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Lots of garbage football discussion out there

FatMan in Charlotte : 9/9/2020 10:29 am
I know there's a lot of airtime to fill, but the NFL Network really ratchets up the absurdity this time of year. Just this morning I've heard the following statements said:

- Kyler Murray has to be considered one of the top 3 players to be POY this season
- If the Cowboys can establish their power running game, they will challenge the Bucs for the NFC title
- The Texans are well positioned to win the AFC. A rejuvenated Johnson and a ferocious passrush from both sides with Watt and Mercilus will give them a top D
- With Cooper, Gallup and Lamb, the Cowboys are going to have 3 1,000 yard receivers this year
- If the Chiefs have a SB letdown, David Carr and the Raiders are going to be right there to take the AFC West

I get that these are just opinions, but man it would be nice to see some rooted in reality. It really all comes down to being dead air that idiots like myself just spent an hour watching, so I guess the joke's on me.
KC is obviously the team to beat in the AFC  
giants#1 : 9/9/2020 10:32 am : link
but I can see the Texans challenging them, especially if Watt stays healthy.

re: Cowboys - typical offseason love that they always get. That D is going to take a step back this year and not sure why many view McCarthy as a massive upgrade. Because he won 1 SB with Rodgers almost a decade ago?
I think it..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/9/2020 10:39 am : link
is funny that the Bucs are just handed the favorite tag by some analysts because they brought Brady in at the end of his career.
And to think we are a day away from Kick off.  
Dinger : 9/9/2020 10:40 am : link
I appreciated the distraction the draft provided during the height of quarantine(at least here in NY), but most of the 'league networks' during the off season put out content for the sake of content. I usually don't watch any of them during their respective off seasons except if there is a game i have interest in.

that said, FMiC, I think you can be excused for 'falling for it' as you like most of us are starved for distraction. Most other content is either so politicized or mind numbingly drivel, that those hot takes are things you can actually consider and say 'wow thats a stretch' and not worry about offending anyone.
When the NFL Network Came Out...  
Capt. Don : 9/9/2020 10:40 am : link
I truly had high hopes. I thought it would be something where I would learn schematically what was happening. All 22 type shit. Initially it was that but over the next several years it just devolved into ESPN.

People rave about this Good Morning Football show and I just dont see it. Its buffoonery.
The Saints  
DavidinBMNY : 9/9/2020 10:44 am : link
Are a team I wouldn't sleep on. Saints, Cowboys, 49ers would be the teams if they stay healthy will be really strong in the NFC. Cardinals seem to be the "hot" pick. I think they'll be fun to watch and may make the playoffs, but some of these other teams are a lot deeper.

The NFL Network is no different than ESPN with their talking heads  
figgy2989 : 9/9/2020 10:46 am : link
Going into a season which so much uncertainty swirling, these guys will throw shit against the wall and if it comes to fruition, they will pump their chests on how they correctly predicted it. When they are wrong, it will either be dismissed as if it was never said.

It's like being a local weatherman, they get it right and they are prancing around the studio, when they are wrong, they blame it on some unseen seismic shift in the pattern. They can't lose!
The Texans D - The Myth and Legend  
Mdgiantsfan : 9/9/2020 10:47 am : link
Watt and Mercilus have been in place for years and yet that D always comes up small!
#2 is funny  
UConn4523 : 9/9/2020 10:48 am : link
because the Cowboys have had a dominant power run game from a while now - when will they actually capitalize on it?

Yeah the Bucs stuff is crazy. Sure anything can happen but handing that team the Best in the NFC trophy is ridiculous.
i'm also not sold on Houston without Hopkins  
UConn4523 : 9/9/2020 10:49 am : link
Fuller is constantly hurt and Cooks isn't a #1 IMO. Watson is going to have take the next step and put that offense on his back - far from a guarantee.
RE: I think it..  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/9/2020 10:54 am : link
In comment 14965774 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
is funny that the Bucs are just handed the favorite tag by some analysts because they brought Brady in at the end of his career.


Living here, as much as I hate to admit it, Jameis really brought that team down on a weekly basis. Mike Evans is going to have a monster year for the simple fact that Godwin became Jameis favorite new toy and he had a bad tendency to lock onto one guy. Their front 7 on D is rock solid and better QB play they'll be able to take advantage of their advantage on the outside. I still think they are that dream team this year that is destined to win 9 games, but this year that's almost a guarantee to make playoffs with expanded format.
RE: The Texans D - The Myth and Legend  
giants#1 : 9/9/2020 11:02 am : link
In comment 14965789 Mdgiantsfan said:
Quote:
Watt and Mercilus have been in place for years and yet that D always comes up small!


Watt's only played >8 games once in the last 4 seasons. And they've been much better with Watt:

2019: 19th points, 28th yards, 8 games from Watt
2018: 4th points, 12th yards, 16 games from Watt
2017: 32nd pts, 20th yards, 5 games from Watt
2016: 11th pts, 1st yards, 3 games from Watt
2015: 7th pts, 3rd yards, 16 games from Watt
2014: 7th pts, 16th yards, 16 games from Watt

I'm actually enjoying Gil Brandt on Sirrus Xm  
gidiefor : Mod : 9/9/2020 11:08 am : link
I find him to be a very knowledgable and insightful analyst and he admits when he is prejudiced about something
RE: I'm actually enjoying Gil Brandt on Sirrus Xm  
Racer : 9/9/2020 11:14 am : link
In comment 14965820 gidiefor said:
Quote:
I find him to be a very knowledgable and insightful analyst and he admits when he is prejudiced about something


You left out 'connected'. The best media sources on the league imho are the ones with solid connections directly to current and former front office execs, scouts and coaches.
Did the NFLN mention the Giant Offense shouldn't be  
LBH15 : 9/9/2020 11:14 am : link
considered a strength because there is a rookie Right Tackle and an on-and-off starter at Left Tackle?
...  
90.Cal : 9/9/2020 11:15 am : link
17 - Wentz on pace to be MVP (2nd year QB)
18 - Mahomes wins MVP (2nd year QB)
19 - Lamar wins MVP (2nd year QB)
20 - I can see why they are saying Murray for MVP/OPOY... they are following a trend. Not too crazy IMO...

Neither is the take about Tampa winning the division or Dallas having three 1k WRs
.. you do realize they have Amari Cooper and CeeDee Lamb (1st round talent WRs) and Michael Gallup had like 1100+ yards last year... and Dak threw for nearly 5k yards so...

Who would have said Lamar was going to win MVP by a landslide this time last year? Nobody. That has to be similar to anyone saying right now that Kyler can win it this year. IMO
RE: RE: I'm actually enjoying Gil Brandt on Sirrus Xm  
gidiefor : Mod : 9/9/2020 11:18 am : link
In comment 14965836 Racer said:
Quote:
In comment 14965820 gidiefor said:


Quote:


I find him to be a very knowledgable and insightful analyst and he admits when he is prejudiced about something



You left out 'connected'. The best media sources on the league imho are the ones with solid connections directly to current and former front office execs, scouts and coaches.


yes -- he's definitely connected
What's with all the Kyler Murray hype?  
Pete in MD : 9/9/2020 11:21 am : link
One of the Giants' beats wrote today that he is "well ahead of Daniel Jones." Their passing stats were very similar last year. Both had rookie issues. I am biased but wouldn't say Murray is well ahead.
RE: What's with all the Kyler Murray hype?  
Giantsfan79 : 9/9/2020 11:25 am : link
In comment 14965849 Pete in MD said:
Quote:
One of the Giants' beats wrote today that he is "well ahead of Daniel Jones." Their passing stats were very similar last year. Both had rookie issues. I am biased but wouldn't say Murray is well ahead.


it's the fact that the last two MVPs have been won by QBs in their second years, the media thinks the trend will continue and Murray is next.
NFL Network Is Crap  
Trainmaster : 9/9/2020 11:26 am : link
Early on, with lots of Rich Eisen, it was pretty good. As others have said, NFLN devolved into ESPN 2.0 (i.e. very bad).

NFL Radio on Sirius is still pretty good. Much better analysis on NFL radio than NFLN.

It is all clickbait...  
EricJ : 9/9/2020 11:28 am : link
and nothing more. Even Peter King is worthless at this point.

We also have evolved to a place where printing the facts is not as important as being first to print.
Kyler Murray top 3 is generous,  
barens : 9/9/2020 11:28 am : link
but it's not crazy to think he could have a break out season, especially with Hopkins on their team.
RE: Kyler Murray top 3 is generous,  
UConn4523 : 9/9/2020 11:30 am : link
In comment 14965862 barens said:
Quote:
but it's not crazy to think he could have a break out season, especially with Hopkins on their team.


I feel the same. Crazy to call him that now, but all the ability tp actually do it.
RE: ...  
giants#1 : 9/9/2020 11:32 am : link
In comment 14965840 90.Cal said:
Quote:
17 - Wentz on pace to be MVP (2nd year QB)
18 - Mahomes wins MVP (2nd year QB)
19 - Lamar wins MVP (2nd year QB)
20 - I can see why they are saying Murray for MVP/OPOY... they are following a trend. Not too crazy IMO...

Neither is the take about Tampa winning the division or Dallas having three 1k WRs
.. you do realize they have Amari Cooper and CeeDee Lamb (1st round talent WRs) and Michael Gallup had like 1100+ yards last year... and Dak threw for nearly 5k yards so...

Who would have said Lamar was going to win MVP by a landslide this time last year? Nobody. That has to be similar to anyone saying right now that Kyler can win it this year. IMO


Not to take anything away from Lamar (or the others), but MVP is somewhat of a team award. A QB for an 8-8 team isn't winning MVP and I personally don't see AZ winning 10+ games this year. Lamar was incredible last year, but that BAL D was suffocating. No way he puts up the same numbers if that D doesn't consistently let them get out to early leads and stay run dominant all game.

As for Jones vs Murray, their per game passing numbers are remarkably similar:

Jones: 21.8 cmp 35.3 att 232.8 yds 1.8 TDs 0.9 INT 2.9 sk
Murray: 21.8 cmp 33.9 att 232.6 yds 1.3 TDs 0.8 INT 3.0 sk

The only significant edge is Jones in passing TDs.
RE: It is all clickbait...  
giants#1 : 9/9/2020 11:32 am : link
In comment 14965861 EricJ said:
Quote:
and nothing more. Even Peter King is worthless at this point.

We also have evolved to a place where printing the facts is not as important as being first to print.


How else do you get updates on Starbucks coffee flavors?
I'm too lazy  
giants#1 : 9/9/2020 11:35 am : link
but I bet if you look back at this time last year, most analysts felt it was Mayfield that would take the next step into the upper echelon of QBs and that LJ had fumbling issues that needed to be corrected.
I reduced what I watch from the NFL network  
ZogZerg : 9/9/2020 11:37 am : link
Not a lot of knowledgeable discussion.
Doesn't seem like much thought/work is put into the topics and they just spit out meaningless opinions.

I guess that's what this time of year is all about as they are just filling time.
When i did watch on air stuff  
GManinDC : 9/9/2020 11:40 am : link
It was NFL Matchup. That gave you play breakdowns and real matchups. Analyzed weaknesses and strengths and keys to games. hard core fanatic" type stuff..

These shows aren't for "hard-core fanatics". It's for the fan who only watches the games. Quick eye catching statements with no analysis. Easy to digest. Basic stats.


I can't remember the last time I watched a ESPN/FOX/CBS type sports "show".
I'm  
Pete in MD : 9/9/2020 11:51 am : link
pretty sure Porn Stache Minshew had better stats than Murray and Jones but nobody thinks he's the next MVP.
RE: I'm  
UConn4523 : 9/9/2020 12:44 pm : link
In comment 14965888 Pete in MD said:
Quote:
pretty sure Porn Stache Minshew had better stats than Murray and Jones but nobody thinks he's the next MVP.


I love Minshew, think he's great for the game. But he's got a limited skillset and has a pretty pathetic supporting cast.
KC caught magic last year  
larryflower37 : 9/9/2020 2:02 pm : link
They had so many come back wins in the playoffs/SB
I struggle to see them duplicate that this year.
They are going to be very good but everyone is working to figure them out.
It’s just peoples  
MtDizzle : 9/9/2020 2:30 pm : link
opinions/predictions it shouldn’t be taken that seriously.
RE: When the NFL Network Came Out...  
Route 9 : 9/9/2020 3:22 pm : link
In comment 14965778 Capt. Don said:
Quote:
I truly had high hopes. I thought it would be something where I would learn schematically what was happening. All 22 type shit. Initially it was that but over the next several years it just devolved into ESPN.

People rave about this Good Morning Football show and I just dont see it. Its buffoonery.


NFL Network was great until around 2010 or so.
It seems every analyst out there  
Leg of Theismann : 9/9/2020 5:51 pm : link
has Bucs vs. Cowboys as the NFC Championship game being a given.
1) re: the Cowboys, you would think 25 years straight of picking the Cowboys to go to the super bowl every year and then watching them go 8-8 would eventually teach the media a lesson? But no. It's like watching actual mental patients year in and year out get this wrong and just repeat themselves the very next year. It's mind-blowing.
2) I just have a hard time believing you take 7-9 like the Bucs and add a 58 year old Tom Brady and all of a sudden you have a super bowl winner? Seriously? Do people know nothing about football? How do "analysts" not know by now that winning a super bowl has very little to do with just who you have playing WR. You have to be able to block and tackle to win a super bowl. That's how football works.
RE: When the NFL Network Came Out...  
OC2.0 : 9/9/2020 8:46 pm : link
In comment 14965778 Capt. Don said:
Quote:
I truly had high hopes. I thought it would be something where I would learn schematically what was happening. All 22 type shit. Initially it was that but over the next several years it just devolved into ESPN.

People rave about this Good Morning Football show and I just dont see it. Its buffoonery.


Ur right, it is buffoonery.
RE: It seems every analyst out there  
section125 : 9/9/2020 9:04 pm : link
In comment 14966213 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
has Bucs vs. Cowboys as the NFC Championship game being a given.
1) re: the Cowboys, you would think 25 years straight of picking the Cowboys to go to the super bowl every year and then watching them go 8-8 would eventually teach the media a lesson? But no. It's like watching actual mental patients year in and year out get this wrong and just repeat themselves the very next year. It's mind-blowing.
2) I just have a hard time believing you take 7-9 like the Bucs and add a 58 year old Tom Brady and all of a sudden you have a super bowl winner? Seriously? Do people know nothing about football? How do "analysts" not know by now that winning a super bowl has very little to do with just who you have playing WR. You have to be able to block and tackle to win a super bowl. That's how football works.


Agree with both of your points. Did they watch Brady last year? Yes he did not have anybody to catch the ball, but if he did he could not get it to them over 15 yards...he is physically slow and his arm is not very strong anymore.
In no particular order the Saints, Niners, Seattle  
djm : 9/9/2020 10:02 pm : link
And Bucs all seem to have more potential than any teams from the East, but who knows for sure. Bucs have a lot of talent. Look at their roster and they have arians and Brady. I ain’t writing them off. It’s a little premature to pencil them in but they are very good on paper.

There are always gonna be multiple teams that disappoint and exceed expectations. Every year. Some teams get old overnight while others mature and take that next step. As for some of the East, Philly has guts (I hate saying that) and wentz can be very good, but they seem to be slowly taking on water with age and attrition. The oline? WRs? I see Philly hanging around but injures could really hurt them as they lack depth already in some spots.

Dallas is just weird to me. Explosive elite talent on offense. Dak is very very consistent but a somewhat limited ceiling if that’s fair, he’s good, but I don’t know if dak will ever be that postseason assassin. He won’t hurt you though. Their D is the wild card to me. Decent front 7 maybe even good, hows that secondary. And the OL is slowly getting a little worse. Lost the center, the replacement is good but they still lost an all pro center. Now their depth gets tested even more. Then there’s is McCarthy...is he really going to get more out of the offense? I think Garrett did an underrated job there. McCarthy an interesting fit. I hope he fails massively and gloriously.

If the giants can play some football for once and make life harder for Philly and Dallas, the west and south will wrap up home field by mid December.

RE: I think it..  
montanagiant : 9/9/2020 11:19 pm : link
In comment 14965774 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
is funny that the Bucs are just handed the favorite tag by some analysts because they brought Brady in at the end of his career.

I really don't get that at all. Also, the whole Arizona is stacked crap is amazing
Arizona..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/9/2020 11:49 pm : link
and LV are two teams that tend to get overrated every year, and as the "chic" picks, nobody really fesses up to being fooled.

The idea Murray is going to lift that team up is funny. They gained Hopkins, but they have the corpse of Fitzgerald, the same core D that has underperformed and they have Kenyon Drake. It is almost as if these pundits picked the Giants to be a contender. They'd be laughed at for it.

Look at last season. The Colts, Raiders and Browns were going to take huge leaps forward. Remember the talk of the Browns being a SB contender with OBJ and Mayfield?Heck, some thought the Lions would under Patricia. And when they don't - there isn't a mea culpa.
I just perused Arizona's depth chart  
BlueLou'sBack : 9/10/2020 5:11 am : link
and if the Giants were lining up that OL featuring DJ Huumphries and Kevin Bechum as the starting OTs BBI would be imploding.

And Fitzgerald isn't just toast, he's burnt toast at this point.

Murray to Hopkins should be a fun watch though.
Larry Fitzgerald is one of my favorite all time players. Still wants  
LBH15 : 9/10/2020 9:02 am : link
to bring it and still can.

https://www.azcardinals.com/news/larry-fitzgerald-practice-effort-leadership-stands-out-17-years
The pregame on..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/13/2020 12:00 pm : link
NFL Network has been amusing to say the least. Among the things said include the continued lovefest for TB:

- Barring a complete derailment, they are headed for the playoffs
- The most improved team in the league
- Bruce Arians almost pulled off a great season with Winston, now you give him Brady (what great season is this??)
- "Bruce Arians told me Gronk is moving great out there. Not even like 3 years ago. More like 7 years ago"

RE: The pregame on..  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/13/2020 12:35 pm : link
In comment 14968547 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
NFL Network has been amusing to say the least. Among the things said include the continued lovefest for TB:

- Barring a complete derailment, they are headed for the playoffs
- The most improved team in the league
- Bruce Arians almost pulled off a great season with Winston, now you give him Brady (what great season is this??)
- "Bruce Arians told me Gronk is moving great out there. Not even like 3 years ago. More like 7 years ago"


I live here and the hype machine is hilarious. I hate the fact that I think this may be the one hype machine that may turn out to at least make the playoffs, probably finish with 9 wins. Front 7 is solid and as much as I think Brady was more a product of BB he knows exactly what he was doing for his legacy going to play for Arians and these studs they have on the outside here. No chance Brady left NE if an opportunity like this didn't present itself. Low risk high reward for his legacy.

As far as Arizona is concerned, they've gone a long way to fixing their defense with Isiah Simmons. If you thought the Giants were bad covering the middle of the field, they looked like the 2001 Ravens compared to Arizona. Their offensive line stinks, but the whole point of what they are trying to implement over there devalues the offensive line a ton. Will it work? Maybe, who the hell knows, but I see them as an 8 win team this year.
I think..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/13/2020 12:46 pm : link
TB could make the playoffs, but they took a marginal team and added Brady and Gronk. That really shouldn't elevate them to a favorite for the SB status. On the NFL Network, there were 8 predictions for the SB. Half of them had TB representing the NFC.
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