DG made the right calls

house when he took over. But his misread the roster and Eli, but DG went the wrong way down a one-way street. He has also made some good moves and the team still isn't winning.

And you give him a "B".

Just curious, does your grading scale top out at A?

yes the most important area where there needs to be progress is W's & L's but they have only played 1 game so far in Jones' first year entering as starting QB (and more than half of the starters around him are new this year too).

Isn't it tangible progress to have Jones as the QB right now?
That the roster is a lot younger?
In a lot better cap position because they made the right decisions on OBJ & LC?
Is it encouraging to see Andrew Thomas play 1 of the better games we've seen at LT in a long time in his first game with no preseason?

the point of the thread was that with the benefit of hindsight it appears DG has made correct calls on most of (not all) the big roster decisions - many of which were unpopular and heavily criticized. Reflexively dismissing those decisions with the W-L record is a deflection given the context of the roster transition/rebuild.

DG may not deserve to stick around after this season but even if he needs to be replaced the franchise is tangibly in a much better position now because of many of his decisions. I don't understand why it's controversial to observe that they have made some inarguably good decisions that have the franchise heading in a better direction. There absolutely also needs to be some tangible evidence in the W-L this year - but these repetitive arguments don't recycle on every thread because anyone denies that or thinks DG should be given a lifetime contract and key to the city. Year 3 has traditionally been the shit or get off the pot year and I think that's the case here.

In comment 14974275 LBH15 said:

Quote:

house when he took over. But his misread the roster and Eli, but DG went the wrong way down a one-way street. He has also made some good moves and the team still isn't winning. And you give him a "B". Just curious, does your grading scale top out at A?

He went the wrong way down a one-way street?? Bullshit. There were a lot of paths to take, including replacing Eli with a guy like Darnold or Rosen, a move that could potentially set up back much further.

That's why I don't understand the Year 1 handwringing. He could have gotten every other move correct and then drafted Rosen, and where are we?? The idea that he "misread" the roster and that this is a critical error not only hasn't been proven - it gets mentioned here most every day

In comment 14974278 Eric on Li said:

Quote:

yes the most important area where there needs to be progress is W's & L's but they have only played 1 game so far in Jones' first year entering as starting QB (and more than half of the starters around him are new this year too). Isn't it tangible progress to have Jones as the QB right now? That the roster is a lot younger? In a lot better cap position because they made the right decisions on OBJ & LC? Is it encouraging to see Andrew Thomas play 1 of the better games we've seen at LT in a long time in his first game with no preseason? the point of the thread was that with the benefit of hindsight it appears DG has made correct calls on most of (not all) the big roster decisions - many of which were unpopular and heavily criticized. Reflexively dismissing those decisions with the W-L record is a deflection given the context of the roster transition/rebuild. DG may not deserve to stick around after this season but even if he needs to be replaced the franchise is tangibly in a much better position now because of many of his decisions. I don't understand why it's controversial to observe that they have made some inarguably good decisions that have the franchise heading in a better direction. There absolutely also needs to be some tangible evidence in the W-L this year - but these repetitive arguments don't recycle on every thread because anyone denies that or thinks DG should be given a lifetime contract and key to the city. Year 3 has traditionally been the shit or get off the pot year and I think that's the case here.

I generally agree with this. While I'm not necessarily confident, there's reason for hope and optimism.

In comment 14974287 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

In comment 14974275 LBH15 said: Quote: house when he took over. But his misread the roster and Eli, but DG went the wrong way down a one-way street. He has also made some good moves and the team still isn't winning. And you give him a "B". Just curious, does your grading scale top out at A? He went the wrong way down a one-way street?? Bullshit. There were a lot of paths to take, including replacing Eli with a guy like Darnold or Rosen, a move that could potentially set up back much further. That's why I don't understand the Year 1 handwringing. He could have gotten every other move correct and then drafted Rosen, and where are we?? The idea that he "misread" the roster and that this is a critical error not only hasn't been proven - it gets mentioned here most every day

The view that he misread the roster is less about delaying progress and more about losing confidence in Gettleman's abilities as GM when combined with the other errors.

In comment 14974287 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

In comment 14974275 LBH15 said: Quote: house when he took over. But his misread the roster and Eli, but DG went the wrong way down a one-way street. He has also made some good moves and the team still isn't winning. And you give him a "B". Just curious, does your grading scale top out at A? He went the wrong way down a one-way street?? Bullshit. There were a lot of paths to take, including replacing Eli with a guy like Darnold or Rosen, a move that could potentially set up back much further. That's why I don't understand the Year 1 handwringing. He could have gotten every other move correct and then drafted Rosen, and where are we?? The idea that he "misread" the roster and that this is a critical error not only hasn't been proven - it gets mentioned here most every day

You're not thinking clearly. DG said it himself that he misread it.

And suggesting he correctly bypassed what could have set the team back further is not exactly a victory. I would hope he doesn't step on EVERY landmine.

In comment 14974278 Eric on Li said:

Quote:

yes the most important area where there needs to be progress is W's & L's but they have only played 1 game so far in Jones' first year entering as starting QB (and more than half of the starters around him are new this year too). Isn't it tangible progress to have Jones as the QB right now? That the roster is a lot younger? In a lot better cap position because they made the right decisions on OBJ & LC? Is it encouraging to see Andrew Thomas play 1 of the better games we've seen at LT in a long time in his first game with no preseason? the point of the thread was that with the benefit of hindsight it appears DG has made correct calls on most of (not all) the big roster decisions - many of which were unpopular and heavily criticized. Reflexively dismissing those decisions with the W-L record is a deflection given the context of the roster transition/rebuild. DG may not deserve to stick around after this season but even if he needs to be replaced the franchise is tangibly in a much better position now because of many of his decisions. I don't understand why it's controversial to observe that they have made some inarguably good decisions that have the franchise heading in a better direction. There absolutely also needs to be some tangible evidence in the W-L this year - but these repetitive arguments don't recycle on every thread because anyone denies that or thinks DG should be given a lifetime contract and key to the city. Year 3 has traditionally been the shit or get off the pot year and I think that's the case here.

Agree with a lot of this Eric. And I do think the franchise is in better shape, but mostly because we have had so many first rounds picks (particularly early ones) which comes from the continued losing. But better shape doesn't mean winning shape, at least yet.

what does continually referencing 2018 have to do with today? Where are the obvious impacts that "misreading" the roster has left us with today?

Quote:

You're not thinking clearly. DG said it himself that he misread it. And suggesting he correctly bypassed what could have set the team back further is not exactly a victory. I would hope he doesn't step on EVERY landmine.

That's the point I don't understand. When Gettleman signs a player today and part of the backlash against that is "don't forget that he misread the roster when he took over", what exactly does that mean?

There's little to no correlation to what happened in year 1 to the rebuild we're in now. I think there's only 3 players left over from when he got here. Is the argument that he needed to jettison people more quickly or have more players gone?

Gettleman was a very successful pro personnel operator, so it was a surprise to me the two veteran, jewels of the 2018 offseason were such flops.

Solder and Ogletree were disasters and were both costly. The Giants literally had to replace them with high resource replacements 2 years later.

If the Giants had shored up left tackle and middle linebacker in the 2018 offseason, they could have funneled those resources to other positions this offseason.

In comment 14974395 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

That's the point I don't understand. When Gettleman signs a player today and part of the backlash against that is "don't forget that he misread the roster when he took over", what exactly does that mean? There's little to no correlation to what happened in year 1 to the rebuild we're in now. I think there's only 3 players left over from when he got here. Is the argument that he needed to jettison people more quickly or have more players gone?

Christian nailed it here:

Quote:

Solder and Ogletree were disasters and were both costly. The Giants literally had to replace them with high resource replacements 2 years later. If the Giants had shored up left tackle and middle linebacker in the 2018 offseason, they could have funneled those resources to other positions this offseason.

It's foolish to pretend there are no ripple effects or downstream implications for previous mistakes, especially when they require subsequent resources to correct.

In comment 14974395 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

what does continually referencing 2018 have to do with today? Where are the obvious impacts that "misreading" the roster has left us with today? Quote: You're not thinking clearly. DG said it himself that he misread it. And suggesting he correctly bypassed what could have set the team back further is not exactly a victory. I would hope he doesn't step on EVERY landmine. That's the point I don't understand. When Gettleman signs a player today and part of the backlash against that is "don't forget that he misread the roster when he took over", what exactly does that mean? There's little to no correlation to what happened in year 1 to the rebuild we're in now. I think there's only 3 players left over from when he got here. Is the argument that he needed to jettison people more quickly or have more players gone?

Keep pivoting to wherever you need to in order to help your cause.

And if you cannot see any correlation, then you truly are just being obtuse.

christian disliked the signings of Solder and Ogletree - that's different from saying misreading the roster set us back. In fact, he said that if we shored up LT and LB we could have put resources elsewhere now.

That's not misreading the roster - it was making two poor signings, neither of which I'm disputing.

I'm asking what impact "misreading" the roster has today and why it is always mentioned. And of course Googs is confused by this question - because he brings it up often - without being able to provide an answer. It is just another way to knock the GM

let's say DG came in and decided Eli couldn't cut it and drafted Rosen or Darnold.

That wouldn't have been seen as misreading the roster, yet our team would be in more trouble than we are today and it would take a massive resource to figure out what to do at QB

the OBJ and Vernon trades. I do wish he would have signed a better cb when it was clear that Baker was gone - maybe someone like Prince.

In comment 14974423 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

let's say DG came in and decided Eli couldn't cut it and drafted Rosen or Darnold. That wouldn't have been seen as misreading the roster, yet our team would be in more trouble than we are today and it would take a massive resource to figure out what to do at QB

You really want to continue to use this as your defense of the GM's performance to date...he didn't pick a QB in 2018 that wound up being bad?

This is so stupid that I will play along this same ridiculousness train of thought...why didn't he pick Lamar Jackson?

Obtuse.

how is that "defending" the performance of the GM?

I'm asking point blank how "misreading" the roster in 2018 has impacted us. What moves has it prevented or hamstrung us with? How would have completely gutting things immediately have a positive today?

And it is rich for you to call things obtuse. You're still complaining about signing Jonathon Stewart! Which means you should easily be able to explain how signing him has impacted us today - but again, you can't

Poor decisions by the GM do not help create a winning team on the field. They have negative influences. And the team isn't winning and it still requires a good deal of help despite 3 offseasons by this GM to fix it.

Do you think its bad luck?

Because he would have fucked up the rebuild anyway are not very confidence inspiring.

Gettleman needs to do better, as he said himself.

I had taken a look a while ago, and don’t have the numbers off the top of my head — but of all the veteran acquisitions in 2018 (I think there were 50 plus players on the roster at some point or another who weren’t drafted or UDFAs), not a single one was a day one 2020 starter. The only caveat being Solder.

Two years on, and if you look at the offseason as a whole, the relevant additions amount to Barkley, Hernandez, Carter, Hill, Gates. Am I missing anyone?

In short, I agree misreading is probably not the right description. I’d argue general management just didn’t add that many good players in 2018.

They added a great running back, a mid range starting guard, a question mark starting center, a mid range linebacker, and a backup lineman.

With a first, second, three thirds (including the supplemental), trades, and cap — I don’t think it was a good year.

In comment 14974515 christian said:

Quote:

In short, I agree misreading is probably not the right description. I’d argue general management just didn’t add that many good players in 2018. They added a great running back, a mid range starting guard, a question mark starting center, a mid range linebacker, and a backup lineman. With a first, second, three thirds (including the supplemental), trades, and cap — I don’t think it was a good year.

And I would agree with all of that

the goalposts are always moving for DG’s detractors. A lot of guys here said the transition at QB would be the defacto thing that would define Gettleman.

But now that’s just glossed over as an afterthought. It feels like the things he gets right, even if they are huge, are glossed over while things like the Stewart contract (at the time) are made out to be these huge blunders that are unforgivable mistakes.

In comment 14974515 christian said:

Quote:

In short, I agree misreading is probably not the right description. I’d argue general management just didn’t add that many good players in 2018. They added a great running back, a mid range starting guard, a question mark starting center, a mid range linebacker, and a backup lineman. With a first, second, three thirds (including the supplemental), trades, and cap — I don’t think it was a good year.

don't forget the lousy coach (and staff).

stances and being obtuse to every answer a poster gives you.

First you started complaining that posters don't mention Gettleman's good moves enough which is both silly and petty. If you think he is so short-changed here then why don't you post his achievements instead of calling everybody a moron.

Then you pivoted to what progress could DG realistically have in year one because he was left with such a disaster. Yet he didn't think so at the time but later publicly said he made a mistake.

Then you pivoted to he was hamstrung by so many bad contracts in year one. Yet, he goes right out and creates 2 more incredibly bad ones in signing up Solder and trading for Ogletree.

Then you pivoted to he didn't really "waste" the entire first year anyway because he landed a franchise running back. Great job, pick the highest rated RB on the board at #2.

Then you wanted to pivot to lecturing us on the fact that at least he didn't make the mistake of drafting Darnold or Rosen to replace Eli. Again great job not making a bad team worse. Don't concern yourself with making it better timely, just not worse.

Then you wanted to pivot to "misreading" the roster really didn't affect this rebuild at all. Missing that being so short-sighted and desperate only created more problems at the outset. As noted above, thinking guys like Solder and Ogletree help in the short window, but really all they did was provide bad play, were super costly, and then resources had to be spent later to replace them. Also, he has some younger players under contract that are keepers and he is pissing away $ and their playing lives while he wastes a year or so missing the rest of the roster. Or that he would rethink the players he signed and/or drafted if he knew how to better evaluate a roster. Or maybe he checks his ego at the door in 2018 and parlays that #2 pick into several core OL/DL pieces versus a running back that had 6 yards on 15 carries Monday night in YEAR 3 of his tenure. Or the simple fact that missing this provides less confidence in his overall evaluation skills as a GM.

Britt, I think most fans would argue the goal post for general management is getting this team back in the playoffs. And that looks unattainable this year.

I never personally got caught up in which QB to draft in 18. I’ve always maintained you need to get the coach right, then worry about QB. I like Jones and think he’s a good QB. I like Barkley and think he’s a great running back.

I hope the order of operations lines up. The data and history pretty clearly show returns on a running back tail deeply after about 5-6 seasons. The data and history show the returns on a QB don’t really kick up until years 2 on.

I think we are in a window right now where peak Barkley and emerging Jones lineup. And the part that sucks is the line is still so fragile. I really hope all three of those components lineup in the next few years.

next time, I'll focus on consistency like bitching about the Stewart signing for 3 years.

Across multiple handles.

That sure will be fruitful

In comment 14974526 Britt in VA said:

Quote:

the goalposts are always moving for DG’s detractors. A lot of guys here said the transition at QB would be the defacto thing that would define Gettleman. But now that’s just glossed over as an afterthought. It feels like the things he gets right, even if they are huge, are glossed over while things like the Stewart contract (at the time) are made out to be these huge blunders that are unforgivable mistakes.

The goal post has always been to build a contending team.

If he nails the QB transition yet still can't build a playoff team, he did an awful job. Are we closer to contention than we were when he took the job? Yeah, I think so. But I also think it was hard to get much lower, and think some poor decisions have slowed progress. I'm also not confident we definitely have the makings of a contender yet. Phrased a bit differently, I want to have the feeling I had at the end of 2020 that I did at the end of 2004. I don't have that optimism yet. And yes, there were big differences (the 04 Giants had real veteran talent, etc. - but I hope you get my point).

You're not getting any better at this. Move along and find someone else to curse at...its what you seemingly do well.

In comment 14974564 BrettNYG10 said:

Quote:

In comment 14974526 Britt in VA said: Quote: the goalposts are always moving for DG’s detractors. A lot of guys here said the transition at QB would be the defacto thing that would define Gettleman. But now that’s just glossed over as an afterthought. It feels like the things he gets right, even if they are huge, are glossed over while things like the Stewart contract (at the time) are made out to be these huge blunders that are unforgivable mistakes. The goal post has always been to build a contending team. If he nails the QB transition yet still can't build a playoff team, he did an awful job. Are we closer to contention than we were when he took the job? Yeah, I think so. But I also think it was hard to get much lower, and think some poor decisions have slowed progress. I'm also not confident we definitely have the makings of a contender yet. Phrased a bit differently, I want to have the feeling I had at the end of 2020 that I did at the end of 2004. I don't have that optimism yet. And yes, there were big differences (the 04 Giants had real veteran talent, etc. - but I hope you get my point).

Me too, but how many games in a row did we lose before getting that final victory? Hopefully we get there sooner than the end of this season. Despite the opening loss, I saw some improvements to be hopeful about.

In comment 14974526 Britt in VA said:

Quote:

the goalposts are always moving for DG’s detractors.

No, its the opposite.

The schedule is brutal. The team is young. We can go 4-12 and I can still be excited about 2020 depending on where things seem to be heading. This is very much a wait-and-see year to me, which isn't really fun for message board purposes.

.

I keep coming back to two major indicators this year:

- can the Giants block better upfront
- can the Giants defend the pass better

If the Giants show marked improvements in those two areas I will be excited for next year.

I’ve seen this one too many times to assume it. The Giants are counting on a rookie 4th round, and two second mid/late round picks in the secondary. And they are counting on an UDFA center and a journeyman right tackle.

In comment 14974544 LBH15 said:

Quote:

stances and being obtuse to every answer a poster gives you. First you started complaining that posters don't mention Gettleman's good moves enough which is both silly and petty. If you think he is so short-changed here then why don't you post his achievements instead of calling everybody a moron. Then you pivoted to what progress could DG realistically have in year one because he was left with such a disaster. Yet he didn't think so at the time but later publicly said he made a mistake. Then you pivoted to he was hamstrung by so many bad contracts in year one. Yet, he goes right out and creates 2 more incredibly bad ones in signing up Solder and trading for Ogletree. Then you pivoted to he didn't really "waste" the entire first year anyway because he landed a franchise running back. Great job, pick the highest rated RB on the board at #2. Then you wanted to pivot to lecturing us on the fact that at least he didn't make the mistake of drafting Darnold or Rosen to replace Eli. Again great job not making a bad team worse. Don't concern yourself with making it better timely, just not worse. Then you wanted to pivot to "misreading" the roster really didn't affect this rebuild at all. Missing that being so short-sighted and desperate only created more problems at the outset. As noted above, thinking guys like Solder and Ogletree help in the short window, but really all they did was provide bad play, were super costly, and then resources had to be spent later to replace them. Also, he has some younger players under contract that are keepers and he is pissing away $ and their playing lives while he wastes a year or so missing the rest of the roster. Or that he would rethink the players he signed and/or drafted if he knew how to better evaluate a roster. Or maybe he checks his ego at the door in 2018 and parlays that #2 pick into several core OL/DL pieces versus a running back that had 6 yards on 15 carries Monday night in YEAR 3 of his tenure. Or the simple fact that missing this provides less confidence in his overall evaluation skills as a GM.

Bingo!

In comment 14974575 LBH15 said:

Quote:

In comment 14974526 Britt in VA said: Quote: the goalposts are always moving for DG’s detractors. No, its the opposite.

Exactly. The goalposts are fairly static for DG's critics: if he's doing such a great job, we should see it translate into wins at some point, right? Or is it just Reese's fault in perpetuity?

If/when we have a consistent winning team, everyone should agree that DG deserves credit for the roster (and if anyone refuses to give him credit at that point, then I'd agree they're moving the goalposts). Until then, though, it's the excuses and accolades in absence of any real victories on the field that is the very definition of moving the goalposts.

In comment 14974318 LBH15 said:

Quote:

In comment 14974287 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: In comment 14974275 LBH15 said: Quote: house when he took over. But his misread the roster and Eli, but DG went the wrong way down a one-way street. He has also made some good moves and the team still isn't winning. And you give him a "B". Just curious, does your grading scale top out at A? He went the wrong way down a one-way street?? Bullshit. There were a lot of paths to take, including replacing Eli with a guy like Darnold or Rosen, a move that could potentially set up back much further. That's why I don't understand the Year 1 handwringing. He could have gotten every other move correct and then drafted Rosen, and where are we?? The idea that he "misread" the roster and that this is a critical error not only hasn't been proven - it gets mentioned here most every day You're not thinking clearly. DG said it himself that he misread it. And suggesting he correctly bypassed what could have set the team back further is not exactly a victory. I would hope he doesn't step on EVERY landmine.

Give me a fucking break with what DG said. Please just stop.

Someone please enlighten us all on what magic rebuilding moves could have been made prior to 2018 that lead us to a much better place today. Please. I am all ears.

If you don't think this roster and checkbook isn't in a much better place today than it was in 2018 I give up. Things can take time. We all wanted to win in 2018. Some of us cautiously hoped they would. They lost about 5 games that year that could have gone either way and 2-3 of them probably should have. We weren't well coached and we weren't THAT good but they were better than the 2017 team. the minute that team had no shot, DG dumped the vets and kicked off the true rebuild. 2019 that team wasn't going to win fuck all, it was infantile across the board. Ok? Now we are in the dawn of 2020 and some of you can't wait to shovel more dirt and conjure up THREE YEARS! It's like talking to a brick wall. Even if Dg is run outta town after this season, some of you are ridiculous. You will never be right on this stance no matter what happens to DG. Never.

that is a made up narrative that was pulled out of your ass all because of the Eli decision and some lip service.

Just because he signed Solder and some vets doesn't mean he misread shit. It means DG wanted to restore order to an absolutely toxic and maligned locker room. He signs one left tackle after literally the most awful OL ever disgraced the team one year prior. Solder was 30 when he was signed. Never hurt. He comes here, plays OK that first year and then falls apart and the knives come out. How convenient.

You don't know what the hell was being said behind the scenes in early 2018. You don't know wtf Mara or Tisch were "advising" DG to do. You don't know shit. Neiter do I. But I don't sit here and act like I do and then condemn the GM for saying something in a press conference.

How does the roster look? To some it's awful. To others it's young and up n coming. I guess it's up to the beholder, but make no mistake, DG has issued a well needed enema to this entire franchise and the roster is young, cheap and buying in to what the coaching is preaching.

In comment 14974526 Britt in VA said:

Quote:

the goalposts are always moving for DG’s detractors. A lot of guys here said the transition at QB would be the defacto thing that would define Gettleman. But now that’s just glossed over as an afterthought. It feels like the things he gets right, even if they are huge, are glossed over while things like the Stewart contract (at the time) are made out to be these huge blunders that are unforgivable mistakes.

Very specifically to the bolded point above, my recollection is that it has largely been DG's most vocal supporters who have said things like "you guys might be right about Solder and Ogletree (add whatever other criticisms), but if DG nails the QB transition and finds us another franchise QB right after Eli, he will have done a good job."

Most of his critics actually just want the team to win again. Somehow we get painted as the bad fans for being dissatisfied with a crappy on-field product though. After all, if the rest of the roster that DG builds around Daniel Jones turns DJ into the second coming of Archie Manning instead of Eli Manning, will DG really deserve any credit just for Jones?

I mean, any year now..

In comment 14974694 djm said:

Quote:

that is a made up narrative that was pulled out of your ass all because of the Eli decision and some lip service.

You're so busy fellating every move the Giants make that you seem to have missed the fact that Gettleman himself admitted to misreading the roster. I think he actually used those exact words.

DG detractors will never be right even though DG himself confirmed what many of us have been saying for the past two years.

myself and most of the other pessimists like most of what the team has done this off season, mostly around the Judge hire. But after a week one drubbing it’s not the time for the DG defenders to deliver a told you so.

In comment 14974705 Gatorade Dunk said:

Quote:

In comment 14974694 djm said: Quote: that is a made up narrative that was pulled out of your ass all because of the Eli decision and some lip service. You're so busy fellating every move the Giants make that you seem to have missed the fact that Gettleman himself admitted to misreading the roster. I think he actually used those exact words.

people that have nothing to offer make shit up. You just did. Keep at it. I never said every move was correct matter of fact i said the exact opposite.

Ok fine fire the GM for one questionable off-season that was all but rectified one off-season later. Whatever helps you sleep at night. Never mind that we don't even know for sure if things could have been differently back in 18, hey, he said some shit, that's enough!

yep that's right. Because you never fire a GM 2 years into a full blown rebuild especially when that 3rd year isn't even past the dawn stages.

I know I’m not and I haven’t seen any one else either.

In comment 14974705 Gatorade Dunk said:

Quote:

In comment 14974694 djm said: Quote: that is a made up narrative that was pulled out of your ass all because of the Eli decision and some lip service. You're so busy fellating every move the Giants make that you seem to have missed the fact that Gettleman himself admitted to misreading the roster. I think he actually used those exact words.

and you're so hell bent on riding DG outta town that you can't see there is more to a GM tenure than just PC lip service. There is also more to the Giants front office than just the GM There is the owner. The same owner who has stated that HE hires the head coach and plenty of media types have also stated that ownership has final say on a lot of decisions. Ask yourself why wasn't DG fired if he truly "miread" the roster? That's a huge indictment on someone if they truly committed that error. Are we really sure there wasn't more going on back then? ? Are we sure MAra didn't tell DG to stick with Eli one more year?

Maybe mara didn't say shit. That's certainly possible, but I question that. And even if DG felt like Eli was worth another go, he was 36 and healthy, i've seen bigger mistakes than going with Eli for one more year. He wasn't even that bad in 2018.

just don't tell me I am praising every fucking move. That's just bullshit crap. I have met in the middle on most things Giants. I try and see the big picture. I don't think DG has condemned this franchise and have stated why, pretty clearly. I's also insist on seeing how this season goes before I form a final opinion on his tenure here. And I think that's a rational and fair way to judge things.

But there isn’t much you can do about them. As John reiterated this offseason to my horror “it’s a family business”.

So Chris and Nephew Timmy keep getting promoted no matter the product on the field.

In comment 14974727 djm said:

Quote:

just don't tell me I am praising every fucking move. That's just bullshit crap. I have met in the middle on most things Giants. I try and see the big picture. I don't think DG has condemned this franchise and have stated why, pretty clearly. I's also insist on seeing how this season goes before I form a final opinion on his tenure here. And I think that's a rational and fair way to judge things.

Well Mr. Big Picture - I didn't make up anything that Gettleman said and you can go look it up yourself.

And I am all for forming a better opinion of DG using this year 3...what else are we going to do. The OP was formed indicating Gettleman was making the "right calls" to date and its okay to give opinions on that theme.

Try and control yourself a bit more with these rants. You act like a child at Toys R Us.

a poster who trolled the board with nonsense, was kicked off the board and went through the exercise of creating a new handle for the purposes of continuing to troll the board call any other poster a child?

You shouldn't ever tell any poster how to act or what is a "good look".

In comment 14974706 ron mexico said:

Quote:

DG detractors will never be right even though DG himself confirmed what many of us have been saying for the past two years. myself and most of the other pessimists like most of what the team has done this off season, mostly around the Judge hire. But after a week one drubbing it’s not the time for the DG defenders to deliver a told you so.

I would hardly call that a week 1 drubbing