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Nick Gates was the worst OL I’ve ever seen tonight

Josh in the City : 9/14/2020 11:13 pm
And that includes Erick Flowers.I was looking forward to see how he would play at Center but tonight was as bad as it gets. I get that it was against one of the best DLines in the NFL but that performance was unacceptable. I’d like to give him another week to see if he improved but I wouldn’t be surprised to see Pulley start next week. The play linked below is just a small sample of what he looked like tonight...
Gates - ( New Window )
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Fleming was never actually supposed to be our starter this year  
Bill L : 9/15/2020 7:29 am : link
and, if you look beyond the immediate and focus on the plan, Lemieux will likely end up as our C. Coming into the summer, heck, even up until last week, our starting OC was not really clear.

But the biggest thing is that everyone appears to hold fast to the idea that people are static, that teams are static, and that nobody has the capacity for growth. But everyone is wrong (although, being static, I don't believe they have the capacity to recognize that and change their minds).
Seven years of bad football  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/15/2020 7:31 am : link
And there are people who legitimately wonder why fans would be negative? Is there a version of this phenomenon among Browns fans?



We need better fans.  
Bill L : 9/15/2020 7:32 am : link
.
RE: We need better fans.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/15/2020 7:43 am : link
In comment 14972580 Bill L said:
Quote:
.


We need a better offensive line. But that's another 7 year issue.
RE: RE: We need better fans.  
Bill L : 9/15/2020 7:49 am : link
In comment 14972594 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 14972580 Bill L said:


Quote:


.



We need a better offensive line. But that's another 7 year issue.


True and a much easier and quicker fix.
RE: We need better fans.  
RDJR : 9/15/2020 7:58 am : link
In comment 14972580 Bill L said:
Quote:
.


There will be plenty of better fans if the team starts winning. Just how it works.
Gates should move back to RT  
Giant4Life : 9/15/2020 8:11 am : link
And Pulley should start at center. Pulley isn't the answer at C, but neither is Gates and at least we could run behind him at RT. He was good last year, never should've moved him.

On a positive note, Thomas looked really good.
RE: Enzo  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/15/2020 8:33 am : link
In comment 14972435 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
No. It's not a stupid question. The Giants had 14 practices to get decide to start Gates, Pulley, Lemieux, Haycraft, or Halapio.

14.

You are avoiding the question now.

Garrett and Colombo - who coached in Dallas - made the decision that Gates is the best long-term option.

You on the other hand, want immediate results, no matter how unrealistic they are.

I don't want to speak for Enzo, but I think the point is, the options didn't need to be Gates, Pulley, Lemieux, Haycraft, or Halapio.

We didn't have to trade our original 3rd round pick for a free agent in the middle of a season where we were already 2-6.

I'll tack on that we didn't need to give a JAG like Mayo anything more than the league minimum, which might have allowed DG to pursue an experienced OC upgrade in FA.

Your point about the 14 practices is valid, and Garrett and Colombo may have decided that Gates was the best of that bunch, but it doesn't wash away having a very risky pool of OC prospects on the roster for those 14 practices and giving Garrett/Colombo pretty rough options to choose from. If anything, it only served to expose what was already a very precarious situation at OC.

I'm hopeful that Lemieux emerges as the OC by the end of the season, and I think Gates can provide a lot of value as the 6th OL, who can fill in at any spot on the line as well as TE in heavy packages.

I do think some of the hand-wringing is a bit much, especially when the OP is prone to hyperbole and whining - I feel bad for someone who experiences "the worst [insert whatever here] I've ever seen in my life!" on a daily basis.
RE: We need better fans.  
Enzo : 9/15/2020 8:41 am : link
In comment 14972580 Bill L said:
Quote:
.

and a better GM.

We also probably need better owners, but that's a pointless discussion.
RE: Enzo  
DavidinBMNY : 9/15/2020 8:43 am : link
In comment 14972423 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
So you would have started Pulley and started the Gates experiment when?

Answer the question.
The question is how much of a ramp does Gates get. We expected him to be over matched. My 2 cents is if he doesn't show improvement this week, bring in a center who sucks less and can be on the field by week 4. Period. I'd be very surprised if the Giants don't try out Centers as well. Now that week 1 has passed Vets contracts are not guaranteed so adding a Vet is more doable.

I doubt they would sign anyone, outside of Pio, right now, but I wouldn't be shocked if they add Pio right to the roster. Pio is bad, but not this bad. The question is in week 3 will Gates have made a jump. It was his first game. The Giants probably shouldn't pull the plug yet, but they need a solid alternate plan, and if Pulley is so bad he's worse then Gates, it would seem like they can find someone slightly better.
RE: Anakim  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/15/2020 8:46 am : link
In comment 14972469 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
and you think you are telling us something we don’t know? No shit.

Draft picks don’t mean shit anymore. We’ve done that experiment plenty. If you can play, you can play. If you can’t, you can’t. Plenty of OL around the league are good players that were low draft picks or undrafted. I’m not saying Gates is going to be awesome. Just let the guy play a few games before we start to panic.

The best OL we ever had had 3 guys that were basically afterthoughts in the draft. And I can guarantee you that Shaun O’Hara got lit up in his first start at center.

Give it some fucking time.

Shaun O'Hara's first start at center came against the 2000 Ravens, one of the best defenses in NFL history. Travis Prentice and Jamel White were Cleveland's RBs that game, not quite on the level of Saquon Barkley.

And even with a pair of crappy RBs, going up against one of the best defenses the league has ever seen (and definitely the best defense in the NFL that season), the Browns managed to gain 25 yards rushing from their RBs, which is 257% better than what the Giants accomplished last night against a good (but not historically great) defense, with a RB who has the talent to be an all-time great.

If O'Hara's first career start is your benchmark for OC play, Gates still fails. For the record, I'm not suggesting that the Giants should give up on Gates. I'm just pointing out that your example doesn't do Gates any favors.

Link - ( New Window )
Yeah the 14 practices  
pjcas18 : 9/15/2020 8:47 am : link
while true is more of an excuse than a cause.

OC is arguably the most important position on the OL. I don't think it's wrong to say more importance could have been placed on the position.

Even if it meant not bringing in Fleming or cutting Tate or any one of 5 other moves - including the draft (though I hate relying on draft picks for year 1 contributions outside of the 1st or 2nd rounds - but at least draft a legit OC.

this isn't 2020 hind sight (no pun intended) or MMQB, this point was raised all off-season by many and many people said "I don't think this is our roster yet" or "it's May can you be patient" or "Colombo and Garrett know a thing or two about OL"
I dont think Lemueix is headed to OC personally  
Jim in Forest Hills : 9/15/2020 9:01 am : link
I think he will replace Zeitler next year.
RE: I dont think Lemueix is headed to OC personally  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/15/2020 9:04 am : link
In comment 14972681 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
I think he will replace Zeitler next year.

If Hernandez continues to play more like his 2019 self than 2018, Lemieux may end up at LG before he ever gets the chance to replace Zeitler.
GM  
Simms : 9/15/2020 9:19 am : link
The Giants have usually had a roll of the dice with GM's. I see the Ravens and how they handed over the reins, and the Eagles....

I understand picking players is not a lock, but we always have seemed to reach more so than not.
I think we'll get the tackle thing worked out......  
BillKo : 9/15/2020 9:22 am : link
....and Gates seems like a worker, so hey I am an optimsist.

You know what concerns me....the guards.

These are supposed to be our top two lineman at this point in time.

How did they play last night?
...  
christian : 9/15/2020 9:24 am : link
I don't believe anyone is saying the book is written, but the argument is silly that things will necessarily progress well because:

1) Judge/Garret/Colombo know what they are doing

2) It was an unorthodox offseason, and the lack of preparation is the only culprit

There remains the distinct possibility the low odds move of an UDFA who has never played a position, just won't work.

It's not like the Giants were average bad last night up the middle. Or even really bad. They were destructively bad. The silliest of all assumptions is it will necessarily be fine.
RE: Yeah the 14 practices  
sb from NYT Forum : 9/15/2020 9:52 am : link
In comment 14972651 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
while true is more of an excuse than a cause.

OC is arguably the most important position on the OL. I don't think it's wrong to say more importance could have been placed on the position.

Even if it meant not bringing in Fleming or cutting Tate or any one of 5 other moves - including the draft (though I hate relying on draft picks for year 1 contributions outside of the 1st or 2nd rounds - but at least draft a legit OC.

this isn't 2020 hind sight (no pun intended) or MMQB, this point was raised all off-season by many and many people said "I don't think this is our roster yet" or "it's May can you be patient" or "Colombo and Garrett know a thing or two about OL"


Be careful, you will be called stupid or a dumbass by the site owner for expressing this opinion.
prdave  
Toth029 : 9/15/2020 10:02 am : link
I can't get over how you're upset over Eric calling you a name. Are you that thin skinned? And you claim you understand the point he's trying to make when you CLEARLY do not.

"If the Steelers are so good, why haven't they made the playoffs"

Because they had significant injuries on offense last year? And prior to that, Ryan Shazier was lost. You might have know him, right?

The Steelers have three All Pros in thei ruff front seven alone. You obviously don't understand the situation if you're comparing it to the Seahawks facing the hapless Falcons. The defense the OL faced last night led the league in sacks and turnovers last season. And they did so for a good reason. They're really, really freaking good. Got it now?
I suspect that Josh will ultimately be correct that Gates  
Reb8thVA : 9/15/2020 10:04 am : link
is not the answer at Center. The odds are certainly against him

That said, he deserves more than one game against a quality opponent to prove himself.

He did get tossed around a lot but Alualu is a monster at the nose and has been for a while. He would give any Center trouble, let alone someone making a position switch.

I suspect that this is Judge/Columbo/Garret simply experimenting with the ingredients already in the pantry to see if they can make some lemonade. This entire year is like an exhibition season. Its about getting the ship pointed in the right direction for the future.

If Gates proves he belongs then that is one less issue to deal with. If he doesn't pan out than you know you need another solution.

RE: Anakim  
eric2425ny : 9/15/2020 10:08 am : link
In comment 14972379 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
And if Gates ends up being better than those other options?


I agree on giving him some time, but it may not be a bad idea to bring in another guy like Britt as a fallback.
The main frustration for me with Nick Gates...  
Big Blue Blogger : 9/15/2020 10:38 am : link
...is that he has been in the building since May 11, 2018. He was extended despite having played very little, and moved to a position he hadn’t played at all. I’m all for developing homegrown talent; I just don’t think good use has been made of the multi-year opportunity to groom Gates as a starter at any particular position, even factoring in the year on IR. It’s obviously not Judge’s fault, or Colombo’s; they weren’t here in 2018-19, and Judge is right that versatile interior linemen are more valuable than a single-position player. If center was going to be any part of Gates’s future, though, even as a secondary position, the organization as a whole should have started that learning process a long time ago. It’s not as though Halapio or Pulley had staked a long-term claim to the position.

My worry is that we end up in same position next year with Lemieux (or, less likely, Murphy/Haycraft) that we’re currently in with Gates. I’m still hopeful that Gates will become a good center. But Year Three seems awfully late to be this early in the Learning/evaluation process.
Some people really should think before they post  
djm : 9/15/2020 10:51 am : link
.
RE: Giants should have taken a Center with their 3rd round pick  
djm : 9/15/2020 10:52 am : link
In comment 14972328 LBH15 said:
Quote:
and put Gates at Right Tackle.

Oh...they trade their 3rd round pick?


They did. For a good starting DL. Can you fucking move on?
RE: RE: Enzo  
djm : 9/15/2020 10:57 am : link
In comment 14972429 Enzo said:
Quote:
In comment 14972423 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


So you would have started Pulley and started the Gates experiment when?

Answer the question.


that's a stupid question. A competent front office gives the coaches better options than that.


So you’re saying competent front offices never start rookie OLinemen? They never preside over a team that sees a first year starter struggle early? Really now.
RE: Some people really should think before they post  
LBH15 : 9/15/2020 11:00 am : link
In comment 14972940 djm said:
Quote:
.


Guess what I am thinking now.
and really  
djm : 9/15/2020 11:00 am : link
Let’s just keep talking about 5-6-7 years ago. It’s so relevant now. I’m done.
RE: and really  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/15/2020 12:17 pm : link
In comment 14972965 djm said:
Quote:
Let’s just keep talking about 5-6-7 years ago. It’s so relevant now. I’m done.

You don't mean that.
RE: Seven years of bad football  
prdave73 : 9/15/2020 1:37 pm : link
In comment 14972578 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
And there are people who legitimately wonder why fans would be negative? Is there a version of this phenomenon among Browns fans?




Agree.. in a nut shell, that's pretty much the point.
RE: prdave  
prdave73 : 9/15/2020 1:51 pm : link
In comment 14972825 Toth029 said:
Quote:
I can't get over how you're upset over Eric calling you a name. Are you that thin skinned? And you claim you understand the point he's trying to make when you CLEARLY do not.

"If the Steelers are so good, why haven't they made the playoffs"

Because they had significant injuries on offense last year? And prior to that, Ryan Shazier was lost. You might have know him, right?

The Steelers have three All Pros in thei ruff front seven alone. You obviously don't understand the situation if you're comparing it to the Seahawks facing the hapless Falcons. The defense the OL faced last night led the league in sacks and turnovers last season. And they did so for a good reason. They're really, really freaking good. Got it now?


Wow Toth029 tell me you are being sarcastic? How mad do you think I was? How did you get that from my post? I can't see how I sound angry from this, "Wow.. Didn't think you would stoop that low, especially being the Site Administrator.. But it's all good, maybe you never heard, agree to disagree phrase?" To me that looks likes I was accepting of it by saying, it's all good? I don't know about you but that doesn't sound like someone who is angry?? Actually you should of asked Eric why he is so angry that he had to resort to calling someone a dumbass especially in the position he is in. Now that sounds like someone who is angry, right? ok.. Thanks for your input.
Eric.  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/15/2020 1:54 pm : link
isn't the only one who thinks you're a dumbass.

Thinking it is somebody else's fault is part of the problem.
I'm just tired of these projects at center  
Greg from LI : 9/15/2020 2:13 pm : link
Halapio had been a fringe NFL guard who had barely played at all, and they installed him as the starting C. Now Gates is a former UDFA tackle with little experience, and they install him as the starting center.

I'm just a dumb fan but, I dunno, maybe bringing in a legitimate NFL center (read: not Spencer Pulley or Halapio) would have been a smart play? If for no other reason than to give Gates some competition.
OP with the typical knee jerk reaction  
HugeS : 9/15/2020 2:14 pm : link
Did Nick Gates miss a couple key blitz pick-ups? Sure, but was he the main reason Barkley kept getting blown up behind the line of scrimmage. If you actually watch the tape it wasn't Gates getting blown off the ball every running play. Now Cameron Fleming was terrible and Zeitler probably had his worst game as a Giant against one of the best defensive fronts in the league. Gates for a guy who never played the position and had a limited preseason actually did as well as you could expect. He's not getting walked back like Pulley and Halapio. It will take time to pick up everything thrown at him from reacting faster on blitz pick ups and picking up stunts, but he's not physically overmatched for the job. I'd rather let him grow into it than settle for Pulley who's very limited.
This is why the Gates extension was really puzzling  
NoGainDayne : 9/15/2020 5:14 pm : link
you need to watch players in action and reward success in the right ways as an important part of team success.

You don't even know how we've interfered with the development of Gates by giving him an extension that was extremely premature and a-typical. Sometimes it's good for players to fight to prove themselves, fight for security that players get after they've proven themselves that for some reason we gave a player that did absolutely zero to earn it.

The Giants have this habit of talking up players that "look good in practice" that quite frankly never translates to the games. With the OL especially that's been a bugaboo and that overconfidence in our developmental players has bitten us in the ass time and time again.
We've..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/15/2020 5:35 pm : link
"interfered" in the development of Gates??

Hoo boy.

RE: RE: ...  
TyreeHelmet : 9/15/2020 5:50 pm : link
In comment 14972482 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14972479 christian said:


Quote:


Eric, no one is surprised. Everyone gets there are mitigating circumstances. The Giants line very predictably was really, really bad.

For all the reasons you keep posting. And it could be the UDFA lineman who’s never played center just isn’t good enough, the journeyman right tackle just isn’t good enough, and the underachieving right guard just isn’t good enough.

You’re the one claiming things will definitely be better. What evidence did tonight provide you to support that?



(1) Thomas looks like the real deal at LT.
(2) Coaches and former players have said Hernandez is having his best camp and looks poised for a big year.
(3) Colombo really likes Gates.
(4) Zeitler has a proven record as a one of the better guards in the NFL and doesn't have any injury issues this year and is still in his prime.
(5) Fleming ideally is a swing tackle, but he has started a lot of games in this league. Peart will eventually take over.

They love Lemieux and Peart (back-ups). They like Slade. Our back-up situation is better than it has been in a decade.

Those are my reasons.

Would it surprise me if they have to bench Gates? No. He's the real question mark. But Garrett and Colombo know what a good center looks like. Right?


There is very little evidence Hernandez is a good guard and perhaps even a starting guard in this league. Seems like a guy with a lot of talk in his game and not much to back up on the film....
RE: RE: ...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/15/2020 7:23 pm : link
In comment 14972482 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14972479 christian said:


Quote:




They love Lemieux and Peart (back-ups). They like Slade. Our back-up situation is better than it has been in a decade.

Those are my reasons.



Sorry, but I'm really struggling with this. In what world is having two guys who have never played equalling a good backup situation? That doesn't hold water at all. A backup is a player you trust to be able to step into a game short notice and be ready and capable. None of this applies to two rookies who have never seen action before.



RE: Eric.  
prdave73 : 9/15/2020 7:46 pm : link
In comment 14973298 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
isn't the only one who thinks you're a dumbass.

Thinking it is somebody else's fault is part of the problem.


Fatty in Charlotte... please go away. This doesn’t involve you, it never really does but somehow you show up?! It’s almost like you actually don’t have a life. And if you do, wow it must be pathetic.. makes sense..
Classic Josh  
lono801 : 9/15/2020 10:24 pm : link
....
lono..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/15/2020 10:31 pm : link
considering Josh's track record, I think we can look forward to Gates being a pretty damn good player. This was "Classic Josh"...

Quote:
He's fucking horrible
Josh in the City : 4/25/2019 10:57 pm : link
Sorry there is no sugar coating it. Will go down as the worst pick and biggest reach in franchise history. Taking a day 3 guy at 6 overall. Doesn't get any worse. Fire gettleman!
RE: RE: ...  
Greg from LI : 9/15/2020 10:34 pm : link
In comment 14972482 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
But Garrett and Colombo know what a good center looks like. Right?


Wish I had a nickel for every time someone told me that Halapio was going to be good because Pat Shurmur played center in college.
A flawless track record...  
lono801 : 9/15/2020 10:37 pm : link
For years...

A Benchmark for wrong...

But Ill give him credit...

He beats a dead horse with the best
That being said  
lono801 : 9/15/2020 10:50 pm : link
I liked what I saw with the OLine...

Gates included
Wow I just read through  
mattyblue : 9/15/2020 11:32 pm : link
most of this and people get way too annoyed. Gates was not the worst OL I’ve ever seen that is a silly statement. I didn’t watch him directly to see exactly how bad he played but nonetheless it is one game.

However, the argument that he was facing the Steelers D line and that somehow makes it ok to get destroyed is silly as well. A rough game is a rough game it happens to all players. Really if you can’t handle the Steelers line because they are that much better than you, you don’t belong to be in the NFL to begin with. If you have a player that can only block bad and mediocre defenses he’s useless to you really. A player doesn’t need to dominate, but he does need to be good enough that you have some confidence he can handle things regardless of who you are playing. I get that you don’t expect as much against a dominant opponent, but you can’t just say it’s ok to suck against X, Y, and Z because they are better than you.

That being said, it’s 1 game and even if it was the worst game you have ever seen an O lineman play you can’t assume a player, especially at a new position, is terrible by that. That’s just assuming too much from one game. He may work out, he may not. I certainly hope he does but if not you try the next guy. Just hold off on broad proclamations.

But in the end if you aren’t worried about the Giants O line you aren’t being honest. Doesn’t matter who the coaches are, or even the players. Until it’s not a problem its still an issue, and regardless of who we played there was lot of awful happening last night on the line. Optimism is good, but confidence in them seems ludicrous to me.
RE: Wow I just read through  
prdave73 : 9/16/2020 1:39 am : link
In comment 14973963 mattyblue said:
Quote:
most of this and people get way too annoyed. Gates was not the worst OL I’ve ever seen that is a silly statement. I didn’t watch him directly to see exactly how bad he played but nonetheless it is one game.

However, the argument that he was facing the Steelers D line and that somehow makes it ok to get destroyed is silly as well. A rough game is a rough game it happens to all players. Really if you can’t handle the Steelers line because they are that much better than you, you don’t belong to be in the NFL to begin with. If you have a player that can only block bad and mediocre defenses he’s useless to you really. A player doesn’t need to dominate, but he does need to be good enough that you have some confidence he can handle things regardless of who you are playing. I get that you don’t expect as much against a dominant opponent, but you can’t just say it’s ok to suck against X, Y, and Z because they are better than you.

That being said, it’s 1 game and even if it was the worst game you have ever seen an O lineman play you can’t assume a player, especially at a new position, is terrible by that. That’s just assuming too much from one game. He may work out, he may not. I certainly hope he does but if not you try the next guy. Just hold off on broad proclamations.

But in the end if you aren’t worried about the Giants O line you aren’t being honest. Doesn’t matter who the coaches are, or even the players. Until it’s not a problem its still an issue, and regardless of who we played there was lot of awful happening last night on the line. Optimism is good, but confidence in them seems ludicrous to me.



Agree 1000% Could not be said better. Thank you!
With that, this conversation can be put to rest..
RE: Wow I just read through  
Bill L : 9/16/2020 8:13 am : link
In comment 14973963 mattyblue said:
Quote:
most of this and people get way too annoyed. Gates was not the worst OL I’ve ever seen that is a silly statement. I didn’t watch him directly to see exactly how bad he played but nonetheless it is one game.

However, the argument that he was facing the Steelers D line and that somehow makes it ok to get destroyed is silly as well. A rough game is a rough game it happens to all players. Really if you can’t handle the Steelers line because they are that much better than you, you don’t belong to be in the NFL to begin with. If you have a player that can only block bad and mediocre defenses he’s useless to you really. A player doesn’t need to dominate, but he does need to be good enough that you have some confidence he can handle things regardless of who you are playing. I get that you don’t expect as much against a dominant opponent, but you can’t just say it’s ok to suck against X, Y, and Z because they are better than you.

That being said, it’s 1 game and even if it was the worst game you have ever seen an O lineman play you can’t assume a player, especially at a new position, is terrible by that. That’s just assuming too much from one game. He may work out, he may not. I certainly hope he does but if not you try the next guy. Just hold off on broad proclamations.

But in the end if you aren’t worried about the Giants O line you aren’t being honest. Doesn’t matter who the coaches are, or even the players. Until it’s not a problem its still an issue, and regardless of who we played there was lot of awful happening last night on the line. Optimism is good, but confidence in them seems ludicrous to me.


My problem with this is that it reeks of static. There's no allowance for ability to grow and/or improve.
RE: RE: Wow I just read through  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/16/2020 12:07 pm : link
In comment 14974031 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 14973963 mattyblue said:


Quote:


most of this and people get way too annoyed. Gates was not the worst OL I’ve ever seen that is a silly statement. I didn’t watch him directly to see exactly how bad he played but nonetheless it is one game.

However, the argument that he was facing the Steelers D line and that somehow makes it ok to get destroyed is silly as well. A rough game is a rough game it happens to all players. Really if you can’t handle the Steelers line because they are that much better than you, you don’t belong to be in the NFL to begin with. If you have a player that can only block bad and mediocre defenses he’s useless to you really. A player doesn’t need to dominate, but he does need to be good enough that you have some confidence he can handle things regardless of who you are playing. I get that you don’t expect as much against a dominant opponent, but you can’t just say it’s ok to suck against X, Y, and Z because they are better than you.

That being said, it’s 1 game and even if it was the worst game you have ever seen an O lineman play you can’t assume a player, especially at a new position, is terrible by that. That’s just assuming too much from one game. He may work out, he may not. I certainly hope he does but if not you try the next guy. Just hold off on broad proclamations.

But in the end if you aren’t worried about the Giants O line you aren’t being honest. Doesn’t matter who the coaches are, or even the players. Until it’s not a problem its still an issue, and regardless of who we played there was lot of awful happening last night on the line. Optimism is good, but confidence in them seems ludicrous to me.



My problem with this is that it reeks of static. There's no allowance for ability to grow and/or improve.

If you're being fair, there's a ton of caveats in that post that caution against a static view (emphasis above mine).
Still?  
Thegratefulhead : 9/16/2020 12:30 pm : link
Most of what people are complaining about the OL might end up being spot on. I have posted numerous times this off season that I was not sold on the OL yet. I needed to SEE it first. I have not given Judge any credit yet. I kept saying to put on the breaks. We had to wait and see what happens when the bullets are live.

Why am I not saying, "See, I told you so"?

Because, it would be the same thing as having "idiot" tattooed on my forehead.

Could there possibly be a person that does not completely understand that an OL need time to gel? To work together, to learn about each other. To trust one another. That does not come from practice. It comes from playing together in the trenches when it matters.

How many games have these guys played together? ZERO

Is center an easy position to learn? Hell fucking no.

What was a realistic expectation for our OL against that front 7? Be Honest, The Steeler's were licking their fucking chops all week.

Maybe this was a shit show plan, maybe your complaints will turn out to be true and legitimate.

After week one, without a single preseason game, the vitriol makes you look foolish. I feel bad for some of you. You should be embarrassed, I am embarrassed for you.
For what its worth, PFF had Gates graded out as 2 or 3rd best on our  
PatersonPlank : 9/16/2020 12:34 pm : link
OL. Thomas was #1.
The guard play stunk  
XBRONX : 9/16/2020 1:04 pm : link
Hernandez and Zeitler. Bad
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