Tiki on Saquon's Pass Blocking

I realize it's a big no no to criticize Barkley here, but he has some of that "Looks like Tarzan" stuff going on.

He is built like Eddie George but he has no interest in the physical part of the game. That is a big problem.

You can teach a guy like Ahmad Bradshaw to block. But it's hard to teach someone who shies away from contact.

SB is an amazing talent but his blocking approach is as poor as the technique.

been saying since he came back from his injury last year that something's just not right with that guy. point blank, he's playing below average football (and i'm talking about when the opportunities are there; clearly guys hitting him in the backfield is not his fault).

I said this about Engram after the game and I'll say it about Barkley now:

You don't need someone who occasionally hits the big play. You need someone who consistently makes the small play.

his pass blocking is a huge issue.

barkley also fell down running a route the other night and dropped a pass he should have caught

he did not play well at all (i do not blame him for the lack of rushing yards)

Tiki wasn’t a great pass protector right out of the chute either. Neither was a Jacobs or Bradshaw. There’s time to learn. He works hard.

Now do Saquon's ball security!

I do remember watching him pick up a blitz pretty well on one play. I do think he'll get better at this.

In comment 14974177 Big Blue '56 said:

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Tiki wasn’t a great pass protector right out of the chute either. Neither was a Jacobs or Bradshaw. There’s time to learn. He works hard.

Jacobs was very frustrating during his rookie year because of his blocking. I remember being shocked that a RB built like a tank could be so bad at pass blocking. To his credit he did get better over the course of his career.

This is Barkley's third season. He should be a good blocker by now which is a bit concerning. He needs to improve or else the Giants will be forced to use Dion Lewis as their 3rd down back. It also adds another need to the list this offseason.

/question in case I'm seeing things...has Barkley gotten smaller overall in terms of his physique? Maybe it's the way his shoulder pads are different now, but his upper body seems smaller than when we drafted him.

In comment 14974183 Chris in Philly said:

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Now do Saquon's ball security!

😂😂😂

against one of the best defenses in the league with a pieced together OL with no preseason and limited camp. How about we relax? Or nah?

In comment 14974184 bigblue5611_2 said:

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I do remember watching him pick up a blitz pretty well on one play. I do think he'll get better at this.

Good point, I think on the deep Slayton TD he had a key pickup.

Also agree with the poster who said that he hasn't been the same since his injury. Hopefully it's a matter of shaking some rust off.

from a liability to one of the better rush pickups in the league. I remember Eli shoved him from behind after getting sacked as they walked off the field because of the blown assignment.

And bradshaw got better, did it by taking out guys at their legs - yeah occasionally he would get penalized but really knew how to use his size to an advantage.

So improvement can happen.

This was a major issue last year for him and in short sample one-game this year, he's no better.

When you take an RB that high, you really hope to see the complete package by year 3. Hopefully the coaching staff can have a breakthrough here sooner rather than later.

In comment 14974186 Jay on the Island said:

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In comment 14974177 Big Blue '56 said: Quote: Tiki wasn’t a great pass protector right out of the chute either. Neither was a Jacobs or Bradshaw. There’s time to learn. He works hard. Jacobs was very frustrating during his rookie year because of his blocking. I remember being shocked that a RB built like a tank could be so bad at pass blocking. To his credit he did get better over the course of his career. This is Barkley's third season. He should be a good blocker by now which is a bit concerning. He needs to improve or else the Giants will be forced to use Dion Lewis as their 3rd down back. It also adds another need to the list this offseason.

Agree. That said, it’s only game 1 with no real pre-season to work on it with a brand new coaching staff. He also missed a bunch of PT last year with his HAS and even when he returned couldn’t plant that well.

Jim Brown was not a good pass protector. He really didn’t care to. Of course he had a great OL to work with. When we develop our OL that should mitigate things.

That said, of course he needs to improve.

Please stop. Their problems were strictly technique and recognition but they would've gladly run thru a brick wall if you pointed out which one.

Barkley's problem is different IMO. He shies away from contact. That is not an easy problem to fix.

however, I think it's still hard to assess Saquon as a pass blocker. I think these issues really started to be noticed last year when he was clearly not at 100%, not even 80%, those first 5-6 games after coming back from the injury.

The other night, on a couple of occasions, when I watched him, he cut his guy down or slowed him down. On some other occasions, he whiffed big time.

That all said, it's one game, after no preseason with a new coach and a lot of new pieces on the OL. The entire OL looked completely disorganized in terms of picking up assignments, so it's hard to isolate too much on what Barkley did or didn't do. He does need to improve in this area going forward though.

Jacobs and Bradshaw were constantly hurt. Barkley is not getting the injury excuse. It's the NFL. You gotta get it done, or it's Not For Long.

Enough with the excuse making for this guy. I even see above it isn't fair to expect him to play well against good teams. C'mon now.

but he also was dealing with getting hit behind the LOS on all his carries, in addition to having to pick up blockers that ran straight through due to OLine misassignments.

In sum, i'm going to see how the next few games shake out before I make any determination.

organized football so this is just my opinion from watching as a fan (and could be wrong), but I have to believe when you are a RB behind a shitty OL it makes blocking harder since you have no idea where the guy is coming from you are supposed to pick up - or in some cases there are multiple players who "break through the line" and you have to decide who to pick up as opposed to when you are behind a good OL and the guy you are supposed to pick up comes from an expected place.

right now, it's like jail breaks and I'm not sure any RB can pick up these blitzes since the OL can't either.

Tiki would know better than me (and all of us for that matter), but he also had the benefit of playing a lot of his career behind a good line and maybe that just so happened to coincide with when Tiki became a better blocker.

So, it would be nice to have seen some improvement in his blocking. The fact that we haven't yet is disappointing.

will see second contracts with the giants. maybe he will turn the corner this season but thus far he hasn't played up to his potential or his draft status.

In comment 14974206 mittenedman said:

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Jacobs and Bradshaw were constantly hurt. Barkley is not getting the injury excuse. It's the NFL. You gotta get it done, or it's Not For Long. Enough with the excuse making for this guy. I even see above it isn't fair to expect him to play well against good teams. C'mon now.

We get it by now. You wanted Chubb, Nelson or QB at #2, in ‘18.

In comment 14974202 mittenedman said:

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Please stop. Their problems were strictly technique and recognition but they would've gladly run thru a brick wall if you pointed out which one. Barkley's problem is different IMO. He shies away from contact. That is not an easy problem to fix.

The big one he missed was recognition. Thomas started to get the outside guy and then dropped down (correctly, I think) to block the inside rusher. Barkley either didn't see or was late to react to the outside rusher.

In comment 14974206 mittenedman said:

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Jacobs and Bradshaw were constantly hurt. Barkley is not getting the injury excuse. It's the NFL. You gotta get it done, or it's Not For Long. Enough with the excuse making for this guy. I even see above it isn't fair to expect him to play well against good teams. C'mon now.

I'm not really seeing many excuses here. I think most of us are saying the same thing, that he does need to improve in this area, but you have to be fair too. I'm simply suggesting it's more complicated than "He sucks in pass protection". There may be certain truth to that, it is one of his most glaring weaknesses at this point in his career, but there are other factors that play into why this is the case.

Would anyone classify him as a punishing runner?

Tiki, isn’t wrong.

There's surely no reason he couldn't become an outstanding pass blocker - all the tools and smart and hardworking - but he is far from it now.

In comment 14974229 Heisenberg said:

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There's surely no reason he couldn't become an outstanding pass blocker - all the tools and smart and hardworking - but he is far from it now.

Derrr.... agree with Tiki

...so this isn't just Tiki being Tiki.

Duggan:

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Barkley had six catches for 60 yards, including a 38-yard gain on a well-designed screen in the second quarter. But Barkley also had a bad drop and continues to be a liability in pass protection, failing to pick up blitzing cornerback Mike Hilton on a third-down sack in the fourth quarter.

that isnt the point - but theres that sensitivity to any criticism of SB again. Im opining on the thread starter not pushing a personal agenda. if you dont want to discuss, dont.

In comment 14974243 mittenedman said:

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that isnt the point - but theres that sensitivity to any criticism of SB again. Im opining on the thread starter not pushing a personal agenda. if you dont want to discuss, dont.

We’ve all agreed he needs to improve. I believe he’ll get there. NOT because I’m an SB homer, but rather and mainly because he works really hard in practice.

Tiki has a HOF-level ability to get himself right back into the crosshairs of NYG fans time and time again.

In comment 14974202 mittenedman said:

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Please stop. Their problems were strictly technique and recognition but they would've gladly run thru a brick wall if you pointed out which one. Barkley's problem is different IMO. He shies away from contact. That is not an easy problem to fix.

Agreed. He plays like more like Darren sproils than the 220lb specimen he is.

SB ain't an all-around back. HE needs to get better at that. Point blank. I also wanna see him get better at running up the middle, but this is a no-no. Parcells wouldn't play backs that couldn't pass protect. Heck, little Dave Meggett did it well. What's Saquon's excuse?

In comment 14974183 Chris in Philly said:

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Now do Saquon's ball security!

LOL

I don't mean that in a harsh way, but he still seems to have that college do-it-all, score-on-every-single-touch mentality. He's wound up as tight as a drum (you can see it on the ball he caught in first half as he broke into the open field) and isn't taking care of the little things from play to play. Without being trite, it very much is about patience, "taking what the defense gives him", etc.

There's a lot that goes into crafting superhuman athletic ability into an outstanding professional football player. Barkley's at the point in his career where he needs to take that jump in order to realize his potential.

Granted, we also had some poor OL play Monday night, but I see these other issues as part of a trend with Barkley that he certainly is capable of addressing.

Efforts on pass blocking are at the marks below.

0:58 - Not terrible, but not shying away from contact

9:30 - Doesn't seem he recognized it quick enough which led to a whiff

11:07 - Decent cut block to slow down Watt on Slayton's second TD

11:17 - Could say he shied away from contact a bit but still got in Dupree's way to slow him down on the 2 point conversion.

Obviously room for improvement, but I wouldn't say he's adverse to blocking.
Highlights - ( New Window )

In comment 14974265 ron mexico said:

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In comment 14974202 mittenedman said: Quote: Please stop. Their problems were strictly technique and recognition but they would've gladly run thru a brick wall if you pointed out which one. Barkley's problem is different IMO. He shies away from contact. That is not an easy problem to fix. Agreed. He plays like more like Darren sproils than the 220lb specimen he is.

As evidenced by the fact that he always chooses to cut pass rushers rather than blast them. He’s a 700lb squat guy, a block of granite — but it’s a mentality. Not sure if you can fix it if his brain is yelling “Duck!”

Zeke is, but that's his build/style. He doesn't have that extra gear that Barkley has so its a give/take.

You can't have everything. The areas Barkley is weaker at can be taught. I'd like to also think that getting some running room will will take the focus off the pass rush (a basic football 101 level concept) and thus translate to him being able to definitively pick up his blocking assignments.

to take him out of the offense completely. Now that he is a known liability in the passing game they will continue to work the weak link there as well. It's a major problem.

I also don't think he's been the same back since Tampa last year. Besides the ankle, they roughed him up badly before the injury and it looks like teams know that he's simply not a physical back and avoids contact. It's a worrisome trend.

In comment 14974282 Jim from Katonah said:

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In comment 14974265 ron mexico said: Quote: In comment 14974202 mittenedman said: Quote: Please stop. Their problems were strictly technique and recognition but they would've gladly run thru a brick wall if you pointed out which one. Barkley's problem is different IMO. He shies away from contact. That is not an easy problem to fix. Agreed. He plays like more like Darren sproils than the 220lb specimen he is. As evidenced by the fact that he always chooses to cut pass rushers rather than blast them. He’s a 700lb squat guy, a block of granite — but it’s a mentality. Not sure if you can fix it if his brain is yelling “Duck!”

I would counter that point and ask why he needs to blast them for it to be effective? I get that it looks cool to see your RB de-cleat an on-coming blitzer, but if a cut block gets the job done and prevents a sack, what's the issue? Maybe it's a business decision and he sees it as a way of possibly preventing an injury. As long as he finds a way to pass block effectively, by any legal means necessary, I'm good with it.

In comment 14974277 bigblue5611_2 said:

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Efforts on pass blocking are at the marks below. 0:58 - Not terrible, but not shying away from contact 9:30 - Doesn't seem he recognized it quick enough which led to a whiff 11:07 - Decent cut block to slow down Watt on Slayton's second TD 11:17 - Could say he shied away from contact a bit but still got in Dupree's way to slow him down on the 2 point conversion. Obviously room for improvement, but I wouldn't say he's adverse to blocking. Highlights - ( New Window )

Exactly, this is getting over the top. Can he improve, yes. Is it awful, no. This "shy away from contact" thing is a myth that just won't die on BBI because there is a contingent that wanted someone else in the draft. He runs extremly hard, unfortunately its usually into 2-3 DL in the offensive backfield.

Oh, and for our resident experiment the esteemed adulterer, alligator wearing, throwing players under the bus Tiki, as Stapleton pointed out today Tiki sucked at blocking (some expert):

"Tiki Barber (D) has become a liability as the third-down back."

@sageman01
, Giants' First Half Report Card, @TheRecordSports
, Nov. 4, 1998

"Saquon Barkley is a big man who doesn't want to hit anybody."

And it's not only when blocking.

and probably the most qualified person on the planet to say it.

In comment 14974193 Chris in Philly said:

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against one of the best defenses in the league with a pieced together OL with no preseason and limited camp. How about we relax? Or nah?

Nah. Both the physical and mental part of his pass protection game have been criticized widely across multiple podcasts and radio/written media going back to last season.

But hey, you post here a lot so people should listen to you.

but I do not see a guy who shies away from contact...like someone said it's more recognition and reacting faster..

Tiki was a liability pass blocking his first few years and that is why he should STFU.

is Bakley trying to block Jamal Adams. That is one of the most embarrassing plays in Giants history.

I think pass RB pass blocking is 90% "want to". Saquon seems want no part of it. He should be able to block the pass rusher low if he can muster some want to.

In comment 14974289 bigblue5611_2 said:

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In comment 14974282 Jim from Katonah said: Quote: In comment 14974265 ron mexico said: Quote: In comment 14974202 mittenedman said: Quote: Please stop. Their problems were strictly technique and recognition but they would've gladly run thru a brick wall if you pointed out which one. Barkley's problem is different IMO. He shies away from contact. That is not an easy problem to fix. Agreed. He plays like more like Darren sproils than the 220lb specimen he is. As evidenced by the fact that he always chooses to cut pass rushers rather than blast them. He’s a 700lb squat guy, a block of granite — but it’s a mentality. Not sure if you can fix it if his brain is yelling “Duck!” I would counter that point and ask why he needs to blast them for it to be effective? I get that it looks cool to see your RB de-cleat an on-coming blitzer, but if a cut block gets the job done and prevents a sack, what's the issue? Maybe it's a business decision and he sees it as a way of possibly preventing an injury. As long as he finds a way to pass block effectively, by any legal means necessary, I'm good with it.

He doesn’t need to blast guys to do the job, you’re right. But it is a window into his mindset when he tries to finesse a 200lb CB who he outweighs by 30lbs. And, it’s not like his finesse is working. To be clear, I love the guy — — but superstars face greater scrutiny, based on higher expectations. It’s 1 game, I’m ready for an explosion this week. Hopefully Garrett can get him out in space with blockers