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DG made the right calls

Giants : 9/15/2020 4:20 pm
took a lot of heat for some of his trades or allowing a player to leave. Now as time has passed it looks like DG made the right call. Collins got paid but has not produced. OBJ got his money then got traded away. Has not produced close to his pay. Plus had another injury and missed games. Now he doesn't look like the same player he once was.
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he also took a ton of heat  
KDavies : 9/15/2020 4:24 pm : link
for passing on Darnold/Rosen. That was the right call. He also took a ton of heat for drafting Daniel Jones. That was also the right call. He hasn't been perfect, but he has made the right call on a lot of the big moves.
At worst, you can say he's been hit and miss  
BlackLight : 9/15/2020 4:24 pm : link
But it really does seem like people focus too much on the misses.
over all DG  
Giants : 9/15/2020 4:28 pm : link
has been good for the Giants
he's got one black eye as far as I am concerned  
djm : 9/15/2020 4:31 pm : link
and that's the Baker pick. The other so called mistakes, Solder, That awful OG we signed prior to 18, even the deal for Ogletree, were stop gap moves and really only Solder cost us a lot of cap room. Ogletree ok fine, but he was ok his first year and we're free of his cap hit more or less.

Baker was brutal, but that's really the only bad draft pick he's made. So many good ones. Even Carter looks like a worthy 3rd round pick. He's going to play in this league a long time.

Wish we could do the Baker pick over again but shit happens.

He has made some good calls shedding folks from the roster  
LBH15 : 9/15/2020 4:33 pm : link
but nowhere near enough building it back up.
I like a lot of what DG has done  
GiantNatty : 9/15/2020 4:39 pm : link
and overall I think he knows what he's doing. But they have to start winning. At some point, they have to show that they can win.

The defense lacks a leader/playmaker and it's been neglected for a while now. Maybe he envisioned McKinney in that role and is the victim of bad luck (Baker included), but either way, give that he's gone RB, QB, and LT in three consecutive first rounds, I expect a heavy investment in the defense this offseason.
He's had 3 years to improve....  
GMen72 : 9/15/2020 4:42 pm : link
The secondary (it sucks), the OLine (below average), and the pass rush (possibly the worst in the NFL). William's trade was a mess (not to mention giving away all bargaining power and being forced to tag him)...could've used the 3rd rounder on a center.

How do you take Barkley and ask him to run behind a terrible OLine for 3 years? Trading for Peppers and saying we got two 1st rounders...he's below average safety? Your plan A at center is converting an OT...that's brilliant.

There's been more miss than hit. The rest of the NFC East hopes he never leaves.
He has been good  
BleedBlue : 9/15/2020 4:48 pm : link
Good:

Trading OBJ

drafting d lawerence-he could get all pro votes this year

jones-passing on haskins and got us a franchise QB

barkley-passing on darnold and rosen, he was the best player in draft

letting collins walk, he is so overhyped and overpaid

trading snacks-probably an attitude/locker room thing but solid return for a guy who was going downhill

bradberry-looked pretty good until very late.

martinez-tackling machine and great at POA. he is the best MLB we have had in some time

slayton-a #1 WR found in ROUND 5!

l williams (some say its a negative but he is a good player regardless)

golden (solid signing for the money and had a good year last year)

tate (some will say this is bad, but he produced for us last year and he isnt a long term solution, just a way to add more talent to the corp) he is also priced right and wont affect future of team in any way

zeitler- he has been just okay, but he gave the bum vernon up so this was a win. also a decent vet presence to add knowing the OL was going to see turnover and a lot of young faces

thomas- looks the part had a decent first start against a great front

hernandez- still early and you could argue a negative, but he has been a starter for us through two coaches so clearly many people feel he has talent

holmes - solid first game jury still out but this would definitely be a positive

carter- he is a third rounder and they got good value there, i expect him to be around a while

His drafts- he has drafted well and found good value in mid and late rounds

bad:

alec ogletree - good first year, but didnt really HURT us long term as we cleared the money

sam beal

baker(you could argue it isnt his fault)

solder (you could argue at the time the giants OL had NO stabilizing force so the signing was needed)

j stewart( people act like he was signed to be a huge producer for us. he was a depth vet signing, he had to fill the roster)

shurmur hiring (he had a part but wasnt the sole decision maker here)

jenkins (i think he was a quality player, but this was an attitude thing i think)

love- shaky, but a depth guy. sort of nitpicking there

ballentine- got abused last night, should be a backup, so i put under negative but shouldnt kill dave for this as he was meant to be depth and a project who could potentially start

gates-wow i feel bad putting him here, it was his FIRST start. I think the really thing here is the center position from halap to pulley to gates, we are still searching for that guy. maybe april brings it or gates gets better

remmers-he was trash but he was also a stopgap as its hard to add EVERYONE in a single offseason. Lets see what we have in peart, this could be another nice find by DG



overall, he has been good. his failures outside of solder arent team destroying. the OBJ thing had to go down and he clearly won that trade at this point.
Overall, he catches WAY too much shit. the giants team is young and has a new scheme and staff. it takes time for young guys to get acclimated and make plays. I for one like the direction of the team. DG has been forced to pivot a couple of times all while battling cancer. I think he has done a solid job especially in the draft.
Personally  
JB_in_DC : 9/15/2020 4:49 pm : link
I will never get over the Jonathan Stewart contract.

Just kidding.

But lets be real - he's pumped serious resources into the OL and CB positions and those are still the two greatest weaknesses on this team.

Obviously if Jones is a hit, all that can be forgiven.
This is not a popular opinion but  
give66 : 9/15/2020 4:52 pm : link
I think he has had ample opportunity to trade down and gain draft picks and is just not savvy enough to do it.

RE: This is not a popular opinion but  
BleedBlue : 9/15/2020 4:54 pm : link
In comment 14973569 give66 said:
Quote:
I think he has had ample opportunity to trade down and gain draft picks and is just not savvy enough to do it.


it takes two and there is no proven fact that it works out. the team that slides down often loses. I dont think its wise to miss out on the better prospect. chances of you hitting on ALL of the picks you acquire is slim, give me 1 sure thing vs 3 maybes
RE: RE: This is not a popular opinion but  
give66 : 9/15/2020 5:03 pm : link
This article might change your opinion.

In comment 14973571 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 14973569 give66 said:


Quote:


I think he has had ample opportunity to trade down and gain draft picks and is just not savvy enough to do it.




it takes two and there is no proven fact that it works out. the team that slides down often loses. I dont think its wise to miss out on the better prospect. chances of you hitting on ALL of the picks you acquire is slim, give me 1 sure thing vs 3 maybes

Link - ( New Window )
All of this has been debated endlessly  
arniefez : 9/15/2020 5:14 pm : link
there are arguments to made both ways. Overall in my opinion he is the wrong man for the job in 2020.

I'll give you one example. Look st the two defensives from last night.

One defense has ferocious edge rushers who are speed players and pluggers as DLs. The other defense has premium draft picks and money spent on big slow DLs who at best can push the pocket.

That's a GM philosophy that has been passed by in the modern NFL. It's a flawed plan.

If your defense can't disrupt and potentially sack the QB every time he drops back your team has no chance in this NFL.

Even the whole "hog molly" thing is ass backward in this NFL. The best OLs are athletes not big slow guys like Hernandez who is quickly becoming a replacement player.

Hopefully Dave is retired after this season and Judge has some input on on a young GM who he messes with philosophically.
😂  
jeff57 : 9/15/2020 5:16 pm : link
Yes, and he has the record to prove it.
if he's been making the right  
Enzo : 9/15/2020 5:26 pm : link
calls I'd hate to see how bad we'd be with him making the wrong ones.
if he's made such good calls, why do we stink?  
mikeinbloomfield : 9/15/2020 5:29 pm : link
I'm being flip but he's had three years to fix the OL and back seven. They still need fixing. He hasn't helped himself with mistakes like giving up picks for a Williams and big contract for Solder.
RE: At worst, you can say he's been hit and miss  
81_Great_Dane : 9/15/2020 5:32 pm : link
In comment 14973526 BlackLight said:
Quote:
But it really does seem like people focus too much on the misses.
A lot of fans forget that EVERY team misses on picks. Every team has guys who never pan out and don't stay with the team for that second contract. We wail and gnash our teeth at the Giants' misses, fair enough. The trick is to not miss very often. Reese had a bunch of hits under Accorsi, but when he stepped up to run the show, there were way, way, WAY too many misses.
RE: RE: This is not a popular opinion but  
Enzo : 9/15/2020 5:41 pm : link
In comment 14973571 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 14973569 give66 said:


Quote:


I think he has had ample opportunity to trade down and gain draft picks and is just not savvy enough to do it.




it takes two and there is no proven fact that it works out. the team that slides down often loses. I dont think its wise to miss out on the better prospect. chances of you hitting on ALL of the picks you acquire is slim, give me 1 sure thing vs 3 maybes

where do you get these "sure things" you speak of? The fact sure things don't exist is a prime reason for the occasional trade down - if you know that even the smartest teams miss on draft picks, why not give yourself more bites at the apple?

It really takes a special kind of arrogance to simply never do it. Or just an inability to think quickly when on the clock. But there's no way any of that applies to DG!
...  
ryanmkeane : 9/15/2020 5:51 pm : link
It took 1.5 seasons to get there, but DG seems to be on the right path now. He tried the "rebuild while winning" thing and it just wasn't the right move. That's obvious and it has been talked about forever. But, after all is said and done, the post Eli era, he seems to have gotten the most important things right, (QB, HC, LT) but won't mean much if he can't round out the roster and find more talent especially on defense. It's going to take another offseason.
It really is amazing to me  
ryanmkeane : 9/15/2020 5:57 pm : link
that we have so many smart posters on this board who can't help themselves and can't see the bigger picture. Asking things like "well why aren't we good then?" is a complete lack of awareness to how building a team in the NFL works.

You build through the draft and smart free agency signings. The roster that DG took over, may have been the worst roster in all of football, in all seriousness. It was that bad. Zero depth, zero plan, and bad contracts throughout the roster.

You can't reverse that in 1 season, let alone 2. You have to flush it all down and start over, which they have finally done. And now that they've finally done it (post 2019) you guys want to know why we suck?
RE: It really is amazing to me  
Enzo : 9/15/2020 6:04 pm : link
In comment 14973633 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
that we have so many smart posters on this board who can't help themselves and can't see the bigger picture. Asking things like "well why aren't we good then?" is a complete lack of awareness to how building a team in the NFL works.

You build through the draft and smart free agency signings. The roster that DG took over, may have been the worst roster in all of football, in all seriousness. It was that bad. Zero depth, zero plan, and bad contracts throughout the roster.

You can't reverse that in 1 season, let alone 2. You have to flush it all down and start over, which they have finally done. And now that they've finally done it (post 2019) you guys want to know why we suck?

the amount of excuses people make for DG never ceases to amaze. Great job! Although I think you left out a few of the old standbys (Mara, Solder's kid, etc.)
RE: he's got one black eye as far as I am concerned  
Angel Eyes : 9/15/2020 6:19 pm : link
In comment 14973536 djm said:
Quote:
and that's the Baker pick. The other so called mistakes, Solder, That awful OG we signed prior to 18, even the deal for Ogletree, were stop gap moves and really only Solder cost us a lot of cap room. Ogletree ok fine, but he was ok his first year and we're free of his cap hit more or less.

Baker was brutal, but that's really the only bad draft pick he's made. So many good ones. Even Carter looks like a worthy 3rd round pick. He's going to play in this league a long time.

Wish we could do the Baker pick over again but shit happens.

I count trading JPP as a miss. How so? JPP has bounced back with 20 sacks in two seasons, while the draft picks we got because B.J. Hill, who took a sharp nosedive in his second season, and Kyle Lauletta, who never amounted to much; on the other hand our pass rush became one of the worst in the league, with no lasting fix.
Enzo  
ryanmkeane : 9/15/2020 6:19 pm : link
I'm really not trying to make excuses for DG, so I'm sorry if that's how it's coming across. The Shurmur hire was an abomination, and that might be putting it lightly. The Solder contract, OK, yeah, that wasn't ideal.

Outside of that? I'm good with the direction now. And if I'm really happy with the QB, LT, and coaching hires....why should I be shitting on DG?

He walked into a bad situation, tried to put a ton of lipstick on an ugly pick in a short amount of time, failed, and then regrouped with smart decisions. I'm sorry if you'll never ever ever forgive him for 2018. Some people here can get over it.
...  
ryanmkeane : 9/15/2020 6:22 pm : link
you might laugh, but as a long time Giants fan, yeah, it meant something to me for Eli Manning to retire a Giant. So while it may have been a tad smarter to let him walk and just let Jones play with no mentor his rookie year, I'll be forever fine with Eli playing his contract out and still balling for a few games while the rookie learned.

Again - not sure if anyone else feels that way, but having Eli still here for Jones' rookie season was invaluable. I could give a shit about the cap space in 2019, we were going to suck anyway.
RE: Enzo  
Angel Eyes : 9/15/2020 6:23 pm : link
In comment 14973660 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
I'm really not trying to make excuses for DG, so I'm sorry if that's how it's coming across. The Shurmur hire was an abomination, and that might be putting it lightly. The Solder contract, OK, yeah, that wasn't ideal.

Outside of that? I'm good with the direction now. And if I'm really happy with the QB, LT, and coaching hires....why should I be shitting on DG?

He walked into a bad situation, tried to put a ton of lipstick on an ugly pick in a short amount of time, failed, and then regrouped with smart decisions. I'm sorry if you'll never ever ever forgive him for 2018. Some people here can get over it.

Why did he hire Shurmer? The only other time he was head coach was with the Cleveland Browns, where he did exactly as well as he had with the Giants: 9-23.
Angel Eyes  
ryanmkeane : 9/15/2020 6:41 pm : link
want to know the coaches that were considered to be "available" in 2018? Pat Shurmur, Matt Patricia, Matt Nagy, Steve Wilks, Frank Reich, Jon Gruden, Mike Vrabel. Vrabel seems to be an awesome coach. Reich looks good too, he's still just over .500 thus far.

Looking back on it, who did you want the Giants to hire?
His first year decisions  
joeinpa : 9/15/2020 6:42 pm : link
We’re influenced by trying to “make 1 more run with Eli”, the Soldier pick up, perhaps the Shurmur hire.

But he has definitely been more good than bad.

Even passing on a quarterback, which I was upset about turned out well.

But who knew they d be in place to get a quarterback the next season.
We  
Shady Lurker : 9/15/2020 6:44 pm : link
have among the lowest-talent rosters in the league and he's been in the GM's chair for 3 years. Your expectations are really low if you think this has been a good showing.
we are not drafting  
ryanmkeane : 9/15/2020 6:45 pm : link
a QB next season. We have our QB now.

Trevor Lawrence is a really great QB prospect. Cool. Time to stop talking about him. He'll be on another team.
RE: RE: This is not a popular opinion but  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/15/2020 6:45 pm : link
In comment 14973571 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 14973569 give66 said:


Quote:


I think he has had ample opportunity to trade down and gain draft picks and is just not savvy enough to do it.




it takes two and there is no proven fact that it works out. the team that slides down often loses. I dont think its wise to miss out on the better prospect. chances of you hitting on ALL of the picks you acquire is slim, give me 1 sure thing vs 3 maybes

The reason why the chances of hitting on all of your picks is because there are no sure things. The idea isn't gimme one sure thing vs. three maybes. The idea is gimme three cheaper maybes vs. one more expensive maybe.
RE: Enzo  
LBH15 : 9/15/2020 7:02 pm : link
In comment 14973660 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
I'm really not trying to make excuses for DG, so I'm sorry if that's how it's coming across. The Shurmur hire was an abomination, and that might be putting it lightly. The Solder contract, OK, yeah, that wasn't ideal.

Outside of that? I'm good with the direction now. And if I'm really happy with the QB, LT, and coaching hires....why should I be shitting on DG?

He walked into a bad situation, tried to put a ton of lipstick on an ugly pick in a short amount of time, failed, and then regrouped with smart decisions. I'm sorry if you'll never ever ever forgive him for 2018. Some people here can get over it.


He has made some smarter decisions after 2018. Also some just as bad that seem to be keeping this team treading water. Nobody gets them all right but he needs a much higher batting average.
RE: RE: It really is amazing to me  
GMen72 : 9/15/2020 7:04 pm : link
In comment 14973642 Enzo said:
Quote:
In comment 14973633 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


that we have so many smart posters on this board who can't help themselves and can't see the bigger picture. Asking things like "well why aren't we good then?" is a complete lack of awareness to how building a team in the NFL works.

You build through the draft and smart free agency signings. The roster that DG took over, may have been the worst roster in all of football, in all seriousness. It was that bad. Zero depth, zero plan, and bad contracts throughout the roster.

You can't reverse that in 1 season, let alone 2. You have to flush it all down and start over, which they have finally done. And now that they've finally done it (post 2019) you guys want to know why we suck?


the amount of excuses people make for DG never ceases to amaze. Great job! Although I think you left out a few of the old standbys (Mara, Solder's kid, etc.)


"No plan" is the perfect motto for DG. Draft a QB at #6 and a RB at #2 and don't build an OLine to make them successful. William's trade was just plain stupid. We'd have him signed to a cheap longterm deal (is he even worth a longterm.deal?) right now had he not traded for him. He gave away Collins and Jackrabbit for nothing when both had trade value. If your secondary sucks, gotta pressure the QB...but he has zero plan to make that happen.

Hate to tell you...but after the last 3 years, this is still a VERY untalented NFL team.

DG sucks! This is slowly becoming an organization like the Raiders, Dolohins, and Browns...bad hires and decisions year after year and fans like you will keep saying that next year will always be our year...this team is still years (multiple) away from competing for a Super Bowl.
You can't turn an ocean liner around in a swimming pool.  
Red Dog : 9/15/2020 7:17 pm : link
GIANTS management allowed Reese and Ross to run this team into the ground over a nearly TEN YEAR period, then compounded the error with two consecutive horrible coaching hires. You simply can not turn around a disaster of this magnitude overnight.

The talent on this team was so bad, and the injuries and retirements continued to take their toll, that it will be at least a couple of more years before they really have all the holes filled with decent players. But they are slowly getting better even if it is two steps forward and one step back.

Patience, grasshopper.



He has made some right calls, got us a few finds,  
phil in arizona : 9/15/2020 7:23 pm : link
and I have to give him some credit for cutting some of his losses fairly quickly... But his resource management has been brutal. He also signed off on Shurmur and that horrendous coaching staff.
GMen  
ryanmkeane : 9/15/2020 7:24 pm : link
are you living in an alternate reality? DG has now drafted a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 5th round pick on the OL throughout his tenure. How is that not building the OL?
RE: GMen  
LBH15 : 9/15/2020 7:35 pm : link
In comment 14973721 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
are you living in an alternate reality? DG has now drafted a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 5th round pick on the OL throughout his tenure. How is that not building the OL?


Ryan - they have to actually be good otherwise you’re not building anything.
The 3-year W/L record, the disaster coaching hire,  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/15/2020 7:36 pm : link
and the admission that his plan in the first 2 years was wrong, resulting in two wasted years, says otherwise.

Solder is an abomination of a contract, they have wasted two years of Saquon in failing to provide an offensive line, and they're still short 2/5ths of a starting quality line.
RE: RE: GMen  
LBH15 : 9/15/2020 7:46 pm : link
In comment 14973732 LBH15 said:
Quote:
In comment 14973721 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


are you living in an alternate reality? DG has now drafted a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 5th round pick on the OL throughout his tenure. How is that not building the OL?



Ryan - they have to actually be good otherwise you’re not building anything.


And 3 of those 4 picks were just drafted this year. Come on, man!
He hasnt been bad  
Mark from Jersey : 9/15/2020 7:58 pm : link
remember what he inherited. I steaming pile of dog shit from years of horrible Reese drafts.

RE: You can't turn an ocean liner around in a swimming pool.  
LBH15 : 9/15/2020 8:04 pm : link
In comment 14973715 Red Dog said:
Quote:
GIANTS management allowed Reese and Ross to run this team into the ground over a nearly TEN YEAR period, then compounded the error with two consecutive horrible coaching hires. You simply can not turn around a disaster of this magnitude overnight.

The talent on this team was so bad, and the injuries and retirements continued to take their toll, that it will be at least a couple of more years before they really have all the holes filled with decent players. But they are slowly getting better even if it is two steps forward and one step back.

Patience, grasshopper.




Can you exaggerate any more? Maybe just go with a yacht next time.
How about this as an unpopular take?  
DonQuixote : 9/15/2020 8:10 pm : link
I wanted the Giants to take Josh Allen two years ago. I think he was the best QB of his class. Now, having Barkley and Jones versus Allen and another top 5 pick? I don't know, but I think we could have done just as well.

Of course, one has to say Lamar Jackson was the best QB value that year, so we might have done better...hindsight I suppose.

I just get a bit tired of the Jones v. Darnold v. Rosen takes, when I those are not the players I would have chosen from.



Are some of you  
csh2z : 9/15/2020 8:19 pm : link
already evaluating this years draft picks as losers after 1 game? I think many opinions will be different at the end of the season. That is when his 3 years can be evaluated a little bit better. Even then, it is too soon to judge most if not all of his work.
He's OK  
terptacular : 9/15/2020 8:28 pm : link
I wish we would have drafted a Center last year. It's only 1 game and maybe Gates improves, but I never like when our plan involves playing a guy out of position.
He May Have Found  
lax counsel : 9/15/2020 8:31 pm : link
The franchise qb and franchise LT may very well have been filled by him, which is enough to forgive him for many, many bad moves. Jury will be out for a bit on those two, but Jones looks like the best qb not named Mahomes or Jackson out of the last couple of drafts. Of course Mahomes looks to be on track as an all timer at this point and Jackson has certainly been a stud. Thomas held his own against arguable the best Dline in football.

If you fill the true franchise qb role (i.e., top 5-8 yearly qb) and the LT role, you'll be remembered fondly.
RE: Are some of you  
LBH15 : 9/15/2020 8:39 pm : link
In comment 14973791 csh2z said:
Quote:
already evaluating this years draft picks as losers after 1 game? I think many opinions will be different at the end of the season. That is when his 3 years can be evaluated a little bit better. Even then, it is too soon to judge most if not all of his work.


No that’s not what some of us are doing. Let us know when it’s okay to evaluate DG.
Enzo  
Bill2 : 9/15/2020 8:47 pm : link
Since the probability of turning into an average NFL player ( much less above average) goes down with each slot in round one and each round after that - how does the probability of building a roster work mathematically in your model?

It does if you get lucky in a year and it most likely actually weakens the talent pool unless you do it for depth after...after you have a core of above average players (like NE did for a few years).

I submit that its the wrong model for this part of the talent building staircase
no comment  
rasbutant : 9/15/2020 8:50 pm : link
Just mark my vote in the he's done more (important) right then wrong. I like the direction the Team is going and I'm hopeful for the future.
RE: RE: At worst, you can say he's been hit and miss  
santacruzom : 9/15/2020 9:44 pm : link
In comment 14973614 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
In comment 14973526 BlackLight said:


Quote:


But it really does seem like people focus too much on the misses.

A lot of fans forget that EVERY team misses on picks.


Also consider that every team hits on picks. Has Gettleman outproduced a large number of his GM peers?
God almighty, the excuses people will still make for this guy  
Greg from LI : 9/15/2020 9:48 pm : link
The talent level of this team is still low. Coaching staff looks better but there's only so much they can do with a trash OL and a defense with few guys who are difference makers.
RE: Angel Eyes  
Enzo : 9/15/2020 9:57 pm : link
In comment 14973679 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
want to know the coaches that were considered to be "available" in 2018? Pat Shurmur, Matt Patricia, Matt Nagy, Steve Wilks, Frank Reich, Jon Gruden, Mike Vrabel. Vrabel seems to be an awesome coach. Reich looks good too, he's still just over .500 thus far.

Looking back on it, who did you want the Giants to hire?

this is the same lazy bullshit as when people say "they had to sign Solder".
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