When Tomlin says they overcommitted to stopping Barkley, he wasn't lying. But there are some takeaways from this that hopefully the Giants will learn from and use.
One thing I noticed is several tight formations close to the ball. If you're going to try to get Barkley in space, you probably want to spread the defense out a bit more. Even if you sustain all your blocks and move people, having that many defenders in the box is more traffic for Barkley to deal with, unless he can get outside. So here's some examples:
https://youtu.be/j8XQ0q1ksVM?t=87
Here you have Barkley running to the right with an H-back in the backfield (Kaden Smith), and you're going to have Hernandez pulling. You have 9 guys in the box by the Steelers vs 8 blockers for the Giants. So you're going to have at least one guy running free, and that's the backside end, which is fine if he isn't immediately firing off at your RB, which here Bud Dupree is. This is a complete run blitz. If Dupree doesn't get there, there isn't much chance of this play working anyway, because Kaden Smith is missing his block, and for some reason you ended up with Evan Engram trying to block Cam Heyward, who is playing 5-tech here. That is never going to work. This play was going to be DOA. Too many Steelers in the box here.
https://youtu.be/j8XQ0q1ksVM?t=326
Here you have a run to the left with Zeitler pulling. We have 2 receivers on the right side of the formation, and again you're going to have 2 TEs on the left side of the formation, here Engram and Smith. Engram doesn't do much accept for get in the way, and Smith gets pushed back but at least keeps on his block. The left side of the line with Thomas and Hernandez does a good job here moving people, but Zeitler can't sustain his block on Alualu #94, and he gets in there quickly to stop this play before it starts. But again, it's an 8 man box vs 7 blockers, and you have guys in the backfield immediately because of Smith getting pushed back and free rushers, there's too much traffic for Barkley to navigate in the backfield to even get back to the line of scrimmage. With an 8 man box, this needs to be play action and take advantage of the one on ones. The Steelers did not respect Giants' receivers to hurt them, this is another example.
https://youtu.be/j8XQ0q1ksVM?t=416
Here is more of the same. Nine Steelers in the box here and eight Giants on the line of scrimmage, with THREE TEs lined up on the right side. Here Watt is going to blitz the A gap and Zeitler just stalemates him. Hernandez blocks two guys, getting a good push on Alualu and passes him to Gates who is combo blocking, but really doesn't do much. Hernandez passes him to Gates and takes on the free blitzer filling the backside lane, #34 Terrell Edmunds, who Hernandez pushes out of the way. But Dupree is able to get around Andrew Thomas, but the real problem is #91 Stephon Tuitt defeating Cam Fleming immediately and blowing this play up. But again, Engram isn't blocking anyone really, so don't even put him on the line and give him these run block responsibilities unless it's a blocker assignment outside or in the slot against a corner or safety, which he's still not doing much.
So the Steelers did load up the box to stop Saquon, but the blocking has to be better, and Jones has to get out of some of these plays and just hurt them over the top like he did on the long TD to Slayton against 8 in the box, or here when they put 9 in the box, went play action, leaked Toilolo out and hit for a nice play:
https://youtu.be/j8XQ0q1ksVM?t=430
So the takeaways from this game should be that Garrett first needs to spread things out a little more. You can't have all those defenders in the box if you want to get Saquon involved, and you have to hurt them when they over commit. And you have to stop misusing Engram. I think Toilolo needs to play more in those two tight end sets, and use Engram as a WR or not at all.
And Jones needs to have the freedom and recognition to audible out of these run plays vs a loaded box as well.
and use the pass to set up the run.
and use the pass to set up the run.
I think they tried. Didn't they start passing on first down exclusively?
Giants as a team have to coach it up to pick up the blitz, and not lose track of crossing or delay routes underneath their zones.
What value does he add?
Recipe for disaster.
Dan Jones deserves more credit from BBI.
If physical football from our offense is the goal, we need the coaching staff to be active and creative.
And right now, there's one available in Allen Robinson. I don't think Robinson is the end-all, be-all, and initially I wasn't in favor of him being traded for, but if he's available and we can do a simple swap of these players, I think it works better for the Giants and allows them to get more respect on the outside, or a player that can hurt them if defenses don't.
A player like Robinson I think would help both Jones and hopefully open up a little more for Saquon.
Judge highlighted that the heavy tight formation was indicative of run, and the play fake sucked up the LBs which allowed Engram to run behind them. Had the safety not bit on the Engram across to allow the TD to Slayton, Engram would have been wide open.
So running out of the tight formations for losses might have been on purpose to set-up this play action pass that resulted in a TD.
Recipe for disaster.
Dan Jones deserves more credit from BBI.
If physical football from our offense is the goal, we need the coaching staff to be active and creative.
So theoretically if the Bears study footage from the Giants game, would they set Khalil Mack, their best pass rusher, as the LDE (left defensive end)/SAM linebacker spot against Cam Fleming?
Judge highlighted that the heavy tight formation was indicative of run, and the play fake sucked up the LBs which allowed Engram to run behind them. Had the safety not bit on the Engram across to allow the TD to Slayton, Engram would have been wide open.
So running out of the tight formations for losses might have been on purpose to set-up this play action pass that resulted in a TD.
You can go 12 personnel and get the same effect. But at any rate, even with 13 personnel, Engram has to play better, and you have to get Saquon in positions where they do damage. Yes, we hit over the top to Slayton, but that one play doesn't negate a slew of negative plays...and further, the negative plays mostly came after that long TD, so it wasn't set up by those.
I understand your point, which is true...you can set up a passing play on a run play that is unlikely to work, but based on what Pittsburgh was doing in this game, they needed to do the opposite...have the pass set up the run game...you have to hurt them more than one time when they over commit to the run...and when they back off, then you can get Saquon back involved on the ground. I do think they'd be better off just spreading them out and making Pittsburgh defend more of the field.
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One of the plays we scored a touchdown on was the play fake on the tight formation.
Judge highlighted that the heavy tight formation was indicative of run, and the play fake sucked up the LBs which allowed Engram to run behind them. Had the safety not bit on the Engram across to allow the TD to Slayton, Engram would have been wide open.
So running out of the tight formations for losses might have been on purpose to set-up this play action pass that resulted in a TD.
You can go 12 personnel and get the same effect. But at any rate, even with 13 personnel, Engram has to play better, and you have to get Saquon in positions where they do damage. Yes, we hit over the top to Slayton, but that one play doesn't negate a slew of negative plays...and further, the negative plays mostly came after that long TD, so it wasn't set up by those.
I understand your point, which is true...you can set up a passing play on a run play that is unlikely to work, but based on what Pittsburgh was doing in this game, they needed to do the opposite...have the pass set up the run game...you have to hurt them more than one time when they over commit to the run...and when they back off, then you can get Saquon back involved on the ground. I do think they'd be better off just spreading them out and making Pittsburgh defend more of the field.
13 personnel with Engram = 12 personnel
:=)
You can have three-receiver sets, maybe have the offense push the defense to whichever side the outside linebackers are on (if they're running a 46 defense), then run the running back to the opposite side.
From everything I viewed, he had a solid game, as Sy also said. And given that often his task was blocking Cam Heyward, one of the best DTs in the NFL, he won the great majority of those battles, and performed very well against Alualu when matched up against him as well.
Sy had him with one pressure allowed, I think I saw two, but neither hurt them as both resulted in first down completions.
If you key on him, he's pretty fun to watch, because his nasty is often on display, he loves to hit guys and looks for every opportunity to put a guy on his seat.
Quote:
One of the plays we scored a touchdown on was the play fake on the tight formation.
Judge highlighted that the heavy tight formation was indicative of run, and the play fake sucked up the LBs which allowed Engram to run behind them. Had the safety not bit on the Engram across to allow the TD to Slayton, Engram would have been wide open.
So running out of the tight formations for losses might have been on purpose to set-up this play action pass that resulted in a TD.
You can go 12 personnel and get the same effect. But at any rate, even with 13 personnel, Engram has to play better, and you have to get Saquon in positions where they do damage. Yes, we hit over the top to Slayton, but that one play doesn't negate a slew of negative plays...and further, the negative plays mostly came after that long TD, so it wasn't set up by those.
I understand your point, which is true...you can set up a passing play on a run play that is unlikely to work, but based on what Pittsburgh was doing in this game, they needed to do the opposite...have the pass set up the run game...you have to hurt them more than one time when they over commit to the run...and when they back off, then you can get Saquon back involved on the ground. I do think they'd be better off just spreading them out and making Pittsburgh defend more of the field.
It will be interesting to see how the formations change throughout the year, as you mentioned spreading it out would negate some of that pass rush.
Without knowing the gameplan they implemented I am going to make two guesses:
1. Without live action, they misjudged how well the line was playing together. Even a marginal running game out of 13 personnel would have produced much greater success on play action. Maybe they thought the match-ups from passing out of 13 was better than 11 personnel?
2. I wonder if the offensive strategy is going to take a page out of the rams book, running multiple different types of plays out of the same personnel package. When it works, it's quite effective, when it doesn't you better have a plan B.
Giants as a team have to coach it up to pick up the blitz, and not lose track of crossing or delay routes underneath their zones.
And right now, there's one available in Allen Robinson. I don't think Robinson is the end-all, be-all, and initially I wasn't in favor of him being traded for, but if he's available and we can do a simple swap of these players, I think it works better for the Giants and allows them to get more respect on the outside, or a player that can hurt them if defenses don't.
A player like Robinson I think would help both Jones and hopefully open up a little more for Saquon.
Better do it this week then. The Bears aren't likely to want anything to do with Engram after they have the direct experience of playing against him.
And right now, there's one available in Allen Robinson. I don't think Robinson is the end-all, be-all, and initially I wasn't in favor of him being traded for, but if he's available and we can do a simple swap of these players, I think it works better for the Giants and allows them to get more respect on the outside, or a player that can hurt them if defenses don't.
A player like Robinson I think would help both Jones and hopefully open up a little more for Saquon.
I'd move Engram for a bag of donuts. He's a "weapon" who can't catch or get open.
and use the pass to set up the run.
Was shocked to see Slayton’s route chart with only 1 deep ball thrown to him (the TD). If he’s running shallows and crosses who is stretching the field?
Right now, the blueprint is to run blitz the hell out of Barkley. If it happens to be a pass, the blitz still forces him into pass pro, which serves a double-benefit to the D:
*forces him to do something he isn't good at (pass pro)
*takes him away as a receiver (takes the ball out of their best player's hands)
This strategy works even better because the Giants have a poor OLine and a young inexperienced QB with pre-snap reads.
It will be up to Jones, Judge, Garrett & the Giants to figure a way out of that chokehold. It's the obvious strategy and they'll see it week after week.