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Engram

MacGruber : 9/15/2020 3:19 pm
This may have been mentioned here before and I don't know how outlandish this is but why can the Giants not switch Evan Engram to a Wide Reciever?

IDK how hard that would be for a player to make a switch, but, hear me out.

1) Evan Engram runs a 4.4 which is .08 faster than the NFL WR average.

2) He is above average for a WR in the NFL stacking in at 6' 3' and a half.

3) One of his best abilities is his route running and ability to get separation from defenders.

4) He LEGIT has no place playing the TE position with how important it is in Run blocking and pass blocking. Stacking him at TE doesn't give us any mismatch in the passing game and only gives opposing teams an easier time rushing because they know he'll either A) Blow a block or B) Be used in a passing situation, thus anytime Kaden Smith or Toilolo are on field htey know for the most part they're blocking.


With him being above average in basically every WR category, he'd actually be our biggest WR, with good route running ability and a respectable speed. Why the hell do they keep trotting him out there as a TE?
He has the worst hands on the roster  
Ben in Tampa : 9/15/2020 3:21 pm : link
We don’t need a WR who can’t catch
Kudos  
giants#1 : 9/15/2020 3:22 pm : link
very original thought. Great job thinking outside the box.
RE: He has the worst hands on the roster  
MacGruber : 9/15/2020 3:26 pm : link
In comment 14973433 Ben in Tampa said:
Quote:
We don’t need a WR who can’t catch


A WR that cant catch is better than a TE that cant catch or fucking block......
RE: RE: He has the worst hands on the roster  
Anakim : 9/15/2020 3:27 pm : link
In comment 14973444 MacGruber said:
Quote:
In comment 14973433 Ben in Tampa said:


Quote:


We don’t need a WR who can’t catch



A WR that cant catch is better than a TE that cant catch or fucking block......


A WR that can't catch is a CB...or Tim Carter
Engram  
JonC : 9/15/2020 3:28 pm : link
has inconsistent hands, focus, attention to details, and blocking. He seems to drift mentally often, he's really hard to stomach right now.
RE: Engram  
Dinger : 9/15/2020 3:31 pm : link
In comment 14973449 JonC said:
Quote:
has inconsistent hands, focus, attention to details, and blocking. He seems to drift mentally often, he's really hard to stomach right now.


I think this is more on point than saying he has bad hands. He makes some great catches, when he's 'on'. Unfortunately hes not always on. I think that is more allowable at tht WR position than the TE position especially since blocking is more important at the TE position and he does SUCK at blocking....all the time.
RE: Engram  
truebluelarry : 9/15/2020 3:32 pm : link
In comment 14973449 JonC said:
Quote:
has inconsistent hands, focus, attention to details, and blocking. He seems to drift mentally often, he's really hard to stomach right now.


Almost sounds like he thinks he's on scholarship.
If you notice when Engram is engaged and a big contributor  
JonC : 9/15/2020 3:34 pm : link
they got him involved early and quickly engaged in the action.

When they don't or things don't go his way, he seems to drift away.
RE: If you notice when Engram is engaged and a big contributor  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/15/2020 3:37 pm : link
In comment 14973459 JonC said:
Quote:
they got him involved early and quickly engaged in the action.

When they don't or things don't go his way, he seems to drift away.


So he's like my 5 year old. Awesome!
RE: If you notice when Engram is engaged and a big contributor  
BillKo : 9/15/2020 3:39 pm : link
In comment 14973459 JonC said:
Quote:
they got him involved early and quickly engaged in the action.

When they don't or things don't go his way, he seems to drift away.


Well, last night he dropped a pass in the first series I think.

And then missed a block.

Then - at least what I saw - should have continued to move to his left when he was released in the endzone by his defender - but didn't and the TD was incomplete.

He was involved early and F'd up everything. Then the PI call in the 2nd quarter.

I'd seriously demote him this week. Smith is MUCH more reliable.
Are we sure he gets great separation?  
kdog77 : 9/15/2020 3:50 pm : link
Every target to him last night seemed well covered by LB or Safety. The PI call basically showed him with one arm pushing the defender away from him.
First game action in a new system. No pre-season games.  
81_Great_Dane : 9/15/2020 3:53 pm : link
It is not a good idea to give up on any player after week 1 in this situation. Some people "get it" faster than others. Jones looked pretty good but not perfect. Gates looked lost. Engram didn't seem to be playing fast.

There were clear signs that some guys on both sides of the ball just didn't really know what they were supposed to be doing out there. If that's still the case in week 5, then you have to think about benching and replacing guys. For now, you chew antacids and try to be patient.

The thing that doomed Shurmur and his staff was the lack of progress. I have high hopes that we will see progress this year. Maybe not week-to-week, but certainly month-to-month.
I don't think system has anything to do with dropping perfect passes  
Victor in CT : 9/15/2020 4:17 pm : link
Lets face it, he has a history now. he is what he is. A tweener with great athletic ability but who is not a great football player. Poster child for the Reese/Ross draft board.
RE: RE: RE: He has the worst hands on the roster  
Victor in CT : 9/15/2020 4:17 pm : link
In comment 14973447 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 14973444 MacGruber said:


Quote:


In comment 14973433 Ben in Tampa said:


Quote:


We don’t need a WR who can’t catch



A WR that cant catch is better than a TE that cant catch or fucking block......



A WR that can't catch is a CB...or Tim Carter


LOL
RE: RE: If you notice when Engram is engaged and a big contributor  
JonC : 9/15/2020 4:19 pm : link
In comment 14973464 BillKo said:
Quote:
In comment 14973459 JonC said:


Quote:


they got him involved early and quickly engaged in the action.

When they don't or things don't go his way, he seems to drift away.



Well, last night he dropped a pass in the first series I think.

And then missed a block.

Then - at least what I saw - should have continued to move to his left when he was released in the endzone by his defender - but didn't and the TD was incomplete.

He was involved early and F'd up everything. Then the PI call in the 2nd quarter.

I'd seriously demote him this week. Smith is MUCH more reliable.


Yep, and I'm pretty sure he's supposed to run a route into the endzone and give his QB a target to hit. Loss of four points on EE. Too many mental and physical errors from him.
RE: First game action in a new system. No pre-season games.  
MacGruber : 9/15/2020 4:33 pm : link
In comment 14973476 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
It is not a good idea to give up on any player after week 1 in this situation. Some people "get it" faster than others. Jones looked pretty good but not perfect. Gates looked lost. Engram didn't seem to be playing fast.

There were clear signs that some guys on both sides of the ball just didn't really know what they were supposed to be doing out there. If that's still the case in week 5, then you have to think about benching and replacing guys. For now, you chew antacids and try to be patient.

The thing that doomed Shurmur and his staff was the lack of progress. I have high hopes that we will see progress this year. Maybe not week-to-week, but certainly month-to-month.


Can you really consider making the move to WR after 4 years in the league giving up after 1 week?

It's pretty safe to say hes never going to be a good tight end.
He isnt a WR  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 9/15/2020 4:35 pm : link
It's time we realize he isnt very good. Moving him to WR isnt going to fix anything.
Do we know if #3 is really true?  
Section331 : 9/15/2020 4:40 pm : link
TE's generally don't have to be great route runners, so it would be atypical for one to be really good at it.

And once Tate comes back, how often would EE play? It's one game, decidedly not a good one for EE, but it's understandable why some guys would struggle with this weird preseason.
I've been a Giants fan for 62 years, and never ...  
Manny in CA : 9/15/2020 4:52 pm : link

Have I've seen a more polarizing player on this team, than Evan Engram, because he seems to have all the tools- speed, agility and big body. He'll make a spectacular play, then he'll fail the smallest test.

I think the problem is between his ears. Next to the QB, TE might be the most demanding position on the offense ...

You need someone that has offensive blocking skills (not just power, but technique); field awareness, how to adjust to the defense and how to fight through a lot traffic to get to a particular pass target position ON TIME; ball tracking and catching the ball; attitude - the mental desire to run over little people (defensive back).

The two best Ive ever seen - John Mackey, Jason Whitten.

Engram just isn't smart or mean enough to play the tight end position. Put him in where he doesn't have to think as much (receiver), he'll be fine.





His forty time is all he has  
averagejoe : 9/15/2020 5:00 pm : link
Horrible route runner, no instincts, bad hands, can't block..he has it all.

His forty time has made him millions. The guy is not a football player. Never was.
Runs really great routes?  
redwhiteandbigblue : 9/15/2020 6:06 pm : link
Um no. Actually one of his weaknesses. Cuts many short and not great footwork. While far from his biggest weakness, he is not wr material on any level.
Anyone know Engram’s PFF grade.  
JoeyBigBlue : 9/15/2020 6:55 pm : link
I can’t imagine it was high.
He's going to find himself at a crossroads with this staff  
j_rud : 9/15/2020 6:56 pm : link
soon enough. I think his potential will see the staff give him every opportunity, but if the things JonC pointed out continue to plague him (and in turn, the offense), he'll see the field less. He is too often the polar opposite of what Judge has talked about (smart, reliable, mentally/physically tough, etc).

Engram's..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/15/2020 6:58 pm : link
biggest value is getting him isolated in mismatches on DE's or LB's. He completely loses that advantage as a WR.

If he continues to have mental errors, he won't be long for Judge, I fear
Engram killed all the momentum we had in the beginining  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/15/2020 7:04 pm : link
of the game with 5 negative plays in 2 series. This team could have taken a commanding lead with replacement-level TE play.
there were a few times last night  
santacruzom : 9/15/2020 7:17 pm : link
where I thought he made a great catch, only to find it was actually Darius Slayton. Slayton's making more plays in the middle of the field than your supposedly uber-athletic first round TE!
RE: His forty time is all he has  
Percy : 9/15/2020 9:26 pm : link
In comment 14973581 averagejoe said:
Quote:
Horrible route runner, no instincts, bad hands, can't block..he has it all.

His forty time has made him millions. The guy is not a football player. Never was.

.
after  
broadbandz : 9/16/2020 3:27 am : link
looking like a "beast" according the the beat writes Engram put up a 30 on pff. Guy flat out sucks at football.
I'm down big time on EE too, believe me  
mpinmaine : 9/16/2020 5:31 am : link
I think they give him 3 more games to produce tho
RE: RE: He has the worst hands on the roster  
Milton : 9/16/2020 5:35 am : link
In comment 14973444 MacGruber said:
Quote:
In comment 14973433 Ben in Tampa said:


Quote:


We don’t need a WR who can’t catch



A WR that cant catch is better than a TE that cant catch or fucking block.....
This is it! One of the greatest lines in the history of BBI! And I mean that with all affection. Let's move him to WR because a WR that can't catch is better than a TE that can't catch or fucking block! And if he's bad enough at that, we can move him to QB. He has the right size for the QB position and he has that 4.4 speed.
He doesn’t have an NFL position.  
cosmicj : 9/16/2020 5:37 am : link
.
He's a liability  
Manny in CA : 9/16/2020 1:02 pm : link

Especially at tight end (no matter how much he "wows" Joe Judge).

Tight end requires a workman like mentality; Kaden Smith (who is not the athlete that Engram is) has that, Engram doesn't.
Here's what I don't get: EE is listed as 6'3, 240  
CT Charlie : 9/16/2020 2:13 pm : link
and Kaden Smith 6'5, 249. Smith looks like a tank, but EE looks like a reed, even though Smith is only 9 pounds heavier and his weight is spread over a taller frame.
I believe that  
darren in pdx : 9/16/2020 2:32 pm : link
Engram looked good during the offseason, but practice isn't the same as a real game. If he shows up like that again I can see the staff putting him in the dog house, Kaden Smith should be TE1 moving forward until/if Engram gets his head out of his ass.
Engram is chiseled .....  
Manny in CA : 9/16/2020 3:05 pm : link

Smith is what used to be called "country strong"
Engram is an athlete. Smith is a football player  
Victor in CT : 9/16/2020 3:29 pm : link
there's a difference
move him to receiver? nah. move him to the bench.  
japanhead : 9/16/2020 4:04 pm : link
EE is so bad he makes me miss brandon myers.
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