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NFT: Pronmans hockey organizational rankings

SJGiant : 9/11/2020 9:48 am
Are done on the Athletic. The NY Rangers are number one ranked for those 22 and under. I am not linking the article because it’s a site requiring subscription.

One note is that I was disappointed in K’Andre Miller 8. K’Andre Miller, D, Wisconsin-Big Ten

Assessment:

Miller was an all-situations player again for Wisconsin, and one of the top defensemen for Team USA at the world juniors. His offensive totals took a step back, but I saw a player who had confidence with the puck and made plays at both ends of the rink. Miller can make a strong first pass, and has blue line poise to find passing lanes and create chances. He can get too cute at times and be risky with the puck, but I think he sees the game well. He’s a big-time athlete with his size, strength and skating, which projects to be able to win battles and skate with NHLers easily. His offensive game has inconsistencies, with stretches where he doesn’t do much with the puck coupled with very good moments, which is why despite his high grades I’m not very certain he could be a top-four defenseman.

The fact that he is not considered a top 4 defensive prospect is disappointing.
Miller  
pjcas18 : 9/11/2020 9:55 am : link
has only been playing D for 3 or 4 years. I'd wait and see on any projections, he's just scratching the surface IMO and fans need to be patient.
I do think  
pjcas18 : 9/11/2020 10:05 am : link
though despite your disappointment in Miller, there is a lot to like with the Rangers "farm" - and this is before Lafreniere. Back to back #1 prospect rankings from Pronman.

Lundqvist has flipped with Miller over the past year and IMO is a player Rangers fans will love.
RE: I do think  
SJGiant : 9/11/2020 10:20 am : link
In comment 14967345 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
though despite your disappointment in Miller, there is a lot to like with the Rangers "farm" - and this is before Lafreniere. Back to back #1 prospect rankings from Pronman.

Lundqvist has flipped with Miller over the past year and IMO is a player Rangers fans will love.


Yes. Lundqvist was a pleasant surprise in the article. I am very pleased with the direction the Rangers have taken to first rebuild the organization and then build through the draft and not take any shortcuts.
Miller is a top 4 D prospect...  
vonritz : 9/11/2020 10:24 am : link
In fact he's the #3 D on the list. He is not ahead of Nils or Fox at this point. I don't see what the problem is.
RE: Miller is a top 4 D prospect...  
SJGiant : 9/11/2020 10:31 am : link
In comment 14967357 vonritz said:
Quote:
In fact he's the #3 D on the list. He is not ahead of Nils or Fox at this point. I don't see what the problem is.


What I meant was Miller wasn’t considered a top 4 Defenseman not that he isn’t a top 4 prospect defenseman in the Ranger organization
RE: RE: Miller is a top 4 D prospect...  
vonritz : 9/11/2020 10:37 am : link
In comment 14967364 SJGiant said:
Quote:
In comment 14967357 vonritz said:


Quote:


In fact he's the #3 D on the list. He is not ahead of Nils or Fox at this point. I don't see what the problem is.



What I meant was Miller wasn’t considered a top 4 Defenseman not that he isn’t a top 4 prospect defenseman in the Ranger organization


Oh, alright. My bad. Yeah, that threw me for a loop too.
Yikes  
Andy in Halifax : 9/11/2020 10:52 am : link
I think the Rangers have a great system but Vancouver has player who could win a Hart and a player who could win a Norris... NEXT YEAR. Rangers #1 is a guy who had a dreadful season last year. He's young, and I like him, but if that's your #1 I'm not sure how they are ahead of a team like Vancouver. I'd probably put LA ahead too.
I appreciate Pronmsn  
Phil in LA : 9/11/2020 11:33 am : link
But he puts too much emphasis on speed and never talks about agility which could be more important.
Kaapo  
Phil in LA : 9/11/2020 11:34 am : link
Was the Rangers best player in the bubble.
RE: Yikes  
pjcas18 : 9/11/2020 11:40 am : link
In comment 14967377 Andy in Halifax said:
Quote:
I think the Rangers have a great system but Vancouver has player who could win a Hart and a player who could win a Norris... NEXT YEAR. Rangers #1 is a guy who had a dreadful season last year. He's young, and I like him, but if that's your #1 I'm not sure how they are ahead of a team like Vancouver. I'd probably put LA ahead too.


Kakko was 18 years old last year for almost the whole season. Pettersson, who I love, didn't even play in the NHL until he was 20. People need to be patient.

But more to the point, I wouldn't be upset with someone having the #1 vs #3 rated system. Probably not a ton of separation. I am eagerly looking forward to Nils Hoglander hitting the NHL though. Such a creative dynamic player.

I do think next year this time your Sens could see the top spot or top 3.


Rangers are likely  
Phil in LA : 9/11/2020 11:42 am : link
to have a new number 1 in 25 days.
Also  
Phil in LA : 9/11/2020 11:55 am : link
Pronman didn’t mention C Justin Richards, who some others have in the Ranger Top 10.
RE: Also  
pjcas18 : 9/11/2020 11:56 am : link
In comment 14967417 Phil in LA said:
Quote:
Pronman didn’t mention C Justin Richards, who some others have in the Ranger Top 10.


too old for Pronman's list.
.  
arcarsenal : 9/11/2020 12:14 pm : link
Whether it pans out remains to be seen, but the Rangers are executing this rebuild almost to perfection. Really couldn't have scripted it a whole lot better, so I'm thrilled with the direction here and think the near future is very, very bright.
RE: .  
pjcas18 : 9/11/2020 12:32 pm : link
In comment 14967435 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Whether it pans out remains to be seen, but the Rangers are executing this rebuild almost to perfection. Really couldn't have scripted it a whole lot better, so I'm thrilled with the direction here and think the near future is very, very bright.


yeah that focus on having ping pong balls with your logo on them get selected at the right time to help you as a team move up beyond the spot you "earned" to draft Kakko and Lafreniere was a solid strategy - more teams should do it.
RE: RE: .  
SJGiant : 9/11/2020 12:38 pm : link
In comment 14967442 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14967435 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Whether it pans out remains to be seen, but the Rangers are executing this rebuild almost to perfection. Really couldn't have scripted it a whole lot better, so I'm thrilled with the direction here and think the near future is very, very bright.



yeah that focus on having ping pong balls with your logo on them get selected at the right time to help you as a team move up beyond the spot you "earned" to draft Kakko and Lafreniere was a solid strategy - more teams should do it.


To be fair, I believe we are talking about not spending lots of money on several free agents to speed up the rebuild process. Yes Panarin was an expensive free agent, as well as Trouba, but I still feel they are building using their young players.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 9/11/2020 12:38 pm : link
In comment 14967442 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14967435 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Whether it pans out remains to be seen, but the Rangers are executing this rebuild almost to perfection. Really couldn't have scripted it a whole lot better, so I'm thrilled with the direction here and think the near future is very, very bright.



yeah that focus on having ping pong balls with your logo on them get selected at the right time to help you as a team move up beyond the spot you "earned" to draft Kakko and Lafreniere was a solid strategy - more teams should do it.


You're right, pj.. those are the only two things that have happened. They didn't sign anyone or actually draft anyone else. The rebuild is limited to those two, isolated events.

Good call.
RE: RE: RE: .  
pjcas18 : 9/11/2020 12:41 pm : link
In comment 14967447 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 14967442 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


In comment 14967435 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Whether it pans out remains to be seen, but the Rangers are executing this rebuild almost to perfection. Really couldn't have scripted it a whole lot better, so I'm thrilled with the direction here and think the near future is very, very bright.



yeah that focus on having ping pong balls with your logo on them get selected at the right time to help you as a team move up beyond the spot you "earned" to draft Kakko and Lafreniere was a solid strategy - more teams should do it.



You're right, pj.. those are the only two things that have happened. They didn't sign anyone or actually draft anyone else. The rebuild is limited to those two, isolated events.

Good call.


Without those two events - Kakko and Lafreniere - do you still feel like this rebuild is being executed perfectly?
.  
arcarsenal : 9/11/2020 12:41 pm : link
Lotto luck is part of rebuilds. The Penguins didn't acquire Sidney Crosby because they were savvy. But you can't just draft Crosby/Malkin and win Stanley Cups. You have to actually put the right team around them - which the Penguins managed to do more than once.

So yeah, the Rangers were lucky on Kakko/LaFreniere - they've also made a lot of decisions that had nothing to do with luck that have them where they are now.

Apologies for being happy with the direction of the hockey team I root for.
Being so sensitive  
pjcas18 : 9/11/2020 12:44 pm : link
probably means you may need another break.

If Pens fans said "we executed our rebuild perfectly" after Crosby and Malkin I could only imagine the eye rolls from Rangers fans.

That is how non-Rangers fans view your comment.

It's ok to admit there is luck involved and not everything was part of some brilliant master rebuild plan.
.  
arcarsenal : 9/11/2020 12:44 pm : link
And yeah, if you exclude those two players, I am still very happy with other draft selections - i.e.. Chytl. I am very happy with signings like Adam Fox.

Panarin changed the team. Trading for Mika was a huge win. Tony D'Angelo was a really good acquisition whether he sticks around or not. I thought Trouba was a good signing.

So, yes. I think what they're doing has been great and I think they'll be very competitive in the very near future.

No need to be a dick.
RE: Being so sensitive  
arcarsenal : 9/11/2020 12:46 pm : link
In comment 14967452 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
probably means you may need another break.

If Pens fans said "we executed our rebuild perfectly" after Crosby and Malkin I could only imagine the eye rolls from Rangers fans.

That is how non-Rangers fans view your comment.

It's ok to admit there is luck involved and not everything was part of some brilliant master rebuild plan.


What part of "lotto luck is part of rebuilds" didn't you understand?

I might not be the sensitive one here.
Ok I'm being a dick, lol  
pjcas18 : 9/11/2020 12:46 pm : link
I made a sarcastic comment and your reaction is like a killed your puppy.

Maybe you need thicker skin.
For what it's worth  
Professor Falken : 9/11/2020 12:48 pm : link
JD said Miller was "outstanding" at summer camp. 8:40 mark of this video.
JD - ( New Window )
.  
arcarsenal : 9/11/2020 12:49 pm : link
Oooh.. another comment about me being too sensitive.

Want to try a 3rd iteration of the same hollow critique or are we done here?
.  
arcarsenal : 9/11/2020 12:49 pm : link
My response to your sarcasm was... more sarcasm. That's not acting like you "killed my puppy" lol.

You're projecting heavy here. Take a break. :)
RE: .  
pjcas18 : 9/11/2020 12:51 pm : link
In comment 14967458 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Oooh.. another comment about me being too sensitive.

Want to try a 3rd iteration of the same hollow critique or are we done here?


maybe you can re-read the thread and see who is sensitive. If you still feel like I am the one being sensitive just say so and then I will apologize no questions asked (insincerely but I'll do it to cheer you up), if you feel like it's you, then maybe take some time and reflect on why that it is.

.  
arcarsenal : 9/11/2020 12:58 pm : link
I'm not really interested in going back and forth with another grown man about who is and isn't sensitive or continuing to derail the thread.

If it bugs you so much that a Rangers fan is happy with their rebuild that you need to mince words and make a big deal over a completely innocuous post, it's probably you who has the problem here. Not me.

When I start picking apart your posts because I have nothing better to do, feel free to let me know.

I'll let you have the last word if you'd like.
If you don't  
pjcas18 : 9/11/2020 1:02 pm : link
want people to comment on your post or have an opinion about it then why post it?

You made a silly comment, I called you out on it, just say - you used a poor choice of words and move on.

Or just move on, but don't try and attack me because of your poor choice of words - that defensiveness is what makes you look worse.

good talk.
Good luck is the residue of  
Phil in LA : 9/11/2020 1:51 pm : link
design. Didn't like the Rangers taking Linblom in the second two years ago, but otherwise I'm pretty pleased with the picks they've been making. I hope they realize that this year's UFA market is crap, but the draft is deep and that they trade for more picks.
Rangers and Devils  
Metnut : 9/11/2020 1:58 pm : link
have really nice systems and have proved that winning draft lotteries is a great strategy for building out the farm.

Fans of both teams have a lot to be excited about, but time will tell whether they can put contenders together. A few years ago, fans of Buffalo, Toronto, Edmonton and Florida were really excited about their highly touted farm systems also.
RE: Rangers and Devils  
Metnut : 9/11/2020 2:00 pm : link
In comment 14967506 Metnut said:
Quote:
have really nice systems and have proved that winning draft lotteries is a great strategy for building out the farm.

Fans of both teams have a lot to be excited about, but time will tell whether they can put contenders together. A few years ago, fans of Buffalo, Toronto, Edmonton and Florida were really excited about their highly touted farm systems also.


And joking aside, the Rangers have gone about the rebuild really smartly from an asset management standpoint. The harder part now is developing these kids and turning it all into a machine to compete.

.  
arcarsenal : 9/11/2020 2:11 pm : link
The Rangers were playing significantly better right before the league had to hit the pause button - and that was without much of anything from Kakko.

Pretty much any successful rebuild is going to have an element of luck involved. Most successes in sports are aided by luck and fortune at key moments. I think that's generally understood and accepted.

I also don't think there's anything wrong with saying the Rangers have done a fantastic job in most facets of the rebuild that they've been able to directly control. They're not winding up at the top of these lists because of two ping pong balls.

They've made small missteps here and there, but all things considered, yeah - I think they've done a great job and I think it's a good position to be in going forward.
RE: RE: .  
Kyle in NY : 9/11/2020 4:35 pm : link
In comment 14967442 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14967435 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Whether it pans out remains to be seen, but the Rangers are executing this rebuild almost to perfection. Really couldn't have scripted it a whole lot better, so I'm thrilled with the direction here and think the near future is very, very bright.



yeah that focus on having ping pong balls with your logo on them get selected at the right time to help you as a team move up beyond the spot you "earned" to draft Kakko and Lafreniere was a solid strategy - more teams should do it.


Strange post. Surely being in a position to potentially get some lottery luck WAS part of the Rangers plan. More teams probably should do it instead of toiling in the middle of the league. But who hasn't built an elite organization without getting lottery luck? Lafreniere was a helluva break, no doubt there. But they're #1 on this list without accounting for Laf.

I think they moved up 3 spots to get the Kakko pick. It wasn't that crazy. They had that chance because they decided to rebuild. There are several players listed in their top 10 besides Kakko with high end/very good/legit NHL player tags that were drafted with the extra picks they acquired because they made the decision to sell off and stop trying to scrap for the last playoff spot with a team that had missed its window.

We'll see how some of the salary cap decisions play out, it's a mixed bag there. But as far as acquiring young assets, the Rangers have executed their rebuild well regardless of the luck they've had
Player development  
Phil in LA : 9/11/2020 5:57 pm : link
is rarely linear. So even the best systems will have their ups and downs.
What the Devils did was skillful; what the Rangers did was lucky BS  
Kyle_ : 9/11/2020 6:01 pm : link
Obv.
RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
BrettNYG10 : 9/11/2020 6:06 pm : link
In comment 14967449 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14967447 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


In comment 14967442 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


In comment 14967435 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Whether it pans out remains to be seen, but the Rangers are executing this rebuild almost to perfection. Really couldn't have scripted it a whole lot better, so I'm thrilled with the direction here and think the near future is very, very bright.



yeah that focus on having ping pong balls with your logo on them get selected at the right time to help you as a team move up beyond the spot you "earned" to draft Kakko and Lafreniere was a solid strategy - more teams should do it.



You're right, pj.. those are the only two things that have happened. They didn't sign anyone or actually draft anyone else. The rebuild is limited to those two, isolated events.

Good call.



Without those two events - Kakko and Lafreniere - do you still feel like this rebuild is being executed perfectly?


The lottery luck has changed my optimism regarding the success of the rebuild but not my views on the quality of the execution.

I didn't like the Shattenkirk buyout. I don't really like the Trouba trade (but I was fine with it at the time, so may be a bit unfair). I would have preferred to trade Kreider this past deadline. Other than that, I'm happy with how things are going.

Also, without the lottery luck, I'd probably be less enthused about the Panarin signing. The Rangers have a chance to build a contender within 2-3 years now. If they were picking in the 5-10 range in the 2019 and 2020 drafts, I'd probably think we were 4-5 years away and not like the Panarin signing. Feels weird to say with a Hart contender, but the goal is to win Cups.
That was my point Brett  
pjcas18 : 9/11/2020 6:16 pm : link
there were quite a few fans on here who did not want to sign Panarin at north of $10M, so a lot of buyer's change of mind on Panarin and remorse on Trouba (I liked both signings - then and now).

And the lottery luck changed a lot of people's outlook.

Moving up 4 spots to take Kakko (neck and neck #1/#2) vs picking 6th and getting Turcotte or Seider or someone like that is massive - and then moving up from 9th or 15th or whatever to land Lafreniere is even more massive.

Without Kakko the Rangers aren't the #1 farm system (he is their #1 prospect) - doesn't mean they don't have a good outlook or crop of prospects but it has a ripple effect, changes the window to compete and puts the Panarin and Trouba signings and even Kreider extension in a different light.

Shesterkin really IMO isn't even part of the rebuild. He was a 4th round lottery ticket 6 years ago when Hank still had 8 years left on his contract or something like that. If you're looking at that and claiming flawless execution of a rebuild I only have to say LOL.

Anyway, my main point was the Rangers luck in the draft lottery changed everything and that's not execution, it's luck, be happy with it, sure, no doubt about it, but I just don't give credit to people for luck like that.

You know  
PaulN : 9/12/2020 9:43 am : link
Everyone is right and wrong, no this rebuild has not been perfect, far from it, no rebuild is perfect, and yes, every successful rebuild has luck involved, we made some great trades, some good ones, and a few bad ones, made some great draft picks, some good and some bad, are we number 1, its subjective, but are we doing good, do we have a good plan, and are we sticking with it, do we have the right management in place, I believe we do and that is far more important. With Sather thankfully gone and JD replacing him, and with Gorton and Drury here, the Rangers now have a great front office, and one look at the franchises they left and the shape they are in and yes the draft luck we have had, I am saying with confidence, we are in the best shape we have ever been in or at least since the late 60's early 70's, when we did nt have luck.
Back in  
PaulN : 9/12/2020 10:08 am : link
The early 70's the Rangers lost patience with a highly rated prospect, I believe he was 21 when they decided to trade him, it was possibly the worst trade in franchise history, they traded Rick Middleton, so patience is a must, and Kakko is going to be a great player, and watch for Nils Lundqvit, he is going to be a really good one, and I will give you two dark horses to break the lineup next year, Morgan Barron and Matthem Robertson, the latter is really developing nicely, so don't kill the Rangers if they move on from DeAngelo, Lundqvist might become the better player and will be cost controlled, because Fox is going nowhere and Trouba is an absolute neccessity, and was our best player in that 3 game playoff qualification. A big right handed defenseman who hits and has offensive upside and can skate with a really good shot is rare. Rangers need to keep or add top 100 picks especially top 50 picks in this draft, its a good one.
Well said PaulN  
pjcas18 : 9/13/2020 11:34 am : link
In other Rangers news, Kravtsov looks bigger, like he filled out.

Here he is with a solid zone entry, nice dish to the wing, and slick skate to stick on the rebound for a nice goal
link - ( New Window )
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