from Sy's game review
How do you build an elite defense? Continuity, chemistry, scheme, draft quality players. The Steelers have, for pretty much 17 years, made their defense a main priority when it comes to coaching and drafting. In that span, they’ve ranked top 10 in points allowed 12 times and top 5 in points allowed 7 times. It is in their blood. When it comes to personnel, they they rarely miss in the 1st round. Devin Bush, T.J. Watt, Bud Dupree, Ryan Shazier, Cam Heyward…all those guys have been drafted since 2011 in round 1 and they all (minus the injured Shazier) are still making an impact on this team in a big way. Add in the trade for Minkah Fitzpatrick and you are looking at 5 elite players at their respective positions and I would say 4 of 20 the league’s Defensive Player of the Year candidates.
Speaking of drafting, I did a team study on the Steelers and their success at drafting skill position players in the middle rounds. In rounds 2-4 since 2017, take a look at these names: JuJu Smith-Schuster (round 2), James Conner (round 4), James Washington (round 2), Diontae Johnson (round 2), Benny Snell (round 4), Chase Claypool (round 2), and a name you will hear about soon enough in Anthony McFarland (round 2). You will have a hard time finding more homegrown skill position talent in the league. |
a snippet from an article in the athletic
| Impressively, Pittsburgh drafted Watt and Dupree with late first-round picks — Watt went seven picks after Engram in the 2017 draft. The Giants have had seven picks in the top 36 in general manager Dave Gettleman’s three drafts and haven’t landed a dominant defensive player with any of those selections. |
anyone care to speculate on the reasons for Pitt's draft success compared to ours? Are their scouts simply superior to ours? What about their approach to the draft is different?
Just look at former draft day threads to see which D players the members are pushing. You can start with Aaron Donald and end with 2019 if you want.
Struggling to draft/build a competent OL has certainly hurt us.
The Fitz trade made the defense elite. If they had anything at QB last year they would have been a contender.
They traded nothing for TE Mcdonald. A gave up a late 4th round pick for a early 5th and McDonald.. They only gave up 10 draft spots to get McDonald. A steal.
They always seem to make the right call on not overpaying their guys too.
Quote:
....Our entire list of current players from the 2010-2017 timeframe is Shepard, Engram, Tomlinson, Gallman. They have more out of the 2017 draft alone than we got out of those 7 drafts combined. ...
For this sentence to be more accurate you should include Peppers (at least) since Beckham was drafted in that window and traded and unlike players who get cut or leave via free agency a traded player is one you as a team controlled to acquire a different player (in Beckham's case).
that was it.
Ok I'd say that's bizarrely semantical but Peppers doesn't change the point. There are reasons why nobody we picked ourselves in those pre-2016 drafts was on the field while the Steelers had Dupree, Heyward, and Tuitt wreaking havoc. There's not much need to do any mental gymnastics to dismiss such an obvious reality or downplay it. Switch the jerseys for those 3 players alone and it's a different game.
There is no all star team of former NYG draft picks who left the building being ignored. I believe Joseph is probably the only guy selected in those 6 years who left and still made a pro bowl, and we let him leave.
All GMs have hits and misses but fitting the asset allocation together with the correct philosophy is what the good teams do.
Accorsi was far from perfect but he had a pretty simple philosophy. A great QB and pass rushers. You can never have too many pass rushers. Look at who he drafted, where he spent his money and what the results were.
The current Giants GM has been on the job 3 full years and the Giants don't have a single impact pass rusher on the team. The Steelers are loaded with them all the good teams are.
That's exactly right and very well said. If you look at the teams that are regularly in contention they have philosophy's rooted in modern football - KC, Seattle, NE, Pitt, Balt. Get the top qb, the OL, pass rushers, and CBs and everything else is interchangeable. Resource allocation is critical and those are the most impactful positions in the sport. The Giants may have their qb, but a long way to go to fill the other positions. When the Giants were at their best, those positions were at their best.
When you said:
"They have more out of the 2017 draft alone than we got out of those 7 drafts combined.."
Leaving out Beckham isn't some mental gymnastics by me, it's a fact, he is (was) arguably the best player on either team out of the period you compared and him as an asset led to Peppers.
not including him makes your "analysis" incomplete.
When you post something people will comment on it, if you don't want people to comment on it don't post it.
But- they have certainly been a MUCH more consistent franchise no doubt.
When you said:
"They have more out of the 2017 draft alone than we got out of those 7 drafts combined.."
Leaving out Beckham isn't some mental gymnastics by me, it's a fact, he is (was) arguably the best player on either team out of the period you compared and him as an asset led to Peppers.
not including him makes your "analysis" incomplete.
When you post something people will comment on it, if you don't want people to comment on it don't post it.
I explained my original post omitted players from both organizations who are not currently on their rosters because the purpose of the post was why the Steelers roster is better now, in the present, looking like the SB contender they are against us the rebuilding team we are Monday night.
I didn't include OBJ for the same reason I didn't include Antonio Brown who was also drafted in that period and inarguably just as impactful a player over his career in Pittsburgh.
One person has accountability. Isn't that how most football operations run?
They should've poached someone from Pittsburgh itself. Or NE's FO or KC or any other well run team.
Dan Colbert - College/Pro Scout
FWIW, Tim Rooney was director of pro personnel for the Giants from 1985-1999.
This is what the Giants used to do. Regardless of how the offense performed you knew you had to deal with the Giants defense. And they weren't going to stop coming atcha. There was a time when you mentioned Chicago, NYG and the Vikings defenses in the same breath. A few other teams like Buffalo later. But the Giants were always part of the "defense" discussion.
The Giants got away from that. Teams like the Steelers and Ravens have kept it going. Murderous defenses.
Think about this for a second, if the Giants had a murderous defense can you even begin to comprehend how dangerous the offense with DJ would be against an opponent that's always on its heels? The results would actually be pretty silly.
Dan Colbert - College/Pro Scout
Assuming there will be no nepotism at all in a privately owned organization is unrealistic. Nepotism is necessarily bad,related people can be highly skilled and qualified.
But when it isn't working and you refuse to change, you get bad results.
Also, way too many on here re-writing history regarding Accorsi. His time as GM is very much a mixed bag, but he was right on Eli and TC. I hope we have a similar combination now.
Also, way too many on here re-writing history regarding Accorsi. His time as GM is very much a mixed bag, but he was right on Eli and TC. I hope we have a similar combination now.
Amen.
Also,comparing DG's 3 year term to date to the Steelers' last decade is a canard. It's too soon to even judge DG's 3 years. Which BTW look as good or better than the Steelers' past 3 years - which is also way too early to pass judgement on.
Sheesh.
then Coughlin came to town and in his first draft they took Snee and signed O'Hara in year 1, Mckenzie year 2. Reese I'm sure was involved in the Snee pick, plus the previous additions of Diehl/Seubert, but obviously that was an area where he did not succeed in reinvesting as well as Accorsi had done.
Accorsi's tenure was a mixed bag but at the end he left 3 legacies:
- Eli
- A top OL
- "you can never have enough pass rushers"
Reese contributed to building all 3 areas when he ran the drafts but after becoming GM but just didn't have good succession plans for reinvesting in any of those 3 areas.
If he'd traded up for Mahomes/Watson instead of taking Davis Webb, or rebuilt the OL better, or taken say TJ Watt/Donald instead of Engram/OBJ, he might still be GM today.