EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. – Six players who spent all or a significant portion of their careers with the Giants are among the 130 modern-era nominees for the Pro Football Hall of Fame’s Class of 2021, which was announced today.
The list includes defensive end Justin Tuck, who was cited in his first year of eligibility, plus running back Tiki Barber, guard Chris Snee, tight end Jeremy Shockey and punters Sean Landeta and Jeff Feagles.
Also nominated were three players who suited up for the Giants late in long careers: running back Herschel Walker (1995), tackle Lomas Brown (2000-01) and running back/return specialist Brian Mitchell (2003).
I think Feagles has the best chance. Long career/fantastic directional punter.
Tiki certainly has good numbers, it'll depend on how much the voters hold his early exit (and lack of a Super Bowl ring) against him.
I would say no to Tiki but I agree. If you can get Davis in, why not?
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especially in light of guys like Bettis, Davis, etc. getting in.
I would say no to Tiki but I agree. If you can get Davis in, why not?
As mentioned, Davis won a ring...two in fact. He was also named NFL MVP and two time winner of Offensive Player of the Year. Rushed for 2,008 yards in 1998, only third player to eclipse that 2,000 yard mark.
Tiki lacks the ring, the MVP, the OPOY and 2,000 yard season. No to Tiki, in my opinion.
2006 regular season. NYG averaged 138 yds/game 4.5/att Tiki's last year
2007 regular season. NYG averaged 135 yds/game 4.6/att and won the Super Bowl
Passing yards 2006 199/game
Passing yards 2007 195/game
Virtually no falloff when he left.
I'd love to see Feags get in.
Jeff Feagles- last of the Super Tecmo Bowl era players to retire - ( New Window )
Maybe, but I think Dave Jennings should be in before another punter gets in.
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is deserving, imo
Maybe, but I think Dave Jennings should be in before another punter gets in.
He effectively carried us for much of the ‘70s
Maybe Lomas Brown and Brian Mitchell. Maybe Tiki in the year 2045 or so. Nobody else here deserves it. Landetta if not for the whiff in Chicago.
We get crap like this when guys like Mark Bavaro, Bart Oates, Carl Banks, Erik Howard, Jim Burt, Leonard Marshall, Mark Collins, Maurice Carthon, and others are never even mentioned. Even Jessie Armstead is more deserving than most on this list.
Tuck is a complete joke, IMHO.
I really hope Jimmy Patton is recognized by the veterans comittee one day soon. He is the most ergregious omission from the Giants cannon. He should have been in a long, long time ago.
Very impressive stuff.
One of my favorite Giants.
A true tight end and football player.
2006 regular season. NYG averaged 138 yds/game 4.5/att Tiki's last year
2007 regular season. NYG averaged 135 yds/game 4.6/att and won the Super Bowl
Passing yards 2006 199/game
Passing yards 2007 195/game
Virtually no falloff when he left.
The 2007 Giants turning the Ewing Theory into the Tiki Theory will forever prevent Tiki from seeing the Hall of Fame.
I've never understood how Banks isn't a Hall of Famer.
And Jeff Feagles had a very long career, but what exactly has he done to derserve the HOF?
And Jeff Feagles had a very long career, but what exactly has he done to derserve the HOF?
Tiki lacks the ring, the MVP, the OPOY and 2,000 yard season. No to Tiki, in my opinion.
I mean, you're just setting the bar around Terrell Davis' accomplishments. I don't think his career was long enough to justify getting in.
You also conveniently leave out Barber's two 2000 yards from scrimmage seasons (2390 in 2005 which is about 150 more than Davis' ever had in a season), his higher career YPC, and yardage totals (in spite of retiring early). Not to mention Denver's one cut zone running system didn't miss a beat after Davis went down: Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Reuben Droughns (Yea, that guy), Clinton Portis, etc.
In any event, I don't think either of them are deserving. If it's about rings, there's a long list of HoF running backs that never won a wing that Davis and Bettis can't sniff: Sanders, Sayers, Tomlinson, Campbell, Simpson, Dickerson, etc. The Hall isn't just about rings, especially for non-quarterbacks. Nor should it be.
The rest shouldn't get a sniff
The rest shouldn't get a sniff
Tuck has some right's to be thought of but his career wasn't long enough at the top level, sadly
I’d love to make a case for Tuck and Snee, but I’d be guilty of homerism.
Banks and Bavaro have a better case, but probably still fall short. Injuries robbed them of playing at a hall of fame level for long enough. They both have quality playoff resumes and rings to help their cause though
I'm not going to hold it against him that he didn't want to put his body through the downswing of his career.
So I can't look at someone who had a very solid career, walked away at his peak, and think "he's a few declining years of stat accumulation away from being a Hall of Famer."
Much of this is taken from the other thread, but here are Tiki's accomplishments, and some realistic projections/extrapolations
- Tiki is the 3rd back in NFL history to have 10,000 rushing yards nad 5,000 receiving yards (Marshall Faulk and Marcus Allen).
-Tiki became the third RB in history to have three 200-yard rushing games in a single season (OJ, Earl Campbell)
- Tiki led his team in rushing for 80 straight games, an NFL record.
Tiki is 22nd all-time in rushing yards with 4.7 yards per carry. The only running backs with more rushing yards and a better yard/carry rate are Jim Brown (5.2) and Barry Sanders (5.0). OJ Simpson is tied at 4.7.
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Projection time
Tiki is currently 22nd all-time in rushing yards with 10,449 yards.
3,653 more rushing yards would put him ahead of Curtis Martin and 4th all-time behind Smith, Payton, and Sanders. Barber rushed for 3522 in his two previous seasons combined. Even if he declined, if he suited up for three more seasons, he would still gain plenty of yards. Tiki's 2006 rushing yards total was 89% of his 2007 rushing yards total. Let's assume he "declines" at a similar rate every year (2006 was better than 2004, so it's not necessarily a decline, but let's try it anyway).
If he declined at that same rate, here are his rushing numbers
2006 Rushing yards: 1662
2007* Rushing yards: 1485
2008* Rushing yards: 1327
2009* Rushing yards: 1185
That total adds to 3,997 more yards to his career which would have put him in fourth place all-time rushing. Even if the drop-off is more significant (and it very well might be), it shows that compiling numbers in declining years would elevate him to near the very top of the class in all-time rushing yards. 3214 puts him 5th ahead of Bettis who played until the wheels fell off the bus and he wore down the rims. Granted, his elite yards/carry average would drop, but his overall numbers would be staggering.
And that is just extrapolating rushing yards. Tiki's biggest asset was that he was also a threat to catch out of the backfield and he amassed a fantastic yards from scrimmage total.
Tiki is currently 12th all-time in yards from scrimmage with 15,632 yards and he walked away after three insane seasons and while in his prime. In final three seasons, going backwards, here are his yards from scrimmage: 2127, 2390, 2096.
Marshall Faulk is fourth all-time in yards from scrimmage with 3522 more than Tiki Barber. Is it that crazy to think that a healthy Tiki, even in decline could average 1761 yards from scrimmage over two more seasons? Even if he played in a very declining fashion for three yards, is it crazy to think that he could get
2007* 1600 yards 100 yds/game
2008* 1200 yards 75 yds/game
2009* 800 yards 50 yds/game
That almost seems too easy for Tiki Barber.
If he did that, he would be behind only Jerry Rice, Emmitt Smith, and Walter Payton in all-time yards from scrimmage. That is some absolutely elite territory. And Tiki would only have to stay healthy. He wouldn't even need more "prime" years.
Obviously, it's a what-if game, but like I said, I won't fault a player from wanting to walk away on top.
Tuck ok fine. He played at a very high level, an elite level for probably 4 years or so. Maybe a little more, but I can live with him out, even though he makes up a lot of ground with his postseason play, that's something the voters seem to conveniently miss, but only when it comes to NYG players. Denver? SF? Bears? sign them up! NYG? Nope sorry...not enough.
MArshall did in fact play at a high enough level for enough time, and he too killed it in the postseason. name me 1-2 better 3-4 DEs from 1983-1992. Ill wait. Alas. Not a whiff.
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In comment 14974816 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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especially in light of guys like Bettis, Davis, etc. getting in.
I would say no to Tiki but I agree. If you can get Davis in, why not?
As mentioned, Davis won a ring...two in fact. He was also named NFL MVP and two time winner of Offensive Player of the Year. Rushed for 2,008 yards in 1998, only third player to eclipse that 2,000 yard mark.
Tiki lacks the ring, the MVP, the OPOY and 2,000 yard season. No to Tiki, in my opinion.
That's all very true, and he accomplished those things fair and square.
But Davis played for Mike Shanahan, who churns out big rushing campaigns from all sorts of low round RBs, Davis himself a 6th rounder.
So it's a perfect storm of maybe being the all time best RB for that system. His career wasn't remarkable after that.
So adjusted for systems you have to give Barber more credit.
Tuck ok fine. He played at a very high level, an elite level for probably 4 years or so. Maybe a little more, but I can live with him out, even though he makes up a lot of ground with his postseason play, that's something the voters seem to conveniently miss, but only when it comes to NYG players. Denver? SF? Bears? sign them up! NYG? Nope sorry...not enough.
MArshall did in fact play at a high enough level for enough time, and he too killed it in the postseason. name me 1-2 better 3-4 DEs from 1983-1992. Ill wait. Alas. Not a whiff.
Giants suffer from having never been a dynasty level team, maybe. This is where declaring LT the greatest human being to play football comes to hurt the supporting cast....
And let's say 1981+......Niners HoF players are all easy picks. Montana, Young, Rice, Lott, TO, Haley, Walsh, Debartolo.
Guys like Carl Banks? Leonard Marshall? Very good players, probably deserving but not sure they are sure shot guys. Are they as good as Patrick Willis who missed year one of eligiblity?
Bill Romanowski? HoF player or not? I don't know but he's not in and he was a Niner during the last Niner SBs.
Is Roger Craig in the HoF? First 1000/1000 RB....
The difference between SF and NYG really comes down to two QBs and two WRs that are #1 and #2 in TDs receptions all time.
Very impressive stuff.
Those that are certain to be nominated and how many spots will be available after that. It's a numbers game.