : link
Would you guys liquify most of the knicks assets to somehow net two big stars this offseason? Let’s say you could turn most of all the kids and picks into embid and van vleet and still have future space for more depth/star power. Let’s say Mitch and Barrett are dealt but maybe not every future pick as it’s impossible to deal every pick in a row anyway.

Do you do it?
RE: Simple question  
nygiants16 : 8/22/2020 10:46 am : link
In comment 14954617 djm said:
Quote:
Would you guys liquify most of the knicks assets to somehow net two big stars this offseason? Let’s say you could turn most of all the kids and picks into embid and van vleet and still have future space for more depth/star power. Let’s say Mitch and Barrett are dealt but maybe not every future pick as it’s impossible to deal every pick in a row anyway.

Do you do it?


I think its possible to get embiid while keeping barrett and still sign fvv and have max space next year
Doesn’t even have to be embid and vleet  
djm : 8/22/2020 10:47 am : link
Any two combo that might be available.

I think I do it. I think you kind of have to ? Robinson is a good player already but what’s his ceiling. If he can’t put the ball on the floor and score, he’s a limited player even on his best day. Can he even shoot let alone shoot off the dribble? Maybe, but this year is big. Do we wait another year on Mitch and let him learn under thibs but risk his trade value going down or do you move him now while the getting is good.

RJ.... I don’t know. He seems so ordinary to me. He’s so young though. Has a player like RJ with his skills and early limitations ever developed into a star? I’m trying to think of any prior instances that would give us hope for his future...
RE: RE: Simple question  
djm : 8/22/2020 10:49 am : link
In comment 14954626 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14954617 djm said:


Quote:


Would you guys liquify most of the knicks assets to somehow net two big stars this offseason? Let’s say you could turn most of all the kids and picks into embid and van vleet and still have future space for more depth/star power. Let’s say Mitch and Barrett are dealt but maybe not every future pick as it’s impossible to deal every pick in a row anyway.

Do you do it?



I think its possible to get embiid while keeping barrett and still sign fvv and have max space next year


Mitch, this years lotto pick, Randle or cap filler, a choice of any younger cheaper player(s) on the roster, next years dallas pick and maybe another pick after that. Maybe? Don’t know if Philly does it.
RE: RE: RE: Simple question  
nygiants16 : 8/22/2020 10:51 am : link
In comment 14954631 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 14954626 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 14954617 djm said:


Quote:


Would you guys liquify most of the knicks assets to somehow net two big stars this offseason? Let’s say you could turn most of all the kids and picks into embid and van vleet and still have future space for more depth/star power. Let’s say Mitch and Barrett are dealt but maybe not every future pick as it’s impossible to deal every pick in a row anyway.

Do you do it?



I think its possible to get embiid while keeping barrett and still sign fvv and have max space next year



Mitch, this years lotto pick, Randle or cap filler, a choice of any younger cheaper player(s) on the roster, next years dallas pick and maybe another pick after that. Maybe? Don’t know if Philly does it.


Most likely Mitch, randle, maybe knox, 8, 21 and dllas 21 and maybe our 23 and maybe even one more pick
I have no issue trading the Dallas picks  
bceagle05 : 8/22/2020 11:53 am : link
but I wouldn’t just assume next year’s Dallas pick is in the late 20s, as some have suggested. LAL, LAC, Golden State, Houston, Utah and Denver are going nowhere. OKC may drop off if they dump CP3, but New Orleans and Portland will be in the mix for playoff spots, too. I don’t think Dallas graduates to the top of the playoff bracket for another year.
Watch us trade the Dallas pick and then next year Porzingis and Doncic  
Anakim : 8/22/2020 11:57 am : link
get hurt and Dallas becomes a lottery team
Yeah I really don’t want to touch the 2021 picks.  
bceagle05 : 8/22/2020 12:03 pm : link
Especially if next season is a shortened season - no need to get cute, as there is no path to any quick turnaround with a weak draft and weak free agent class.
Only touch them for a bonafide star  
nygiants16 : 8/22/2020 12:08 pm : link
..
The concept  
Jon in NYC : 8/22/2020 12:10 pm : link
that no. 2 and no 8 have the same value is asinine.

Even Leon Rose said it a two player draft. Would I move up form 8 to 4? Probably not, unless it was for some insane bargain. But top 2 guarantees you LaMelo or Edwards who are top 5 players in any draft. Especially since it's unlikely to be extremely cost prohibitive.

Both players would have gone 4th last year easily.

Also makes perfect sense for the Warriors who likely can drop to 8 and get one of OO, Wiseman or Toppin.
Trade the dallas  
Italianju : 8/22/2020 12:48 pm : link
First to move up 8 spots is def a no brainer. Maybe just make it number one protected just in case, lol. I don’t think that is enough for gsw though. I think they would prefer a trade that gets them a player vs a future pick.
Move up 6 spots I meant  
Italianju : 8/22/2020 12:48 pm : link
......
I honestly  
Jon in NYC : 8/22/2020 12:53 pm : link
put the chances of us picking at 8 at under 50%. I bet 30% we package in a bigger trade for a "star" and 30% we package to move up.
RE: I honestly  
nygiants16 : 8/22/2020 1:00 pm : link
In comment 14954714 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
put the chances of us picking at 8 at under 50%. I bet 30% we package in a bigger trade for a "star" and 30% we package to move up.


I definitely see Rose being agressive
RE: RE: I honestly  
TommyWiseau : 8/22/2020 2:01 pm : link
In comment 14954720 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14954714 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


put the chances of us picking at 8 at under 50%. I bet 30% we package in a bigger trade for a "star" and 30% we package to move up.



I definitely see Rose being agressive


Agreed. He will try and make a move. Let's see what happens. The aggressive approach has burned us many a times but Mills and his stentch is gone is hopefully that changes
Augustin would br a good vet point  
nygiants16 : 8/22/2020 3:16 pm : link
can shoot the 3, run an offense, nothing crazy but steady
Nesmith  
Carl in CT : 8/22/2020 4:18 pm : link
Is he that bad on defense? Cause he sure checks the boxes as a quality shooter which is needed.
What  
Jon in NYC : 8/22/2020 7:31 pm : link
am I missing with Kira Lewis? Why isn't he being discussed more. Good defender, good shooter, good playmaker, elite speed.

RE: What  
nygiants16 : 8/22/2020 7:50 pm : link
In comment 14954802 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
am I missing with Kira Lewis? Why isn't he being discussed more. Good defender, good shooter, good playmaker, elite speed.


i was thinking the same thing, he is not over the top athletic bjt he does everything pretty damn good
I've seen a couple of mocks that had Chicago taking him  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 8/22/2020 7:52 pm : link
@ 4...any chance Avdija drops to 8 or is that wishful thinking?
Another  
Jon in NYC : 8/22/2020 8:04 pm : link
thought: If the Warriors are going to take Wiseman, why not offer them Mitch straight up for no 2? Proven NBA player who fills a massive need for them. Very low risk and definitely makes them a better team next year than Wiseman would.

We then grab LaMelo, then take either Wiseman or preferably OO at 8.
RE: RE: What  
Jon in NYC : 8/22/2020 8:05 pm : link
In comment 14954807 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14954802 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


am I missing with Kira Lewis? Why isn't he being discussed more. Good defender, good shooter, good playmaker, elite speed.




i was thinking the same thing, he is not over the top athletic bjt he does everything pretty damn good


I think his floor is probably Dennis Schroeder, but he's among the youngest players. If he can gain a bunch of muscle the ceiling is much higher.
RE: Another  
nygiants16 : 8/22/2020 8:39 pm : link
In comment 14954809 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
thought: If the Warriors are going to take Wiseman, why not offer them Mitch straight up for no 2? Proven NBA player who fills a massive need for them. Very low risk and definitely makes them a better team next year than Wiseman would.

We then grab LaMelo, then take either Wiseman or preferably OO at 8.


I mentioned this the other day and people sakd no way..people also need tk remember mitch is about to get paid
I think with Kira  
nygiants16 : 8/22/2020 8:40 pm : link
he is a score first point who can dish, which i am fine with...

I wonder if some execs see collin sexton
RE: Another  
bceagle05 : 8/22/2020 8:50 pm : link
In comment 14954809 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
thought: If the Warriors are going to take Wiseman, why not offer them Mitch straight up for no 2? Proven NBA player who fills a massive need for them. Very low risk and definitely makes them a better team next year than Wiseman would.

We then grab LaMelo, then take either Wiseman or preferably OO at 8.

I don’t think this is crazy at all. Charlotte needs a big, too - if GSW takes Wiseman, Charlotte may want Mitch. His contract status is an issue for the Knicks - right or wrong, the Knicks will set their sights higher than Mitch when it comes to handing out big money. And you’re not getting any hometown discounts either - his first contract was for peanuts.
Amazing how good CP3 still is.  
bceagle05 : 8/22/2020 8:55 pm : link
.
RE: I think with Kira  
Jon in NYC : 8/22/2020 10:04 pm : link
In comment 14954815 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
he is a score first point who can dish, which i am fine with...

I wonder if some execs see collin sexton


Same college and similar build but Lewis now is a far better shooter than Sexton will ever be.
Jon in nyc  
GMEN46 : 8/22/2020 10:15 pm : link
Did you just suggest the Knicks trading Mitch for the #2 pick for Melo ball, have you lost your mind? Mitch is on a cheap contract for 2 more years and his upside is insane. 0 interest. I asked the question the other day would you trade Mitch for the GS pick and the top 3 protected 2021 Minnesota pick and I still would probably not do that l, that is how big mitch’s upside is.
Mitch has 2 years left he will still be in roster  
GMEN46 : 8/22/2020 10:18 pm : link
For cheap during 2021 free agency. You get you free agents and then you go over the cap and pay Mitch the money he will deserve. Have you guys lost al logical thinking?
anyone else thing Stotts will be fired?  
nygiants16 : 8/22/2020 10:38 pm : link
his rotations are terrible
What is stotts doing?  
nygiants16 : 8/22/2020 11:00 pm : link
Nurkic is gassed take him oit
Looks like Portland is running on fumes.  
bceagle05 : 8/22/2020 11:42 pm : link
If I were Melo I’d strongly consider staying there next season.
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