No more Eli debate! I'm so glad it was not Eli Manning on that 19 play drive that ended like that! This morning would have been a complete nightmare.
That said, Jones was (IMO) awesome last night in those circumstances, and I'm really excited about him going forward. That's our franchise QB. That was a tough, tough defense, he hung in there, delivered strikes under intense pressure, and made great plays with his legs. Plus, he protected the ball better with both hands.
Back to that 19 play drive. Ending notwithstanding, that was an insane drive by Jones with multiple 3rd downs converted, including a 3rd and long from near his own endzone against what could be one of the top defenses in the NFL at a critical point in the game. And multiple conversions with his legs. He sees the field extremely well!
I think Jones was outstanding last night, and we just need to get better around him, get our running game going, and we will be okay.
As far as the running game, I think they'll figure it out. They need to get some misdirection in, maybe another back back there in the I-form or something. They can't just put Saquon back there by himself and let the defense tee off on him like that. Plus, those were blown assignments last night, not scheme problems. I expect us to get better there.
Daniel Jones is the shit. He made some insane throws last night.
But that mistake was as critical as it was boneheaded. Your QB has to understand the game situation and he seemed to be in "watch this" mode rather than thinking clearly.
It's hard for me to read posts here today without getting pissed... lol
Not sure what people were expecting with a brand new staff, brand new offensive and defensive schemes, a bunch of new players, a completely reshuffled OL, and no preseason.
I was expecting to get completely smoked, so the fact that we were fairly competitive on both sides of the ball until DJ threw that RZ interception was pretty impressive to me. We have work to do but I'm not sure why people are losing their minds based on the above lol. It's sad.
Yeah it would be great to see him run wild as they are trying splitting him wide, which is good because he cannot block well.
Our inside OL play, granted against a great DL team made us seem small in many aspects.
For the more analytical fan, I wonder the take on his first INT. The knee-jerk reaction was how can he not see Watt drop into coverage? But was that just a really good defensive play or a throw that shouldn't have been made? It also looked like Engram was really well covered.
To me the play of the game was when he was sacked on the blind side by Williams and that ball didn't move. Hopefully that's a sign of things to come.
I like Jones. He made some good plays last night, especially on that drive. But that INT was an absolute backbreaker. I think we have a good chance to win if we get a TD there.
Yeah it would be great to see him run wild as they are trying splitting him wide, which is good because he cannot block well.
Our inside OL play, granted against a great DL team made us seem small in many aspects.
How many teams have the front 7 the Steelers do? That is probably the best front seven in football by a wide margin. So I do not expect other teams will have the Steelers success run blitzing.
In addition to how bad of a decision that was at such a critical moment, what concerns me is that he did the same thing last year. Not realizing how fast NFL players are and they get to him faster than he expects resulting in a turnover. Turnovers are killers to any momentum and have proven to drastically reduce your chances of winning.
j/k, but seriously I don't know what Jones will become, but I really hope it's a legit franchise QB so all the know-it-all experts have to eat shit sandwiches. I thought he played well last night, but the mistake at the end of the long drive was the turning point of the game. Sort of makes any assessment sort of like "other than that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?"
People act like he intentionally threw it up there like that. His arm got batted. It happens.
People act like he intentionally threw it up there like that. His arm got batted. It happens.
who acts like he intentionally threw it up there like that?
He waited too long to get rid of the ball and then when he should have taken a sack he tried to force it and misjudged how close the defender was. Even without intent it's a boneheaded play.
His coach didn't mince words either when talking about - no need for the fans to.
my sentiments echo the head coach.
If we take a step back from what we saw and just focus on the numbers:
26/41 (63%) - solid even with a few drops in there
279 yards (6.8 ypc)
2 td/2 int
4 carries for 22 yards, 2 first downs rushing
3 sacks taken
8/15 on 3rd downs
1/1 on 4th down
28 minutes of possession with 0 running game
Against a very good and completely healthy defense, in game 1 of a new season/system, with 0 running game, that's a pretty solid overall effort.
Obviously you want the 2 picks back but big picture there was a lot to like in that game. There are many degrees of worse it could have been - just look at how the 3 young QBs he's most frequently compared with did (Haskins, Mayfield, Darnold).
There was also the open-hand fumble. Had the Steelers recovered, they would have challenged and won. So another turnover was avoided. It could have easily been otherwise. The Giants were lucky.
Jones made plays with his legs that Eli could never make. He was pressured 26 times. That is consistent for a Steeler defense that hit the quarterback 30% of the time when a pass was called last season.
Engram and Barkley certainly didn't help him. Forget the rushing line. Barkley was terrible in pass protection. I remember how ebullient Carl Banks was the night the Giants selected him. That thing about the defense now being forced "to back off?" PS CB-moronic statement. Do you want that one back? The cerebral method to neutralizing Barkley on passing plays is to keep him in. See Buddy Ryan vs Dave Meggett, for example.
The thing about Jones is he came from a program that did not expect to win. I mean their big game is Wake. Those guys get used to taking low-chance-of-succeeding gambles. A "What the Hey" attitude. Phil Simms coming from Morehead St, where his team was the designated the "Home Coming" opponent. He had to learn how you stay in a close game when he came to the Giants. In short, Jones has not been hardwired for victory. That's going to be task for Judge and Garrett. I'm generally optimistic. But it is hardly a done deal. Right now he's closer to a Jay Cutler career than some of the other comparisons I see being made.
I am solid in support of the staff and Jones. The Giants are still short players. But some of their blue blood , whether they drafted them (Barkley and Engram) or others did (Peppers) have to do more in these games.
This team is very new, I think they are on the right path towards success.
This team is very new, I think they are on the right path towards success.
That's a great point.
There was also the open-hand fumble. Had the Steelers recovered, they would have challenged and won. So another turnover was avoided. It could have easily been otherwise. The Giants were lucky.
Jones made plays with his legs that Eli could never make. He was pressured 26 times. That is consistent for a Steeler defense that hit the quarterback 30% of the time when a pass was called last season.
Engram and Barkley certainly didn't help him. Forget the rushing line. Barkley was terrible in pass protection. I remember how ebullient Carl Banks was the night the Giants selected him. That thing about the defense now being forced "to back off?" PS CB-moronic statement. Do you want that one back? The cerebral method to neutralizing Barkley on passing plays is to keep him in. See Buddy Ryan vs Dave Meggett, for example.
The thing about Jones is he came from a program that did not expect to win. I mean their big game is Wake. Those guys get used to taking low-chance-of-succeeding gambles. A "What the Hey" attitude. Phil Simms coming from Morehead St, where his team was the designated the "Home Coming" opponent. He had to learn how you stay in a close game when he came to the Giants. In short, Jones has not been hardwired for victory. That's going to be task for Judge and Garrett. I'm generally optimistic. But it is hardly a done deal. Right now he's closer to a Jay Cutler career than some of the other comparisons I see being made.
I am solid in support of the staff and Jones. The Giants are still short players. But some of their blue blood , whether they drafted them (Barkley and Engram) or others did (Peppers) have to do more in these games.
I find it hard tp pin that on Jones. It's not like he held the ball too long. He was in the process of throwing and his arm got hit. Is that really a QB mistake? That's a pass pro failure. It's not like he was running around holding it out like a loaf of bread, he was in the process of his throwing motion.
But the open handed fumble? I can't see how that's his fault.
And he hasn't even played 16 full games yet.
That isn't to bash Eli at all, but it's to show even in his fourth season, Eli was still ascending as a player. Daniel Jones is 13 games into his career and last night played one of the best defenses in the league with his running game completely and utterly taken away from him with nowhere near the OLine talent that the 2007 Giants had.
People need to relax alittle.
People need to relax.
That isn't to bash Eli at all, but it's to show even in his fourth season, Eli was still ascending as a player. Daniel Jones is 13 games into his career and last night played one of the best defenses in the league with his running game completely and utterly taken away from him with nowhere near the OLine talent that the 2007 Giants had.
People need to relax alittle.
People need to relax.
Hi Dave, I agree. Good post.
There is no defending that throw. He tried to force a throw in a critical situation instead of realizing it wasn't there and eat it like a seasoned vet would. Judge said as much. It is not acceptable.
Jones isn't a seasoned vet yet. He will learn. But that throw was not "oops, someone tipped his arm." It was a boneheaded mistake at a critical juncture of the game.
Some will read this as they did all of the Eli threads and call me a Jones hater, but I like what he did for 98% of the game. But I can also realize young, talented players can make rookie mistakes. It wouldn't hurt if people could start acknowledging that.
There is no defending that throw. He tried to force a throw in a critical situation instead of realizing it wasn't there and eat it like a seasoned vet would. Judge said as much. It is not acceptable.
Jones isn't a seasoned vet yet. He will learn. But that throw was not "oops, someone tipped his arm." It was a boneheaded mistake at a critical juncture of the game.
Some will read this as they did all of the Eli threads and call me a Jones hater, but I like what he did for 98% of the game. But I can also realize young, talented players can make rookie mistakes. It wouldn't hurt if people could start acknowledging that.
I don't see anybody defending the decision Jones made. It was a mistake, but a correctable one.
Other than that, I don't see anybody calling anybody on this thread a Jones hater, either. Do you have this thread confused with another?
There is another thread right now starting with "was that play really so bad?" Of course it was! It effectively ended the game.
Apologies for blurring this thread with the other Jones threads on here today.
There is another thread right now starting with "was that play really so bad?" Of course it was! It effectively ended the game.
Apologies for blurring this thread with the other Jones threads on here today.
Mike, unfortunately, "either or" thinking is often used in discussion. I would say the Jones' play was a mistake that young Qb's tend to make.
This is how it begins. Always trying to assign fault away from the QB or to the QB.
It was a bad mistake. Full stop.
It can be corrected. Full stop.
This is how it begins. Always trying to assign fault away from the QB or to the QB.
It was a bad mistake. Full stop.
It can be corrected. Full stop.
Hi Gman, but it is important to understand why mistakes happen, right? Perhaps to fans like us it looks obvious who made what mistake, but sometimes there are details we don't know about that help describe why a mistake happened.
The decision aspect of it is correctable. But was there an awareness aspect of it as well, where he simply didn't realize the defenders speed and/or proximity? That's the one possibility that concerns me.
Knowing when you can get the ball away, and when you can't and knowing to eat it is the next stage in DJs development I would like to see. I think it will eliminate throws like that one and some of the fumbles in the pocket as well.
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That's pretty much it. It's a correctable mistake.
The decision aspect of it is correctable. But was there an awareness aspect of it as well, where he simply didn't realize the defenders speed and/or proximity? That's the one possibility that concerns me.
True. See if it's better down the road. Internal clock matter.
For the more analytical fan, I wonder the take on his first INT. The knee-jerk reaction was how can he not see Watt drop into coverage? But was that just a really good defensive play or a throw that shouldn't have been made? It also looked like Engram was really well covered.
To me the play of the game was when he was sacked on the blind side by Williams and that ball didn't move. Hopefully that's a sign of things to come.
The 2nd INT was also a good defensive play by Dupree. But, it was a bad decision by Jones. I do like that he saw an opening to hi Slayton in the corner. However, he slowed up to make the throw. He has to know that is not the right move there.
This is how it begins. Always trying to assign fault away from the QB or to the QB.
It was a bad mistake. Full stop.
It can be corrected. Full stop.
I like this. The board used to go crazy over every Eli turnover and for some innate reason, people wanted to assign blame for each mistake, even if they couldn't tell if it was a route error or a bad throw.
Then again, Eli was docked "points" by a couple real doozies here who still contend that getting a fingertip on an Eli throw in the SB was akin to an "easy INT" that was dropped. as if we shouldn't have the Lombardi that year.
All I can say, I’m pleased as shit we drafted this guy. Perfect for NY, even if his performances at times will be less than.
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is every INT or incomplete pass gets over-analyzed to see who was at fault.
This is how it begins. Always trying to assign fault away from the QB or to the QB.
It was a bad mistake. Full stop.
It can be corrected. Full stop.
I like this. The board used to go crazy over every Eli turnover and for some innate reason, people wanted to assign blame for each mistake, even if they couldn't tell if it was a route error or a bad throw.
Then again, Eli was docked "points" by a couple real doozies here who still contend that getting a fingertip on an Eli throw in the SB was akin to an "easy INT" that was dropped. as if we shouldn't have the Lombardi that year.
Unfortunately, we are about to go into the DJ era with the same madness with fumbles and INT's. I see it already starting.
It's going to ruin every decent conversation about the team.