took a lot of heat for some of his trades or allowing a player to leave. Now as time has passed it looks like DG made the right call. Collins got paid but has not produced. OBJ got his money then got traded away. Has not produced close to his pay. Plus had another injury and missed games. Now he doesn't look like the same player he once was.
Baker was brutal, but that's really the only bad draft pick he's made. So many good ones. Even Carter looks like a worthy 3rd round pick. He's going to play in this league a long time.
Wish we could do the Baker pick over again but shit happens.
The defense lacks a leader/playmaker and it's been neglected for a while now. Maybe he envisioned McKinney in that role and is the victim of bad luck (Baker included), but either way, give that he's gone RB, QB, and LT in three consecutive first rounds, I expect a heavy investment in the defense this offseason.
How do you take Barkley and ask him to run behind a terrible OLine for 3 years? Trading for Peppers and saying we got two 1st rounders...he's below average safety? Your plan A at center is converting an OT...that's brilliant.
There's been more miss than hit. The rest of the NFC East hopes he never leaves.
Trading OBJ
drafting d lawerence-he could get all pro votes this year
jones-passing on haskins and got us a franchise QB
barkley-passing on darnold and rosen, he was the best player in draft
letting collins walk, he is so overhyped and overpaid
trading snacks-probably an attitude/locker room thing but solid return for a guy who was going downhill
bradberry-looked pretty good until very late.
martinez-tackling machine and great at POA. he is the best MLB we have had in some time
slayton-a #1 WR found in ROUND 5!
l williams (some say its a negative but he is a good player regardless)
golden (solid signing for the money and had a good year last year)
tate (some will say this is bad, but he produced for us last year and he isnt a long term solution, just a way to add more talent to the corp) he is also priced right and wont affect future of team in any way
zeitler- he has been just okay, but he gave the bum vernon up so this was a win. also a decent vet presence to add knowing the OL was going to see turnover and a lot of young faces
thomas- looks the part had a decent first start against a great front
hernandez- still early and you could argue a negative, but he has been a starter for us through two coaches so clearly many people feel he has talent
holmes - solid first game jury still out but this would definitely be a positive
carter- he is a third rounder and they got good value there, i expect him to be around a while
His drafts- he has drafted well and found good value in mid and late rounds
bad:
alec ogletree - good first year, but didnt really HURT us long term as we cleared the money
sam beal
baker(you could argue it isnt his fault)
solder (you could argue at the time the giants OL had NO stabilizing force so the signing was needed)
j stewart( people act like he was signed to be a huge producer for us. he was a depth vet signing, he had to fill the roster)
shurmur hiring (he had a part but wasnt the sole decision maker here)
jenkins (i think he was a quality player, but this was an attitude thing i think)
love- shaky, but a depth guy. sort of nitpicking there
ballentine- got abused last night, should be a backup, so i put under negative but shouldnt kill dave for this as he was meant to be depth and a project who could potentially start
gates-wow i feel bad putting him here, it was his FIRST start. I think the really thing here is the center position from halap to pulley to gates, we are still searching for that guy. maybe april brings it or gates gets better
remmers-he was trash but he was also a stopgap as its hard to add EVERYONE in a single offseason. Lets see what we have in peart, this could be another nice find by DG
overall, he has been good. his failures outside of solder arent team destroying. the OBJ thing had to go down and he clearly won that trade at this point.
Overall, he catches WAY too much shit. the giants team is young and has a new scheme and staff. it takes time for young guys to get acclimated and make plays. I for one like the direction of the team. DG has been forced to pivot a couple of times all while battling cancer. I think he has done a solid job especially in the draft.
Just kidding.
But lets be real - he's pumped serious resources into the OL and CB positions and those are still the two greatest weaknesses on this team.
Obviously if Jones is a hit, all that can be forgiven.
it takes two and there is no proven fact that it works out. the team that slides down often loses. I dont think its wise to miss out on the better prospect. chances of you hitting on ALL of the picks you acquire is slim, give me 1 sure thing vs 3 maybes
In comment 14973571 BleedBlue said:
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I think he has had ample opportunity to trade down and gain draft picks and is just not savvy enough to do it.
it takes two and there is no proven fact that it works out. the team that slides down often loses. I dont think its wise to miss out on the better prospect. chances of you hitting on ALL of the picks you acquire is slim, give me 1 sure thing vs 3 maybes
Link - ( New Window )
I'll give you one example. Look st the two defensives from last night.
One defense has ferocious edge rushers who are speed players and pluggers as DLs. The other defense has premium draft picks and money spent on big slow DLs who at best can push the pocket.
That's a GM philosophy that has been passed by in the modern NFL. It's a flawed plan.
If your defense can't disrupt and potentially sack the QB every time he drops back your team has no chance in this NFL.
Even the whole "hog molly" thing is ass backward in this NFL. The best OLs are athletes not big slow guys like Hernandez who is quickly becoming a replacement player.
Hopefully Dave is retired after this season and Judge has some input on on a young GM who he messes with philosophically.
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I think he has had ample opportunity to trade down and gain draft picks and is just not savvy enough to do it.
it takes two and there is no proven fact that it works out. the team that slides down often loses. I dont think its wise to miss out on the better prospect. chances of you hitting on ALL of the picks you acquire is slim, give me 1 sure thing vs 3 maybes
where do you get these "sure things" you speak of? The fact sure things don't exist is a prime reason for the occasional trade down - if you know that even the smartest teams miss on draft picks, why not give yourself more bites at the apple?
It really takes a special kind of arrogance to simply never do it. Or just an inability to think quickly when on the clock. But there's no way any of that applies to DG!
You build through the draft and smart free agency signings. The roster that DG took over, may have been the worst roster in all of football, in all seriousness. It was that bad. Zero depth, zero plan, and bad contracts throughout the roster.
You can't reverse that in 1 season, let alone 2. You have to flush it all down and start over, which they have finally done. And now that they've finally done it (post 2019) you guys want to know why we suck?
You build through the draft and smart free agency signings. The roster that DG took over, may have been the worst roster in all of football, in all seriousness. It was that bad. Zero depth, zero plan, and bad contracts throughout the roster.
You can't reverse that in 1 season, let alone 2. You have to flush it all down and start over, which they have finally done. And now that they've finally done it (post 2019) you guys want to know why we suck?
the amount of excuses people make for DG never ceases to amaze. Great job! Although I think you left out a few of the old standbys (Mara, Solder's kid, etc.)
Baker was brutal, but that's really the only bad draft pick he's made. So many good ones. Even Carter looks like a worthy 3rd round pick. He's going to play in this league a long time.
Wish we could do the Baker pick over again but shit happens.
I count trading JPP as a miss. How so? JPP has bounced back with 20 sacks in two seasons, while the draft picks we got because B.J. Hill, who took a sharp nosedive in his second season, and Kyle Lauletta, who never amounted to much; on the other hand our pass rush became one of the worst in the league, with no lasting fix.
Outside of that? I'm good with the direction now. And if I'm really happy with the QB, LT, and coaching hires....why should I be shitting on DG?
He walked into a bad situation, tried to put a ton of lipstick on an ugly pick in a short amount of time, failed, and then regrouped with smart decisions. I'm sorry if you'll never ever ever forgive him for 2018. Some people here can get over it.
Again - not sure if anyone else feels that way, but having Eli still here for Jones' rookie season was invaluable. I could give a shit about the cap space in 2019, we were going to suck anyway.
Outside of that? I'm good with the direction now. And if I'm really happy with the QB, LT, and coaching hires....why should I be shitting on DG?
He walked into a bad situation, tried to put a ton of lipstick on an ugly pick in a short amount of time, failed, and then regrouped with smart decisions. I'm sorry if you'll never ever ever forgive him for 2018. Some people here can get over it.
Why did he hire Shurmer? The only other time he was head coach was with the Cleveland Browns, where he did exactly as well as he had with the Giants: 9-23.
Looking back on it, who did you want the Giants to hire?
But he has definitely been more good than bad.
Even passing on a quarterback, which I was upset about turned out well.
But who knew they d be in place to get a quarterback the next season.
Trevor Lawrence is a really great QB prospect. Cool. Time to stop talking about him. He'll be on another team.
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I think he has had ample opportunity to trade down and gain draft picks and is just not savvy enough to do it.
it takes two and there is no proven fact that it works out. the team that slides down often loses. I dont think its wise to miss out on the better prospect. chances of you hitting on ALL of the picks you acquire is slim, give me 1 sure thing vs 3 maybes
The reason why the chances of hitting on all of your picks is because there are no sure things. The idea isn't gimme one sure thing vs. three maybes. The idea is gimme three cheaper maybes vs. one more expensive maybe.
Outside of that? I'm good with the direction now. And if I'm really happy with the QB, LT, and coaching hires....why should I be shitting on DG?
He walked into a bad situation, tried to put a ton of lipstick on an ugly pick in a short amount of time, failed, and then regrouped with smart decisions. I'm sorry if you'll never ever ever forgive him for 2018. Some people here can get over it.
He has made some smarter decisions after 2018. Also some just as bad that seem to be keeping this team treading water. Nobody gets them all right but he needs a much higher batting average.
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that we have so many smart posters on this board who can't help themselves and can't see the bigger picture. Asking things like "well why aren't we good then?" is a complete lack of awareness to how building a team in the NFL works.
You build through the draft and smart free agency signings. The roster that DG took over, may have been the worst roster in all of football, in all seriousness. It was that bad. Zero depth, zero plan, and bad contracts throughout the roster.
You can't reverse that in 1 season, let alone 2. You have to flush it all down and start over, which they have finally done. And now that they've finally done it (post 2019) you guys want to know why we suck?
the amount of excuses people make for DG never ceases to amaze. Great job! Although I think you left out a few of the old standbys (Mara, Solder's kid, etc.)
"No plan" is the perfect motto for DG. Draft a QB at #6 and a RB at #2 and don't build an OLine to make them successful. William's trade was just plain stupid. We'd have him signed to a cheap longterm deal (is he even worth a longterm.deal?) right now had he not traded for him. He gave away Collins and Jackrabbit for nothing when both had trade value. If your secondary sucks, gotta pressure the QB...but he has zero plan to make that happen.
Hate to tell you...but after the last 3 years, this is still a VERY untalented NFL team.
DG sucks! This is slowly becoming an organization like the Raiders, Dolohins, and Browns...bad hires and decisions year after year and fans like you will keep saying that next year will always be our year...this team is still years (multiple) away from competing for a Super Bowl.
The talent on this team was so bad, and the injuries and retirements continued to take their toll, that it will be at least a couple of more years before they really have all the holes filled with decent players. But they are slowly getting better even if it is two steps forward and one step back.
Patience, grasshopper.
Ryan - they have to actually be good otherwise you’re not building anything.
Solder is an abomination of a contract, they have wasted two years of Saquon in failing to provide an offensive line, and they're still short 2/5ths of a starting quality line.
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are you living in an alternate reality? DG has now drafted a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 5th round pick on the OL throughout his tenure. How is that not building the OL?
Ryan - they have to actually be good otherwise you’re not building anything.
And 3 of those 4 picks were just drafted this year. Come on, man!
The talent on this team was so bad, and the injuries and retirements continued to take their toll, that it will be at least a couple of more years before they really have all the holes filled with decent players. But they are slowly getting better even if it is two steps forward and one step back.
Patience, grasshopper.
Can you exaggerate any more? Maybe just go with a yacht next time.
Of course, one has to say Lamar Jackson was the best QB value that year, so we might have done better...hindsight I suppose.
I just get a bit tired of the Jones v. Darnold v. Rosen takes, when I those are not the players I would have chosen from.
If you fill the true franchise qb role (i.e., top 5-8 yearly qb) and the LT role, you'll be remembered fondly.
No that’s not what some of us are doing. Let us know when it’s okay to evaluate DG.
It does if you get lucky in a year and it most likely actually weakens the talent pool unless you do it for depth after...after you have a core of above average players (like NE did for a few years).
I submit that its the wrong model for this part of the talent building staircase
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But it really does seem like people focus too much on the misses.
A lot of fans forget that EVERY team misses on picks.
Also consider that every team hits on picks. Has Gettleman outproduced a large number of his GM peers?
Looking back on it, who did you want the Giants to hire?
this is the same lazy bullshit as when people say "they had to sign Solder".