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O-Line Play | Insider Analysis

DomerGiant2008 : 9/15/2020 11:32 am
I have a friend that plays offensive line for the Steelers. He told me that what the Steelers did last night was a scheme to overload one side of the line and force the tackle to take the linebacker, which is why there were so many plays where the defensive end came totally free. The Tackle was actually doing the correct assignment by picking up the linebacker and the protections needed to be adjusted to account for the defensive end.

So it may have been more of a scheme that our coaching staff had not prepared us for rather than our line just being totally awful. Jones should have adjusted the protections and the running backs should have done a better job picking up the rushers. My friend seems to think that the Giants were just unprepared and were never able to adjust.
...  
HitSquad : 9/15/2020 11:39 am : link
So like with this play when Dupree blew it up in the backfield..Andrew Thomas was correct to turn him loose and go to the second level?
Example - ( New Window )
good insight and thanks.  
Dinger : 9/15/2020 11:45 am : link
I thought it looked odd that he would keep going to his right to 'help' Hernandez leaving the DE free to the QB.
...  
HitSquad : 9/15/2020 11:46 am : link
My bad, I thought the OP was talking about a run play.

I think he meant the Steelers overload blitz like on this play
Example - ( New Window )
...  
christian : 9/15/2020 11:47 am : link
That’s a great insight, there was clearly an assignment issue on the edges.

Did your friend have any opinions on the interior play?
RE: ...  
jestersdead : 9/15/2020 11:49 am : link
In comment 14973038 HitSquad said:
Quote:
So like with this play when Dupree blew it up in the backfield..Andrew Thomas was correct to turn him loose and go to the second level? Example - ( New Window )

Im no o-line coach but based on Hernandez pulling to the other side, yes and Thomas is blocking down
RE: ...  
DomerGiant2008 : 9/15/2020 11:51 am : link
In comment 14973055 christian said:
Quote:
That’s a great insight, there was clearly an assignment issue on the edges.

Did your friend have any opinions on the interior play?


He commented that the Giants O-Line is not "bad" ... he said they are young and they couldn't figure out the scheme the Steelers kept throwing at them ... def got hurt by not having any preseason games to work on stuff
RE: RE: ...  
Jim in Tampa : 9/15/2020 11:55 am : link
In comment 14973063 DomerGiant2008 said:
Quote:
In comment 14973055 christian said:


Quote:


That’s a great insight, there was clearly an assignment issue on the edges.

Did your friend have any opinions on the interior play?



He commented that the Giants O-Line is not "bad" ... he said they are young and they couldn't figure out the scheme the Steelers kept throwing at them ... def got hurt by not having any preseason games to work on stuff

But is this on the players (OL) the coaches or both? If it's on the players, they'll get better the more they play together. If the coaches were unable to make adjustments, it's a little more worrisome.
I wouldn’t  
Daniel in MI : 9/15/2020 11:58 am : link
Be shocked if this is some of it.

New scheme, young QB, new C never been a C, complex D, no preseason. They may not have recognized things and our backs and TEs need to pick up rushers better.
RE: RE: ...  
mfsd : 9/15/2020 12:02 pm : link
In comment 14973063 DomerGiant2008 said:
Quote:
In comment 14973055 christian said:


Quote:


That’s a great insight, there was clearly an assignment issue on the edges.

Did your friend have any opinions on the interior play?



He commented that the Giants O-Line is not "bad" ... he said they are young and they couldn't figure out the scheme the Steelers kept throwing at them ... def got hurt by not having any preseason games to work on stuff


Interesting, appreciate you sharing all that
Yes. This is why I keep harping on the fact that people should not  
PatersonPlank : 9/15/2020 12:04 pm : link
automatically blame the OL. The RB/useless TE Engram needs to pitch in. If Pitts is sending more guys than our 5 OL can block its someone elses fault. You saw this with Fleming, he had 2 guys coming at him.

I know the natural reaction is to say "the OL sucks", but a lot of times with us its the RB/Engram sucks at blocking.

We need to bench Engram and out in a real TE. Frankly you saw us do this when we go with 2 or 3 TE's. Its done because EE can't block. My issue is then why have him out there because he can't catch either.
Great!  
GiantsRage2007 : 9/15/2020 12:07 pm : link
For like the 7th year in a row all you have to do is run a simple DL stunt and you can totally blow up our offense.

Sweet!
RE: ...  
PatersonPlank : 9/15/2020 12:07 pm : link
In comment 14973052 HitSquad said:
Quote:
My bad, I thought the OP was talking about a run play.

I think he meant the Steelers overload blitz like on this play Example - ( New Window )


If you look at the first play on this video, Fleming had 2 guys coming at him. Where is the RB? the TE? Its a scheme thing or an incompetence "crappy blocking by RB/TE thing.

You can see later in the game they were having the TE block this crashing guy more, so that leads me to believe the protection scheme was in place and it just wasn't being executed.
RE: Great!  
PatersonPlank : 9/15/2020 12:07 pm : link
In comment 14973089 GiantsRage2007 said:
Quote:
For like the 7th year in a row all you have to do is run a simple DL stunt and you can totally blow up our offense.

Sweet!


Its not a stunt, we were fine with them.
RE: RE: RE: ...  
giants#1 : 9/15/2020 12:09 pm : link
In comment 14973069 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 14973063 DomerGiant2008 said:


Quote:


In comment 14973055 christian said:


Quote:


That’s a great insight, there was clearly an assignment issue on the edges.

Did your friend have any opinions on the interior play?



He commented that the Giants O-Line is not "bad" ... he said they are young and they couldn't figure out the scheme the Steelers kept throwing at them ... def got hurt by not having any preseason games to work on stuff


But is this on the players (OL) the coaches or both? If it's on the players, they'll get better the more they play together. If the coaches were unable to make adjustments, it's a little more worrisome.


I think it's likely on the coaches.

Bad: they weren't prepared for it heading into week 1
Good: they did make some successful in-game adjustments as evidenced by the long drive to start the 2nd

That said, there were at least 2 occasions early on where Engram was completely blown up by the defender before SB even took the handoff. No scheme can get around that...
With that alignment, the play call and blitz showing  
regulator : 9/15/2020 12:14 pm : link
seems to me that Jones really should be getting out of that play. Pittsburgh wasn't shy about telegraphing who's coming there. The same thing happened a few times (with Dupree), and is one of the teachable moments that hopefully will lead to some improvement next week. Now it's on the coaching staff to show their ability to correct these schematic issues.
tough matchup for Giants  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/15/2020 12:19 pm : link
Not only do the Steelers have a lot of talent in the front 7 their DC has been with organization for almost 20 years. This will only help speed up the processing of development of the OL imo.
I believe the Steelers returned 10 of the 11 starters  
bubba0825 : 9/15/2020 12:24 pm : link
On defense, with what’s transpired in the world it’s pretty Obvious that they had a huge advantage.
RE: Great!  
KingBlue : 9/15/2020 12:34 pm : link
In comment 14973089 GiantsRage2007 said:
Quote:
For like the 7th year in a row all you have to do is run a simple DL stunt and you can totally blow up our offense.

Sweet!


STFU, you whiny little bitch.
There will be a lot to learn from for sure  
SGMen : 9/15/2020 12:34 pm : link
First, it appears that Thomas held his own.
Second, sadly it doesn't appear that Saquon or Engram have improved their blocking. I hole out hope that they were just "ambushed" last night and will improve.
Third, if Columbo believes in Gates so do I. But it was his first EVER NFL start at OC and he faced ProBowl level defenders.
Fourth, if Jones didn't make the the proper adjustments or line calls well that is an issue that needs to be addressed and fixed before Chicago.

We lost this game because we lost the turnover battle AND because we lack the continuity needed to keep this type of talented defense at bay. We will improve with experience but we may also have a few L's before it gets better.
RE: RE: Great!  
GiantsRage2007 : 9/15/2020 12:43 pm : link
In comment 14973126 KingBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 14973089 GiantsRage2007 said:


Quote:


For like the 7th year in a row all you have to do is run a simple DL stunt and you can totally blow up our offense.

Sweet!



STFU, you whiny little bitch.


Oh good one...

It's true. Well, maybe not a stunt, but an overload.

Weak OL play (or just blocking in general)kills this team over and over.
Makes sense  
Cap'n Bluebeard : 9/15/2020 1:44 pm : link
I believe the Center usually helps to adjust protections. With a young QB and a C who had literally never played the position before going up against that kind of scheme, I'm not sure I would expect any different than the suckitude we saw last night. Not excusing that abjectly awful performance, but hopefully it becomes a teachable moment and we start to figure this stuff out sooner rather than later.

On a positive note, I saw several instances of Thomas and Hernandez executing perfectly on DL stunts, which was nice to see after years of complete incompetence.
RE: tough matchup for Giants  
John In CO : 9/15/2020 1:45 pm : link
In comment 14973109 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
Not only do the Steelers have a lot of talent in the front 7 their DC has been with organization for almost 20 years. This will only help speed up the processing of development of the OL imo.


Never cease to be amazed that that team has had only 3 head coaches in the past 50 years.
RE: RE: tough matchup for Giants  
Dr. D : 9/15/2020 1:51 pm : link
In comment 14973275 John In CO said:
Quote:

Never cease to be amazed that that team has had only 3 head coaches in the past 50 years.

vs. our 3 head coaches in the past 5 years. Oh the pain!
Confirms my feelin  
GoDeep13 : 9/15/2020 2:08 pm : link
When we had a man for a man we held up very well. Too often though there seemed to be a missed assignment or read that got us killed.

Teams know Barkley struggles to pass protect. Something I’ve noticed is if Barkley is in the game, teams almost blitz exclusively because they know it’s either gonna keep Barkley in to block (which again, he struggles with.) Or if he slips out they have a safety rallying down to the flats.
RE: With that alignment, the play call and blitz showing  
GoDeep13 : 9/15/2020 2:12 pm : link
In comment 14973099 regulator said:
Quote:
seems to me that Jones really should be getting out of that play. Pittsburgh wasn't shy about telegraphing who's coming there. The same thing happened a few times (with Dupree), and is one of the teachable moments that hopefully will lead to some improvement next week. Now it's on the coaching staff to show their ability to correct these schematic issues.
Jones just may not be there with the offense yet. I know many advances coordinators will send 2 plays in at once and allow the QB flexibility at the line. You’d hear like “Check” or “Kill” at the line meaning they either like what they see or they are going to the 2nd play.
I have an idea,  
section125 : 9/15/2020 2:31 pm : link
how about we wait on Sy'56s breakdown before we blame everyone.

Kind of easy for a team that has been together for years to adjust ove a team with a brand new oline and new to the team coaches.
be interested in what he thought  
bc4life : 9/15/2020 2:46 pm : link
about Giants D-Line
RE: Confirms my feelin  
Dinger : 9/15/2020 3:05 pm : link
In comment 14973316 GoDeep13 said:
Quote:
When we had a man for a man we held up very well. Too often though there seemed to be a missed assignment or read that got us killed.

Teams know Barkley struggles to pass protect. Something I’ve noticed is if Barkley is in the game, teams almost blitz exclusively because they know it’s either gonna keep Barkley in to block (which again, he struggles with.) Or if he slips out they have a safety rallying down to the flats.
\

This is a great point which I, being of simple mind, didn't realize....why WOULDN'T you blitz as much as possible? You take away the threat that Barkley is when he's in open space AND you force him to do something hes bad at. Pure genius....(cue a Wiley E Coyote gif here).
For 16 years, we heard our coaches rave about  
mfsd : 9/15/2020 6:07 pm : link
how Eli always got them “in the right protection”, and many people never knew what that meant, as they were too busy analyzing whether Eli threw a good enough spiral
I think what’s most troublesome is the play  
Simms11 : 9/15/2020 8:29 pm : link
of the Guards. Zeitler gave up 4 pressures and Hernandez gave up 5. They’re certainly not helping Gates. The middle has become a problem and most likely the main reason Barkley is not getting through the line to get even a couple of yards.
This is not good news...  
trueblueinpw : 9/15/2020 9:10 pm : link
Like with everything else, it’s just one game. But getting out coached is a bigger problem than getting outplayed on the field.

Great post though! Thanks.
Steelers lived in our backfield the entire game  
Sneakers O'toole : 9/15/2020 9:11 pm : link
and completely shut down Barkley behind the line of scrimmage. This was more than scheme. Giants took a whooping.
I do agree it was part of it  
Sneakers O'toole : 9/15/2020 9:12 pm : link
.
You can't block 7 or 8 with 6  
Rafflee : 9/16/2020 5:01 am : link
The Steelers never gave up on Stuffing the Box. That's a big reason that the Pass game worked generally well....and the O-Line should get a lot of credit for Pass P{rotection first game out.

You'd hope for some Gel and im provement and a little more production from the run game.

If you add a TD on that early turnover and you Take back the Deep Red Interception, you might conclude that Tomlin chose his poison and lost.
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