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Daniel Jones

armstead98 : 9/11/2020 11:22 am
I started a thread about Dexter Lawrence, who I think is the most important player on D but there's been relatively little discussion of. I thought I'd do the same for our most important player, period.

Due to the lack of preseason there's been relatively little discussion of Daniel Jones heading into season 2. Jones blew away all skeptics with his rookie performance. He clearly belongs in the league and now it's just a question of what his ceiling is.

Many quarterbacks make a leap in their second year. For example the Mannings both had big losing records their rookie year with middling stats, year two saw 13-3 and 11-5 with big jumps in their stats. More recently Mahomes and Lamar had explosive breakout seasons in their second year after not getting much playing time their rookie years.

The Giants prediction thread had a lot of 6-10 in there and given the past few years I can't really say that's wrong. But what I think people are not necessarily accounting for is a massive leap from our QB. As we all know, this is a QB league and Giants have a promising one. Unlike the others listed above, Jones actually had an impressive rookie year when it comes to his stats.

Am I the only one who is expecting (hoping for?) a big season from DJ? 4500 yards, 30+ TDs, & lt;15 INTs, etc., that kind of thing. Obviously the most important stat is Ws which is the biggest question mark.

Personally I can't wait to see what he looks like on Monday. The Steelers have a good D but a good QB beats a good D these days and we might just have one of the best on his way up.
Daniel Jones  
M.S. : 9/11/2020 11:31 am : link

Showed a lot of good things as a rookie, and now he's learning an entirely new system. Will he take a step back or a step forward? And what is the next step up for him aside from cutting down on his fumbling?

What do we actually have in Daniel Jones?

Is he a really good system QB when everything around him is up and running? Or, can he ever elevate his game to the point where we can say Daniel Jones has a little magic to his game? How about a little more maneuvering in the pocket rather standing like a statue? We have no guarantee in writing about the future course of our second year QB.

One prediction: If Daniel Jones doesn't break the habit of holding the ball at his waste when he sets up to throw, we could see more of the same -- fumbles.
I can't comment  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/11/2020 11:46 am : link
on Peyton but Eli also had two very important pieces added to helping his performance. Plax and McKenzie. The Giants were very balanced on O.

Just a high school QB but I will hold off on criticizing his holding on to the ball as poor anticipation for now. I think part of the issue was a poor running game forcing terrible down and distance situations and no game changing receiver. So I think it may have been him trying to make a play and it was challenging to find a good target. Shurmur did him no favors putting him in those situations imo.
I don't expect 4500 yds  
Mike in Boston : 9/11/2020 12:08 pm : link
I hope and expect DJ to do well and improve on the ball security, but I don't think yardage totals will be so high. I expect we will lean more on the running game. Barkley is a top talent. I think our receivers will be fine, but none of them is in the conversation for the best receiver in the league. Barkley is on that level.
Jones could make a nice leap this year but people don't normally  
LBH15 : 9/11/2020 12:11 pm : link
predict Massive Leaps like you are suggesting.

Seems like he is very focused on developing his game and becoming a leader which is great. His offensive targets seem pretty healthy going into the new season which is good. His OL is going to give up a lot of pressure but the pieces are better than last year given more experience playing together.

Key parts of his game that need development include better pocket awareness, ball security, reading zone coverages and adjusting plays at LOS. Improve on these things and the guy has a nice future.
It can't be stated enough  
Gordo : 9/11/2020 12:13 pm : link
how important of a hire Garrett was. I think he will do wonders for DJ. Say what you want about Dak, Garrett made him a better QB.

It's refreshing to know that DJ is surrounded by competent coaches and staff. This year may not be filled with lots of wins, maybe 6-10/7-9 but I feel like we are laying the foundation for a solid competitive team.
Almost unfair to expect a breakout yr from him with this OL  
Tony in Tampa : 9/11/2020 12:15 pm : link
You are likely going to have to wait till the first 3 or 4 games for this line to gel. If he survives, cleans up his ball security issues and the line is at least decent then he has a chance to have a better than avg year.
Garrett  
NoPeanutz : 9/11/2020 12:17 pm : link
made Romo look like a top QB.
I honestly think we see a severe regression  
colin : 9/11/2020 12:18 pm : link
This year. His inability to read zone and lack of pocket awareness are damning, and I don’t know if those are skills you can learn at this stage. Cutliffe and Shurmur (say what you will, he was still a QB whisperer) couldn’t fix those two MAJOR issues in his game, I can’t imagine he rights the ship with a new offense and an abridged preseason. I want to be wrong, but I’m afraid we may have a pretty big “Trevor Lawrence” question to answer at the end of the season.
I'm not sold on him yet  
Joey in VA : 9/11/2020 12:22 pm : link
He looks the part, sounds good when he's talking and interviewed but I don't know if he has the innate sense of how to play the position. One of the beat writers mentioned him being a robo QB, meaning he's ideal size wise, arm wise, sounds good etc. but does he have the ability to win a game for you when things are breaking down? Eli absolutely had that and it showed early on, I don't know if DJ has that.
He's better than Eli was at this point of their careers.  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/11/2020 12:35 pm : link
Let's see what happens this year. Would help if the OLine improves.
Colin and Joey  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/11/2020 12:41 pm : link
I don't think Garrett take OC job if he felt the same way. I hope for the Giants sake you both are very wrong.
.  
GiantEgo : 9/11/2020 12:44 pm : link
BBI always brightens my day. God, this thread is hilarious!
RE: Colin and Joey  
colin : 9/11/2020 12:49 pm : link
In comment 14967448 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
I don't think Garrett take OC job if he felt the same way. I hope for the Giants sake you both are very wrong.


I hope I am too. And I’m certainly not pretending to know more than the next guy, but the weaknesses are evident. I’m just unsure of whether or not they’re surmountable. If he can’t fix em, and there’s more film on it, he could turn into a TO machine.
RE: I'm not sold on him yet  
cjac : 9/11/2020 12:49 pm : link
In comment 14967440 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
He looks the part, sounds good when he's talking and interviewed but I don't know if he has the innate sense of how to play the position. One of the beat writers mentioned him being a robo QB, meaning he's ideal size wise, arm wise, sounds good etc. but does he have the ability to win a game for you when things are breaking down? Eli absolutely had that and it showed early on, I don't know if DJ has that.


i'm concerned with his feel for the pocket, he seems to just look downfield and doesnt know when he needs to slide or step up. (hence the fumbles)
Nothing wrong with a wait and see attiitude  
GManinDC : 9/11/2020 12:52 pm : link
The rush to be "right"on a player takes away from honest discussion. We have no idea what DJ is gonna be.

IMO, it takes about 3 years to see the true growth of a QB, unless he's in the untra talented Mahomes territory.

Guys like Watson, Goff, Wentz, Jimmy G are still question marks because they have not been consistent. It took Alex Smith quite a few years to develop.

After 8 games, there are comments that DJ is the best QB in the divison already...

JJ and Jason Garrett  
Dnew15 : 9/11/2020 12:54 pm : link
are going to turn this team into power running - protect the football - limit mistakes - heavy play-action team (I think:)

I think they will protect DJ as much as they can with that young offensive line.

It will be good see the Giants run the ball on 2 and 6 again like back in the old days instead of going empty backfield.

Of course there was no way to know...  
BamaBlue : 9/11/2020 12:55 pm : link
this season would be so much different than any other. The decision by Shurmur to play Daniel Jones early last season has turned-out to be very good for the 2020 Giants. The experience Jones got will allow him and the Giants to be better prepared.

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometime...
RE: I honestly think we see a severe regression  
M.S. : 9/11/2020 12:58 pm : link
In comment 14967439 colin said:
Quote:
This year. His inability to read zone and lack of pocket awareness are damning, and I don’t know if those are skills you can learn at this stage. Cutliffe and Shurmur (say what you will, he was still a QB whisperer) couldn’t fix those two MAJOR issues in his game, I can’t imagine he rights the ship with a new offense and an abridged preseason. I want to be wrong, but I’m afraid we may have a pretty big “Trevor Lawrence” question to answer at the end of the season.


Colin -- Yep. This is what has been gnawing at me about Daniel Jones' game since last season.

I don't think a QB can be "taught" pocket awareness. Either you've got the eyes to look downfield and simultaneously "feel" pressure, or you don't!

Daniel Jones will stand tall and strong in the pocket, but we haven't seen a lot of stepping up and/or sliding around in the pocket. Unfortunately, he takes a lot of hits he never saw coming!

The thing that gives me hope about Daniel Jones is how many passes  
Blue21 : 9/11/2020 1:04 pm : link
for TD's and how many yards he threw for without all his receivers healthy at once and for that matter many injured at the same time. And he did it in 13 games. If he plays like last year and all 16 games, 4000 plus yards is definitely possible. Keep the fumbles down as been said a hundred times and the Giants have something there.
RE: I'm not sold on him yet  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/11/2020 1:08 pm : link
In comment 14967440 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
He looks the part, sounds good when he's talking and interviewed but I don't know if he has the innate sense of how to play the position. One of the beat writers mentioned him being a robo QB, meaning he's ideal size wise, arm wise, sounds good etc. but does he have the ability to win a game for you when things are breaking down? Eli absolutely had that and it showed early on, I don't know if DJ has that.


I dont disagree with you at all, but I thought how he won the tampa game was a hopeful point. A robot QB doesn't make the running play to score that TD. I'd like to see more of that.
I want to see him in  
Dave on the UWS : 9/11/2020 1:12 pm : link
Garrett’s system. I suspect his processing will improve, reading defenses will improve. Not holding the ball and subjecting himself to hits is a big question mark. Keep in mind, even with the deficiencies you guys are talking about, he still had a 2:1 TD to INT ratio as a rookie, better than any season Eli had in that respect.
.  
Danny Kanell : 9/11/2020 1:18 pm : link
I'm generally a pessimist with the Giants by nature but I would be surprised (To put it lightly) if Jones doesn't become a top tier QB soon. Maybe as early as this season if things break right around him. I wasn't nearly as sold on Eli this early on as I am with Jones. There is just something about him that screams winner to me.
M.S.  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/11/2020 1:21 pm : link
What pocket could he step up into or which side should he step towards? It has been pretty slim pickings for years now when the OL provided a good pocket and normally pressure came from everywhere.

Here is what he dealt with last year. Team can't run very well. Receivers are not game changers (yet).

So a repeated occurrence was 3rd down and 9/10 yards to go. Defense does not need to send extra rushes (bad OL) and the receivers can't get open downfield. So what then? Checkdown and punt? Nobody knows if he was trying to just make a play. Let's give it time with Garrett.
RE: .  
DonQuixote : 9/11/2020 1:29 pm : link
In comment 14967478 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
I'm generally a pessimist with the Giants by nature but I would be surprised (To put it lightly) if Jones doesn't become a top tier QB soon. Maybe as early as this season if things break right around him. I wasn't nearly as sold on Eli this early on as I am with Jones. There is just something about him that screams winner to me.


This is where I am too. I am interested in reading what others see in terms of weaknesses though.
I think people are scarred  
armstead98 : 9/11/2020 2:08 pm : link
Jones is the real deal and we're about to see it live.
Can we please  
Daniel in MI : 9/11/2020 2:22 pm : link
Remember what Eli looked like as a rookie? He looked like a hot mess. I was at the Raven’s game where he had a 0.0 rating. That was too high, it should have somehow gone negative. Not saying DJ is Or will be Eli, but he looked worlds better in his rookie year than Eli did. And our top skill guys never played together, etc. Until SB got healthy we had no run game. And there were an awful lot of “lookout!” blocks by Solder, Saquon, and co.

He needs to work on things, for sure. Time will tell if the fumbles were a fluke, or a problem - and if a problem how fixable it is. On the whole I like a QB that keeps looking downfield. He just has to speed up his clock. Better than a QB who won’t keep his eyes downfield.

Sadly, he has to learn a new system in a shortened preseason, and may be behind a Swiss cheese line yet again At least to start the year. I think what’s realistic is to hope by the end of this year we see good progress. I think we are set up for a rough start.

Next year is, IMO, make or break on him. He’ll repeat the same system (we hope) have a full preseason, 2 full years in, and the OL should gel some. There will be few excuses.

So I was listening to the Ringer NFL show  
JoeyBigBlue : 9/11/2020 3:00 pm : link
It was hosted by Kevin Clark and Warren Sharp. The show was about the young QBs in the NFL. Daniel Jones wasn’t even mentioned. Seems like the national media isn’t as high on Jones as BBI is.
Main concern  
kelsto811 : 9/11/2020 3:07 pm : link
right now is ball security and to go with that, pocket presence to an extent. I think he has all the tools to be a top QB.
From the JJ Mic'd up scrimmage video:  
Kev in Cali : 9/11/2020 3:29 pm : link
"JJ: what didn't I like from the first half?
DJ: the fumble...
JJ: the fumble on the slide and the fumble with the ball swinging..."

I think there will still be some issues with pocket presence/fumbling as well....at least early on into the season. The OL getting better and gelling should help this, but it may not happen overnight.

He'll be fine long term and I'm ok with whatever hiccups the first few games present.
I understand the nerves about Daniel  
SteelGiant : 9/11/2020 3:33 pm : link
but I think some of you forget about some great things he did as a rookie. I hope gets better and better. I think we should be happy that he still had confidence to keep looking down field instead of having happy feet. That O-line could have turned him into another David Carr. Here is a link of his highlights, watch them again to feel better. I tried to start them on a play where he had good pocket awareness.

Maybe DJ just needs to learn his limits, maybe he feels the pressure but thinks he can get the ball out it time because he doesnt mind taking a hit for that extra second of time.
Link - ( New Window )
My take on Daniel Jones is that from his first series in preseason  
sb from NYT Forum : 9/11/2020 3:42 pm : link
...he made me and many other BBIers look like complete idiots, and he only went on to reinforce that during the season.

He has fumbling issues but I think like a lot of young QBs he was holding on to the ball too long or staying in the pocket too long. I expect that to improve this year (1) because of experience, and (2) no more Shurmur and his sucky playcalling.
RE: So I was listening to the Ringer NFL show  
armstead98 : 9/11/2020 3:45 pm : link
In comment 14967542 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
It was hosted by Kevin Clark and Warren Sharp. The show was about the young QBs in the NFL. Daniel Jones wasn’t even mentioned. Seems like the national media isn’t as high on Jones as BBI is.


Kevin Clark is a huge Gettleman hater and shat all over the DJ pick, he'll be slow to come around.

Warren Sharp is great, he's a successful better and analytics guy. I'm looking for to hearing him regularly on the pod.
Tony Romo  
jacob12 : 9/11/2020 4:00 pm : link
Jason Garrett did not make Tony Romo into an outstanding QB. Romo was an exceptional clutch QB.

From 2006-2016 Romo was the league's premier QB in fourth-quarter situations when the score differential was 7 points or fewer.

Romo never had a good OL or Zeke Elliot. I think Tony was a highly underrated QB.

RE: M.S.  
M.S. : 9/11/2020 4:04 pm : link
In comment 14967479 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
What pocket could he step up into or which side should he step towards? It has been pretty slim pickings for years now when the OL provided a good pocket and normally pressure came from everywhere.

Here is what he dealt with last year. Team can't run very well. Receivers are not game changers (yet).

So a repeated occurrence was 3rd down and 9/10 yards to go. Defense does not need to send extra rushes (bad OL) and the receivers can't get open downfield. So what then? Checkdown and punt? Nobody knows if he was trying to just make a play. Let's give it time with Garrett.

I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope your scenario plays out. In any event, Daniel Jones made some very big plays last season and -- fumbling aside -- he put up very strong rookie stats on a not-so-good team!
Baker Mayfield  
kdog77 : 9/11/2020 4:36 pm : link
Had better rookie year than Jones and then stunk it up his second season with a new coach and system. All DJ proved last year was that he can play in the NFL, but that does not mean he is anywhere close the Mannings, Mahomes or Lamar Jackson in terms of talent, skill and command of the offense. Let's give the kid some more time before we start making such optimistic comparisons to other QBs in different systems and better skill players. Personally I just want to see DG get better at recognizing what defenses are trying to do, get through his reads faster and get rid of the ball quicker. His penchant for holding onto the ball too long last year can be attributed to fearlessness, but it could also just be a learned habit from Duke where he had to make chicken salad out of chicken shit to keep the team in the game. The best NFL QBs know when to cut bait and move onto the next play.
Better than Eli at this point  
NJLCO : 9/11/2020 6:37 pm : link
Great comment a lot of thought went into that one. WTF.
RE: Tony Romo  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/11/2020 6:59 pm : link
In comment 14967600 jacob12 said:
Quote:
Jason Garrett did not make Tony Romo into an outstanding QB. Romo was an exceptional clutch QB.

From 2006-2016 Romo was the league's premier QB in fourth-quarter situations when the score differential was 7 points or fewer.

Romo never had a good OL or Zeke Elliot. I think Tony was a highly underrated QB.


Wtf? His offensive line might have been the best in football in 2007. He had two HOF targets (Owens and Witten). Granted he was more inexperienced but he has played with lots of talent. He also missed a couple key throws in very big moments. I do think he was a very good QB though.
I was happy with the selection  
Giant John : 9/11/2020 7:06 pm : link
When he was picked and his first year was solid. He will improve this year. I think GIANTs got lucky.
RE: Can we please  
US1 Giants : 9/11/2020 7:18 pm : link
In comment 14967518 Daniel in MI said:
Quote:
Remember what Eli looked like as a rookie? He looked like a hot mess. I was at the Raven’s game where he had a 0.0 rating. That was too high, it should have somehow gone negative. Not saying DJ is Or will be Eli, but he looked worlds better in his rookie year than Eli did. And our top skill guys never played together, etc. Until SB got healthy we had no run game. And there were an awful lot of “lookout!” blocks by Solder, Saquon, and co.

He needs to work on things, for sure. Time will tell if the fumbles were a fluke, or a problem - and if a problem how fixable it is. On the whole I like a QB that keeps looking downfield. He just has to speed up his clock. Better than a QB who won’t keep his eyes downfield.

Sadly, he has to learn a new system in a shortened preseason, and may be behind a Swiss cheese line yet again At least to start the year. I think what’s realistic is to hope by the end of this year we see good progress. I think we are set up for a rough start.

Next year is, IMO, make or break on him. He’ll repeat the same system (we hope) have a full preseason, 2 full years in, and the OL should gel some. There will be few excuses.


Eli's first games were against great defenses if I recall. I am optimistic that Jones will be a franchise QB but doubt he can win the big games like Eli did.
RE: It can't be stated enough  
short lease : 9/11/2020 8:57 pm : link
In comment 14967434 Gordo said:
Quote:
how important of a hire Garrett was. I think he will do wonders for DJ. Say what you want about Dak, Garrett made him a better QB.

It's refreshing to know that DJ is surrounded by competent coaches and staff. This year may not be filled with lots of wins, maybe 6-10/7-9 but I feel like we are laying the foundation for a solid competitive team.



Garrett's hiring maybe turn out to be the most important move made in the 2020 off-season. We will see ...
RE: It can't be stated enough  
djm : 9/11/2020 9:54 pm : link
In comment 14967434 Gordo said:
Quote:
how important of a hire Garrett was. I think he will do wonders for DJ. Say what you want about Dak, Garrett made him a better QB.

It's refreshing to know that DJ is surrounded by competent coaches and staff. This year may not be filled with lots of wins, maybe 6-10/7-9 but I feel like we are laying the foundation for a solid competitive team.


Couldn’t agree more. Garrett hire could go down as one of the best we have made here in a long time. Giants have done right by jones. They have given him a super star RB, good crop of WRs and you know we won’t stop drafting them, a blue chip talent LT and still going. And he’s got Garrett.

I think we might even be higher on Jones if he was anywhere else. First round qb with his skill set and size, putting up decent numbers on a shitty team now going into year 2.

Could get interesting here. If Thomas and Jones are the goods sweet glory be...

PS had a thought that jerry Jones was desperate to keep Garrett away from the giants and that’s why the whole Garrett jerry Jones thing dragged on fir some long. Jones tried to sway him or sway the process and it failed. And now jones is scared that Garrett is going to help the giants kick their ass every year as long as dak and zeke and all Garrett’s guys are in Dallas. Sort of the Jon gruden effect when he left Oakland went to Tampa and then killed Oakland in the super bowl. Hey i can dream. Why not?
D. Jones will have a very solid year IF his fumbling is fixed  
SGMen : 9/11/2020 10:04 pm : link
Turnovers kill and defenses will keep coming after him until he proves he can get rid of the ball quickly, accurately, and to the open guy. I believe he will be a superb short thrower and mid-range thrower.

I read his arm strength seems to have improved some due to his weight-lifting and off-season work. Lets hope so!

He works hard and likes the game so I'm optimistic. But he needs Barkley to be a workhorse.
"but a good QB beats a good D these days ....."  
short lease : 9/11/2020 10:41 pm : link

If he has the tools and the O is on all cylinders.

Do we have the tools?

Are we a well oiled smooth running machine?



To early in his career to tell and a loss on Monday night means nothing at this point in his career.


Last year he was a rookie. This year he is learning an entirely new offense ... hardly a grisled veteran.

He is still very young and so is the whole team .... I kind of like that. The offense can grow together. They will.
Colin  
GiantMike92 : 9/12/2020 9:29 am : link
First I’ve read about his inability to read zone. Care to enlighten us who don’t have access to all 22 coaches tape or perhaps where you read this?
One year is not a career, but I think Jones is no worse than Eli  
GeofromNJ : 9/12/2020 10:49 am : link
and if this is the case, he's more than adequate. His one year stats compared to Eli's career:

Jones
------
TDs vs INTs 24-12 2.0 ratio
TDs per pass attempt 5.2%

Eli
---
TDs vs INTs 366-244 1.5 ratio
TDs per pass attempt 4.5%
I just heard  
GiantMike92 : 9/14/2020 7:55 pm : link
The zone comment during the game. I have to apologize, never heard it before.
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