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Six New York Giants on Hall of Fame Ballot

Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/16/2020 5:53 pm
EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. – Six players who spent all or a significant portion of their careers with the Giants are among the 130 modern-era nominees for the Pro Football Hall of Fame’s Class of 2021, which was announced today.

The list includes defensive end Justin Tuck, who was cited in his first year of eligibility, plus running back Tiki Barber, guard Chris Snee, tight end Jeremy Shockey and punters Sean Landeta and Jeff Feagles.

Also nominated were three players who suited up for the Giants late in long careers: running back Herschel Walker (1995), tackle Lomas Brown (2000-01) and running back/return specialist Brian Mitchell (2003).

I think an argument can be made for Tiki,  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/16/2020 5:54 pm : link
especially in light of guys like Bettis, Davis, etc. getting in.
Big difference  
Mark from Jersey : 9/16/2020 5:58 pm : link
between the guys you mention and Tiki are the rings.

I think Feagles has the best chance. Long career/fantastic directional punter.
Landeta deserves a shot  
DieHard : 9/16/2020 5:58 pm : link
Dunno how skittish the HoF voters are about punters these days, though (took forever for Ray Guy to get in).

Tiki certainly has good numbers, it'll depend on how much the voters hold his early exit (and lack of a Super Bowl ring) against him.
RE: I think an argument can be made for Tiki,  
widmerseyebrow : 9/16/2020 6:01 pm : link
In comment 14974816 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
especially in light of guys like Bettis, Davis, etc. getting in.


I would say no to Tiki but I agree. If you can get Davis in, why not?
I certainly wouldn't complain if Tiki got in  
BlackLight : 9/16/2020 6:09 pm : link
The biggest argument against his case is that he never won a ring, and the team won a Super Bowl the year after he retired.

.  
Banks : 9/16/2020 6:11 pm : link
These guys would be locks if they had 2 more productive seasons save for Feagles and Landetta. They should be HoF'ers if punters and kickers were respected.
RE: RE: I think an argument can be made for Tiki,  
johnnyb : 9/16/2020 6:14 pm : link
In comment 14974823 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
In comment 14974816 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


especially in light of guys like Bettis, Davis, etc. getting in.



I would say no to Tiki but I agree. If you can get Davis in, why not?


As mentioned, Davis won a ring...two in fact. He was also named NFL MVP and two time winner of Offensive Player of the Year. Rushed for 2,008 yards in 1998, only third player to eclipse that 2,000 yard mark.

Tiki lacks the ring, the MVP, the OPOY and 2,000 yard season. No to Tiki, in my opinion.
Feagles  
Big Blue '56 : 9/16/2020 6:16 pm : link
is deserving, imo
Maybe Tike gets in down the road  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/16/2020 6:27 pm : link
Something I think is interesting though.

2006 regular season. NYG averaged 138 yds/game 4.5/att Tiki's last year
2007 regular season. NYG averaged 135 yds/game 4.6/att and won the Super Bowl

Passing yards 2006 199/game
Passing yards 2007 195/game

Virtually no falloff when he left.
RE: Feagles  
FranknWeezer : 9/16/2020 6:33 pm : link
In comment 14974842 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
is deserving, imo


I'd love to see Feags get in.
Jeff Feagles- last of the Super Tecmo Bowl era players to retire - ( New Window )
RE: Feagles  
steve in ky : 9/16/2020 6:34 pm : link
In comment 14974842 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
is deserving, imo


Maybe, but I think Dave Jennings should be in before another punter gets in.
RE: RE: Feagles  
Big Blue '56 : 9/16/2020 6:39 pm : link
In comment 14974860 steve in ky said:
Quote:
In comment 14974842 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


is deserving, imo



Maybe, but I think Dave Jennings should be in before another punter gets in.


He effectively carried us for much of the ‘70s
More HOF Bullshit  
LeonBright45 : 9/16/2020 7:01 pm : link
NONE of these guys are a shoe in.

Maybe Lomas Brown and Brian Mitchell. Maybe Tiki in the year 2045 or so. Nobody else here deserves it. Landetta if not for the whiff in Chicago.

We get crap like this when guys like Mark Bavaro, Bart Oates, Carl Banks, Erik Howard, Jim Burt, Leonard Marshall, Mark Collins, Maurice Carthon, and others are never even mentioned. Even Jessie Armstead is more deserving than most on this list.

Tuck is a complete joke, IMHO.
I'd vote no to all of them  
PatersonPlank : 9/16/2020 7:09 pm : link
.
The names that stick out to me are the ST guys  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 9/16/2020 7:12 pm : link
Feagles and Mitchell. Both were elite at their roles for a long time.
Shockey  
Earl the goat : 9/16/2020 7:14 pm : link
Is a major joke
Feagles  
section125 : 9/16/2020 7:16 pm : link
would be my choice, although I loved Tiki. But he quit too soon. Two more years and he would have been a lock with the ring and 2500-3000 yards plus 100 more receptions..
Shockey gets  
MtDizzle : 9/16/2020 7:17 pm : link
my vote
Tiki has to get strong consideration  
gmenrule-va : 9/16/2020 7:18 pm : link
Even without the rings. Marshall Faulk, Marcus Allen and Tiki are the only members of the 10K+ rushing / 5K+ receiving club and stats are a key factor in consideration.
really makes you wonder  
Giantsfan79 : 9/16/2020 7:32 pm : link
knowing how things turned out, in hindsight, Tiki wishes he could have found a way to coexist with TC instead of walking away.
No love for  
Bleedin Blue : 9/16/2020 7:54 pm : link
Banks?? Is he no longer eligible for voting? Does he have to wait for the veteran committee?
Sean Landetta is the most deserving on that list.  
truebluelarry : 9/16/2020 7:59 pm : link
He did it the best for the longest period of time.

I really hope Jimmy Patton is recognized by the veterans comittee one day soon. He is the most ergregious omission from the Giants cannon. He should have been in a long, long time ago.
yeah, Jerome Bettis won a ring  
Greg from LI : 9/16/2020 8:00 pm : link
He won it as a backup to Willie Parker, ran for a whopping 43 yards on 14 carries, and his team was outplayed and won on the back of highly questionable refereeing. He was washed up and retired after the game.

Very impressive stuff.
Tiki  
Shady Lurker : 9/16/2020 8:04 pm : link
would get my vote. The rest of the more-recent Giants would get my vote for Hall of really great, but not quite HOF
I was saying earlier today about how great Bavaro was to a coworker  
Daniel in Kentucky : 9/16/2020 8:16 pm : link
It’s a shame he probably will never get in.
One of my favorite Giants.
A true tight end and football player.
Many of those guys  
Phil in LA : 9/16/2020 8:24 pm : link
played at a Hall of Fame level for a number of years, but injuries and other things might keep them out. Always thought Leonard Marshall would make it. He's better than some who are in. So's Tiki. If there's a reporter willing to make the case that Tiki's TD numbers are low becaause as the Giants only weapon they couldn't afford to have him get beat up at the goal line, there's still a chance.
I think Tiki should be in someday  
BUgiantfan : 9/16/2020 8:33 pm : link
But not before Shaun Alexander.
RE: Maybe Tike gets in down the road  
FStubbs : 9/16/2020 9:14 pm : link
In comment 14974855 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
Something I think is interesting though.

2006 regular season. NYG averaged 138 yds/game 4.5/att Tiki's last year
2007 regular season. NYG averaged 135 yds/game 4.6/att and won the Super Bowl

Passing yards 2006 199/game
Passing yards 2007 195/game

Virtually no falloff when he left.


The 2007 Giants turning the Ewing Theory into the Tiki Theory will forever prevent Tiki from seeing the Hall of Fame.
RE: No love for  
FStubbs : 9/16/2020 9:15 pm : link
In comment 14974939 Bleedin Blue said:
Quote:
Banks?? Is he no longer eligible for voting? Does he have to wait for the veteran committee?


I've never understood how Banks isn't a Hall of Famer.
obviously just a nomination list...  
BillKo : 9/16/2020 9:32 pm : link
...but I almost verped when I read Shockey's name.

And Jeff Feagles had a very long career, but what exactly has he done to derserve the HOF?
Banks, Marshall, Bavaro, Ottis Anderson  
djm : 9/16/2020 9:39 pm : link
And Bart Oates all deserve consideration.
RE: obviously just a nomination list...  
81_Great_Dane : 9/16/2020 11:09 pm : link
In comment 14975035 BillKo said:
Quote:
...but I almost verped when I read Shockey's name.

And Jeff Feagles had a very long career, but what exactly has he done to derserve the HOF?
Feagles was very good for a very very long time. That's one kind of Hall of Famers. Now, is that good enough for a punter? Doubt it.
RE: RE: RE: I think an argument can be made for Tiki,  
widmerseyebrow : 9/16/2020 11:26 pm : link
In comment 14974841 johnnyb said:
Quote:
As mentioned, Davis won a ring...two in fact. He was also named NFL MVP and two time winner of Offensive Player of the Year. Rushed for 2,008 yards in 1998, only third player to eclipse that 2,000 yard mark.

Tiki lacks the ring, the MVP, the OPOY and 2,000 yard season. No to Tiki, in my opinion.


I mean, you're just setting the bar around Terrell Davis' accomplishments. I don't think his career was long enough to justify getting in.

You also conveniently leave out Barber's two 2000 yards from scrimmage seasons (2390 in 2005 which is about 150 more than Davis' ever had in a season), his higher career YPC, and yardage totals (in spite of retiring early). Not to mention Denver's one cut zone running system didn't miss a beat after Davis went down: Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Reuben Droughns (Yea, that guy), Clinton Portis, etc.

In any event, I don't think either of them are deserving. If it's about rings, there's a long list of HoF running backs that never won a wing that Davis and Bettis can't sniff: Sanders, Sayers, Tomlinson, Campbell, Simpson, Dickerson, etc. The Hall isn't just about rings, especially for non-quarterbacks. Nor should it be.
Banks and Marshall should both be in  
uconngiant : 9/17/2020 12:37 am : link
Tiki deserves some love. I like Feagles a lot but he is not getting in. A very good punter for many years, but never stood out as the best in the NFL like Ray Guy.

The rest shouldn't get a sniff
RE: Banks and Marshall should both be in  
uconngiant : 9/17/2020 12:38 am : link
In comment 14975110 uconngiant said:
Quote:
Tiki deserves some love. I like Feagles a lot but he is not getting in. A very good punter for many years, but never stood out as the best in the NFL like Ray Guy.

The rest shouldn't get a sniff


Tuck has some right's to be thought of but his career wasn't long enough at the top level, sadly
discussing those names  
ATL_Giants : 9/17/2020 8:15 am : link
while Herschel Walker isn't in, seems ludicrous.

I think Tiki has a case and always will  
mfsd : 9/17/2020 8:48 am : link
he just kind of suffers from perception, IMO, that he wasn’t an elite back (by the voters, I mean) bc he didn’t fully become one until halfway through his career.

I’d love to make a case for Tuck and Snee, but I’d be guilty of homerism.

Banks and Bavaro have a better case, but probably still fall short. Injuries robbed them of playing at a hall of fame level for long enough. They both have quality playoff resumes and rings to help their cause though
Shaun Alexander?? Please  
Greg from LI : 9/17/2020 10:03 am : link
Tiki was superior to Alexander and it really isn't close. More yards, better YPC, much better receiver, and unlike Alexander Tiki didn't have the luxury of running behind two HoF linemen.
re Tiki  
PaulBlakeTSU : 9/17/2020 11:07 am : link
I post this every year when discussion of Tiki for HOF gets brought up and so I'll repost again. This is from 2011 and so Peterson and Gore have passed him, but the concept still remains. Tiki had elite-level yards production.

I'm not going to hold it against him that he didn't want to put his body through the downswing of his career.

Quote:
Tiki Barber is a Hall of Famer. If he had 1-3 years of less-than-average, declining production, he would have all the numbers in the world to get in. Football is a violent sport that had serious long-term health effects on its players. Just Google "Earl Campbell health" for a collection of articles describing how he needs a walker or wheelchair, and shuffles about due to the hits he took as a running back. I can never begrudge a player (especially a running back who only receives hits) from wanting to walk away from the game when health is a potential factor. Granted, there were other factors in Tiki's retirement (his plan to have a great broadcasting career), but the physical toll was one of the factors involved.

So I can't look at someone who had a very solid career, walked away at his peak, and think "he's a few declining years of stat accumulation away from being a Hall of Famer."

Much of this is taken from the other thread, but here are Tiki's accomplishments, and some realistic projections/extrapolations


- Tiki is the 3rd back in NFL history to have 10,000 rushing yards nad 5,000 receiving yards (Marshall Faulk and Marcus Allen).

-Tiki became the third RB in history to have three 200-yard rushing games in a single season (OJ, Earl Campbell)

- Tiki led his team in rushing for 80 straight games, an NFL record.

Tiki is 22nd all-time in rushing yards with 4.7 yards per carry. The only running backs with more rushing yards and a better yard/carry rate are Jim Brown (5.2) and Barry Sanders (5.0). OJ Simpson is tied at 4.7.
---------------
Projection time

Tiki is currently 22nd all-time in rushing yards with 10,449 yards.

3,653 more rushing yards would put him ahead of Curtis Martin and 4th all-time behind Smith, Payton, and Sanders. Barber rushed for 3522 in his two previous seasons combined. Even if he declined, if he suited up for three more seasons, he would still gain plenty of yards. Tiki's 2006 rushing yards total was 89% of his 2007 rushing yards total. Let's assume he "declines" at a similar rate every year (2006 was better than 2004, so it's not necessarily a decline, but let's try it anyway).

If he declined at that same rate, here are his rushing numbers


2006 Rushing yards: 1662
2007* Rushing yards: 1485
2008* Rushing yards: 1327
2009* Rushing yards: 1185

That total adds to 3,997 more yards to his career which would have put him in fourth place all-time rushing. Even if the drop-off is more significant (and it very well might be), it shows that compiling numbers in declining years would elevate him to near the very top of the class in all-time rushing yards. 3214 puts him 5th ahead of Bettis who played until the wheels fell off the bus and he wore down the rims. Granted, his elite yards/carry average would drop, but his overall numbers would be staggering.

And that is just extrapolating rushing yards. Tiki's biggest asset was that he was also a threat to catch out of the backfield and he amassed a fantastic yards from scrimmage total.

Tiki is currently 12th all-time in yards from scrimmage with 15,632 yards and he walked away after three insane seasons and while in his prime. In final three seasons, going backwards, here are his yards from scrimmage: 2127, 2390, 2096.

Marshall Faulk is fourth all-time in yards from scrimmage with 3522 more than Tiki Barber. Is it that crazy to think that a healthy Tiki, even in decline could average 1761 yards from scrimmage over two more seasons? Even if he played in a very declining fashion for three yards, is it crazy to think that he could get

2007* 1600 yards 100 yds/game
2008* 1200 yards 75 yds/game
2009* 800 yards 50 yds/game

That almost seems too easy for Tiki Barber.
If he did that, he would be behind only Jerry Rice, Emmitt Smith, and Walter Payton in all-time yards from scrimmage. That is some absolutely elite territory. And Tiki would only have to stay healthy. He wouldn't even need more "prime" years.

Obviously, it's a what-if game, but like I said, I won't fault a player from wanting to walk away on top.
Based on RBs they've accepted, Tiki should easily be in  
adamg : 9/17/2020 11:43 am : link
.
the voters are inconsitent  
djm : 9/17/2020 5:47 pm : link
when they really should be bedrock consistent with this sort of shit. You can't say Tuck didn't play at a high enough level while guys like Terrel Davis are in. More notably, same thing with Bavaro who was a force unseen before or since, save for 1-2 other TEs of his stature.

Tuck ok fine. He played at a very high level, an elite level for probably 4 years or so. Maybe a little more, but I can live with him out, even though he makes up a lot of ground with his postseason play, that's something the voters seem to conveniently miss, but only when it comes to NYG players. Denver? SF? Bears? sign them up! NYG? Nope sorry...not enough.

MArshall did in fact play at a high enough level for enough time, and he too killed it in the postseason. name me 1-2 better 3-4 DEs from 1983-1992. Ill wait. Alas. Not a whiff.
RE: RE: RE: I think an argument can be made for Tiki,  
NINEster : 9/17/2020 6:14 pm : link
In comment 14974841 johnnyb said:
Quote:
In comment 14974823 widmerseyebrow said:


Quote:


In comment 14974816 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


especially in light of guys like Bettis, Davis, etc. getting in.



I would say no to Tiki but I agree. If you can get Davis in, why not?



As mentioned, Davis won a ring...two in fact. He was also named NFL MVP and two time winner of Offensive Player of the Year. Rushed for 2,008 yards in 1998, only third player to eclipse that 2,000 yard mark.

Tiki lacks the ring, the MVP, the OPOY and 2,000 yard season. No to Tiki, in my opinion.


That's all very true, and he accomplished those things fair and square.

But Davis played for Mike Shanahan, who churns out big rushing campaigns from all sorts of low round RBs, Davis himself a 6th rounder.

So it's a perfect storm of maybe being the all time best RB for that system. His career wasn't remarkable after that.

So adjusted for systems you have to give Barber more credit.

RE: the voters are inconsitent  
NINEster : 9/17/2020 6:25 pm : link
In comment 14975582 djm said:
Quote:


Tuck ok fine. He played at a very high level, an elite level for probably 4 years or so. Maybe a little more, but I can live with him out, even though he makes up a lot of ground with his postseason play, that's something the voters seem to conveniently miss, but only when it comes to NYG players. Denver? SF? Bears? sign them up! NYG? Nope sorry...not enough.

MArshall did in fact play at a high enough level for enough time, and he too killed it in the postseason. name me 1-2 better 3-4 DEs from 1983-1992. Ill wait. Alas. Not a whiff.


Giants suffer from having never been a dynasty level team, maybe. This is where declaring LT the greatest human being to play football comes to hurt the supporting cast....

And let's say 1981+......Niners HoF players are all easy picks. Montana, Young, Rice, Lott, TO, Haley, Walsh, Debartolo.

Guys like Carl Banks? Leonard Marshall? Very good players, probably deserving but not sure they are sure shot guys. Are they as good as Patrick Willis who missed year one of eligiblity?

Bill Romanowski? HoF player or not? I don't know but he's not in and he was a Niner during the last Niner SBs.

Is Roger Craig in the HoF? First 1000/1000 RB....

The difference between SF and NYG really comes down to two QBs and two WRs that are #1 and #2 in TDs receptions all time.
RE: .  
Brick72 : 9/17/2020 11:19 pm : link
In comment 14974835 Banks said:
Quote:
These guys would be locks if they had 2 more productive seasons save for Feagles and Landetta. They should be HoF'ers if punters and kickers were respected.
Agree 100%. Feagles and Landetta were special. Very few punters could put the ball where they wanted like Feagles. Landatta was almost automatic.
RE: yeah, Jerome Bettis won a ring  
Brick72 : 9/17/2020 11:25 pm : link
In comment 14974942 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
He won it as a backup to Willie Parker, ran for a whopping 43 yards on 14 carries, and his team was outplayed and won on the back of highly questionable refereeing. He was washed up and retired after the game.

Very impressive stuff.
There is no stretch of the imagination where Jerome Bettis is a HOF player. None.
It's not really if they should get in  
fanatic II : 9/18/2020 1:16 am : link
It's about who is in this HOF class. The competition.

Those that are certain to be nominated and how many spots will be available after that. It's a numbers game.
Tiki should've been in already  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/18/2020 1:58 am : link
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