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I'm really baffled by the negativity re: Jones

Sonic Youth : 9/15/2020 9:30 am
I'm going to preface this by mentioning that I wasn't a huge fan of the Jones pick at the time, and while I liked what I saw last year, I wasn't (and still aren't) convinced he's a slam dunk upper echelon QB in the making.

Having said all that, considering the relative inexperience of Jones and the terrible team he played with last year, I'm not sure what people saw last night that made them so sour on Jones.

Sure, the INT was bad, but those are growing pains and really wasn't anything we hadn't seen plenty of times from Eli. On top of that, it was his first red zone pick ever.


On the other hand, he seemed to feel the pocket way better, and made a visual, concerted effort to address the fumbles. He was great on 3rd down, and showed off grit and moxy when running for a conversion on a 3rd and 9 on that long drive. There was more arm strength on the deep TD to Slayton than I remember seeing all of last year. Additionally, he looks bigger, stronger, and way more in command.

Plus, he did this all with an abysmal run game (I know the OL sucks at run blocking, but Barkley has to stop dancing around behind the line - that's a different topic though).

Sure, it wasn't perfect, but this is what, his 14th game starting? Not sure how people can't be encouraged with the progress we've seen.

If the OL can come together a bit to give some semblance of a run game, and eventually invest in a true WR#1 (could be Slayton, but another needs to be added), then Jones will put up numbers. He looks like the goods.

If this season went south (e.g. Jones got hurt) and Trevor Lawrence/Fields is available, I'd obviously take Lawrence/Fields, but outside of injuries, people should let that pipe dream die. Jones is good good already for this team to be that bad, and it seems pretty obvious to me that there will be games this year that that he will win on his own. He's about to turn that corner where he can put the team on his back and will us to victory, it's clearly coming this season.
I'm not sure where you are seeing the negativity on Jones  
Mike from Ohio : 9/15/2020 9:33 am : link
I have been on many of the threads this morning and much of it seems to be "great game, except for..." I don't see how that take is even slightly negative.

Jones played an excellent game. But the most significant play of the game was the one where he made a boneheaded decision that essentially sealed the loss. The question is does he learn from that?

Time will tell.
I would say the general consensus  
Jalapeno : 9/15/2020 9:34 am : link
here on BBI is nothing but love for and confidence in Jones.

Are you referring to outside media?
He looks improved all around  
JonC : 9/15/2020 9:35 am : link
The goal line INT just cannot happen, he had a ton of time and the rush was in his line of sight. Throw it away! He did so later in the game, which is good (after the fact, because this INT took the winds out of their sails).
exactly  
KDavies : 9/15/2020 9:35 am : link
he hasn't even played a full season. The game was entirely on his shoulders offensively, pretty much. Bad OL play. Bad drops early by Engram and Barkley. Bad blocking by TEs and RB.

Jones is going to be a very good QB. He made the two huge mistakes yesterday, but overall I am thrilled with the way he has playing.

Who do these people want as their young QB? The year earlier, should they have taken Rosen or Darnold? Allen?
Mike, the game thread had a ton of negativity  
Jim in Forest Hills : 9/15/2020 9:35 am : link
especially after the pick, which I understand.
I think I'm letting the game thread color my views  
Sonic Youth : 9/15/2020 9:35 am : link
and as a BBI veteran, I guess I should have known better than to draw a judgement from that.
I thought he played well.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/15/2020 9:36 am : link
But the 2nd INT was a freaking killer. Destroyed all the momenteum.
Jones has the goods  
UConn4523 : 9/15/2020 9:37 am : link
still tries to do too much on occasion, but you have to like that mentality (we did ok with Eli I think). I don't want him changing his decision making too much, he needs to play with that aggression. We were in this game due to his mobility and passing accuracy - both big pluses in todays NFL.

He took some big shots lastnight and didn't cough it up, which is also a big plus. If we can get the run game going then I like the future of this offense.
There is NO way any Giants fan  
NYG007 : 9/15/2020 9:39 am : link
Should be disappointed in Jones. Read any respectable reporter, NFL player on twitter, they all raved what he did when facing 5-6 guys constantly about to pummel him. The INT in the end zone (btw, the FIRST RED ZONE INT OF HIS CAREER!!!) can not happen. However, he will learn from it. He was trying to throw it away, but no one in the entire game blocked Bud Dupree.
RE: exactly  
Sonic Youth : 9/15/2020 9:39 am : link
In comment 14972766 KDavies said:
Quote:
he hasn't even played a full season. The game was entirely on his shoulders offensively, pretty much. Bad OL play. Bad drops early by Engram and Barkley. Bad blocking by TEs and RB.

Jones is going to be a very good QB. He made the two huge mistakes yesterday, but overall I am thrilled with the way he has playing.

Who do these people want as their young QB? The year earlier, should they have taken Rosen or Darnold? Allen?
For real. At this point, I will eat crow regarding Darnold and Rosen. I never really wanted Allen, and was wrong there also as I didn't think he'd end up being one of the best QBs from last year (I thought Jackson had a shot to be as electric as he's been).

Regardless though, watching Josh Allen QB the Giants would give me a heart attack. He's entertaining as hell to watch because he plays football like he's drunk and playing in a backyard (that Bills-Texans playoff game was insane... 50 year bombs to fullbacks, 20 year runs, 10 yard sacks, insane arm strength). Fun to watch, but not the type of QB I'd want on my team at this point in time (granted, he could put it all together). I also think it's only a matter of time till Allen gets seriously hurt with the way the Bills use him.
comparing to the 2017 class (other than Jackson)  
UConn4523 : 9/15/2020 9:40 am : link
is looking pretty damn good. Forget Mayfield and Darnold, Jones is further ahead than both in less than half the time. Josh Allen can be a good one but he has major stretches throwing the ball terribly. Coupled with his 2 fumbles on designed run plays and I'm not sure what the future holds for him (but so far looks better than the other 2).

Happy as hell with Jones. Continue to improve the line and run game and we should be in good shape.
Jones is going..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/15/2020 9:41 am : link
to win us a lot of games in his career, but last night was a game where momentum was huge.

The first INT came after Slayton's TD and a forced punt. Points there, or even an extended drive puts Pitt in a hole. Instead, they have the ball in Giants territory and get a TD.

The next INT comes on the heels of a 19 play drive. Punch it in, or even get 3 points, and you've held the ball for a ton of minutes and are within one score or have the lead. Instead, that was brutally deflating and Pitt drove down to get a FG.

The goaline INT is one he just can't make. He could have run OOB or thrown the ball to the pylon. You don't throw across the body with a rusher on your heels. You just can't take that risk for little reward
For the record  
5BowlsSoon : 9/15/2020 9:42 am : link
I LOVE jones...he played great last night save that one play. I think we still lose even if he throws it away. We probably get a FG AND ITS 16-13. The giant defense was not stopping the run and Big Ben on third downs so I’m pretty sure we lose anyhow.

Nevertheless, Yes, Jones probably should have thrown it away, but he is the type of kid who wants to make a play on every down, so he held it longer than he should have. He will learn.....

But he looked so quick, much stronger, his accuracy is amazing, and HE DIDNT FUMBLE WHEN HIT.

We should be very very pleased to have him hopefully for 15 more years.
RE: Mike, the game thread had a ton of negativity  
Mike from Ohio : 9/15/2020 9:43 am : link
In comment 14972767 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
especially after the pick, which I understand.


Fair point. I don't even look at game threads on BBI. That is just emotional reactions. I was referring to the posts today where people can think a little more clearly.
I wouldn't even count the first Int against him.  
Fred-in-Florida : 9/15/2020 9:54 am : link
That was a great play by Watt. The second one well that's another story.

Later near the end of the game he was in a similar situation, being chased and rolling left, he wisely threw it away. Okay he learned from it that's what we want.

There’s little to no negativity that I see.  
Big Blue '56 : 9/15/2020 10:06 am : link
Mostly supportive and happy he’s here. Negativity towards the critical INT, but that’s about it.
all well and good, but at some point, you have to start winning  
GiantNatty : 9/15/2020 10:06 am : link
I'm not saying that we're at that point just yet . . . but it's getting close.

If you want to be great, you have to go out and beat a Ben Roesthlisberger. Last night was a golden opportunity. At home, with a chance to take the lead well into the game, against an aging Roethlisberger, and with a young team behind him that wants nothing more than for him to be their leader. Instead, it was Jones's mistake that was - without question - the turning point of the game.

I like Jones a lot, but he has to start asserting himself in this league. Flashes will keep him his job for now, but at some point he has to start closing.

A lot of horses can run fast, but the truly great ones are racehorses at heart. They kick it into another gear and will fight you for it at the end. Jones has shown that he can run fast, but wondering whether he has the will to win is not an unfair concern for any QB, never mind a young one with talent whose mistakes are costing them games.
You should never be baffled by fan  
joeinpa : 9/15/2020 10:07 am : link
Negativity.

You should also rarely take it seriously; It is often an irrational response to the emotion of being a fan.

Specifically with Jones, there are some who were so opposed to this pick that they focus on the negative, ignore the positive. This is preferable to admitting they were wrong.

For others, it s an Eli hangover. This is the guy that replaced him, before his fans were ready to move on. As a result they will not cut Jones the same slack they gave Eli.

Hard to believe an objective look at Jones would be more negativity an positive
DJ's  
dlauster : 9/15/2020 10:07 am : link
mistakes always seem to be mental ones. That's why many of us are fearful. He has excellent physical skills, but if the light bulb does not come on soon, I worry it will not ever.

That being said give him 8 more games. If the killer turnovers haven't ceased by that point, then I'd say we are in a real quagmire.
His internal clock  
Carson53 : 9/15/2020 10:07 am : link
still needs to be quicker, he played pretty well.
I wouldn't say he played an excellent game.
Twice in the RZ, without TD's hurt.
Early in the game, and then the long drive with the pick.
RE: I wouldn't even count the first Int against him.  
Sonic Youth : 9/15/2020 10:10 am : link
In comment 14972809 Fred-in-Florida said:
Quote:
That was a great play by Watt. The second one well that's another story.

Later near the end of the game he was in a similar situation, being chased and rolling left, he wisely threw it away. Okay he learned from it that's what we want.
Agree about the 1st pick, that was Watt just being a gamer. 9/10 times, that ball is just batted to the ground.

FMiC, I agree that those INTs are boneheaded and killers, but I'm willing to give a pass in terms of learning curves. Jones isn't going to be perfect right away, but he's moving the right direction and is already one of the best offensive players on the team. He's definitely not game managing, and that's encouraging.

Honestly, the short passing game was working so well that it might have made sense for Garrett to abandon the run earlier, though I completely understand why he didn't.

Secondly, you're right, it was totally a momentum game. There were a couple key moments that the game hinged on, and the Steelers are just a more talented team that's been together longer which fleshed itself out in these moments.

I am encouraged though because there's a *version* of a game where the Giants win.

If 2-3 of the 4 things happened, Giants have above a 50% shot of winning the game IMO: Punch it in for 7 after the muffed punt, stop the 2 minute drill before the half, grab the fumble that JuJu fell on, and get points after that 19 play drive.
RE: There’s little to no negativity that I see.  
Sonic Youth : 9/15/2020 10:11 am : link
In comment 14972842 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
Mostly supportive and happy he’s here. Negativity towards the critical INT, but that’s about it.
Mentioned this earlier, but I was basing it on the game thread, which is admittedly probably the wrong forum to take the temperature of BBI's consensus.
The good news  
Carson53 : 9/15/2020 10:11 am : link
were no fumbles, that needs to continue.
Just reading the game thread...  
BillKo : 9/15/2020 10:15 am : link
...the comments are just over the top whenever a mistake is made! Mistakes happen in NFL football.

QBs don't play perfect games, especially young ones. And Daniel Jones is a very young QB. Who looks exceptionally good after 13 games to me.

I think a lot of people on this board are just football frustrated because of the lack of success over the last eight years.

Daniel Jones has zero to do with 2012 thru 2018. Let the QB progress and go thru some growing pains and we'll probably be in great shape at the QB position.

RE: DJ's  
Sonic Youth : 9/15/2020 10:16 am : link
In comment 14972847 dlauster said:
Quote:
mistakes always seem to be mental ones. That's why many of us are fearful. He has excellent physical skills, but if the light bulb does not come on soon, I worry it will not ever.

That being said give him 8 more games. If the killer turnovers haven't ceased by that point, then I'd say we are in a real quagmire.
Eli was making these plays well into the 2007 regular season. Jones looks better than Eli. I know it's a different era and QBs come up quicker, so I'm not saying Jones should have as much leash as Eli did, but 8 games means that Jones will be evaluated after less than a year and a half of play. That's less than Mayfield has even played, let alone someone like Darnold.

There's going to be a learning curve, I don't think it's realistic to expect him to be his fully realized self after 22 games.
It happens, hell Brady had a pick 6 from the Saints 10 Sunday  
PatersonPlank : 9/15/2020 10:21 am : link
Every QB does this. All he has to do is limit it over the course of the season. If you notice he did throw the ball away in the same situation 2 times later in the game, so he gets it. He will clean that up.
I screamed  
PaulN : 9/15/2020 10:25 am : link
Last night you stupid idiot after the second pick, and I was very disapointed in him after both picks, but that doesn't mean I am negative on Jones, he made a lot of nice plays. But he continues to make crucial mistakes that hurt our chances to win games, people here think he will learn, and I want to believe that, but it must show up on the field and lead to wins, until that happens, its like waiting for something to happen that you know will.
Jones faced pressure  
JB_in_DC : 9/15/2020 10:31 am : link
on 26 drop backs per PFF. 6 more than any other QB in the league this week.
PFF - Jones Week 1 - ( New Window )
RE: Mike, the game thread had a ton of negativity  
djm : 9/15/2020 10:31 am : link
In comment 14972767 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
especially after the pick, which I understand.


the game threads are one part emotion, one part dumb, and one part rational thinking. We all get emotional during the games but usually most fans come to their senses a few hours or days later. Those threads aren't an accurate depiction of how most fans feel around here.
If I feel negativity with Jones it's that he's a tantalizingly talent-  
Heisenberg : 9/15/2020 10:33 am : link
ed QB that also makes really bad plays that lose football games. We can hope that he gets that under control. But I've also watched enough QBs over the years to know that some guys always stay that way -prone to big mistakes. I hope he's not and time will tell. But he needs to do it.
RE: Jones faced pressure  
5BowlsSoon : 9/15/2020 10:33 am : link
In comment 14972890 JB_in_DC said:
Quote:
on 26 drop backs per PFF. 6 more than any other QB in the league this week. PFF - Jones Week 1 - ( New Window )


Not surprising....Steelers front 7 were coming hard to stop Barkley, so if he didn’t get the ball, go after Jones.
Odd thread to start. Jones is getting a lot of good and some bad  
LBH15 : 9/15/2020 10:36 am : link
comments by posters which basically mirrors what you wrote in the OP.

Except the OP wants to draft a new QB next year if Jones gets hurt.

Goal line Int  
Rolyrock : 9/15/2020 10:40 am : link
Was more of the defense making a play, not Jones making poor decision. IMHO
RE: Odd thread to start. Jones is getting a lot of good and some bad  
Sonic Youth : 9/15/2020 10:45 am : link
In comment 14972905 LBH15 said:
Quote:
comments by posters which basically mirrors what you wrote in the OP.

Except the OP wants to draft a new QB next year if Jones gets hurt.
You should try reading the whole thread, there was a lot of negativity on the game thread.

And don't turn it around on me man -- drafting Lawrence (or Fields) if you have a shot at them is a no brainer. Just because I'm turning into a big believe of Jones doesn't mean I think he'll be better long term than Trevor Lawrence, who is the best prospect since Luck (potentially even better).
RE: RE: Odd thread to start. Jones is getting a lot of good and some bad  
LBH15 : 9/15/2020 10:54 am : link
In comment 14972920 Sonic Youth said:
Quote:
In comment 14972905 LBH15 said:


Quote:


comments by posters which basically mirrors what you wrote in the OP.

Except the OP wants to draft a new QB next year if Jones gets hurt.


You should try reading the whole thread, there was a lot of negativity on the game thread.

And don't turn it around on me man -- drafting Lawrence (or Fields) if you have a shot at them is a no brainer. Just because I'm turning into a big believe of Jones doesn't mean I think he'll be better long term than Trevor Lawrence, who is the best prospect since Luck (potentially even better).


Well man, if you are looking for ridiculous short-sighted negativity and hot-takes, enjoy reading game threads. The post-game threads have some too but are far more balanced thinking and better align to your OP.

And drafting another QB is not a no-brainer, at least I hope. Talent is needed still in a lot of places and not just an upgraded QB.
Even the DC talking heads  
DC Gmen Fan : 9/15/2020 11:02 am : link
were impressed with Jones, and the Giants in general.
RE: RE: RE: Odd thread to start. Jones is getting a lot of good and some bad  
Sonic Youth : 9/15/2020 11:08 am : link
In comment 14972948 LBH15 said:
Quote:
In comment 14972920 Sonic Youth said:


Quote:


In comment 14972905 LBH15 said:


Quote:


comments by posters which basically mirrors what you wrote in the OP.

Except the OP wants to draft a new QB next year if Jones gets hurt.


You should try reading the whole thread, there was a lot of negativity on the game thread.

And don't turn it around on me man -- drafting Lawrence (or Fields) if you have a shot at them is a no brainer. Just because I'm turning into a big believe of Jones doesn't mean I think he'll be better long term than Trevor Lawrence, who is the best prospect since Luck (potentially even better).



Well man, if you are looking for ridiculous short-sighted negativity and hot-takes, enjoy reading game threads. The post-game threads have some too but are far more balanced thinking and better align to your OP.

And drafting another QB is not a no-brainer, at least I hope. Talent is needed still in a lot of places and not just an upgraded QB.
In defense of my drafting a QB statement, I'm of the mindset that if you think Lawrence can be on the level of Mahomes, you don't turn that down.

I'm not saying I'd draft any QB, I'm saying I'd draft one of these two coming out. If it wasn't for Lawrence (and MAYBE Fields), I would be vehemently against taking a QB.
Based on last night - one game so let's see it for 15 more -  
arniefez : 9/15/2020 11:08 am : link
Last night's tiny no pre season no fans covid 2020 season sample size. The Giants have their HC, QB & LT in place.

Those are 3 of the 4 most important parts of a contending NFL team. The 4th being a game wrecking edge rusher which they don't have at all.

They also have a take the top off WR a huge position to fill too. The rest of the positions are filled with about half and half average starters and replacement players.

Until most of the replacement players are gone or backups and until there are game wreckers on defense what we saw last night is what we'll see against playoff teams.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Odd thread to start. Jones is getting a lot of good and some bad  
Bill L : 9/15/2020 11:12 am : link
In comment 14972978 Sonic Youth said:
Quote:
In comment 14972948 LBH15 said:


Quote:


In comment 14972920 Sonic Youth said:


Quote:


In comment 14972905 LBH15 said:


Quote:


comments by posters which basically mirrors what you wrote in the OP.

Except the OP wants to draft a new QB next year if Jones gets hurt.


You should try reading the whole thread, there was a lot of negativity on the game thread.

And don't turn it around on me man -- drafting Lawrence (or Fields) if you have a shot at them is a no brainer. Just because I'm turning into a big believe of Jones doesn't mean I think he'll be better long term than Trevor Lawrence, who is the best prospect since Luck (potentially even better).



Well man, if you are looking for ridiculous short-sighted negativity and hot-takes, enjoy reading game threads. The post-game threads have some too but are far more balanced thinking and better align to your OP.

And drafting another QB is not a no-brainer, at least I hope. Talent is needed still in a lot of places and not just an upgraded QB.

In defense of my drafting a QB statement, I'm of the mindset that if you think Lawrence can be on the level of Mahomes, you don't turn that down.

I'm not saying I'd draft any QB, I'm saying I'd draft one of these two coming out. If it wasn't for Lawrence (and MAYBE Fields), I would be vehemently against taking a QB.


I wouldn't. If we had the number one pick, the margin of difference between Lawrence and Jones might be evident but I doubt it would be as much as it would be for a different position, liked Edge. It's the net that is most important.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Odd thread to start. Jones is getting a lot of good and some bad  
LBH15 : 9/15/2020 11:14 am : link
In comment 14972978 Sonic Youth said:
Quote:
In comment 14972948 LBH15 said:


Quote:


In comment 14972920 Sonic Youth said:


Quote:


In comment 14972905 LBH15 said:


Quote:


comments by posters which basically mirrors what you wrote in the OP.

Except the OP wants to draft a new QB next year if Jones gets hurt.


You should try reading the whole thread, there was a lot of negativity on the game thread.

And don't turn it around on me man -- drafting Lawrence (or Fields) if you have a shot at them is a no brainer. Just because I'm turning into a big believe of Jones doesn't mean I think he'll be better long term than Trevor Lawrence, who is the best prospect since Luck (potentially even better).



Well man, if you are looking for ridiculous short-sighted negativity and hot-takes, enjoy reading game threads. The post-game threads have some too but are far more balanced thinking and better align to your OP.

And drafting another QB is not a no-brainer, at least I hope. Talent is needed still in a lot of places and not just an upgraded QB.

In defense of my drafting a QB statement, I'm of the mindset that if you think Lawrence can be on the level of Mahomes, you don't turn that down.

I'm not saying I'd draft any QB, I'm saying I'd draft one of these two coming out. If it wasn't for Lawrence (and MAYBE Fields), I would be vehemently against taking a QB.


That is fair. I just don't know if Lawrence and/or Fields is Mahomes.

What I do know Lawrence isn't...he isn't an edge rusher, center, wide receiver, outside LB or cornerback. Some combination of which this team could use by trading a very high pick if Giants have one.
People who say  
Producer : 9/15/2020 11:20 am : link
"Jones has got the goods" I don't know how much football they watch outside of the Giants.

There are 30 starters in the NFL who make great plays, and plenty of backups. And Jones does make some great plays. Marcus Mariota made a lot of great plays. Kirk Cousins makes a lot of great plays. A QB like Jones, has to eliminate mistakes. If he does I think he is good enough to be a winner and maybe one day an elite player.

He's not Mahomes. He's not Russell Wilson. They got the goods. They are transcendent talents that can even win when they are inconsistent.

Jones flashes some great moments that point to the potential to be a solid NFL starter.
Lets see how he  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/15/2020 11:29 am : link
progresses. We still have the problem of no running game.

He needs to have better situational awareness. That interception after that long drive really hurt the team. Continuing to make those mistakes will have the Giants looking for a new QB. I think if they can get the run game going we will see the type of QB he is. Lot of pressure on any QB without a run game to count on.

Lawrence was not very impressive in the playoffs last year. He has played in a very weak conference. Not sure he is the sure thing most think he is. Fields may be more a system QB and he also has not been very tested imo.
RE: RE: DJ's  
eclipz928 : 9/15/2020 11:40 am : link
In comment 14972864 Sonic Youth said:
Quote:
In comment 14972847 dlauster said:


Quote:


mistakes always seem to be mental ones. That's why many of us are fearful. He has excellent physical skills, but if the light bulb does not come on soon, I worry it will not ever.

That being said give him 8 more games. If the killer turnovers haven't ceased by that point, then I'd say we are in a real quagmire.

Eli was making these plays well into the 2007 regular season. Jones looks better than Eli. I know it's a different era and QBs come up quicker, so I'm not saying Jones should have as much leash as Eli did, but 8 games means that Jones will be evaluated after less than a year and a half of play. That's less than Mayfield has even played, let alone someone like Darnold.

There's going to be a learning curve, I don't think it's realistic to expect him to be his fully realized self after 22 games.

You're not wrong - Daniel Jones needs more time. But the reality is that in today's NFL, QB's aren't given as long of a leash as they used to. Can't really compare it to Eli's generation.

Goff, Wentz, and Prescott followed by Mahomes and Jackson have probably ruined it for young developing QB's for years to come by setting such high standards for Year Two. Fair or not, Jones has to start delivering wins or the Giants may have to reassess the QB position.
RE: RE: RE: DJ's  
Producer : 9/15/2020 11:50 am : link
In comment 14973039 eclipz928 said:
Quote:
In comment 14972864 Sonic Youth said:


Quote:


In comment 14972847 dlauster said:


Quote:


mistakes always seem to be mental ones. That's why many of us are fearful. He has excellent physical skills, but if the light bulb does not come on soon, I worry it will not ever.

That being said give him 8 more games. If the killer turnovers haven't ceased by that point, then I'd say we are in a real quagmire.

Eli was making these plays well into the 2007 regular season. Jones looks better than Eli. I know it's a different era and QBs come up quicker, so I'm not saying Jones should have as much leash as Eli did, but 8 games means that Jones will be evaluated after less than a year and a half of play. That's less than Mayfield has even played, let alone someone like Darnold.

There's going to be a learning curve, I don't think it's realistic to expect him to be his fully realized self after 22 games.


You're not wrong - Daniel Jones needs more time. But the reality is that in today's NFL, QB's aren't given as long of a leash as they used to. Can't really compare it to Eli's generation.

Goff, Wentz, and Prescott followed by Mahomes and Jackson have probably ruined it for young developing QB's for years to come by setting such high standards for Year Two. Fair or not, Jones has to start delivering wins or the Giants may have to reassess the QB position.


If he doesn't show improvement during this season, he's not the guy. However, I do believe he will show improvement.
I think people have short term memory  
Dave on the UWS : 9/15/2020 1:16 pm : link
about Eli. He was as mistake prone as it gets virtually his entire career. DJ only threw 12 INT last year in his 12 starts. Not an over whelming number for a rookie.
RE: RE: RE: DJ's  
BestFeature : 9/15/2020 1:49 pm : link
In comment 14973039 eclipz928 said:
Quote:
In comment 14972864 Sonic Youth said:


Quote:


In comment 14972847 dlauster said:


Quote:


mistakes always seem to be mental ones. That's why many of us are fearful. He has excellent physical skills, but if the light bulb does not come on soon, I worry it will not ever.

That being said give him 8 more games. If the killer turnovers haven't ceased by that point, then I'd say we are in a real quagmire.

Eli was making these plays well into the 2007 regular season. Jones looks better than Eli. I know it's a different era and QBs come up quicker, so I'm not saying Jones should have as much leash as Eli did, but 8 games means that Jones will be evaluated after less than a year and a half of play. That's less than Mayfield has even played, let alone someone like Darnold.

There's going to be a learning curve, I don't think it's realistic to expect him to be his fully realized self after 22 games.


You're not wrong - Daniel Jones needs more time. But the reality is that in today's NFL, QB's aren't given as long of a leash as they used to. Can't really compare it to Eli's generation.

Goff, Wentz, and Prescott followed by Mahomes and Jackson have probably ruined it for young developing QB's for years to come by setting such high standards for Year Two. Fair or not, Jones has to start delivering wins or the Giants may have to reassess the QB position.


But what about Mayfield, Darnold, and Haskins?
RE: RE: RE: DJ's  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/15/2020 2:47 pm : link
In comment 14973039 eclipz928 said:
Quote:


Goff, Wentz, and Prescott followed by Mahomes and Jackson have probably ruined it for young developing QB's for years to come by setting such high standards for Year Two. Fair or not, Jones has to start delivering wins or the Giants may have to reassess the QB position.


Literally all 5 of those QBs operated behind ELITE offensive lines during their sophomore seasons. I’d love to see DJ play with an OL unit of that caliber. The only guy I can think of recently who elevated despite his o-line is Watson. Take away Wentz’ healthy OL and we see what happened on Sunday. As Goff’s OL has gotten worse, so have his numbers. This isn’t a DJ thing. Even as Eli deteriorated, it was hard to judge that accurately behind a unit that was non-competitive for plays, drives, quarters, and entire games. If the argument is “Why can’t DJ win despite what is happening around him?”, then maybe he’ll fall short. He wouldn’t be the first.
RE: People who say  
Giantology : 9/15/2020 2:51 pm : link
In comment 14972997 Producer said:
Quote:
"Jones has got the goods" I don't know how much football they watch outside of the Giants.

There are 30 starters in the NFL who make great plays, and plenty of backups. And Jones does make some great plays. Marcus Mariota made a lot of great plays. Kirk Cousins makes a lot of great plays. A QB like Jones, has to eliminate mistakes. If he does I think he is good enough to be a winner and maybe one day an elite player.

He's not Mahomes. He's not Russell Wilson. They got the goods. They are transcendent talents that can even win when they are inconsistent.

Jones flashes some great moments that point to the potential to be a solid NFL starter.


Mahomes and even Wilson also generally have much more going for them with their OL and run game. It is not fair to say that about Jones when he is facing more pressure than the majority of QBs in the NFL and has no run game to ease the pressure.
RE: RE: RE: DJ's  
Simms11 : 9/15/2020 3:37 pm : link
In comment 14973039 eclipz928 said:
Quote:
In comment 14972864 Sonic Youth said:


Quote:


In comment 14972847 dlauster said:


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mistakes always seem to be mental ones. That's why many of us are fearful. He has excellent physical skills, but if the light bulb does not come on soon, I worry it will not ever.

That being said give him 8 more games. If the killer turnovers haven't ceased by that point, then I'd say we are in a real quagmire.

Eli was making these plays well into the 2007 regular season. Jones looks better than Eli. I know it's a different era and QBs come up quicker, so I'm not saying Jones should have as much leash as Eli did, but 8 games means that Jones will be evaluated after less than a year and a half of play. That's less than Mayfield has even played, let alone someone like Darnold.

There's going to be a learning curve, I don't think it's realistic to expect him to be his fully realized self after 22 games.


You're not wrong - Daniel Jones needs more time. But the reality is that in today's NFL, QB's aren't given as long of a leash as they used to. Can't really compare it to Eli's generation.

Goff, Wentz, and Prescott followed by Mahomes and Jackson have probably ruined it for young developing QB's for years to come by setting such high standards for Year Two. Fair or not, Jones has to start delivering wins or the Giants may have to reassess the QB position.


Something those QBs also had were much better supporting casts. Olines are all top notch. The QB can’t do it on his own. It was Slayton and Jones last night and not much else. I think, in spite of the situation he’s in, he’s played pretty darn good. As the team improves around him so will the teams ability to win games.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Odd thread to start. Jones is getting a lot of good and some bad  
Strahan91 : 9/15/2020 3:57 pm : link
In comment 14972988 Bill L said:
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I wouldn't. If we had the number one pick, the margin of difference between Lawrence and Jones might be evident but I doubt it would be as much as it would be for a different position, liked Edge. It's the net that is most important.

The haul they would get for that pick would be enough to catapult a weak roster towards one that can become a perennial contender with the right selections. That's what I would do. Fill your holes with draft picks on cheap rookie contracts and you can then use your cap space and possibly dip into future draft capital to top off the roster with an elite player (like the Bears did with Khalil Mack).
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