"In reading through last Monday’s Giants-Steelers game discussion thread, it quickly became clear to me that a lot of Giants fans are still in denial. They either can’t or won’t accept reality.
What is that reality? When you start over with a new coaching staff, you are literally starting over. The uncomfortable truth that many can’t accept is that the franchise wasted the last four years by hiring Ben McAdoo and Pat Shurmur. Any “building” you do with the wrong coaching staff is erased when you hire a new coaching staff. No progress was made. The Giants are back at the starting line. Fans who complain, “nothing has changed” don’t seem to get this. We’re starting over again. Deal with it. It is what it is."
The McAdoo and Shurmur years were like one of those board games where a roll of the dice or spin of a wheel means that you have to go back to the beginning and start all over.
Gates is going to struggle all year. I'm not sure what people were expecting. As you note, he's never played center at any level. Pulley is the past.
Jones is holding the ball too long because aside from Slayton, our WRs don't get much separation. This is part of the reason why Engram will probably stay on the field even though his poor blocking exacerbates our OL problems.
I agree we may see Shane L. and Peart sooner rather than later.
Barkley is being clobbered by two or three defenders as soon as he gets the ball.
Everyone is going to pick on Ballentine, but he was never supposed to start. That was supposed to be Baker or Beal. McKinney is also out for at least another few months. We may see Ryan more at CB in the near future.
We desperately need an EDGE rusher. It takes too long for our DL to push the pocket back into the QB to the point where they can get a sack. Our secondary isn't good enough to give them the time they need to do so.
the bears are not good. if the giants lose this game it will be a very discouraging sign and a lot of the optimism from week 1 will be lost
i think you're being too hard on the defense eric. i saw huge improvements from last year in game 1. they got pressure. they covered people. i didn't see a ton of blown assignments like we have become accustomed to seeing. the defense got legitimate stops during the game, and if they recover bradbury's forced fumble they would have made an enormous play. they just don't have the horses on defense as you mentioned, which we already knew. ballentine is going to have to cover someone. holmes is a rookie. you can't give help to everyone so one of them is going to have to hold up.
the bears are not good. if the giants lose this game it will be a very discouraging sign and a lot of the optimism from week 1 will be lost
i think you're being too hard on the defense eric. i saw huge improvements from last year in game 1. they got pressure. they covered people. i didn't see a ton of blown assignments like we have become accustomed to seeing. the defense got legitimate stops during the game, and if they recover bradbury's forced fumble they would have made an enormous play. they just don't have the horses on defense as you mentioned, which we already knew. ballentine is going to have to cover someone. holmes is a rookie. you can't give help to everyone so one of them is going to have to hold up.
I mentioned that I was being tough on them. But you have to make stops in key situations. You also have to create turnovers and not allow your opponent to score on half of his possessions.
Bottom Line: cut down on mistakes and don't turn it over
After were unbelievable even for our forums. I get it, losing sucks but what the actual fuck did anyone reasonably expect would happen knowing all the circumstances.
BBI posters know an OL needs time to gel.
They know we had 3 new players on the OL.
They know we had zero preseason games.
They know we had less live practices than ever before.
I do think we are on the right path and this coaching staff is the right one to change the culture.
This is the youngest team in the NFL and if they are the right players we should be good in a year or 2.
I expect 2 to 3 wins in the first 8 but could easily win 4 or 5 in the second 8.
the Defense did force a turnover, they just didn’t recover it. That would have been a huge play there after the INT at the goal line. Also the Run D was very good until late in the game. Snell had one large run and a few that increased his stats, but overall, I think the Run D was very good.
The Oline will struggle if they are not physical and miss assignments. I’m very surprised by the play of Zeitler and Fleming. The right side of that line should have been better then the left IMO. We might just see Lemieux and Peart sooner then later this year.
the Defense did force a turnover, they just didn’t recover it. That would have been a huge play there after the INT at the goal line. Also the Run D was very good until late in the game. Snell had one large run and a few that increased his stats, but overall, I think the Run D was very good.
The Oline will struggle if they are not physical and miss assignments. I’m very surprised by the play of Zeitler and Fleming. The right side of that line should have been better then the left IMO. We might just see Lemieux and Peart sooner then later this year.
the Defense did force a turnover, they just didn’t recover it. That would have been a huge play there after the INT at the goal line. Also the Run D was very good until late in the game. Snell had one large run and a few that increased his stats, but overall, I think the Run D was very good.
The Oline will struggle if they are not physical and miss assignments. I’m very surprised by the play of Zeitler and Fleming. The right side of that line should have been better then the left IMO. We might just see Lemieux and Peart sooner then later this year.
By definition, they did not force a turnover.
Well they forced a fumble, which would have been a turnover had the Giants recovered it. I understand the definition. The defense needs to get that ball and not let the WR jump in there and come away with it. There were more Giants there then Steelers. Very disappointing turn of events none-the-less.
But that doesn't mean we can't look at other teams strengths/weaknesses and try to see how Giants match up. For me the keys to beating the Bears this week are getting Barkley on track in the running game and getting pressure on Trubisky to force bad throws. Obviously the Bears will focus on Barkley, but even Adrian Peterson had 93 yards on 14 carries against them. Other than one INT and one sack on Stafford the Bears D did not seem to have dominant performance. Maybe Garrett will run more spread concepts against the Bears to get space for Barkley b/c those 3 TE sets did not seem to work.
Lamest excuse for losing I’ve seen on this site, especially when you look at the Giants history. Reeves/Fassel made the playoffs year 1. Coughlin won the division year 2. Even McAdoo made the playoffs year 1.
They’re losing because the guys who are supposed to be impact players aren’t playing like impact players.
They lost in large part because they played a superior team
Are they the only team that will make improvements, yes hopefully we will get better but don’t think about wins right now let players Individually get better. Then let’s see them play better as groups to better play from the entire offense, special teams and defense. Most teams can say our offense or defense is our strength to this point we’re still looking for a strength. We lack talent across the entire team and consistent production from those we expect to lead the lesser talents on the team. The first game of the season most would think they played way above their heads and we still can’t score enough or stop offenses at critical times.
Fifty percent of us don’t understand the Coleman decision but don’t be afraid to make more cuts and bring in better talent and no I’m not talking about the from our practice squad. One mans trash is another mans treasure let’s find some of those cast off treasures.
Why did we wait until the result of week 1 to accept the truth
that this team will be fortunate to get to 7 wins? It was pretty rosy in the offseason.
Rosy? Wtf? How many posters here seriously thought this team would win over 7 games? It has been almost universal around here that this team will likely struggle mightily with the new coaching staff and shitstorm of an off-season. The common thought has been the coaching staff appears to hopefully be improved and we just want to see progress as the season goes on. Rosy?
Hot damn you are such a miserable fuck.
RE: RE: Why did we wait until the result of week 1 to accept the truth
that this team will be fortunate to get to 7 wins? It was pretty rosy in the offseason.
Rosy? Wtf? How many posters here seriously thought this team would win over 7 games? It has been almost universal around here that this team will likely struggle mightily with the new coaching staff and shitstorm of an off-season. The common thought has been the coaching staff appears to hopefully be improved and we just want to see progress as the season goes on. Rosy?
Hot damn you are such a miserable fuck.
I'm actually not miserable at all. I was miserable when I cared so much about this team that the losing hurt. Separating myself from that mess has improved my state of mind.
And, I am not surprised that a restructured OL struggled out of the gate with a very good front 7. What I am frustrated with is that the restructured OL looks every bit as historically bad as the last few years.
Rather than ask the O line and the tight end to do the impossible
namely, block better than they are capable, I would play a blocking fullback and sacrifice a receiver. A fullback will help the running game and give the receivers more time to separate. Garrett played his fullback in Dallas. Why not in NY.
spot on Eric. Re Fleming and Zeitler, I'd have a short leash
If your right side is going to get beat with vets, you might as well let the younger, more promising guys get their feet wet in a season with low expectations.
As for Barkley, I sense he is becoming somewhat of a diva. I hope Judge nips that in that bud. And then assigns him to film study of watching Walter Payton. No just for blocking, but for finishing off runs. At 233 lbs. he should punishing CBs and Safeties, not trying to jump over them, which by the way is a sure fire way to assure himself of a brief career when he inevitably get clobbered by a chasing LB when he lands,
I don’t think anyone was surprised the Giants struggled.
What I am surprised at is the apparent floor for the line and run game, which is quite lower than I expected.
Nick Gates looked summarily outclassed, and Zeitler, who is the defacto leader and presumably the most game ready, looks shot.
I fully expect the Giants to take the step from zero to one over the next few weeks, but they are moving up from a much lower position than I expected.
It's not like the Giants can just throw their helmets onto the field
And beat a team, but Chicago is one of those middle-of-the-pack teams that are indeed "beatable."
This is one of those early games that can have a lot of impact going forward. The Giants don't really know which games they can actually win. They don't even know "how" to win until they actually start doing it.
If the Giants want to stay relevant for at least the first half of this season, then this is the game the Giants better figure out how to win.
People expecting results against the Steelers were deluding themselves
McAdoo made the playoffs in 2016 because of a wild spending spree on defense paired with an already established QB.
That being said this is a tremendous benchmark game. No reason this shouldn't come down to last position. In fact, if it doesn't, I'll seriously start to have doubts about the actual talent on this team or the coaching staff. This Bears team is mediocre and is in disarray. They should have never won that game last week. Giants coming off a loss and Bears coming off a lucky win bodes well for us as far as motivation goes.
RE: spot on Eric. Re Fleming and Zeitler, I'd have a short leash
If your right side is going to get beat with vets, you might as well let the younger, more promising guys get their feet wet in a season with low expectations.
As for Barkley, I sense he is becoming somewhat of a diva. I hope Judge nips that in that bud. And then assigns him to film study of watching Walter Payton. No just for blocking, but for finishing off runs. At 233 lbs. he should punishing CBs and Safeties, not trying to jump over them, which by the way is a sure fire way to assure himself of a brief career when he inevitably get clobbered by a chasing LB when he lands,
Yes, but also a short leash on Hernandez. He has been a disappointment after his rookie year. The best 2 of Hernandez, Zeitler, and Lemieux should play if they deem Lemieux even close to up to speed. He can't be worse than the level of play we've been receiving for a long time on the interior. And Fleming should absolutely have a short leash.
RE: Rather than ask the O line and the tight end to do the impossible
namely, block better than they are capable, I would play a blocking fullback and sacrifice a receiver. A fullback will help the running game and give the receivers more time to separate. Garrett played his fullback in Dallas. Why not in NY.
+1 - Plus, more straight ahead blocking. FB and power blocking once in a while. Can't keep relying on fancy scheme blocking. And spreading 3 wide or the TE wide hasn't stopped teams from loading up the box against us for some time.
played well the first game per Sy and Skinner. I will take their word and video observations.
He was OK. "Well" may be a stretch. He was so bad last year it's not much to compare him to.
I have said this a few times. I think the Giants placement of Hernandez and Zeitler confuses me. I assume they wanted the rookie next to the veteran LT instead of garbage at RT. But, Solder was crap and Hernandez played mostly RG in college. On the other side, Zeitler played his best when at LG with the Browns. Why not let them each play to their strengths?
Pretty sure will played on the left side for his college career.. and Sky’s review of him was compared to last year.. it was solely based on the Steelers game.. the left side of the line played fairly well.. it was center to right tackle as well as TE’s where the problems were
RE: spot on Eric. Re Fleming and Zeitler, I'd have a short leash
If your right side is going to get beat with vets, you might as well let the younger, more promising guys get their feet wet in a season with low expectations.
As for Barkley, I sense he is becoming somewhat of a diva. I hope Judge nips that in that bud. And then assigns him to film study of watching Walter Payton. No just for blocking, but for finishing off runs. At 233 lbs. he should punishing CBs and Safeties, not trying to jump over them, which by the way is a sure fire way to assure himself of a brief career when he inevitably get clobbered by a chasing LB when he lands,
If Zeitler, Fleming and Gates all struggle mightily AGAIN this week you have to start thinking Peart, Lemiuex and Pulley are on deck. I'd hate three rookies this early on the OL but if we are out of the playoffs why not see our 2021 displayed at season's end?
"In reading through last Monday’s Giants-Steelers game discussion thread, it quickly became clear to me that a lot of Giants fans are still in denial. They either can’t or won’t accept reality.
What is that reality? When you start over with a new coaching staff, you are literally starting over. The uncomfortable truth that many can’t accept is that the franchise wasted the last four years by hiring Ben McAdoo and Pat Shurmur. Any “building” you do with the wrong coaching staff is erased when you hire a new coaching staff. No progress was made. The Giants are back at the starting line. Fans who complain, “nothing has changed” don’t seem to get this. We’re starting over again. Deal with it. It is what it is."
The McAdoo and Shurmur years were like one of those board games where a roll of the dice or spin of a wheel means that you have to go back to the beginning and start all over.
Gates is going to struggle all year. I'm not sure what people were expecting. As you note, he's never played center at any level. Pulley is the past.
Jones is holding the ball too long because aside from Slayton, our WRs don't get much separation. This is part of the reason why Engram will probably stay on the field even though his poor blocking exacerbates our OL problems.
I agree we may see Shane L. and Peart sooner rather than later.
Barkley is being clobbered by two or three defenders as soon as he gets the ball.
Everyone is going to pick on Ballentine, but he was never supposed to start. That was supposed to be Baker or Beal. McKinney is also out for at least another few months. We may see Ryan more at CB in the near future.
We desperately need an EDGE rusher. It takes too long for our DL to push the pocket back into the QB to the point where they can get a sack. Our secondary isn't good enough to give them the time they need to do so.
i think you're being too hard on the defense eric. i saw huge improvements from last year in game 1. they got pressure. they covered people. i didn't see a ton of blown assignments like we have become accustomed to seeing. the defense got legitimate stops during the game, and if they recover bradbury's forced fumble they would have made an enormous play. they just don't have the horses on defense as you mentioned, which we already knew. ballentine is going to have to cover someone. holmes is a rookie. you can't give help to everyone so one of them is going to have to hold up.
i think you're being too hard on the defense eric. i saw huge improvements from last year in game 1. they got pressure. they covered people. i didn't see a ton of blown assignments like we have become accustomed to seeing. the defense got legitimate stops during the game, and if they recover bradbury's forced fumble they would have made an enormous play. they just don't have the horses on defense as you mentioned, which we already knew. ballentine is going to have to cover someone. holmes is a rookie. you can't give help to everyone so one of them is going to have to hold up.
I mentioned that I was being tough on them. But you have to make stops in key situations. You also have to create turnovers and not allow your opponent to score on half of his possessions.
We will miss Tate if in fact, he is out due to his hamstring.
BBI posters know an OL needs time to gel.
They know we had 3 new players on the OL.
They know we had zero preseason games.
They know we had less live practices than ever before.
The vitriol was childish and willful ignorance.
This is the youngest team in the NFL and if they are the right players we should be good in a year or 2.
I expect 2 to 3 wins in the first 8 but could easily win 4 or 5 in the second 8.
The Oline will struggle if they are not physical and miss assignments. I’m very surprised by the play of Zeitler and Fleming. The right side of that line should have been better then the left IMO. We might just see Lemieux and Peart sooner then later this year.
The Oline will struggle if they are not physical and miss assignments. I’m very surprised by the play of Zeitler and Fleming. The right side of that line should have been better then the left IMO. We might just see Lemieux and Peart sooner then later this year.
By definition, they did not force a turnover.
I feel the Giants are finally on par with most teams....not the best teams but they can now compete with teams like Chicago.
Obviously new system, gelling, and overall comfort....but I expect improvement.
I want a win
Quote:
the Defense did force a turnover, they just didn’t recover it. That would have been a huge play there after the INT at the goal line. Also the Run D was very good until late in the game. Snell had one large run and a few that increased his stats, but overall, I think the Run D was very good.
The Oline will struggle if they are not physical and miss assignments. I’m very surprised by the play of Zeitler and Fleming. The right side of that line should have been better then the left IMO. We might just see Lemieux and Peart sooner then later this year.
By definition, they did not force a turnover.
Well they forced a fumble, which would have been a turnover had the Giants recovered it. I understand the definition. The defense needs to get that ball and not let the WR jump in there and come away with it. There were more Giants there then Steelers. Very disappointing turn of events none-the-less.
Question 2 - No
They’re losing because the guys who are supposed to be impact players aren’t playing like impact players.
Fifty percent of us don’t understand the Coleman decision but don’t be afraid to make more cuts and bring in better talent and no I’m not talking about the from our practice squad. One mans trash is another mans treasure let’s find some of those cast off treasures.
Rosy? Wtf? How many posters here seriously thought this team would win over 7 games? It has been almost universal around here that this team will likely struggle mightily with the new coaching staff and shitstorm of an off-season. The common thought has been the coaching staff appears to hopefully be improved and we just want to see progress as the season goes on. Rosy?
Hot damn you are such a miserable fuck.
Quote:
that this team will be fortunate to get to 7 wins? It was pretty rosy in the offseason.
Rosy? Wtf? How many posters here seriously thought this team would win over 7 games? It has been almost universal around here that this team will likely struggle mightily with the new coaching staff and shitstorm of an off-season. The common thought has been the coaching staff appears to hopefully be improved and we just want to see progress as the season goes on. Rosy?
Hot damn you are such a miserable fuck.
I'm actually not miserable at all. I was miserable when I cared so much about this team that the losing hurt. Separating myself from that mess has improved my state of mind.
You need to stop taking it personally.
As for Barkley, I sense he is becoming somewhat of a diva. I hope Judge nips that in that bud. And then assigns him to film study of watching Walter Payton. No just for blocking, but for finishing off runs. At 233 lbs. he should punishing CBs and Safeties, not trying to jump over them, which by the way is a sure fire way to assure himself of a brief career when he inevitably get clobbered by a chasing LB when he lands,
What I am surprised at is the apparent floor for the line and run game, which is quite lower than I expected.
Nick Gates looked summarily outclassed, and Zeitler, who is the defacto leader and presumably the most game ready, looks shot.
I fully expect the Giants to take the step from zero to one over the next few weeks, but they are moving up from a much lower position than I expected.
And beat a team, but Chicago is one of those middle-of-the-pack teams that are indeed "beatable."
This is one of those early games that can have a lot of impact going forward. The Giants don't really know which games they can actually win. They don't even know "how" to win until they actually start doing it.
If the Giants want to stay relevant for at least the first half of this season, then this is the game the Giants better figure out how to win.
That being said this is a tremendous benchmark game. No reason this shouldn't come down to last position. In fact, if it doesn't, I'll seriously start to have doubts about the actual talent on this team or the coaching staff. This Bears team is mediocre and is in disarray. They should have never won that game last week. Giants coming off a loss and Bears coming off a lucky win bodes well for us as far as motivation goes.
As for Barkley, I sense he is becoming somewhat of a diva. I hope Judge nips that in that bud. And then assigns him to film study of watching Walter Payton. No just for blocking, but for finishing off runs. At 233 lbs. he should punishing CBs and Safeties, not trying to jump over them, which by the way is a sure fire way to assure himself of a brief career when he inevitably get clobbered by a chasing LB when he lands,
I have said this a few times. I think the Giants placement of Hernandez and Zeitler confuses me. I assume they wanted the rookie next to the veteran LT instead of garbage at RT. But, Solder was crap and Hernandez played mostly RG in college. On the other side, Zeitler played his best when at LG with the Browns. Why not let them each play to their strengths?
As for Barkley, I sense he is becoming somewhat of a diva. I hope Judge nips that in that bud. And then assigns him to film study of watching Walter Payton. No just for blocking, but for finishing off runs. At 233 lbs. he should punishing CBs and Safeties, not trying to jump over them, which by the way is a sure fire way to assure himself of a brief career when he inevitably get clobbered by a chasing LB when he lands,