|
|
|
| Quote: |
| From Tiki Barber (Tiki and Tierney/CBS Sports Radio), who knows a little something about being an all-around back: "Saquon Barkley might not be an every down back. He cannot pass protect. It's becoming glaring... and it's going to be a liability... More... |
| Quote: |
| “Recognition is one and (two), you gotta go hit a dude. Saquon Barkley is a big man who doesn't want to hit anybody. It's frustrating to watch. He's a great back, but he's frustrating to watch trying to pass protect.” |
Can't it also be true that he's really good despite the pass blocking?
One does not negate the other.
Know why? Because other teams will see this on film. The Bears aren't the Steelers on Defense but they certainly have a coaching staff and players to use multiple pressures on Sun.
As for the Parcells comment above, whenever Joe Morris cut blocked a blitzer, Bill sat him down. Different era, I know. But it's time that Barkley starts hearing some criticism.
I watched the Giants post-game delayed coverage on MSG after the game. All Sweet Young Thing wanted to do was talk about Barkley's hurdle. O'Hara, who should know better, didn't.
He needs to start hitting some fools.
He is built like Eddie George but he has no interest in the physical part of the game. That is a big problem.
You can teach a guy like Ahmad Bradshaw to block. But it's hard to teach someone who shies away from contact.
If you put Bradshaws brain on Saquons body he would be the RB everyone thought we were getting. But you cannot. He is NOT an every down RB. Can't block and will NEVER get the ball on 4th and 1. His stats are empty and meaningless. He does not help us win.
Quote:
Jacobs and Bradshaw were constantly hurt. Barkley is not getting the injury excuse. It's the NFL. You gotta get it done, or it's Not For Long.
Enough with the excuse making for this guy. I even see above it isn't fair to expect him to play well against good teams. C'mon now.
We get it by now. You wanted Chubb, Nelson or QB at #2, in ‘18.
Quote:
I realize it's a big no no to criticize Barkley here, but he has some of that "Looks like Tarzan" stuff going on.
He is built like Eddie George but he has no interest in the physical part of the game. That is a big problem.
You can teach a guy like Ahmad Bradshaw to block. But it's hard to teach someone who shies away from contact.
If you put Bradshaws brain on Saquons body he would be the RB everyone thought we were getting. But you cannot. He is NOT an every down RB. Can't block and will NEVER get the ball on 4th and 1. His stats are empty and meaningless. He does not help us win.
For a moment, I thought you were talking about TERRY Bradshaw! Mean, and more than a little bit crazy. I still remember a play where a DB had a hold of his left leg in the backfield trying to drag him down while he's looking for a receiver, and with his left hand Bradshaw is PUNCHING the would-be tackler in the top of his HELMET!
Saquon wouldn't be harmed by a touch of junk yard dog.
I'm not objective. I hated the pick the minute it was made. I hate it more now.
RBs are a dime a dozen and should be cheap. The same thing with run stuffing DLs. Gettleman pays these positions in money and in picks like they're WRs or Edge rushers.
You look at the two teams on the field Monday Night and the Steelers are everything the Giants are not. The Steelers philosophy is exact opposite of the Giants. Which bus would you rather be on?
And instead of acknowledging that this former player may have a good point you either attack him or make excuses for YOUR player not playing well...
Then say hi to Marge, Bart and Lisa for me, because you are a Homer.
This. Others have said it before, but he struggles to get tough yards between the tackles (and no I'm not referring to getting hit 5 yards in the backfield, no one expects a difference maker in that situation), and has a glaring weakness in pass protection. He looks more like Reggie Bush than Marshall Faulk at this point. Both very talented players, both very different players. Hope the remainder of the season sees the issues play out well for Barkley.
And instead of acknowledging that this former player may have a good point you either attack him or make excuses for YOUR player not playing well...
Then say hi to Marge, Bart and Lisa for me, because you are a Homer.
This. Others have said it before, but he struggles to get tough yards between the tackles (and no I'm not referring to getting hit 5 yards in the backfield, no one expects a difference maker in that situation), and has a glaring weakness in pass protection. He looks more like Reggie Bush than Marshall Faulk at this point. Both very talented players, both very different players. Hope the remainder of the season sees the issues play out well for Barkley.
I'm not objective. I hated the pick the minute it was made. I hate it more now.
RBs are a dime a dozen and should be cheap. The same thing with run stuffing DLs. Gettleman pays these positions in money and in picks like they're WRs or Edge rushers.
You look at the two teams on the field Monday Night and the Steelers are everything the Giants are not. The Steelers philosophy is exact opposite of the Giants. Which bus would you rather be on?
If he has just a decent season this year, he'll likely have the most yards from scrimmage since coming into the league
I get what you're saying here but they did lose their QB last year. If not for that they were a sure P.O. team
You can't have everything. The areas Barkley is weaker at can be taught. I'd like to also think that getting some running room will will take the focus off the pass rush (a basic football 101 level concept) and thus translate to him being able to definitively pick up his blocking assignments.
Alvin Kamala - 5’10 215lbs
Christian McCaffrey - 5’11 205lbs
Ezekiel Elliot - 6ft 225lbs
Saquon Barkley - 6ft 233lbs
Saquon needs to lower a fucking shoulder and stop all this dancing.
Well, to date, he hasn't been, so....
I wonder about that myself. It just doesn't seem like he's as explosive as he was his rookie year.
If he has just a decent season this year, he'll likely have the most yards from scrimmage since coming into the league
Barkley's problem is different IMO. He shies away from contact. That is not an easy problem to fix.
Does he really though? Are there examples of him simply evading an approaching blitzer in his range?
Maybe he simply doesn't recognize it and react/position accordingly. It's not far-fetched -- we're talking quarter seconds here.
That said, Tiki makes reasonable points. If it somehow leads to Barkley taking it up a notch like Eli did in 2007 after getting called out, and Tiki retroactively taking credit for it (again), I can live with that.
I remember that, and it looked really bad. I'm hardly knowledgeable in blocking technique (neither is Saquon! Rim shot), but his arm got caught up a bit on one of his linemen and neither of his hands even made contact with Adams. All Adams had to do was just drive right into his chest.
Two Giants' seasons worth of wins despite losing their starting QB!
Quote:
the Steelers let Bell and Brown walk and won what, exactly?
Two Giants' seasons worth of wins despite losing their starting QB!
Fantastic. I can't wait to see your elation when we get that many wins and miss the playoffs.
Stop being so "special."
Tiki is right. SB has work to do. I'd bet Tiki's words help, rather than hurt. (with the exception of a few Giants fans' butts...)
Quote:
In comment 14974620 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
the Steelers let Bell and Brown walk and won what, exactly?
Two Giants' seasons worth of wins despite losing their starting QB!
Fantastic. I can't wait to see your elation when we get that many wins and miss the playoffs.
You don't think I'd be elated with an 8-8 season this year? Man, if we had any champagne lying around at the end of Monday night's game, I'd have popped the bottle.
be Tuesday. He's in his third year, not a rookie anymore.
And yet.....
The question will be whether the Giants build an elite OL in front of him so that he rips off enough big runs to minimize the negatives runs.
And he’s not saying anything that hasn’t said before, pass pro is mental. The RB needs to know who to pick up and this is certainly something made much more difficult by poor line play, a new line, both, a 2nd year quarterback, a good scheme by the defense, etc. All of these things conspired against Barks in pass pro on Monday night. He can do better in film study, the line can come together, DJ can get better at setting protections and this will all probably happen.
But pass pro is also about attitude and wanting to hit someone. It’s probably one of the most violent collisions in a sport of lots of violent collisions. And this is something that seems to be lacking in Barks game. If we’re being honest, Bark isn’t a back who “runs angry” and he isn’t good in pass pro and he doesn’t seem like a back that wears down the defense. His game, at least so far, and it’s season three now, is kind of like a DH who strikes out a lot but can turn on any pitch and hit a moon shot tater at any time. Barks can score any time he touches the ball, and sometimes he does and he’s an amazing athlete. But game in and game out? Doing all the things an every down back needs to do? I think it’s fair to start to wonder about Barks overall ability. And again it is year three for him. So, it’s time to put it all together. Hopefully getting called out by Tiki will motivate Saquon.
One last thing to consider, if Tiki sees this, and if Tiki’s saying it, you can believe D-cos are seeing it and you bet that guys in the Giants locker room are seeing it - and even if not saying it yet - I’ll bet they’re all thinking it. It’s time for Barks change some minds and the only way to do that is to go out and get the job done. Enough with all the excuses. Go be the best player on the field and win.
And he’s not saying anything that hasn’t said before, pass pro is mental. The RB needs to know who to pick up and this is certainly something made much more difficult by poor line play, a new line, both, a 2nd year quarterback, a good scheme by the defense, etc. All of these things conspired against Barks in pass pro on Monday night. He can do better in film study, the line can come together, DJ can get better at setting protections and this will all probably happen.
But pass pro is also about attitude and wanting to hit someone. It’s probably one of the most violent collisions in a sport of lots of violent collisions. And this is something that seems to be lacking in Barks game. If we’re being honest, Bark isn’t a back who “runs angry” and he isn’t good in pass pro and he doesn’t seem like a back that wears down the defense. His game, at least so far, and it’s season three now, is kind of like a DH who strikes out a lot but can turn on any pitch and hit a moon shot tater at any time. Barks can score any time he touches the ball, and sometimes he does and he’s an amazing athlete. But game in and game out? Doing all the things an every down back needs to do? I think it’s fair to start to wonder about Barks overall ability. And again it is year three for him. So, it’s time to put it all together. Hopefully getting called out by Tiki will motivate Saquon.
One last thing to consider, if Tiki sees this, and if Tiki’s saying it, you can believe D-cos are seeing it and you bet that guys in the Giants locker room are seeing it - and even if not saying it yet - I’ll bet they’re all thinking it. It’s time for Barks change some minds and the only way to do that is to go out and get the job done. Enough with all the excuses. Go be the best player on the field and win.
Thread winner. Agree 100%
The Faulk comparison might be the most instructive. Because of his gaudy stats, and perhaps because Mike Martz’s offense is notorious for exposing QBs to fatal injury, Faulk’s blocking is largely overlooked. He was really good. With no legit TE on the field much of the time, he had to be. Faulk had Saquon’s speed, without SB’s natural strength and explosion. His key assets as a blocker, like Tiki’s, were anticipation and rapid processing. I’m pretty sure Barkley will get there. Takes time, though.
He was trying to get Barkley to just take the handoff and get N-S immediately. He was careful not to be negative about it, but it was something he was trying to coach into SB. IIRC it was the Bucs his rookie year, where he played with a more hard-nosed approach and had a great game. But it didn't last.
Didn’t see this much, if at all, rookie year.
Sure his pass blocking needs to improve, as does every Giants OL/TE/RB player. By the way CMC, Kamara, Zeke don't block for crap either (to answer a poster from above). This difference is that those teams are actually letting the RB get to the LOS before getting hit, so no one seems to care.
The question will be whether the Giants build an elite OL in front of him so that he rips off enough big runs to minimize the negatives runs.
Much as I love Jacobs, I wouldn't use him as an example of a bruising runner. Sure he looked good when he got a head of steam, but he wasn't a pile mover. There's a reason folks called him the "tiptoe burglar."
He was a better blocker than Jacobs, that's for sure.
Besides his pass catching ability, after a while,
they had Bradshaw in on 3rd downs, not Jacobs.
Once he got over his fumbling issues, liked him as well.
He was a tough S.O.B.
Quote:
Definitely doesn’t have any Brandon Jacobs in his game.
The question will be whether the Giants build an elite OL in front of him so that he rips off enough big runs to minimize the negatives runs.
Much as I love Jacobs, I wouldn't use him as an example of a bruising runner. Sure he looked good when he got a head of steam, but he wasn't a pile mover. There's a reason folks called him the "tiptoe burglar."
Some truth to that but at least Jacobs was a willing pass blocker and would deliver a blow to a defender when he got a head of steam. Barkley just wants to try to string everything to the outside and jump over defenders.
"Folks" didn't call him that. One jackass, Warren Sapp, called him that.
Even when they are about a RB.
Which Tiki was. And a damn good one at that.
Bottom line? Tiki has as much or more of a right to comment on this type of thing as just about ANY one else.
Disagree with it all you want, but don't act like he doesn't have the right to state his opinion.
For argument's sake, let's say the Giants had the best OL in the league. On passing plays, Barkley would know his assingment and there would only be one guy running free that Barkley could spot because the rest of the line is doing their job well. And so it's easier to recognize and slow down his target.
As the line gets worse, the RB's job is harder because there is more second-guessing about the assignment. On the other end of the spectrum, in the toilet, is the Giants offensive line. They give up pressure quickly and often get beat by stunts and various defensive pressures.
With more guys running free at the QB, I wonder if it causes Barkley, as the last line of defense, to hesitate about whom he should pick up to protect the QB.
For argument's sake, let's say the Giants had the best OL in the league. On passing plays, Barkley would know his assingment and there would only be one guy running free that Barkley could spot because the rest of the line is doing their job well. And so it's easier to recognize and slow down his target.
As the line gets worse, the RB's job is harder because there is more second-guessing about the assignment. On the other end of the spectrum, in the toilet, is the Giants offensive line. They give up pressure quickly and often get beat by stunts and various defensive pressures.
With more guys running free at the QB, I wonder if it causes Barkley, as the last line of defense, to hesitate about whom he should pick up to protect the QB.
Most things in football feed off each other. If the line was better, Barkley's job of blocking would be easier, sure. But things like apparently not seeing the free blitzer, or not anchoring down and getting rolled over, or just reacting to the play faster, are learned behaviors.
BB, has been scheming to his players abilities for years, and it makes me sick. You have to play to your players strengths. It’s obvious this team needs a Suey, Rathman, or Moose.
IMHO, Barkley would be different back from the I formation.
Don’t forget, Garrett, is nobody’s fool, an he is well aware of the cyclical nature of football.
Did anyone see the RB from “UCF,” today.