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DJ: Was the interception at the Goal Line really that bad?

Essex : 9/15/2020 10:38 am
on Jones's part. Yeah, you could argue he should have a better internal clock, you should argue he should have tossed it away much earlier and those are all reasonable arguments. But, you can also argue he was trying to make a play and got hit from behind and that is just football. If he would have thrown it into blanket coverage (which maybe he was intending to do, I am not really sure if he was throwing it OB or trying to hit Slayto--I think it was him coming back to the back corner of the endzone) then you can say that is an unforgivable error and being cavalier with the football. But, I just don't think trying to extend a play, even at the goalline is necessarily a bad thing. or something that we should want him to get experience in doing.
I thought the first INT was much worse, tbh. There he completely misread the play and even if Watt didn't do what he did and went directly to the QB, Jones was throwing into good coverage with a million Steelers around only bad things can happen there.

I thought that Jones played well and there is a lot to build on, but our OL really needs to get better. I don't know if it was the Steelers or the weakness of the middle of our line, but they were basically walking through our middle last night and that can't happen.

Anyway, I think there is stuff to building and let's go from there. Hopefully, we win this weekend, I just don't want to be 0-2 for like the umpteenth time in like the last 8 years.
Agree there's a lot..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/15/2020 10:41 am : link
to build on, but I'm not sure what the potential reward was for throwing it across his body while being chased. It didn't look like anyone was wide open and if he were going to throw it away, he has to put it to the sideline.

Killing the momentum of a 19 play drive is disasterous
In a close game, red zone turnovers are a killer.  
x meadowlander : 9/15/2020 10:43 am : link
Kid finally gets over fumbleitus and throws a stinker.

Granted, the Giants were not going to run it in, so the outcome was TD catch, FG or FG miss. INT = FG miss.

But from the 3? Just… ouch.
Obviously, the outcome drives everything  
Bill L : 9/15/2020 10:45 am : link
but I do think that Slayton was open and Jones had a shot.

I also think that Eli makes that same throw (with probably the same outcome). And a number of others, like Rodgers, Mahomes, make that same throw (with probably a different outcome).
yes the TO was bad  
GiantsLaw : 9/15/2020 10:48 am : link
but the fact that we had zero confidence in rushing Barkley there is a big part of the prob.
On the first interception, Watt made a smart athletic  
LBH15 : 9/15/2020 10:49 am : link
play because well, he is a smart athletic defender.

On the second interception, DJ made a poor decision and had two other better options, just run OOB or throw it away.
Jones  
PaulN : 9/15/2020 10:49 am : link
Played well and had plenty of good plays, that play is unforgivable.
RE: Obviously, the outcome drives everything  
jeffusedtobeonwebtv : 9/15/2020 10:49 am : link
In comment 14972918 Bill L said:
Quote:
but I do think that Slayton was open and Jones had a shot.

I also think that Eli makes that same throw (with probably the same outcome). And a number of others, like Rodgers, Mahomes, make that same throw (with probably a different outcome).


LOL, my first reaction was oh no you did not really learn the red zone interception from Eli!
Yes..  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 9/15/2020 10:49 am : link
it was.

Giants fans have PTSD from Eli doing those kinds of things for years. It sucks.

But Jones hasn't even started 16 games yet. So I'll chalk it up as a learning lesson.

RE: Obviously, the outcome drives everything  
Essex : 9/15/2020 10:49 am : link
In comment 14972918 Bill L said:
Quote:
but I do think that Slayton was open and Jones had a shot.

I also think that Eli makes that same throw (with probably the same outcome). And a number of others, like Rodgers, Mahomes, make that same throw (with probably a different outcome).


I get all the arguments you can't turn it over there and that, quite frankly, is true, However you do want your franchise qb to make a play there and I also thought he could have hit Slayton, It just did not work out. That is not to say it wasn't a mistake, but, at the same time, I think I am not sure we want him always to take the conservative route down there. He probably waited a fraction of a second too long.
It's a bad decision  
ryanmkeane : 9/15/2020 10:51 am : link
you have to throw the ball away. I actually loved the play call. Unfortunately the Steelers D sniffed it out like they did all night. As I said previously, if DJ throws that .5 seconds earlier, Slayton was open for the TD.
it was absolutely the turning point in the game  
GiantNatty : 9/15/2020 10:51 am : link
can't happen if he wants to win. he needs to have positive turning points, not ones that cost his team the game (and I like Jones a lot)
Goal Line Interception was a terrible decision  
US1 Giants : 9/15/2020 10:54 am : link
.
RE: It's a bad decision  
Essex : 9/15/2020 10:55 am : link
In comment 14972936 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
you have to throw the ball away. I actually loved the play call. Unfortunately the Steelers D sniffed it out like they did all night. As I said previously, if DJ throws that .5 seconds earlier, Slayton was open for the TD.

Right, but isn't that what we want our QB doing, making that play. Nobody is arguing the outcome wasn't disastrous, I guess my point is that throwing it away is sometimes the right decision and sometimes its not and I am not sure it is as clear cut here with an open Slayton moving to the corner we don't want our QB making that play. I realize this opinion is a bit against the grain, but I saw that replay during the game last night I was like that was almost six on a play where the Steelers originally snuffed it out.
I’m not so sure he wasn’t trying to throw it away.  
Crispino : 9/15/2020 10:55 am : link
He had his arm hit as he tried to throw, and well, we know what happened.
Look asking him to carry the whole offense, where he was even the leading rusher on scrambles, is going to lead to problems. It’s all about the offensive line. Again.

it was bad  
Giantsfan79 : 9/15/2020 10:56 am : link
technique. His momentum running left means he couldn't turn his body and get any momentum behind the throw, he should have tossed it out of bounds or keep the ball and run out of bounds.

it was a gift to Pitt's d-line.
It was Darnoldian  
HomerJones45 : 9/15/2020 10:56 am : link
in its stupidity.
RE: On the first interception, Watt made a smart athletic  
Biteymax22 : 9/15/2020 10:57 am : link
In comment 14972929 LBH15 said:
Quote:
play because well, he is a smart athletic defender.

On the second interception, DJ made a poor decision and had two other better options, just run OOB or throw it away.


Watt did not get enough credit from the announcers on that one. Recognizing the play is one thing, being able to redirect that quickly to get into the lane is another but to actually catch the ball is a whole different dog. Watt, just like his brother, is a hell of a player.
same play going right is a TD imo  
bigblue1124 : 9/15/2020 11:00 am : link
Shit happens but his body position on that entire play was just off even if he was not getting chased down. He should have just taken a sack or ground it not a chance in hell he was going to complete that pass with I believe 4 defenders around 1 receiver. But live and learn I have high hopes for DJ.
Yes.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/15/2020 11:01 am : link
It was a game changer.
I thank that all decisions are schrodinger's cat  
Bill L : 9/15/2020 11:05 am : link
and I think that this thread illustrates that.
that drive was incredible.  
mattlawson : 9/15/2020 11:10 am : link
Goes a long way in showing there is promise to whats being built here. From coaching to playing.

Now - the inability to run along the goal line has been something that has plagued us for years - and the fix was always lob it up 1-1 from the 21 instead of score from inside the 19.

We need to be able to run and shove it up the opponent's Ass inside the 5 particularly and we have not gotten back to that ability and mindset yet. Being able to run the ball inside the red zone will help this team win.
RE: Agree there's a lot..  
jvm52106 : 9/15/2020 11:16 am : link
In comment 14972912 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
to build on, but I'm not sure what the potential reward was for throwing it across his body while being chased. It didn't look like anyone was wide open and if he were going to throw it away, he has to put it to the sideline.

Killing the momentum of a 19 play drive is disasterous


I will agree and somewhat disagree with your assessment FMIC on the actual pass. He didn't throw it across his body actually. What made the play become possible for Dupree was that Jones slowed and squared up to make that more straight in line instead of what would have been towards the back corner of the end zone or even out of bounds. It may be more of a technicality but, he squared and that was when Dupree was able to hit his arm.

I also agree that he should have thrown it away period or run as far as possible forward salvage the play. The design was pretty poor as he really only had one initial option adn the trailing guy (guys really) coming from the right side over were bringing the entire Steelers defensive backfield with them.
I don't get the need to defend or rationalize that play  
widmerseyebrow : 9/15/2020 11:18 am : link
it was awful, it was at the worst possible time, and it effectively ended the game.

You can say that and also say that he had many encouraging highlights that point to a bright future. Both things are true.
Slayton was coming across  
Tim in VA : 9/15/2020 11:23 am : link
the back of the end zone and there was an opening.
if ..  
Producer : 9/15/2020 11:26 am : link
he learns from it and cuts out the mistakes then, you know what, it's a great learning moment.

A QB like Jones needs to eliminate mistakes and repeat the good stuff 98% of the time. If he does that, he's a winner in this league.
Yes, it was really that bad.  
Section331 : 9/15/2020 11:27 am : link
He had to be aware of the pressure, hes got to throw that away. Not getting any points after an incredible drive was a back-breaker.

DJ has to clean a few things up, but there was more good than bad.
It probably cost the Giants the game  
David B. : 9/15/2020 11:52 am : link
The Giants were supposed to lose, and they did.

Had they scored on that drive, they had a chance to steal the game. But that pick changed everything. So they lost a game they were expected to lose.

In the grand scheme of things, it's a teaching moment for Jones. He tried to make something happen, and the ball got tipped. If the ball isn't tipped and it's a TD, the narrative is completely different.

Most great QBs TRY to make those kind of plays. It's a fine line. You don't want the QB to never take chances.

You don't want your QB ALWAYS thinking: "this is a low percentage play. Throw it way or take the sack." That's how you end up with a "game manager" QB.

It's about WHEN to take chances.

Carl Banks made the best point (IMO). SITUATIONAL AWARENESS! He said (and I'm paraphrasing): IN THAT PARTICULAR MOMENT IN THE GAME, Jones has to realize that the Giants had just marched 90 yards and were having their way with Pitt D -- who were tired. They NEEDED to FINISH that drive and come away with a TD to continue the Giants momentum, and deflate Pitt's. It could have stuck a knife in them. So that was a TERRIBLE time to throw a pick in the endzone.

Conversely, if Jones had thrown a pick in the endzone earlier in the game, after the muffed punt recovery (where they got the FG), that would have been unfortunate, but not game-changing the way it was here.

THAT is what Jones needs to learn. In a game's critical moments, throw it away or even take the sack. In other, less critical moments, maybe try to make the play.

A teaching moment. He'll learn. He did a lot of good things out there last night.


It was a foolish mistake and should not have been made  
Mike from Ohio : 9/15/2020 12:08 pm : link
It's ok to acknowledge that and not be someone who thinks DJ sucks.

During Eli's entire tenure there were folks who would come on here and explain away every INT. That isn't necessary. Players - even really good players - make mistakes.

Given that situation 100 times, Jones should throw it out of bounds or take the sack 100 out of 100 times. It was a terrible decision.

None of which means Jones isn't good or isn't a franchise QB.
as pointed out  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/15/2020 12:10 pm : link
from a risk-reward perspective, it was bad.

But it wasn't as bad as made out. He thought he could get rid of the ball before he was hit. That kind of crap happens all of the time in the NFL.
RE: as pointed out  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/15/2020 12:18 pm : link
In comment 14973097 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
from a risk-reward perspective, it was bad.

But it wasn't as bad as made out. He thought he could get rid of the ball before he was hit. That kind of crap happens all of the time in the NFL.


It really is a tricky balance. When we are playing a team like Pitt with a very tough D and the game is within reach, Jones has to realize that mistakes(turnovers) are going to be the difference between a W and a L. We aren't a good enough team to overcome mistakes. Both INT's came during times where a score is impactful, and both INT's led immediately to points for PITT.

Again - Jones is going to win a lot of games for us. But for a mediocre team, he has to understand that mistakes are going to tilt the balance oftentimes. That being said, you have to go out and try to make plays, which is why it is tricky
RE: It probably cost the Giants the game  
Bill L : 9/15/2020 12:18 pm : link
In comment 14973067 David B. said:
Quote:
The Giants were supposed to lose, and they did.

Had they scored on that drive, they had a chance to steal the game. But that pick changed everything. So they lost a game they were expected to lose.

In the grand scheme of things, it's a teaching moment for Jones. He tried to make something happen, and the ball got tipped. If the ball isn't tipped and it's a TD, the narrative is completely different.

Most great QBs TRY to make those kind of plays. It's a fine line. You don't want the QB to never take chances.

You don't want your QB ALWAYS thinking: "this is a low percentage play. Throw it way or take the sack." That's how you end up with a "game manager" QB.

It's about WHEN to take chances.

Carl Banks made the best point (IMO). SITUATIONAL AWARENESS! He said (and I'm paraphrasing): IN THAT PARTICULAR MOMENT IN THE GAME, Jones has to realize that the Giants had just marched 90 yards and were having their way with Pitt D -- who were tired. They NEEDED to FINISH that drive and come away with a TD to continue the Giants momentum, and deflate Pitt's. It could have stuck a knife in them. So that was a TERRIBLE time to throw a pick in the endzone.

Conversely, if Jones had thrown a pick in the endzone earlier in the game, after the muffed punt recovery (where they got the FG), that would have been unfortunate, but not game-changing the way it was here.

THAT is what Jones needs to learn. In a game's critical moments, throw it away or even take the sack. In other, less critical moments, maybe try to make the play.

A teaching moment. He'll learn. He did a lot of good things out there last night.



This is an outstanding summation.

For me, I think that the worse thing to come out of something like this is for everyone to bash the guy so much that he never tries to get David Tyree to catch a pass on his helmet.
It  
AcidTest : 9/15/2020 12:20 pm : link
was awful. He refused to give up on the play, undoubtedly because as the leader of the team he thought it was his responsibility to make do everything to get a TD on that drive. But what we really needed was points. A FG would have made it 16 - 13. Eli used to do the same thing. Some plays are dead. Live to fight another play. In a low scoring game, points are precious, especially against a defense as good as Pittsburgh's. It was a momentum killer. The Steelers basically won the game at that moment.
Forcing the throw to Tyree in the superbowl  
Mike from Ohio : 9/15/2020 12:23 pm : link
to DJ last night is so poor of a comparison I don't even know how to illustrate it. Apples to lawn mowers maybe?

Eli had to score a TD on that drive and it was 3rd and long. He has to force a throw. DJ had another down and plenty of time in the game. No reason for force that throw at all.

Or maybe you are suggesting that Jones should never take a sack and always throw the ball into traffic to make something happen?
RE: Forcing the throw to Tyree in the superbowl  
Bill L : 9/15/2020 12:28 pm : link
In comment 14973113 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
to DJ last night is so poor of a comparison I don't even know how to illustrate it. Apples to lawn mowers maybe?

Eli had to score a TD on that drive and it was 3rd and long. He has to force a throw. DJ had another down and plenty of time in the game. No reason for force that throw at all.

Or maybe you are suggesting that Jones should never take a sack and always throw the ball into traffic to make something happen?

You never learn to make a play or take a chance.
RE: RE: Forcing the throw to Tyree in the superbowl  
Mike from Ohio : 9/15/2020 12:31 pm : link
In comment 14973119 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 14973113 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


to DJ last night is so poor of a comparison I don't even know how to illustrate it. Apples to lawn mowers maybe?

Eli had to score a TD on that drive and it was 3rd and long. He has to force a throw. DJ had another down and plenty of time in the game. No reason for force that throw at all.

Or maybe you are suggesting that Jones should never take a sack and always throw the ball into traffic to make something happen?


You never learn to make a play or take a chance.


No, you learn situational awareness.
RE: RE: Forcing the throw to Tyree in the superbowl  
eli4life : 9/15/2020 12:34 pm : link
In comment 14973119 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 14973113 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


to DJ last night is so poor of a comparison I don't even know how to illustrate it. Apples to lawn mowers maybe?

Eli had to score a TD on that drive and it was 3rd and long. He has to force a throw. DJ had another down and plenty of time in the game. No reason for force that throw at all.

Or maybe you are suggesting that Jones should never take a sack and always throw the ball into traffic to make something happen?


You never learn to make a play or take a chance.


But you can learn when and when not to and that will come with experience (which he doesn’t have a lot of) and good coaching which already seems light years ahead of what he had last year
Watching it LIVE the turnover was BAD, just BAD  
SGMen : 9/15/2020 12:39 pm : link
As it developed I was hoping he'd toss it out of the endzone and settle for a chippy FG. We were in the game still and that turnover sucked the air out of us.

Myself, I'd have run the ball down there because it was the 19th play and they had to have been tired. That is me....
watched again  
jestersdead : 9/15/2020 12:45 pm : link
Just watched the clip again on Baldinger's twitter account. Why didn't Barkley chip the Dupree as he was coming out of the backfield? He ran right by him and that left Dupree in pursuit of Jones.

Jones also has the opportunity to tuck it and run to get back to the LOS but he shuffles to his left and opens up to Dupree, giving him a chance to get to his throwing arm
baldybreakdown - ( New Window )
watched that Baldy clip  
LG in NYC : 9/15/2020 12:49 pm : link
hadn't seen the blatant holding in the EZ which probably affected the outcome of the play as well

and yes, it sure seemed like SB should have done something other than run 2 yards out and across
what is also important to note  
dlauster : 9/15/2020 1:32 pm : link
is that as absolutely soul crushing as the turnover was for the offense, it also demoralized the defense, and the subsequent Steelers' possession resulted in points.

It was an exponentially devastating error.
was a block missed somewhere  
dairborn : 9/15/2020 1:41 pm : link
on the left side of the line? We had a heavy 3 TE set on the left of the formation to start the play. I can't believe the play design gives a free release to the edge rusher without a least a bump as DJ loops around....seems like more to the play was missed then just the poor choice....correct me if I am wrong.......
A lot of young  
ryanmkeane : 9/15/2020 1:41 pm : link
QBs, hell QBs in general, would shit their pants starting from your own 5 with a young OL up against the Steelers. DJ brought them on a surgical drive only to fuck it up at the end. It would have been the best Giants drive in years had they scored there.

So, yeah, it sucked. But let's look at the big picture. He stared down the Steelers D for the entire game.
Also  
ryanmkeane : 9/15/2020 1:42 pm : link
he just turned 23 years old! And doesn't even have a full NFL season of games under his belt!
He has Smith  
KWALL2 : 9/15/2020 1:47 pm : link
across the field a bit with nobody there. He can make that throw. He also had Slayton in the back and he could have put it up high there. I'm not even sure where he is going with it but I don't have a problem with it. He thought he could get it there.

It was a great drive by Jones before that play. He extended plays and converted. The 3rd and long play from inside our 10 was big time. The 4th down conversion he extended it and kept it going.

Jones played well against one of the top 2-3 defenses in the NFL and with a new OL playing their first game.

really did himself a disservice with that bad decision  
bc4life : 9/15/2020 1:52 pm : link
managed the drive like a veteran. someone said he tried to throw it away but defender was way too close to him to try that. so yeah - it was bad, negated some really good plays by him to get the team there
I said it last night  
BlackLight : 9/15/2020 1:59 pm : link
The goal-line INT was the result of waiting literally a split-second too long to make what would've been the right decision (which was throwing the ball out of the endzone). Still a mistake, but the commentary on the play from most people suggests they are confusing the issue. The timing and implications of the play were horrific, and people are understandably upset about it, but it's a mistake to project those emotions onto Jones himself.

Sometimes football is literally a game of inches and fractions of a second. On one play last night, it was, and we got burned.
I think there is blame to be shared  
TJ : 9/15/2020 2:08 pm : link
Jones was trying to do too much and misjudged the speed of the pass rusher.
But that ball seemed to hang in the air forever - how was it nobody on the offense was able to keep a DLineman from catching it?
Surreal  
Cap'n Bluebeard : 9/15/2020 2:20 pm : link
Daniel Jones is a faster, more accurate Eli Manning and I think we're going to love him for it. He's got that same mentality where he's trying to make a play on every single play. Sometimes shit like that is going to happen. Sometimes you're going to have a helmet catch. It's definitely frustrating to watch the bad ones, especially at the end of such a long drive, but hopefully the great plays and memories outweigh the bad ones over time.
Yes, it was really bad. Doesn't change my high opinion  
barens : 9/15/2020 2:31 pm : link
of Jones as a QB, but from last year to this year, I think we all want to see him have a better internal clock, especially against some of the better defenses in the league, which there will be a few more of on the schedule.
Wouldn't a boot to the strong side be better  
wigs in nyc : 9/15/2020 2:43 pm : link
for a right-armed QB in that situation?
Bad play call, bad play design and bad decision  
kdog77 : 9/15/2020 2:56 pm : link
Giants had 2 extra TEs on the left side that did not block Dupree crashing down on Barkley. After the play fake, Barkley ran right passed Dupree to the flat rather than blocking for Jones. Jones rolled left towards Dupree's side and rather than tuck the ball and run to the sideline when it was clear the play had blown up or dump it to Barkley, he slowed down and tried to throw towards the end zone where there were 6-7 white jerseys. I don't think you need a degree in football analytics to conclude that someone either missed a blocking assignment or that the OC made a bad decision in asking his QB to roll to their off hand in short yardage against good defense. Jones made a mistake, but that play was DOA from the moment they snapped the ball.
RE: as pointed out  
BillKo : 9/15/2020 3:21 pm : link
In comment 14973097 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
from a risk-reward perspective, it was bad.

But it wasn't as bad as made out. He thought he could get rid of the ball before he was hit. That kind of crap happens all of the time in the NFL.


I agree, but I also think he was trying to throw to the back corner of the endzone where a receiver was headed.

RE: RE: as pointed out  
Thegratefulhead : 9/15/2020 3:34 pm : link
In comment 14973104 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 14973097 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


from a risk-reward perspective, it was bad.

But it wasn't as bad as made out. He thought he could get rid of the ball before he was hit. That kind of crap happens all of the time in the NFL.



It really is a tricky balance. When we are playing a team like Pitt with a very tough D and the game is within reach, Jones has to realize that mistakes(turnovers) are going to be the difference between a W and a L. We aren't a good enough team to overcome mistakes. Both INT's came during times where a score is impactful, and both INT's led immediately to points for PITT.

Again - Jones is going to win a lot of games for us. But for a mediocre team, he has to understand that mistakes are going to tilt the balance oftentimes. That being said, you have to go out and try to make plays, which is why it is tricky
We are talking 6 inches. Inches. It wasn't like Jones was crushed, if he had been rolling right that ball gets out easy.
I think he was trying to throw it away  
Simms11 : 9/15/2020 3:52 pm : link
as he didn’t see Slayton open and that last second hesitation allowed Dupree to catch up and tip the ball causing it to flop down into Heyward arms. If he really wanted to throw it away,he should have lofted it over Barkley’s head to his left, but didn’t look that way. It was the hesitation there IMO that screwed it up. I’d like to hear what DJ had to say about it.
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