we don't have the horses on this team yet but I'm optimistic that Judge will not just improve coaching and preparation but also improve talent acquisition. he's spent a career under Bill B and Saban.
part of what gives me optimism is that we've seen the Pats start slow many times and make improvements/change starting personnel as the season progresses. i expect to see the same here.
sorry what? They just outscored them 14-0 in the second half and had a chance to win. What's wrong with optimism?
Optimistic about what? That we won't totally suck shit and we will just kinda suck shit?
This team is on a path to no where right now.
The point isn't that there is particularly stuff to be optimistic about. The point is that being optimistic is not a bad thing. It's a better way to live life to be honest.
sorry what? They just outscored them 14-0 in the second half and had a chance to win. What's wrong with optimism?
Optimistic about what? That we won't totally suck shit and we will just kinda suck shit?
This team is on a path to no where right now.
The point isn't that there is particularly stuff to be optimistic about. The point is that being optimistic is not a bad thing. It's a better way to live life to be honest.
Fair, but it seems like the owner of this organization has taken on that mantra in regards to how he makes decisions and at this point its killing the organization.
Not canning Gettleman after last season will wind up being a disaster
moral victories = loses plain and simple. We may want to feel good about things, but we are what the scoreboard says we are and that's LOSERS!!!!
There is a big difference between moral victories and objectively looking at the game and seeing some positive things to build on. Yes, this is going to be a long season but WTF did you expect? The game came down to the final play without Barkley and Shepard. I'm not "happy" but try to be objective and step off the ledge
sorry what? They just outscored them 14-0 in the second half and had a chance to win. What's wrong with optimism?
Optimistic about what? That we won't totally suck shit and we will just kinda suck shit?
This team is on a path to no where right now.
The point isn't that there is particularly stuff to be optimistic about. The point is that being optimistic is not a bad thing. It's a better way to live life to be honest.
Fair, but it seems like the owner of this organization has taken on that mantra in regards to how he makes decisions and at this point its killing the organization.
Not canning Gettleman after last season will wind up being a disaster
Mook you’re one of the best posters here, but I disagree with your take. Hiring DG and trying to reload for one last run with Eli was a disaster.
Hiring Judge, and drafting 3 OL with our first 5 picks this year isn’t a disaster - at least, way to early to say
IMO DG was kept for one more season to give our ownership comfort before turning the keys over to Judge (we can debate our ownerships decision making separately).
But IMO it’s also fair to see positives out of a game like this, despite the org still suffering overall from decision making over the last 8 years
When's the last time we were competitive against good defenses like the Bears-Steelers in back to back weeks?
- We finally found a QB.
- The O-Line isn't good but no longer pathetic and we have 2 studs in Hernandez and Thomas
- When's the last time the defense played as well as today? Or even last week... Judge has these guys playing hardnosed football. They're holding teams to FG and making key 3rd down stops. The D-Line has the makings of a very good unit, and the secondary has a couple of playmakers for a change.
Things are looking up. Give DG another offseason or 2 to infuse some more talent into the team and we'll be rolling. But the early returns on the team so far is nothing but positive
and I didn't hate the draft DG had this off-season.
But making a GM keep a head coach that he didn't hire rarely works. It winds up with power struggles usually and just is a bad idea.
You have to let GM's hire the coach. I like Judge but I think that's just a recipe for disaster.
This team may be headed for the #1 pick. I think they might steal a couple games because of Jones and I do think they will play hard. But they are going to be the least talented team on the field in every single game they play this season.
if they get the #1 pick you draft Lawrence and don't even think about anything else. And I'm a fan of Jones, but Lawrence is as good of a QB prospect that has come out in the last 20 years.
if they get the #1 pick you draft Lawrence and don't even think about anything else. And I'm a fan of Jones, but Lawrence is as good of a QB prospect that has come out in the last 20 years.
and I didn't hate the draft DG had this off-season.
But making a GM keep a head coach that he didn't hire rarely works. It winds up with power struggles usually and just is a bad idea.
You have to let GM's hire the coach. I like Judge but I think that's just a recipe for disaster.
This team may be headed for the #1 pick. I think they might steal a couple games because of Jones and I do think they will play hard. But they are going to be the least talented team on the field in every single game they play this season.
I strongly disagree with this take. First off, Mara hires the head coaches, not the GM. I’ve even seen you post that before. Gettleman didn’t hire Judge and I doubt he hired Shurmur.
I hope if they hire a GM, it is someone from NE or had previous ties with NE and a relationship with Judge.
and I didn't hate the draft DG had this off-season.
But making a GM keep a head coach that he didn't hire rarely works. It winds up with power struggles usually and just is a bad idea.
You have to let GM's hire the coach. I like Judge but I think that's just a recipe for disaster.
This team may be headed for the #1 pick. I think they might steal a couple games because of Jones and I do think they will play hard. But they are going to be the least talented team on the field in every single game they play this season.
I strongly disagree with this take. First off, Mara hires the head coaches, not the GM. I’ve even seen you post that before. Gettleman didn’t hire Judge and I doubt he hired Shurmur.
I hope if they hire a GM, it is someone from NE or had previous ties with NE and a relationship with Judge.
Mara hiring the head coaches is another huge issue. He probably does, but either way he should not be. The GM should be hiring the coach.
New (rookie) head coach, new everything, young team, no OTAs. Everybody's on the learning curve. Yes, every team missed OTAs, but teams with continuity have a big advantage in this situation. The Giants are in transition.
If Judge is the real deal, this team will look very different in November & December. The worst thing about Shurmur's time here was that they didn't improve, they just sort of got stuck on "lousy." I want to see Joe Judge push through that and coach these guys up.
Do you really not see this as a different team as the last 4 years?
0-2.
I don't.
Than either this is your first year of watching football or you saw a different game. As in life, not everything is as cut and dry as "0-2". do you think they would have come down to the last play of this game 2 years ago? last year? I don't.
The Giants don’t really have a GM they have a guy who reports to the Mara family and occasionally talks to the media to take the heat. Is there really any difference between Reese and Gettleman?
do you think they would have come down to the last play of this game 2 years ago? last year? I don't.
Actually, it has happened a bunch of times in recent seasons. They had the ball late with a chance to win the Cards game last year, didn't win. Had a lead in the second half against the Jets, blew it. Had the ball late in the 4th against the Bears with a chance to win, didn't. Choked against the Eagles and lost in OT. Etc, etc.
The most frustrating thing about this team for the past few years is that they've had chances to win a lot of these games and they almost never can do it.
At halftime, down 17-0, with nothing going in our favor
nobody thought this game was going to come down to the final play from the 10.
We're an under-talented team, playing a 2nd year QB we're still not totally sure has the goods, behind an OL with a rookie LT and a couple guys who probably wouldn't be starting on most teams. We've got a newly minted head coach, new OC, new DC, and STC, and a defense that can charitably be called "patchwork." Oh, and we had a fucked up offseason where players didn't start working together until 6 weeks before the season started. We just lost our best offensive weapon, and our #2 WR. And before all that, we were perhaps a six win team (if we caught a few breaks).
This was always going to be a long year. Now, if nothing else, we have clarity. This season is about how well these guys hang together and compete when the world has zero expectations for you.
The funny thing is I keep reading people say we don't have talent
I think we have a lot of talent, its just very young. On offense Jones, Engram, Slayton Shep, Thomas, Hernandez, Gates, and the injured Barkley. On defense Peppers, Dex, X, Tomlinson, Williams, Love, Holmes, Bradbury. Even Martinez isn't old.
I think we are talented, we just need more games. Today was a good step
John Mara is. Mara is the one who should be pissed on and vilified for that record . You can feel the collective frustration ooze out from Giants fans . It’s understandable . But Judge is 0-2 . Not sugar-coating the close loss today . The Bears tried to give them the game . But let’s hang in there with the current staff and roster . I am convinced they will start winning their share of games . And I expect they will be much better in the division this season .
do you think they would have come down to the last play of this game 2 years ago? last year? I don't.
Actually, it has happened a bunch of times in recent seasons. They had the ball late with a chance to win the Cards game last year, didn't win. Had a lead in the second half against the Jets, blew it. Had the ball late in the 4th against the Bears with a chance to win, didn't. Choked against the Eagles and lost in OT. Etc, etc.
The most frustrating thing about this team for the past few years is that they've had chances to win a lot of these games and they almost never can do it.
I said of THIS game. Obviously there have been close games over the last 3 year but the changes made at halftime, ramping up the effort and attitude AFTER they knew they lost their star player for the year, the way the final drive played out. Those are all positives, not just "moral victories", they are improvements and that is what I expected and hoped for this year. Obviously I'm as disappointed as everyone else but it's not as much black and white as a lot of people are saying. There are many shades of gray.
I still don’t see the point in regurgitating the 8 years we suck talk
It’s irrelevant now. This regime hasn’t been here for 6 months let alone 6 years. And what good does it do to cry about 7 fucking years ago. It means nothing. Bad teams stay bad or turn good based on what they do in the present.
All some fans do here is talk about the past or obsess about future contracts.
I think we have a lot of talent, its just very young. On offense Jones, Engram, Slayton Shep, Thomas, Hernandez, Gates, and the injured Barkley. On defense Peppers, Dex, X, Tomlinson, Williams, Love, Holmes, Bradbury. Even Martinez isn't old.
I think we are talented, we just need more games. Today was a good step
LOLOLOL - you just listed a bunch of players who haven’t done anything. None of those players are difference makers. None.
RE: I still don’t see the point in regurgitating the 8 years we suck talk
It’s irrelevant now. This regime hasn’t been here for 6 months let alone 6 years. And what good does it do to cry about 7 fucking years ago. It means nothing. Bad teams stay bad or turn good based on what they do in the present.
All some fans do here is talk about the past or obsess about future contracts.
Gettleman passed on all recievers in this draft with so many good ones, while we watch Shepard hurt again, and Engram suck again while we wait for him to get hurt again, the Barkley pick has officially gone down the tubes now too. Don't like Gettleman much, he is better then horrendous Reese was but hitching our wagon to Jones is developing into a real risk, he is not quick minded, makes bad decisions under pressure and even with a good team these are bad tendencies that may not be correctable, many mistakes on that last drive, little things that lead to big mistakes. The common sense to simply run the ball out of bounds and gain 2-3 yards, he instead throws the ball into the ground, the sideline pass with 10 seconds left, he just doesn't have a mind or the leadership and confidence you want to see, you wait for the screwup knowing its coming from him.
RE: RE: The funny thing is I keep reading people say we don't have talent
I think we have a lot of talent, its just very young. On offense Jones, Engram, Slayton Shep, Thomas, Hernandez, Gates, and the injured Barkley. On defense Peppers, Dex, X, Tomlinson, Williams, Love, Holmes, Bradbury. Even Martinez isn't old.
I think we are talented, we just need more games. Today was a good step
LOLOLOL - you just listed a bunch of players who haven’t done anything. None of those players are difference makers. None.
So you don't think Thomas, Jones, Dex, Peppers, Bradberry, and Slayton haven't done anything? I'd say they have improved, are playing well, and have a tremendous amount of upside
I'm more optimistic than I was at halftime. I'm optimistic that this is going to be a well-coached team, even if the talent is awful. And it really is awful, probably the worst collection of talent I can remember. But at least with good coaching they should be watchable and steal a few games here and there while we wait for the roster to improve
moral victories = loses plain and simple. We may want to feel good about things, but we are what the scoreboard says we are and that's LOSERS!!!!
There is a big difference between moral victories and objectively looking at the game and seeing some positive things to build on. Yes, this is going to be a long season but WTF did you expect? The game came down to the final play without Barkley and Shepard. I'm not "happy" but try to be objective and step off the ledge
I guess these numbnuts thought they were going to the playoffs?
Almost everyone said 6 wins would be the likely win total this year as they are still lacking on talent. This team fights until the end and shut the Bears out in the 2nd half...
I’m a fan not a fucking investor. If I want to get excited about the team then I will do it all I want. It doesn’t effect you at all if I’m excited heading into a season.
do you think they would have come down to the last play of this game 2 years ago? last year? I don't.
Actually, it has happened a bunch of times in recent seasons. They had the ball late with a chance to win the Cards game last year, didn't win. Had a lead in the second half against the Jets, blew it. Had the ball late in the 4th against the Bears with a chance to win, didn't. Choked against the Eagles and lost in OT. Etc, etc.
The most frustrating thing about this team for the past few years is that they've had chances to win a lot of these games and they almost never can do it.
That's what bad teams do. The NFL is built on parity. Very few games are supposed to be blowouts. The good teams get an occasional laugher and a lot of close games that they win. The bad teams are on the wrong side of a few laughers and a lot of close games they contrive to lose. The Giants are a bad team.
Absolutely. Right now. No explanations needed. We need real football players at virtually every position. Then, and only then, do they need to be made into a team, one that can and does win. This bunch is light years away from that.
It's easy to just say the Bears suck and walk around like a Do Do bird, but they don't. Nagy went 12-4 his first year and 8-8 last year. 20-12 the last 2 years is a much better football outfit than ours right now. We still haven't figured out how to win 1 game. They win a lot of games. They have a stingy D, good special teams and spread the ball around enough offensively to be annoying.
They aren't world beaters but they are a solid middle of the pack NFL football team.
All that said, is it me or did the Offensive Line seem to click in the 2nd half? If they could get something going up front this year, that would be great for the future. Also think Zeitler's declined and excited to see Lemieux at RG.
Than either this is your first year of watching football or you saw a different game. As in life, not everything is as cut and dry as "0-2". do you think they would have come down to the last play of this game 2 years ago? last year? I don't.
A single double-digit win season in 8 years.
12-38 in their last 3+ seasons.
Definitely not cut and dry. They battled, right? I mean, they are getting paid to do this and they have careers to worry about but they battled for the team....to 0-2.
And it looks like the Coqboys and Eagles are going to be 0-2 also. If Redskins lose, they are 1 game out of first place. Division games will be huge.
Optimistic about what? That we won't totally suck shit and we will just kinda suck shit?
This team is on a path to no where right now.
part of what gives me optimism is that we've seen the Pats start slow many times and make improvements/change starting personnel as the season progresses. i expect to see the same here.
If they are in position to take Lawrence, they should take him. Jones shows flashes, but they never score points.
Quote:
sorry what? They just outscored them 14-0 in the second half and had a chance to win. What's wrong with optimism?
Optimistic about what? That we won't totally suck shit and we will just kinda suck shit?
This team is on a path to no where right now.
The point isn't that there is particularly stuff to be optimistic about. The point is that being optimistic is not a bad thing. It's a better way to live life to be honest.
Yeah we know morale victories are still losses. But I see a team responding well to Judge and his staff so far
Quote:
In comment 14978519 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
sorry what? They just outscored them 14-0 in the second half and had a chance to win. What's wrong with optimism?
Optimistic about what? That we won't totally suck shit and we will just kinda suck shit?
This team is on a path to no where right now.
The point isn't that there is particularly stuff to be optimistic about. The point is that being optimistic is not a bad thing. It's a better way to live life to be honest.
Fair, but it seems like the owner of this organization has taken on that mantra in regards to how he makes decisions and at this point its killing the organization.
Not canning Gettleman after last season will wind up being a disaster
There is a big difference between moral victories and objectively looking at the game and seeing some positive things to build on. Yes, this is going to be a long season but WTF did you expect? The game came down to the final play without Barkley and Shepard. I'm not "happy" but try to be objective and step off the ledge
You people are delusional.
Quote:
In comment 14978561 MookGiants said:
Quote:
In comment 14978519 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
sorry what? They just outscored them 14-0 in the second half and had a chance to win. What's wrong with optimism?
Optimistic about what? That we won't totally suck shit and we will just kinda suck shit?
This team is on a path to no where right now.
The point isn't that there is particularly stuff to be optimistic about. The point is that being optimistic is not a bad thing. It's a better way to live life to be honest.
Fair, but it seems like the owner of this organization has taken on that mantra in regards to how he makes decisions and at this point its killing the organization.
Not canning Gettleman after last season will wind up being a disaster
Mook you’re one of the best posters here, but I disagree with your take. Hiring DG and trying to reload for one last run with Eli was a disaster.
Hiring Judge, and drafting 3 OL with our first 5 picks this year isn’t a disaster - at least, way to early to say
IMO DG was kept for one more season to give our ownership comfort before turning the keys over to Judge (we can debate our ownerships decision making separately).
But IMO it’s also fair to see positives out of a game like this, despite the org still suffering overall from decision making over the last 8 years
- We finally found a QB.
- The O-Line isn't good but no longer pathetic and we have 2 studs in Hernandez and Thomas
- When's the last time the defense played as well as today? Or even last week... Judge has these guys playing hardnosed football. They're holding teams to FG and making key 3rd down stops. The D-Line has the makings of a very good unit, and the secondary has a couple of playmakers for a change.
Things are looking up. Give DG another offseason or 2 to infuse some more talent into the team and we'll be rolling. But the early returns on the team so far is nothing but positive
If we play like the 2nd half today we will win more games than people were predicting before the season.
Everyone said this is a rebuilding year with the new OL and coach, and that is exactly what is happening
You people are delusional.
Do you really not see this as a different team as the last 4 years?
But making a GM keep a head coach that he didn't hire rarely works. It winds up with power struggles usually and just is a bad idea.
You have to let GM's hire the coach. I like Judge but I think that's just a recipe for disaster.
This team may be headed for the #1 pick. I think they might steal a couple games because of Jones and I do think they will play hard. But they are going to be the least talented team on the field in every single game they play this season.
Agree with that.
But making a GM keep a head coach that he didn't hire rarely works. It winds up with power struggles usually and just is a bad idea.
You have to let GM's hire the coach. I like Judge but I think that's just a recipe for disaster.
This team may be headed for the #1 pick. I think they might steal a couple games because of Jones and I do think they will play hard. But they are going to be the least talented team on the field in every single game they play this season.
I strongly disagree with this take. First off, Mara hires the head coaches, not the GM. I’ve even seen you post that before. Gettleman didn’t hire Judge and I doubt he hired Shurmur.
I hope if they hire a GM, it is someone from NE or had previous ties with NE and a relationship with Judge.
Quote:
and I didn't hate the draft DG had this off-season.
But making a GM keep a head coach that he didn't hire rarely works. It winds up with power struggles usually and just is a bad idea.
You have to let GM's hire the coach. I like Judge but I think that's just a recipe for disaster.
This team may be headed for the #1 pick. I think they might steal a couple games because of Jones and I do think they will play hard. But they are going to be the least talented team on the field in every single game they play this season.
I strongly disagree with this take. First off, Mara hires the head coaches, not the GM. I’ve even seen you post that before. Gettleman didn’t hire Judge and I doubt he hired Shurmur.
I hope if they hire a GM, it is someone from NE or had previous ties with NE and a relationship with Judge.
Mara hiring the head coaches is another huge issue. He probably does, but either way he should not be. The GM should be hiring the coach.
The fact that Sterling Shepard is one of our two best offensive players should end all optimism.
More often teams hire the HC first, and then the GM is someone who can work with that coach. SF is a prime example.
0-2.
I don't.
They scored 13 points for the game and that the same broken record people are tired of hearing.
New (rookie) head coach, new everything, young team, no OTAs. Everybody's on the learning curve. Yes, every team missed OTAs, but teams with continuity have a big advantage in this situation. The Giants are in transition.
If Judge is the real deal, this team will look very different in November & December. The worst thing about Shurmur's time here was that they didn't improve, they just sort of got stuck on "lousy." I want to see Joe Judge push through that and coach these guys up.
Never too early to think about our top 6 picks.
Quote:
Do you really not see this as a different team as the last 4 years?
0-2.
I don't.
Than either this is your first year of watching football or you saw a different game. As in life, not everything is as cut and dry as "0-2". do you think they would have come down to the last play of this game 2 years ago? last year? I don't.
God fans can really suck sometimes.
Actually, it has happened a bunch of times in recent seasons. They had the ball late with a chance to win the Cards game last year, didn't win. Had a lead in the second half against the Jets, blew it. Had the ball late in the 4th against the Bears with a chance to win, didn't. Choked against the Eagles and lost in OT. Etc, etc.
The most frustrating thing about this team for the past few years is that they've had chances to win a lot of these games and they almost never can do it.
We're an under-talented team, playing a 2nd year QB we're still not totally sure has the goods, behind an OL with a rookie LT and a couple guys who probably wouldn't be starting on most teams. We've got a newly minted head coach, new OC, new DC, and STC, and a defense that can charitably be called "patchwork." Oh, and we had a fucked up offseason where players didn't start working together until 6 weeks before the season started. We just lost our best offensive weapon, and our #2 WR. And before all that, we were perhaps a six win team (if we caught a few breaks).
This was always going to be a long year. Now, if nothing else, we have clarity. This season is about how well these guys hang together and compete when the world has zero expectations for you.
I think we are talented, we just need more games. Today was a good step
Everybody else...not so much.
Quote:
do you think they would have come down to the last play of this game 2 years ago? last year? I don't.
Actually, it has happened a bunch of times in recent seasons. They had the ball late with a chance to win the Cards game last year, didn't win. Had a lead in the second half against the Jets, blew it. Had the ball late in the 4th against the Bears with a chance to win, didn't. Choked against the Eagles and lost in OT. Etc, etc.
The most frustrating thing about this team for the past few years is that they've had chances to win a lot of these games and they almost never can do it.
I said of THIS game. Obviously there have been close games over the last 3 year but the changes made at halftime, ramping up the effort and attitude AFTER they knew they lost their star player for the year, the way the final drive played out. Those are all positives, not just "moral victories", they are improvements and that is what I expected and hoped for this year. Obviously I'm as disappointed as everyone else but it's not as much black and white as a lot of people are saying. There are many shades of gray.
All some fans do here is talk about the past or obsess about future contracts.
I think we are talented, we just need more games. Today was a good step
LOLOLOL - you just listed a bunch of players who haven’t done anything. None of those players are difference makers. None.
All some fans do here is talk about the past or obsess about future contracts.
+1
Quote:
I think we have a lot of talent, its just very young. On offense Jones, Engram, Slayton Shep, Thomas, Hernandez, Gates, and the injured Barkley. On defense Peppers, Dex, X, Tomlinson, Williams, Love, Holmes, Bradbury. Even Martinez isn't old.
I think we are talented, we just need more games. Today was a good step
LOLOLOL - you just listed a bunch of players who haven’t done anything. None of those players are difference makers. None.
So you don't think Thomas, Jones, Dex, Peppers, Bradberry, and Slayton haven't done anything? I'd say they have improved, are playing well, and have a tremendous amount of upside
His run fits have been god awful.
His run fits have been god awful.
Peppers at best is an average defensive player.
And thats being way too kind. His play as a safety is often bad.
Quote:
He hasn't done anything but return punts.
His run fits have been god awful.
Peppers at best is an average defensive player.
And thats being way too kind. His play as a safety is often bad.
He's just a great athlete. Always has been from HS. Never really had a position, never really learned the game.
Quote:
moral victories = loses plain and simple. We may want to feel good about things, but we are what the scoreboard says we are and that's LOSERS!!!!
There is a big difference between moral victories and objectively looking at the game and seeing some positive things to build on. Yes, this is going to be a long season but WTF did you expect? The game came down to the final play without Barkley and Shepard. I'm not "happy" but try to be objective and step off the ledge
I guess these numbnuts thought they were going to the playoffs?
Almost everyone said 6 wins would be the likely win total this year as they are still lacking on talent. This team fights until the end and shut the Bears out in the 2nd half...
Shit thread.
Quote:
do you think they would have come down to the last play of this game 2 years ago? last year? I don't.
Actually, it has happened a bunch of times in recent seasons. They had the ball late with a chance to win the Cards game last year, didn't win. Had a lead in the second half against the Jets, blew it. Had the ball late in the 4th against the Bears with a chance to win, didn't. Choked against the Eagles and lost in OT. Etc, etc.
The most frustrating thing about this team for the past few years is that they've had chances to win a lot of these games and they almost never can do it.
They aren't world beaters but they are a solid middle of the pack NFL football team.
All that said, is it me or did the Offensive Line seem to click in the 2nd half? If they could get something going up front this year, that would be great for the future. Also think Zeitler's declined and excited to see Lemieux at RG.
A single double-digit win season in 8 years.
12-38 in their last 3+ seasons.
Definitely not cut and dry. They battled, right? I mean, they are getting paid to do this and they have careers to worry about but they battled for the team....to 0-2.