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Corey Ballentine

CMicks3110 : 9/16/2020 11:28 pm
it's always baffled my why some really physically talented players just don't perform. Ballentine is a perfect example, sure he went to a small school and needs some more seasoning. But he has all the physical gifts to be a top flight corner. His measureables were considerably better than Baker, and yet he was a 6th round pick. He was a weak spot on Monday, but it's not like he way blowing coverages, so mentally he's covering the right folks, but receivers are beating him. What is it that separates the athletes from the great players? Is it will power? technique? intelligence?
It’s the mysteries of life, man  
Ben in Tampa : 9/16/2020 11:36 pm : link
.
it's reps  
Giantsfan79 : 9/16/2020 11:36 pm : link
doing the same thing over and over again until it becomes second nature.
some if not most of these  
Rory : 9/17/2020 12:15 am : link
guys need 3-4 seasons to really mature in the roll and if they are not slowed by injuries about 1/4 of them become solid long term starters.

this is why I get so frustrated with fans for showing zero patience with 1st, 2nd year players.
technique  
broadbandz : 9/17/2020 12:20 am : link
Ballentine doesn't have any confidence in himself because his technique is lacking.
When you step way up in class  
HomerJones45 : 9/17/2020 1:04 am : link
it takes time for the player to realize that they can in fact play at that level.
CB  
Dragon : 9/17/2020 1:10 am : link
Is no joke out on one player each and every down he tests you deep, slant, and more, blocking a young player has to master all these then just feel it’s a run or pass. He has so much to learn and become second nature to his position with many changes as the opponent changes. Is he a starting CB only time will tell but at present he’s the next man up ready or not. Don’t be fooled even the best get beat it’s limiting the number of being beaten that makes him a good CB, but it’s not easy at all.
Remember Corey Webster  
V.I.G. : 9/17/2020 1:10 am : link
Took him 3 seasons
CB  
Dragon : 9/17/2020 1:11 am : link
Is no joke out on one player each and every down he tests you deep, slant, and more, blocking a young player has to master all these then just feel it’s a run or pass. He has so much to learn and become second nature to his position with many changes as the opponent changes. Is he a starting CB only time will tell but at present he’s the next man up ready or not. Don’t be fooled even the best get beat it’s limiting the number of being beaten that makes him a good CB, but it’s not easy at all.
Sorry  
Dragon : 9/17/2020 1:11 am : link
Dbl post
I think you answered your own question  
81_Great_Dane : 9/17/2020 1:12 am : link
Quote:
... sure he went to a small school and needs some more seasoning. But he has all the physical gifts to be a top flight corner. ...

Try it this way:

Sure he has all the physical gifts to be a top-flight corner, but he went to a small school and needs some more seasoning.
Having the physical gifts "to do it" might never transfer to the field  
George from PA : 9/17/2020 4:17 am : link
Bottomline, how he uses those gifts is what matters...milli-seconds difference....reaction time might not translate well enough.lets hope he develops....

On the opposite side,

Blake is a perfect example....his speed #s indicated a slower player.....but he certainly played much quicker then his #s.

Don't be so down on him  
SLIM_ : 9/17/2020 6:02 am : link
You mentioned he was a late round pick from a small school. He missed a lot of mini-camp activiites last year but showed well in preseason on the outside. He was completely miscast last year in the slot. Jenkins should have been moved to that position due to his quickness and savvy. Our coaching staff completely bungled it.

So again without a true pre-season, Ballentine was put into a starting role and I don't think he played terrible. I think the picks/rubs is something we will get better as a team. Their top 6 DB's consisted of Ballentine, a rookie and a vet who had all of a week's worth of practice.

We need to see progression in him but I think he takes his lumps during the 1st half of this year.
If Judge and this staff  
section125 : 9/17/2020 6:20 am : link
keep putting him on the field then they see him as being capable. As mentioned above, it took Webster almost 3 years to figure it out and he was a 2nd rounder.
C webster came to mind for me as well  
mpinmaine : 9/17/2020 6:54 am : link
and although a different position, A. Toomer
Don’t buy it with Corey  
RetroJint : 9/17/2020 7:08 am : link
He can’t play . If you invest 3 years in him , after 3 years he still won’t be able to play . I think that with corners and RBs you can tell right away . Guys like Webster and Sehorn took awhile but I think injuries factored in their slow starts .
It's not like he was garbage either.  
mittenedman : 9/17/2020 7:36 am : link
Ben Roethlisberger put on an absolute clinic throwing the football. Those back shoulder fades are almost impossible to cover.

I've always been a big fan of Ben's game. He is underrated IMO. If you are not getting to him, he is going to rip you up, and he did. That was some high level QB play.
1 game  
Big Blue '56 : 9/17/2020 7:38 am : link
under new regime
RE: Don’t buy it with Corey  
section125 : 9/17/2020 7:54 am : link
In comment 14975136 RetroJint said:
Quote:
He can’t play . If you invest 3 years in him , after 3 years he still won’t be able to play . I think that with corners and RBs you can tell right away . Guys like Webster and Sehorn took awhile but I think injuries factored in their slow starts .


What?????
You can tell right away, but Webster and Sehorn were exceptions...ok. Well maybe Judge and Graham can tell..

He may not pan out, we do not know, but a small college 6th round draft choice may need a few more games before we can tell anything.
While I mostly like what DG has done, not signing a better corner like  
Ira : 9/17/2020 8:33 am : link
Prince was a mistake. I won't say that Ballentine won't get better. I don't know whether he will or not. But he's clearly not ready for what he has to deal with right now.
I always think of it as ...  
dschwarz in westchester : 9/17/2020 8:58 am : link
The 'Gretzky' effect.

Wayne Gretzky wasn't big. He wasn't physical. He wasn't particularly fast and he didn't have an elite/powerful shot. But he was uniquely aware of his surroundings, what everyone was doing and going to do, and what he needed to do to succeed. He was literally steps ahead of everyone else on the ice and as such, he looked like God even if there were tons of players who had better physical tools than he did.

The lesson is that fans tend to overate physical traits; the 25th fastest CB in the NFL is faster than anyone you or I will ever meet. Being fast, or big, or tall, is pretty much taken for granted in the Pros and the physical difference between 'elite' guys and JAG at the NFL level just isn't as big a deal as we like to think. They are ALL incredibly physically gifted and being 10 lbs heavier, 2 inches taller, or 0.3 seconds faster in the 40 yard dash just isn't that big a deal.

What is a big deal is the guys who have the situational awareness and technique to be steps ahead mentally coupled with the athletic ability to make stuff happen. Those are the guys who end up being special.

Ballentine has the physical profile to succeed, but he comes from a small program and he's trying to catch up, and so far it isn't happening for him (which is a bummer) but it happens all the time.
It's confidence.  
Johnny5 : 9/17/2020 9:00 am : link
Confidence in ability but also in scheme.... and to your responsibilities in that scheme. At least to my eyes. If you are not 100% confident in the fast twitch decision you are making on a coverage you miss a play.

That nanosecond of hesitation is the difference between making a play and not, especially on a passing play.

A perfect example is the TD to Schuster where Yiadom had the coverage. That hesitation was clear as day and on display, and it was an easy TD.

These guys on NFL teams have the athletic ability. But it's the difference between that confidence on what your responsibilities are that allows a player to hit that responsibility at 100% speed... and ultimately keeps them in the league (or sends them packing).
There's more to physical ability than is measured at the combine  
Milton : 9/17/2020 9:01 am : link
They don't measure hand eye coordination at combine nor can they measure instincts. This is why things that can't be measured are also tested for in the position drills. It's something that is eyeballed, not measured by a stop watch or a yard stick. There's also mental processing speed, which I consider different from intelligence, because it's more about making decisions quickly.
He is thinking to much  
nygiants16 : 9/17/2020 9:01 am : link
He jist needs to go out and play, he has talent just has to stop thinking because it makes him a step slow..
Ha dschwarz...  
Johnny5 : 9/17/2020 9:02 am : link
We should combine our posts. Well said.
Guy basically hasn’t had a  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 9/17/2020 9:11 am : link
Regular off-season or training camp. He will get there. He has been thrown into a bunch of stuff that he was marginally prepared for.
Every one inf the NFL is an athletic freak  
PatersonPlank : 9/17/2020 9:18 am : link
so just being a great athlete isn't enough as it was in college (especially a small school). There are things like football smarts (some players get it some don't), desire and attitude, ability to respond to coaching, etc.

Lots and lots of great athletes fail at the NFL level and it has nothing to do with raw ability.
Dschwartz  
FThomas : 9/17/2020 9:38 am : link
Great post
It's  
AcidTest : 9/17/2020 9:40 am : link
much too early to tell about Ballentine. As others have said, he came from a small school, got shot, and was playing out of position in the slot last year. And like everyone else, he basically had no offseason, something that was especially important given that he has new coaches. Ben also threw some extremely accurate passes. Ballentine is trying to catch up to the speed of the NFL. Remember that he wasn't projected to be the starting corner opposite Bradberry. Baker and Beal were ahead of him on the depth chart.

Webster failed when he was playing a zone scheme. He started to succeed when he was allowed to play more press man.
RE: Remember Corey Webster  
Dr. D : 9/17/2020 9:50 am : link
In comment 14975117 V.I.G. said:
Quote:
Took him 3 seasons

And IIRC he was benched midway through his 3rd season before something clicked.
Not every player drafted with measurables  
GManinDC : 9/17/2020 9:53 am : link
Is NFL material. Like said above, fans get enamored with measurable. Because they "look" the part, doesn't mean they are the part.

That and fans expections are are not attainable. Some fans beleive that if player X is drafted to fill a positon of need, player X "must" be that player. It has to work. Then as usual, they will get crapped on.

I think it's more of a expecation that a drafted player to fill a postion of need should be playing better. As we know, not every draft pick makes it.

I came to conculusion years ago that it takes a few yrears to see what a player is. Not all, but some, Sometimes that "light" does not come on. Or, they are beat out by someone better at the positon.
Pretty much every guy has the physical tools  
DCOrange : 9/17/2020 10:02 am : link
If you are playing a skill position in the NFL, you are an elite athlete regardless of whether you are the best CB in the NFL or the worst. So some guys have to be at the bottom, some at the top.
to use a tennis analogy when you step up in class  
gtt350 : 9/17/2020 10:03 am : link
you get annihilated. I played college tennis and am still rated a 4.5.
I played a teaching pro 5.0-5.5 and he toyed with me
Judge said...  
Dan in the Springs : 9/17/2020 10:09 am : link
Darius Slayton "plays fast". This is different from being fast.

CB may be fast, but right now he's not playing fast. That's likely due to the fact that he's got a lot going on in his head. He was considered a very raw prospect last year, and now he has a new defensive scheme - specifically described by many as "multiple", with new DB's in Bradberry Holmes, Yiadom, Ryan, having moved from slot last year to outside corner this year, facing an unfamiliar opponent.

Just too much new for him.

He might improve given time. He might now.

Right now I'm going with the coaches in believing he can/will learn to play fast.
Hey, remember Sean Bennett?  
Greg from LI : 9/17/2020 10:14 am : link
He was a tremendous athlete. Lousy running back, though.
RE: Don’t buy it with Corey  
FStubbs : 9/17/2020 10:23 am : link
In comment 14975136 RetroJint said:
Quote:
He can’t play . If you invest 3 years in him , after 3 years he still won’t be able to play . I think that with corners and RBs you can tell right away . Guys like Webster and Sehorn took awhile but I think injuries factored in their slow starts .


You can't tell with corners right away. RBs and maybe kickers are the only positions where you can tell right away.
Young player small school  
eli4life : 9/17/2020 11:08 am : link
Probably wasn’t going to be the starter until Beal opted out and baker went stupid. Add in new system and virtually no offseason and it’s not inconceivable he might need more time and reps
RE: Young player small school  
ArlingtonMike : 9/17/2020 11:52 am : link
In comment 14975284 eli4life said:
Quote:
Probably wasn’t going to be the starter until Beal opted out and baker went stupid. Add in new system and virtually no offseason and it’s not inconceivable he might need more time and reps

Shame about Beal opting out but gives him the opportunity to get bigger and stronger. Made more plays in limited time last year than both the other Bs.

Ballentine is a nice kid and a great story. But not much of a CB and may never be. Sehorn and Webster came from major programs and were high round picks. Hard to compare.

We will see much more of Ryan and Holmes this week as they phase out CB.

At least we're going to find out with Ballentine  
Dnew15 : 9/17/2020 12:35 pm : link
I get frustrated when they bury guys like Ballentine on the roster - never play him - but then claim they've got depth at the position.

If he sucks - draft or sign a CB in the offseason and cut him b/c we know he can't play.
RE: Don’t buy it with Corey  
Rory : 9/17/2020 12:55 pm : link
In comment 14975136 RetroJint said:
Quote:
He can’t play . If you invest 3 years in him , after 3 years he still won’t be able to play . I think that with corners and RBs you can tell right away . Guys like Webster and Sehorn took awhile but I think injuries factored in their slow starts .


ok, so without blowing up on you which I'm trying not to do anymore on this board...

so what level of coaching or expertise tells you that? If you dont have that then what gives you sense that you can post something like that

I'm willing to admit I dont have that level but I trust this coaching staff and the general idea that its his 2nd year after spot starting late last year.

please advise
RE: Ha dschwarz...  
dschwarz in westchester : 9/17/2020 2:12 pm : link
In comment 14975186 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
We should combine our posts. Well said.


Thanks - and agreed that confidence is a big part of it. Some guys I'm convinced are just built to take the emotional beating better than others.

Seriously, can you imagine failing at your job in front of 75,000 screaming fans with cameras recording your every agonizing second? Most of us would be in therapy by the second quarter of our first game. But some of these guys seem born for it... and some less so.
RE: Dschwartz  
dschwarz in westchester : 9/17/2020 2:16 pm : link
In comment 14975207 FThomas said:
Quote:
Great post


Thanks!

Also, to all the people pointing out that it's too early to give up on Ballentine - I actually very much agree. Another bizarre outshoot of the current NFL culture is we give up on guys way to fast.

My post was solely as to why Ballentine isn't succeeding RIGHT NOW despite seeming to have the physical ability to do so. This isn't to say he can't figure it out in another season or two; even if the odds for a guy like him (late round pick, small school prospect, etc.) aren't great.

Right now the Giants should be all about guys like him - young, cheap, and talented. Let them compete and learn, and see who sticks. If Ballentine doesn't work out that's a bummer but it happens.
Here’s some questions for the player w/ tools  
Daniel in MI : 9/17/2020 3:20 pm : link
- how good is your technique?
- how good is your understanding of the playbook, you thinking too much?
- how well do you study film, learn tendencies?
- how well do you understand football, know what’s likely coming?
- how well do you know the D and where help is/isn’t?
- how fast can you process information on the fly?
- how hard do you compete, how bad do you want it?
- how do you handle pressure, do you tighten up?
- how is your conditioning?
- how short is your memory, do you spiral after a bad play? Try too hard?

Everyone in the NFL is insanely talented. They are all physically gifted. Good players have to anticipate what’s coming accurately, understand their role in the D, know the D backwards, etc to be able to put the tools they have to good use.
RE: Remember Corey Webster  
Brick72 : 9/17/2020 10:44 pm : link
In comment 14975117 V.I.G. said:
Quote:
Took him 3 seasons

^^ This.
Every time I look at Corey Ballentine I see Corey Webster. Not because of the first name but because of the skillset. Give Ballentine another year to develop. I think BBI will be quite pleased. Just sayin'.
So he essentially got drafted because of his tremendous measurables  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/17/2020 10:57 pm : link
and he did have good physical tape in college from what I understand. Is there a chance that getting shot in the ass slowed him up? Even if it was marginally, it seems like that was going to be the edge he needed at the NFL. Impossible to know for sure, but that always was in back of my mind after incident.
Posters complained that coaches last year  
LBH15 : 9/17/2020 11:11 pm : link
misused Ballentine and said he is more of an outside corner. Didn’t notice any improvement in his play on Monday. Chicago Bears threw at him last year like he had a bulls-eye on his jersey.

Hope he works out because they need some reliable resources in secondary but have a feeling otherwise. We’ll see.
what exactly were Ballantine's stats against Steelers?  
bc4life : 9/18/2020 11:33 am : link
Saw he got beat with nice back-shoulder throw but I'm not sure what the facts are re: how he played on every snap.
was watching highlights and  
bc4life : 9/18/2020 11:59 am : link
did a little reading. one article that was critical said he was targeted 7 times. I saw 2 receptions. 1 was an out, the other was a nice back shoulder throw. If the article was accurate re: targets - that is 5 throws that I could not render a judgment on. and there was a lot of talk about how good a lot of the coverage was on Monday. again, how bad was Ballantine?

I mean isnt' Ballentine...  
BillKo : 9/18/2020 12:58 pm : link
....a second year player with not all that much playing experience?

I sorta remember Jason Sehorn being a non factor until his third year...........takes time for certain players. Not comparing the two, but sometimes it takes time.

To write off Ballentine as a non factor for the future is ill advised at this point.

As someone said above, he's going to play a lot and we'll find out.

Sehorn took a while because....  
Greg from LI : 9/18/2020 1:50 pm : link
...they kept trying to make him a safety in his first few seasons. They didn't think he could play corner, I guess because he was white?
Lets be real: Ballantine and Holmes will be learning the hard way  
SGMen : 9/18/2020 2:08 pm : link
They are out there because Baker is a felon and Beal was projecting Covid perhaps? These are two young guys who will learn each week and hopefully develop.

In all honestly, we need to catch a break and have Ballantine become solid and SOON. I think his lack of big school experience coupled with a very limited off-season hurts him. He has the physical tools and I gather the spirit to be good but needs experience.

Many players have the physical attributes to play in the NFL  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/18/2020 2:47 pm : link
And don't make it. Just having the physical attributes means little.
RE: was watching highlights and  
LBH15 : 9/18/2020 2:52 pm : link
In comment 14976075 bc4life said:
Quote:
did a little reading. one article that was critical said he was targeted 7 times. I saw 2 receptions. 1 was an out, the other was a nice back shoulder throw. If the article was accurate re: targets - that is 5 throws that I could not render a judgment on. and there was a lot of talk about how good a lot of the coverage was on Monday. again, how bad was Ballantine?


Thanks bc. Seems like he was better than I had thought then. Might have mistaken him for guys that rotated in too.
I don't know  
bc4life : 9/18/2020 5:18 pm : link
I could only locate 2 of the catches on film and had to assume the article targeting count was accurate.

at any rate, I think the rub routes were a problem for all of them
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