on Jones's part. Yeah, you could argue he should have a better internal clock, you should argue he should have tossed it away much earlier and those are all reasonable arguments. But, you can also argue he was trying to make a play and got hit from behind and that is just football. If he would have thrown it into blanket coverage (which maybe he was intending to do, I am not really sure if he was throwing it OB or trying to hit Slayto--I think it was him coming back to the back corner of the endzone) then you can say that is an unforgivable error and being cavalier with the football. But, I just don't think trying to extend a play, even at the goalline is necessarily a bad thing. or something that we should want him to get experience in doing.
I thought the first INT was much worse, tbh. There he completely misread the play and even if Watt didn't do what he did and went directly to the QB, Jones was throwing into good coverage with a million Steelers around only bad things can happen there.
I thought that Jones played well and there is a lot to build on, but our OL really needs to get better. I don't know if it was the Steelers or the weakness of the middle of our line, but they were basically walking through our middle last night and that can't happen.
Anyway, I think there is stuff to building and let's go from there. Hopefully, we win this weekend, I just don't want to be 0-2 for like the umpteenth time in like the last 8 years.
Killing the momentum of a 19 play drive is disasterous
Granted, the Giants were not going to run it in, so the outcome was TD catch, FG or FG miss. INT = FG miss.
But from the 3? Just… ouch.
I also think that Eli makes that same throw (with probably the same outcome). And a number of others, like Rodgers, Mahomes, make that same throw (with probably a different outcome).
On the second interception, DJ made a poor decision and had two other better options, just run OOB or throw it away.
I also think that Eli makes that same throw (with probably the same outcome). And a number of others, like Rodgers, Mahomes, make that same throw (with probably a different outcome).
LOL, my first reaction was oh no you did not really learn the red zone interception from Eli!
Giants fans have PTSD from Eli doing those kinds of things for years. It sucks.
But Jones hasn't even started 16 games yet. So I'll chalk it up as a learning lesson.
I also think that Eli makes that same throw (with probably the same outcome). And a number of others, like Rodgers, Mahomes, make that same throw (with probably a different outcome).
I get all the arguments you can't turn it over there and that, quite frankly, is true, However you do want your franchise qb to make a play there and I also thought he could have hit Slayton, It just did not work out. That is not to say it wasn't a mistake, but, at the same time, I think I am not sure we want him always to take the conservative route down there. He probably waited a fraction of a second too long.
Right, but isn't that what we want our QB doing, making that play. Nobody is arguing the outcome wasn't disastrous, I guess my point is that throwing it away is sometimes the right decision and sometimes its not and I am not sure it is as clear cut here with an open Slayton moving to the corner we don't want our QB making that play. I realize this opinion is a bit against the grain, but I saw that replay during the game last night I was like that was almost six on a play where the Steelers originally snuffed it out.
Look asking him to carry the whole offense, where he was even the leading rusher on scrambles, is going to lead to problems. It’s all about the offensive line. Again.
it was a gift to Pitt's d-line.
On the second interception, DJ made a poor decision and had two other better options, just run OOB or throw it away.
Watt did not get enough credit from the announcers on that one. Recognizing the play is one thing, being able to redirect that quickly to get into the lane is another but to actually catch the ball is a whole different dog. Watt, just like his brother, is a hell of a player.
Now - the inability to run along the goal line has been something that has plagued us for years - and the fix was always lob it up 1-1 from the 21 instead of score from inside the 19.
We need to be able to run and shove it up the opponent's Ass inside the 5 particularly and we have not gotten back to that ability and mindset yet. Being able to run the ball inside the red zone will help this team win.
Killing the momentum of a 19 play drive is disasterous
I will agree and somewhat disagree with your assessment FMIC on the actual pass. He didn't throw it across his body actually. What made the play become possible for Dupree was that Jones slowed and squared up to make that more straight in line instead of what would have been towards the back corner of the end zone or even out of bounds. It may be more of a technicality but, he squared and that was when Dupree was able to hit his arm.
I also agree that he should have thrown it away period or run as far as possible forward salvage the play. The design was pretty poor as he really only had one initial option adn the trailing guy (guys really) coming from the right side over were bringing the entire Steelers defensive backfield with them.
You can say that and also say that he had many encouraging highlights that point to a bright future. Both things are true.
A QB like Jones needs to eliminate mistakes and repeat the good stuff 98% of the time. If he does that, he's a winner in this league.
DJ has to clean a few things up, but there was more good than bad.
Had they scored on that drive, they had a chance to steal the game. But that pick changed everything. So they lost a game they were expected to lose.
In the grand scheme of things, it's a teaching moment for Jones. He tried to make something happen, and the ball got tipped. If the ball isn't tipped and it's a TD, the narrative is completely different.
Most great QBs TRY to make those kind of plays. It's a fine line. You don't want the QB to never take chances.
You don't want your QB ALWAYS thinking: "this is a low percentage play. Throw it way or take the sack." That's how you end up with a "game manager" QB.
It's about WHEN to take chances.
Carl Banks made the best point (IMO). SITUATIONAL AWARENESS! He said (and I'm paraphrasing): IN THAT PARTICULAR MOMENT IN THE GAME, Jones has to realize that the Giants had just marched 90 yards and were having their way with Pitt D -- who were tired. They NEEDED to FINISH that drive and come away with a TD to continue the Giants momentum, and deflate Pitt's. It could have stuck a knife in them. So that was a TERRIBLE time to throw a pick in the endzone.
Conversely, if Jones had thrown a pick in the endzone earlier in the game, after the muffed punt recovery (where they got the FG), that would have been unfortunate, but not game-changing the way it was here.
THAT is what Jones needs to learn. In a game's critical moments, throw it away or even take the sack. In other, less critical moments, maybe try to make the play.
A teaching moment. He'll learn. He did a lot of good things out there last night.
During Eli's entire tenure there were folks who would come on here and explain away every INT. That isn't necessary. Players - even really good players - make mistakes.
Given that situation 100 times, Jones should throw it out of bounds or take the sack 100 out of 100 times. It was a terrible decision.
None of which means Jones isn't good or isn't a franchise QB.
But it wasn't as bad as made out. He thought he could get rid of the ball before he was hit. That kind of crap happens all of the time in the NFL.
But it wasn't as bad as made out. He thought he could get rid of the ball before he was hit. That kind of crap happens all of the time in the NFL.
It really is a tricky balance. When we are playing a team like Pitt with a very tough D and the game is within reach, Jones has to realize that mistakes(turnovers) are going to be the difference between a W and a L. We aren't a good enough team to overcome mistakes. Both INT's came during times where a score is impactful, and both INT's led immediately to points for PITT.
Again - Jones is going to win a lot of games for us. But for a mediocre team, he has to understand that mistakes are going to tilt the balance oftentimes. That being said, you have to go out and try to make plays, which is why it is tricky
Had they scored on that drive, they had a chance to steal the game. But that pick changed everything. So they lost a game they were expected to lose.
In the grand scheme of things, it's a teaching moment for Jones. He tried to make something happen, and the ball got tipped. If the ball isn't tipped and it's a TD, the narrative is completely different.
Most great QBs TRY to make those kind of plays. It's a fine line. You don't want the QB to never take chances.
You don't want your QB ALWAYS thinking: "this is a low percentage play. Throw it way or take the sack." That's how you end up with a "game manager" QB.
It's about WHEN to take chances.
Carl Banks made the best point (IMO). SITUATIONAL AWARENESS! He said (and I'm paraphrasing): IN THAT PARTICULAR MOMENT IN THE GAME, Jones has to realize that the Giants had just marched 90 yards and were having their way with Pitt D -- who were tired. They NEEDED to FINISH that drive and come away with a TD to continue the Giants momentum, and deflate Pitt's. It could have stuck a knife in them. So that was a TERRIBLE time to throw a pick in the endzone.
Conversely, if Jones had thrown a pick in the endzone earlier in the game, after the muffed punt recovery (where they got the FG), that would have been unfortunate, but not game-changing the way it was here.
THAT is what Jones needs to learn. In a game's critical moments, throw it away or even take the sack. In other, less critical moments, maybe try to make the play.
A teaching moment. He'll learn. He did a lot of good things out there last night.
This is an outstanding summation.
For me, I think that the worse thing to come out of something like this is for everyone to bash the guy so much that he never tries to get David Tyree to catch a pass on his helmet.
Eli had to score a TD on that drive and it was 3rd and long. He has to force a throw. DJ had another down and plenty of time in the game. No reason for force that throw at all.
Or maybe you are suggesting that Jones should never take a sack and always throw the ball into traffic to make something happen?
Eli had to score a TD on that drive and it was 3rd and long. He has to force a throw. DJ had another down and plenty of time in the game. No reason for force that throw at all.
Or maybe you are suggesting that Jones should never take a sack and always throw the ball into traffic to make something happen?
You never learn to make a play or take a chance.
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to DJ last night is so poor of a comparison I don't even know how to illustrate it. Apples to lawn mowers maybe?
Eli had to score a TD on that drive and it was 3rd and long. He has to force a throw. DJ had another down and plenty of time in the game. No reason for force that throw at all.
Or maybe you are suggesting that Jones should never take a sack and always throw the ball into traffic to make something happen?
You never learn to make a play or take a chance.
No, you learn situational awareness.
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to DJ last night is so poor of a comparison I don't even know how to illustrate it. Apples to lawn mowers maybe?
Eli had to score a TD on that drive and it was 3rd and long. He has to force a throw. DJ had another down and plenty of time in the game. No reason for force that throw at all.
Or maybe you are suggesting that Jones should never take a sack and always throw the ball into traffic to make something happen?
You never learn to make a play or take a chance.
But you can learn when and when not to and that will come with experience (which he doesn’t have a lot of) and good coaching which already seems light years ahead of what he had last year
Myself, I'd have run the ball down there because it was the 19th play and they had to have been tired. That is me....
Jones also has the opportunity to tuck it and run to get back to the LOS but he shuffles to his left and opens up to Dupree, giving him a chance to get to his throwing arm
baldybreakdown - ( New Window )
and yes, it sure seemed like SB should have done something other than run 2 yards out and across
It was an exponentially devastating error.
So, yeah, it sucked. But let's look at the big picture. He stared down the Steelers D for the entire game.
It was a great drive by Jones before that play. He extended plays and converted. The 3rd and long play from inside our 10 was big time. The 4th down conversion he extended it and kept it going.
Jones played well against one of the top 2-3 defenses in the NFL and with a new OL playing their first game.
Sometimes football is literally a game of inches and fractions of a second. On one play last night, it was, and we got burned.
But that ball seemed to hang in the air forever - how was it nobody on the offense was able to keep a DLineman from catching it?
But it wasn't as bad as made out. He thought he could get rid of the ball before he was hit. That kind of crap happens all of the time in the NFL.
I agree, but I also think he was trying to throw to the back corner of the endzone where a receiver was headed.
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from a risk-reward perspective, it was bad.
But it wasn't as bad as made out. He thought he could get rid of the ball before he was hit. That kind of crap happens all of the time in the NFL.
It really is a tricky balance. When we are playing a team like Pitt with a very tough D and the game is within reach, Jones has to realize that mistakes(turnovers) are going to be the difference between a W and a L. We aren't a good enough team to overcome mistakes. Both INT's came during times where a score is impactful, and both INT's led immediately to points for PITT.
Again - Jones is going to win a lot of games for us. But for a mediocre team, he has to understand that mistakes are going to tilt the balance oftentimes. That being said, you have to go out and try to make plays, which is why it is tricky