Tiki on Saquon's Pass Blocking

short-comings as a RB for the NY Football Giants. After one fucking game. Against a top-5 NFL defense.

I think I'll press the "ignore" button on this one for now.

In comment 14974303 mpinmaine said:

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but I do not see a guy who shies away from contact...like someone said it's more recognition and reacting faster.. Tiki was a liability pass blocking his first few years and that is why he should STFU.

But damn though, when he tried to leap over the CB on his long screen run I am sure I wasn't the only one holding their breath that he wouldn't land awkwardly.

One game? One game? His first two years didn't happen?

In comment 14974327 arniefez said:

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One game? One game? His first two years didn't happen?

I get it. He needs help in pass pro. This isn't new. Not his forte. But Tiki teeing off on him ... lol ... it's just the next thing Tiki has to shit on, IMO. I've long since lost respect for that assbag.

Great Giants running back. Great big douchebag.

In comment 14974177 Big Blue '56 said:

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Tiki wasn’t a great pass protector right out of the chute either. Neither was a Jacobs or Bradshaw. There’s time to learn. He works hard.

Hey Bruce, hope all is well with you and the family. I totally disagree on Jacobs and Bradshaw. Jacobs killed people in pass pro.. Barkley misses his blocks a lot was completely out of place on one late in the game that allowed a sack.

blocking.... I don't think its the physical part so much as the mental part. He just "doesn't see it" fast enough to block the free blitzer.

He takes hits as a RB so I don't see the physical part as being the issue. He is a HR hitter for sure but our OL, if it improves, he will gain that 1-2-3 yards instead of being hammered 1-2-3 yards in the backfield. It isn't really all his fault.

Twice on Monday night he approached his blocking assignment with his head down and completely missed.

I don't think it's unreasonable for people to be losing patience with him.

In comment 14974292 PatersonPlank said:

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In comment 14974277 bigblue5611_2 said: Quote: Efforts on pass blocking are at the marks below. 0:58 - Not terrible, but not shying away from contact 9:30 - Doesn't seem he recognized it quick enough which led to a whiff 11:07 - Decent cut block to slow down Watt on Slayton's second TD 11:17 - Could say he shied away from contact a bit but still got in Dupree's way to slow him down on the 2 point conversion. Obviously room for improvement, but I wouldn't say he's adverse to blocking. Highlights - ( New Window ) Exactly, this is getting over the top. Can he improve, yes. Is it awful, no. This "shy away from contact" thing is a myth that just won't die on BBI because there is a contingent that wanted someone else in the draft. He runs extremly hard, unfortunately its usually into 2-3 DL in the offensive backfield. Oh, and for our resident experiment the esteemed adulterer, alligator wearing, throwing players under the bus Tiki, as Stapleton pointed out today Tiki sucked at blocking (some expert): "Tiki Barber (D) has become a liability as the third-down back." @sageman01 , Giants' First Half Report Card, @TheRecordSports , Nov. 4, 1998

BUT, your comment seems to stem froma standpoint of just 1 game. Barkley was awful last year in pass pro as well. It isn't being anti SB to say that has to get much better than it is...

He has to improve and fast. Tiki was great at it.

I dont get why we should have kid gloves pointing out holes in his game. The expectation for him should be higher.

Its like the more beloved a player is the more people are willing to dismiss things they kill other guys for.

than stay silent

I gotta admit,I'm worried about this guy. Wouldn't be the first player to establish themselves early,than have it go to their head.

Gives a negative critique of a player on YOUR team, who is playing the same position as that former NFL star...

And instead of acknowledging that this former player may have a good point you either attack him or make excuses for YOUR player not playing well...

Then say hi to Marge, Bart and Lisa for me, because you are a Homer.

Coughlin wouldn't let Bradshaw play until he could block.

It does matter.

And with no experience at Center, and what you hope is a franchise QB under center, its significant.

It's been one game under a new regime and he hasn't had a whole lot of time (14 practices) to possibly learn any new techniques or work at his pass pro under the new regime. From the points I provided in the highlights, I don't believe he was terrible at it against the Steelers and did seem to do OK at it. In sum, lets see how he does over the next few games under the new regime in this aspect before we start declaring things.

on the RB being able to pass protect to be on the field. Hopefully he gets better at it. How would people feel if Jones takes a terrible shot from him missing a block or not executing one and we lose him to injury? It is a serious matter.

Third year elite RB and this has absolutely nothing to do with the D he played against or that it was the first game. Total BS excuse by many. He did not help his QB or team on MNF. If he is elite and a leader start showing up...it's year 3.

In comment 14974351 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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I dont get why we should have kid gloves pointing out holes in his game. The expectation for him should be higher. Its like the more beloved a player is the more people are willing to dismiss things they kill other guys for.

Well said. Saquon’s taking some heat for game 1...let’s see how he responds.

He doesn’t need to be Brandon Jacobs, just improve enough to not be a liability

He seems to be a really nice guy who enjoys going out of his way to help in the community. But it's ironic if he intended his play to be compared to Payton's: while Payton was elusive, when contact was inevitable, he finished every run with a pop. He was a 5'10", 200 lb RB who would blow up every DB or LB who tackled him.

In comment 14974394 TC said:

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He seems to be a really nice guy who enjoys going out of his way to help in the community. But it's ironic if he intended his play to be compared to Payton's: while Payton was elusive, when contact was inevitable, he finished every run with a pop. He was a 5'10", 200 lb RB who would blow up every DB or LB who tackled him.

THIS

To run to the left.

until he was convinced the RB could pass protect. That was the sine qua non of the position.

He didn't even start until year 4 and averaged 8 fumbles a year until coughlin came in and forced him to change.
Barkley is a hard worker and is trying to improve,
Something Tiki didn't bother to do until Coughlin basically told him he wouldn't start unless he got his fumbling under control.
I wouldn't count Barkley out at this point.

In comment 14974441 larryflower37 said:

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He didn't even start until year 4 and averaged 8 fumbles a year until coughlin came in and forced him to change. Barkley is a hard worker and is trying to improve, Something Tiki didn't bother to do until Coughlin basically told him he wouldn't start unless he got his fumbling under control. I wouldn't count Barkley out at this point.

Tiki was a second round pick. Barkley was the number two pick in the draft. Perhaps higher expectations are in order?

Can't it be true that Saquon needs to improve his pass blocking and it's something to keep an eye on the rest of the year?

Can't it also be true that he's really good despite the pass blocking?

One does not negate the other.

& his twin brother, I guess, but Saquon should heed his critique. First you have to want to do it. Second, you need to recognize your markers. Third you need to apply the correct technique. The guy is 240 pounds. That's bigger than most linebackers these days. Stay up. Identify. Engage with extreme prejudice.

Know why? Because other teams will see this on film. The Bears aren't the Steelers on Defense but they certainly have a coaching staff and players to use multiple pressures on Sun.

As for the Parcells comment above, whenever Joe Morris cut blocked a blitzer, Bill sat him down. Different era, I know. But it's time that Barkley starts hearing some criticism.

I watched the Giants post-game delayed coverage on MSG after the game. All Sweet Young Thing wanted to do was talk about Barkley's hurdle. O'Hara, who should know better, didn't.

is to probablyhurdle over him.
He needs to start hitting some fools.

In comment 14974171 mittenedman said:

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I realize it's a big no no to criticize Barkley here, but he has some of that "Looks like Tarzan" stuff going on. He is built like Eddie George but he has no interest in the physical part of the game. That is a big problem. You can teach a guy like Ahmad Bradshaw to block. But it's hard to teach someone who shies away from contact.

If you put Bradshaws brain on Saquons body he would be the RB everyone thought we were getting. But you cannot. He is NOT an every down RB. Can't block and will NEVER get the ball on 4th and 1. His stats are empty and meaningless. He does not help us win.

In comment 14974216 Big Blue '56 said:

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In comment 14974206 mittenedman said: Quote: Jacobs and Bradshaw were constantly hurt. Barkley is not getting the injury excuse. It's the NFL. You gotta get it done, or it's Not For Long. Enough with the excuse making for this guy. I even see above it isn't fair to expect him to play well against good teams. C'mon now. We get it by now. You wanted Chubb, Nelson or QB at #2, in ‘18.

Nope. We wanted Chubb or Nelson PLUS the other premium picks we could have gotten for the second pick. The Barkley pick was a massive failure.

In comment 14974477 averagejoe said:

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In comment 14974171 mittenedman said: Quote: I realize it's a big no no to criticize Barkley here, but he has some of that "Looks like Tarzan" stuff going on. He is built like Eddie George but he has no interest in the physical part of the game. That is a big problem. You can teach a guy like Ahmad Bradshaw to block. But it's hard to teach someone who shies away from contact. If you put Bradshaws brain on Saquons body he would be the RB everyone thought we were getting. But you cannot. He is NOT an every down RB. Can't block and will NEVER get the ball on 4th and 1. His stats are empty and meaningless. He does not help us win.

For a moment, I thought you were talking about TERRY Bradshaw! Mean, and more than a little bit crazy. I still remember a play where a DB had a hold of his left leg in the backfield trying to drag him down while he's looking for a receiver, and with his left hand Bradshaw is PUNCHING the would-be tackler in the top of his HELMET!

Saquon wouldn't be harmed by a touch of junk yard dog.

He may end up having a Gifford-type career where he begins as a RB but extends his career by playing receiver.

that can probably be corrected.

For what it's worth I agree 100% with your feelings about Tiki. Doesn't mean he isn't correct or qualified to make that critique.

I'm not objective. I hated the pick the minute it was made. I hate it more now.

RBs are a dime a dozen and should be cheap. The same thing with run stuffing DLs. Gettleman pays these positions in money and in picks like they're WRs or Edge rushers.

You look at the two teams on the field Monday Night and the Steelers are everything the Giants are not. The Steelers philosophy is exact opposite of the Giants. Which bus would you rather be on?

In comment 14974370 Jim in Tampa said:

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Gives a negative critique of a player on YOUR team, who is playing the same position as that former NFL star... And instead of acknowledging that this former player may have a good point you either attack him or make excuses for YOUR player not playing well... Then say hi to Marge, Bart and Lisa for me, because you are a Homer.

This. Others have said it before, but he struggles to get tough yards between the tackles (and no I'm not referring to getting hit 5 yards in the backfield, no one expects a difference maker in that situation), and has a glaring weakness in pass protection. He looks more like Reggie Bush than Marshall Faulk at this point. Both very talented players, both very different players. Hope the remainder of the season sees the issues play out well for Barkley.

In comment 14974370 Jim in Tampa said:

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Gives a negative critique of a player on YOUR team, who is playing the same position as that former NFL star... And instead of acknowledging that this former player may have a good point you either attack him or make excuses for YOUR player not playing well... Then say hi to Marge, Bart and Lisa for me, because you are a Homer.

This. Others have said it before, but he struggles to get tough yards between the tackles (and no I'm not referring to getting hit 5 yards in the backfield, no one expects a difference maker in that situation), and has a glaring weakness in pass protection. He looks more like Reggie Bush than Marshall Faulk at this point. Both very talented players, both very different players. Hope the remainder of the season sees the issues play out well for Barkley.

In comment 14974581 arniefez said:

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For what it's worth I agree 100% with your feelings about Tiki. Doesn't mean he isn't correct or qualified to make that critique. I'm not objective. I hated the pick the minute it was made. I hate it more now. RBs are a dime a dozen and should be cheap. The same thing with run stuffing DLs. Gettleman pays these positions in money and in picks like they're WRs or Edge rushers. You look at the two teams on the field Monday Night and the Steelers are everything the Giants are not. The Steelers philosophy is exact opposite of the Giants. Which bus would you rather be on?

They let Bell walk rather than pay him and did not miss a beat. Giants will back up the Brinks truck to give Barkley a second contract and will continue to lose.

can anyone sit here and say the Barkley pick was a massive failure?

If he has just a decent season this year, he'll likely have the most yards from scrimmage since coming into the league

the Steelers let Bell and Brown walk and won what, exactly?

In comment 14974620 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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the Steelers let Bell and Brown walk and won what, exactly?

I get what you're saying here but they did lose their QB last year. If not for that they were a sure P.O. team

?

In comment 14974285 UConn4523 said:

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Zeke is, but that's his build/style. He doesn't have that extra gear that Barkley has so its a give/take. You can't have everything. The areas Barkley is weaker at can be taught. I'd like to also think that getting some running room will will take the focus off the pass rush (a basic football 101 level concept) and thus translate to him being able to definitively pick up his blocking assignments.

Alvin Kamala - 5’10 215lbs

Christian McCaffrey - 5’11 205lbs

Ezekiel Elliot - 6ft 225lbs

Saquon Barkley - 6ft 233lbs

Saquon needs to lower a fucking shoulder and stop all this dancing.

In comment 14974434 PatersonPlank said:

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Well, to date, he hasn't been, so....

is like marrying Ms. Universe then complaining about her cooking.

In comment 14974173 GiantNatty said:

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been saying since he came back from his injury last year that something's just not right with that guy. point blank, he's playing below average football (and i'm talking about when the opportunities are there; clearly guys hitting him in the backfield is not his fault).

I wonder about that myself. It just doesn't seem like he's as explosive as he was his rookie year.

In comment 14974617 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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can anyone sit here and say the Barkley pick was a massive failure? If he has just a decent season this year, he'll likely have the most yards from scrimmage since coming into the league

You're right. I think he was great pick. He needs to improve his pass blocking, it hasn't been good. It isn't a reason to shit on all he has been but his pass protection does deserve criticism.

In comment 14974202 mittenedman said:

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Please stop. Their problems were strictly technique and recognition but they would've gladly run thru a brick wall if you pointed out which one. Barkley's problem is different IMO. He shies away from contact. That is not an easy problem to fix.

Does he really though? Are there examples of him simply evading an approaching blitzer in his range?

Maybe he simply doesn't recognize it and react/position accordingly. It's not far-fetched -- we're talking quarter seconds here.

Should we "emulate" a team that hasn't been to a Super Bowl since, oh, before we won our last one, or claim a guy is a "failure" after he's gained nearly 3500+ yards from scrimmage in his first 2 seasons, because he's not "tough" (he looked plenty tough coming back early from injury last year).

That said, Tiki makes reasonable points. If it somehow leads to Barkley taking it up a notch like Eli did in 2007 after getting called out, and Tiki retroactively taking credit for it (again), I can live with that.

In comment 14974307 arniefez said:

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is Bakley trying to block Jamal Adams. That is one of the most embarrassing plays in Giants history.

I remember that, and it looked really bad. I'm hardly knowledgeable in blocking technique (neither is Saquon! Rim shot), but his arm got caught up a bit on one of his linemen and neither of his hands even made contact with Adams. All Adams had to do was just drive right into his chest.

In comment 14974620 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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the Steelers let Bell and Brown walk and won what, exactly?

Two Giants' seasons worth of wins despite losing their starting QB!

In comment 14974826 santacruzom said:

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In comment 14974620 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: the Steelers let Bell and Brown walk and won what, exactly? Two Giants' seasons worth of wins despite losing their starting QB!

Fantastic. I can't wait to see your elation when we get that many wins and miss the playoffs.