And that includes Erick Flowers.I was looking forward to see how he would play at Center but tonight was as bad as it gets. I get that it was against one of the best DLines in the NFL but that performance was unacceptable. I’d like to give him another week to see if he improved but I wouldn’t be surprised to see Pulley start next week. The play linked below is just a small sample of what he looked like tonight...
Gates - (
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You know what concerns me....the guards.
These are supposed to be our top two lineman at this point in time.
How did they play last night?
1) Judge/Garret/Colombo know what they are doing
2) It was an unorthodox offseason, and the lack of preparation is the only culprit
There remains the distinct possibility the low odds move of an UDFA who has never played a position, just won't work.
It's not like the Giants were average bad last night up the middle. Or even really bad. They were destructively bad. The silliest of all assumptions is it will necessarily be fine.
OC is arguably the most important position on the OL. I don't think it's wrong to say more importance could have been placed on the position.
Even if it meant not bringing in Fleming or cutting Tate or any one of 5 other moves - including the draft (though I hate relying on draft picks for year 1 contributions outside of the 1st or 2nd rounds - but at least draft a legit OC.
this isn't 2020 hind sight (no pun intended) or MMQB, this point was raised all off-season by many and many people said "I don't think this is our roster yet" or "it's May can you be patient" or "Colombo and Garrett know a thing or two about OL"
Be careful, you will be called stupid or a dumbass by the site owner for expressing this opinion.
"If the Steelers are so good, why haven't they made the playoffs"
Because they had significant injuries on offense last year? And prior to that, Ryan Shazier was lost. You might have know him, right?
The Steelers have three All Pros in thei ruff front seven alone. You obviously don't understand the situation if you're comparing it to the Seahawks facing the hapless Falcons. The defense the OL faced last night led the league in sacks and turnovers last season. And they did so for a good reason. They're really, really freaking good. Got it now?
That said, he deserves more than one game against a quality opponent to prove himself.
He did get tossed around a lot but Alualu is a monster at the nose and has been for a while. He would give any Center trouble, let alone someone making a position switch.
I suspect that this is Judge/Columbo/Garret simply experimenting with the ingredients already in the pantry to see if they can make some lemonade. This entire year is like an exhibition season. Its about getting the ship pointed in the right direction for the future.
If Gates proves he belongs then that is one less issue to deal with. If he doesn't pan out than you know you need another solution.
I agree on giving him some time, but it may not be a bad idea to bring in another guy like Britt as a fallback.
My worry is that we end up in same position next year with Lemieux (or, less likely, Murphy/Haycraft) that we’re currently in with Gates. I’m still hopeful that Gates will become a good center. But Year Three seems awfully late to be this early in the Learning/evaluation process.
Oh...they trade their 3rd round pick?
They did. For a good starting DL. Can you fucking move on?
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So you would have started Pulley and started the Gates experiment when?
Answer the question.
that's a stupid question. A competent front office gives the coaches better options than that.
So you’re saying competent front offices never start rookie OLinemen? They never preside over a team that sees a first year starter struggle early? Really now.
Guess what I am thinking now.
You don't mean that.
Agree.. in a nut shell, that's pretty much the point.
"If the Steelers are so good, why haven't they made the playoffs"
Because they had significant injuries on offense last year? And prior to that, Ryan Shazier was lost. You might have know him, right?
The Steelers have three All Pros in thei ruff front seven alone. You obviously don't understand the situation if you're comparing it to the Seahawks facing the hapless Falcons. The defense the OL faced last night led the league in sacks and turnovers last season. And they did so for a good reason. They're really, really freaking good. Got it now?
Wow Toth029 tell me you are being sarcastic? How mad do you think I was? How did you get that from my post? I can't see how I sound angry from this, "Wow.. Didn't think you would stoop that low, especially being the Site Administrator.. But it's all good, maybe you never heard, agree to disagree phrase?" To me that looks likes I was accepting of it by saying, it's all good? I don't know about you but that doesn't sound like someone who is angry?? Actually you should of asked Eric why he is so angry that he had to resort to calling someone a dumbass especially in the position he is in. Now that sounds like someone who is angry, right? ok.. Thanks for your input.
Thinking it is somebody else's fault is part of the problem.
I'm just a dumb fan but, I dunno, maybe bringing in a legitimate NFL center (read: not Spencer Pulley or Halapio) would have been a smart play? If for no other reason than to give Gates some competition.
You don't even know how we've interfered with the development of Gates by giving him an extension that was extremely premature and a-typical. Sometimes it's good for players to fight to prove themselves, fight for security that players get after they've proven themselves that for some reason we gave a player that did absolutely zero to earn it.
The Giants have this habit of talking up players that "look good in practice" that quite frankly never translates to the games. With the OL especially that's been a bugaboo and that overconfidence in our developmental players has bitten us in the ass time and time again.
Hoo boy.
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Eric, no one is surprised. Everyone gets there are mitigating circumstances. The Giants line very predictably was really, really bad.
For all the reasons you keep posting. And it could be the UDFA lineman who’s never played center just isn’t good enough, the journeyman right tackle just isn’t good enough, and the underachieving right guard just isn’t good enough.
You’re the one claiming things will definitely be better. What evidence did tonight provide you to support that?
(1) Thomas looks like the real deal at LT.
(2) Coaches and former players have said Hernandez is having his best camp and looks poised for a big year.
(3) Colombo really likes Gates.
(4) Zeitler has a proven record as a one of the better guards in the NFL and doesn't have any injury issues this year and is still in his prime.
(5) Fleming ideally is a swing tackle, but he has started a lot of games in this league. Peart will eventually take over.
They love Lemieux and Peart (back-ups). They like Slade. Our back-up situation is better than it has been in a decade.
Those are my reasons.
Would it surprise me if they have to bench Gates? No. He's the real question mark. But Garrett and Colombo know what a good center looks like. Right?
There is very little evidence Hernandez is a good guard and perhaps even a starting guard in this league. Seems like a guy with a lot of talk in his game and not much to back up on the film....
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They love Lemieux and Peart (back-ups). They like Slade. Our back-up situation is better than it has been in a decade.
Those are my reasons.
Sorry, but I'm really struggling with this. In what world is having two guys who have never played equalling a good backup situation? That doesn't hold water at all. A backup is a player you trust to be able to step into a game short notice and be ready and capable. None of this applies to two rookies who have never seen action before.
Thinking it is somebody else's fault is part of the problem.
Fatty in Charlotte... please go away. This doesn’t involve you, it never really does but somehow you show up?! It’s almost like you actually don’t have a life. And if you do, wow it must be pathetic.. makes sense..
Josh in the City : 4/25/2019 10:57 pm : link
Sorry there is no sugar coating it. Will go down as the worst pick and biggest reach in franchise history. Taking a day 3 guy at 6 overall. Doesn't get any worse. Fire gettleman!
Wish I had a nickel for every time someone told me that Halapio was going to be good because Pat Shurmur played center in college.
A Benchmark for wrong...
But Ill give him credit...
He beats a dead horse with the best
Gates included
However, the argument that he was facing the Steelers D line and that somehow makes it ok to get destroyed is silly as well. A rough game is a rough game it happens to all players. Really if you can’t handle the Steelers line because they are that much better than you, you don’t belong to be in the NFL to begin with. If you have a player that can only block bad and mediocre defenses he’s useless to you really. A player doesn’t need to dominate, but he does need to be good enough that you have some confidence he can handle things regardless of who you are playing. I get that you don’t expect as much against a dominant opponent, but you can’t just say it’s ok to suck against X, Y, and Z because they are better than you.
That being said, it’s 1 game and even if it was the worst game you have ever seen an O lineman play you can’t assume a player, especially at a new position, is terrible by that. That’s just assuming too much from one game. He may work out, he may not. I certainly hope he does but if not you try the next guy. Just hold off on broad proclamations.
But in the end if you aren’t worried about the Giants O line you aren’t being honest. Doesn’t matter who the coaches are, or even the players. Until it’s not a problem its still an issue, and regardless of who we played there was lot of awful happening last night on the line. Optimism is good, but confidence in them seems ludicrous to me.
However, the argument that he was facing the Steelers D line and that somehow makes it ok to get destroyed is silly as well. A rough game is a rough game it happens to all players. Really if you can’t handle the Steelers line because they are that much better than you, you don’t belong to be in the NFL to begin with. If you have a player that can only block bad and mediocre defenses he’s useless to you really. A player doesn’t need to dominate, but he does need to be good enough that you have some confidence he can handle things regardless of who you are playing. I get that you don’t expect as much against a dominant opponent, but you can’t just say it’s ok to suck against X, Y, and Z because they are better than you.
That being said, it’s 1 game and even if it was the worst game you have ever seen an O lineman play you can’t assume a player, especially at a new position, is terrible by that. That’s just assuming too much from one game. He may work out, he may not. I certainly hope he does but if not you try the next guy. Just hold off on broad proclamations.
But in the end if you aren’t worried about the Giants O line you aren’t being honest. Doesn’t matter who the coaches are, or even the players. Until it’s not a problem its still an issue, and regardless of who we played there was lot of awful happening last night on the line. Optimism is good, but confidence in them seems ludicrous to me.
Agree 1000% Could not be said better. Thank you!
With that, this conversation can be put to rest..
However, the argument that he was facing the Steelers D line and that somehow makes it ok to get destroyed is silly as well. A rough game is a rough game it happens to all players. Really if you can’t handle the Steelers line because they are that much better than you, you don’t belong to be in the NFL to begin with. If you have a player that can only block bad and mediocre defenses he’s useless to you really. A player doesn’t need to dominate, but he does need to be good enough that you have some confidence he can handle things regardless of who you are playing. I get that you don’t expect as much against a dominant opponent, but you can’t just say it’s ok to suck against X, Y, and Z because they are better than you.
That being said, it’s 1 game and even if it was the worst game you have ever seen an O lineman play you can’t assume a player, especially at a new position, is terrible by that. That’s just assuming too much from one game. He may work out, he may not. I certainly hope he does but if not you try the next guy. Just hold off on broad proclamations.
But in the end if you aren’t worried about the Giants O line you aren’t being honest. Doesn’t matter who the coaches are, or even the players. Until it’s not a problem its still an issue, and regardless of who we played there was lot of awful happening last night on the line. Optimism is good, but confidence in them seems ludicrous to me.
My problem with this is that it reeks of static. There's no allowance for ability to grow and/or improve.
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most of this and people get way too annoyed. Gates was not the worst OL I’ve ever seen that is a silly statement. I didn’t watch him directly to see exactly how bad he played but nonetheless it is one game.
However, the argument that he was facing the Steelers D line and that somehow makes it ok to get destroyed is silly as well. A rough game is a rough game it happens to all players. Really if you can’t handle the Steelers line because they are that much better than you, you don’t belong to be in the NFL to begin with. If you have a player that can only block bad and mediocre defenses he’s useless to you really. A player doesn’t need to dominate, but he does need to be good enough that you have some confidence he can handle things regardless of who you are playing. I get that you don’t expect as much against a dominant opponent, but you can’t just say it’s ok to suck against X, Y, and Z because they are better than you.
That being said, it’s 1 game and even if it was the worst game you have ever seen an O lineman play you can’t assume a player, especially at a new position, is terrible by that. That’s just assuming too much from one game. He may work out, he may not. I certainly hope he does but if not you try the next guy. Just hold off on broad proclamations.
But in the end if you aren’t worried about the Giants O line you aren’t being honest. Doesn’t matter who the coaches are, or even the players. Until it’s not a problem its still an issue, and regardless of who we played there was lot of awful happening last night on the line. Optimism is good, but confidence in them seems ludicrous to me.
My problem with this is that it reeks of static. There's no allowance for ability to grow and/or improve.
If you're being fair, there's a ton of caveats in that post that caution against a static view (emphasis above mine).
Why am I not saying, "See, I told you so"?
Because, it would be the same thing as having "idiot" tattooed on my forehead.
Could there possibly be a person that does not completely understand that an OL need time to gel? To work together, to learn about each other. To trust one another. That does not come from practice. It comes from playing together in the trenches when it matters.
How many games have these guys played together? ZERO
Is center an easy position to learn? Hell fucking no.
What was a realistic expectation for our OL against that front 7? Be Honest, The Steeler's were licking their fucking chops all week.
Maybe this was a shit show plan, maybe your complaints will turn out to be true and legitimate.
After week one, without a single preseason game, the vitriol makes you look foolish. I feel bad for some of you. You should be embarrassed, I am embarrassed for you.