I’m as annoyed as anyone with another 0-2 start and I acknowledge it could get much worse before it gets better. But, I’m very impressed with Judge thus far. The team responded very well in the 2nd half. I loved his management of the time outs in the 2nd half.
I’m seeing a lot of “the new GM has to pick the HC”, that is a load of crap. That is not how this franchise does business and in the NFL, the head coach is FAR more important than the GM. Joe Judge is attempting to put a program together here and regardless of who the GM is next year, Judge will 1000% be the head coach.
I feel the Giants are in good hands at head coach, it’s refreshing to not have a head coach overly focused on the offense and calling plays. There will be a ton of growing pains this year, but I think he will coach here for a long time.
Blowing this up every year will just keep setting us back. We are coming off back to back coaches who didn’t exceed two seasons. Judge is here for a while, you need to accept that.
Keeping Gettleman shouldn't even be an option. He's terrible at his job. He's 3 years into the job and the Giants coming in to today had at best the 3rd worst roster in the league.
Barring playoffs, he needs to go. And it would take the biggest miracle of all time for this team to make the playoffs. They could have 12 teams make it in the NFC and they wouldn't sniff making it.
Forgive me for not thinking they all suck because they didn’t turn around the Browns, Jets and Lions - 3 of the worst franchises of my lifetime.
Let's put it this way.
Which coordinators from BB's staffs in the last 21 years haven't been head coaches?
The answer to that question are two guys total in 21 years. Dean Peas.
I'm not saying they all suck, and I already said I liked Judge. But I'm certainly not giving any of them the power to pick the GM.
Jones turns the ball over a lot more than I'd hoped. He must stop that if we are to get on track. Dallas scored 40 with no OL today, albeit against a crap Falcons team.
No
How did the 2007 team start out?
Yep 0-2 and if not for a Kavika Mitchell goal line stop 0-3. And that was with a talented team with a new DC.
My point, it takes time to learn the system and each other.
But hey if the final 4/5 Reese years and 3 years of Gettelman haven’t produced how much worse can it be to allow Judge heavy input on the next GM? You already mentioned we’ve been a bottom 3 team for years now, that’s about as bad as it gets - if we were flat out the worst we’d be getting #1 picks and likely better by now because of it.
The rest of the team has played as I expected. Jones is doing the best he can behind an erratic line but is still making the plays that lose games.
I still have confidence in Judge and his staff. But this was always a young team that was going to have trouble winning ball games.
It’s cliched when someone says they’ve seen it all. I have for over 60 years of literally seeing it all with this team. There’s something here and it’s not a Kool-Aid opinion. It’s also not based on fact, just “experience” for whatever that is worth..
But hey if the final 4/5 Reese years and 3 years of Gettelman haven’t produced how much worse can it be to allow Judge heavy input on the next GM? You already mentioned we’ve been a bottom 3 team for years now, that’s about as bad as it gets - if we were flat out the worst we’d be getting #1 picks and likely better by now because of it.
Agreed. Judge was brought in here to build a program, and he’s doing it. There will be growing pains.
We can’t just keep resetting every 2 years with no coaching staffs as much as fans would love that. There will likely be a new GM next year, whoever that GM is I hope he has some ties to Judge.
No
How did the 2007 team start out?
Yep 0-2 and if not for a Kavika Mitchell goal line stop 0-3. And that was with a talented team with a new DC.
My point, it takes time to learn the system and each other.
This team and the 2007 team are in completely different situations. This team has been trash for years. The 2007 team was coming off consecutive playoff appearances.
it's been deflating. There's been a couple of times where a 3 and out would have given the team a lift and instead the other team is gashing us up the middle. Disappointing given the resources allocated to that spot.
He played for the Pats. He didn't coach there.
Is Jason Garrett from the Fassel coaching tree?
If the season continues in this manner and we are looking at a new GM for health and performance reasons, they have to consider a full tear down if the front office. Get new blood in there from the top down. Chris can go race horses full time.
But hopefully they show some improvement throughout the season where staying the course seems like the better decision
He played for the Pats. He didn't coach there.
Is Jason Garrett from the Fassel coaching tree?
Personally I find the whole coaching tree thing about as dumb a concept as there is in the NFL.
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does Vrabel get counted on the BB coaching tree?
He played for the Pats. He didn't coach there.
Is Jason Garrett from the Fassel coaching tree?
Personally I find the whole coaching tree thing about as dumb a concept as there is in the NFL.
It's so stupid. It's actually a bad sign. Often decent head coaches getting awesome coaching out of their coordinators more like it leading to big seasons (Jim Fassel comes to mind). The BB coaching tree isn't good because he could have a bunch of scrubs coaching there and they'd still produce. It really has zero bearing on Joe Judge though because he was the special teams coach.
I will say that there may be something to some head coaches knowing how to hire.
He's at best a wait and see at this point. But there is still reason to be hopeful. There is just a tendency on this board to want to twist anything and everything they can into positives. Things like the team showing "fight" heard that a lot about Shurmurs teams too. I don't care about people's personal determinations of "fight" that's a really dumb variable to look at.
He's at best a wait and see at this point. But there is still reason to be hopeful. There is just a tendency on this board to want to twist anything and everything they can into positives. Things like the team showing "fight" heard that a lot about Shurmurs teams too. I don't care about people's personal determinations of "fight" that's a really dumb variable to look at.
Huh? The entire board thinks this will be no more than a 3 win team.
He's at best a wait and see at this point. But there is still reason to be hopeful. There is just a tendency on this board to want to twist anything and everything they can into positives. Things like the team showing "fight" heard that a lot about Shurmurs teams too. I don't care about people's personal determinations of "fight" that's a really dumb variable to look at.
Ehh, people can look at whatever they want. Just like you are claiming he's shown nothing and I think you are dead wrong on that.
He may end up being nothing as a HC. But I wouldn't bet on that, seems far too determined. And if you don't think we showed anything after Barkley went down then you are making up an argument just to argue.
And the Steelers beat us with scheme because their personnel allows them to. They had guys all over the field making plays at every level. If you won't concede that Tomlin has way more to work with than Judge then I really don't know what to tell you.
If Judge sucks he will be fired. Until then i'm excited as all hell that he's here and I have no reason not to be.
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the Steelers beat us with scheme. We are 0-2. I'm not saying Judge is the problem, but he's shown us nothing so far on the field.
He's at best a wait and see at this point. But there is still reason to be hopeful. There is just a tendency on this board to want to twist anything and everything they can into positives. Things like the team showing "fight" heard that a lot about Shurmurs teams too. I don't care about people's personal determinations of "fight" that's a really dumb variable to look at.
Huh? The entire board thinks this will be no more than a 3 win team.
You left out the other side that will attempt to spin anything into a negative. There are both negatives and positives each game, but I am not sure we are intelligent enough fans to know what they are, or we don't consider the possibility that we may be missing key details behind those positives and negatives.
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In comment 14980481 NoGainDayne said:
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the Steelers beat us with scheme. We are 0-2. I'm not saying Judge is the problem, but he's shown us nothing so far on the field.
He's at best a wait and see at this point. But there is still reason to be hopeful. There is just a tendency on this board to want to twist anything and everything they can into positives. Things like the team showing "fight" heard that a lot about Shurmurs teams too. I don't care about people's personal determinations of "fight" that's a really dumb variable to look at.
Huh? The entire board thinks this will be no more than a 3 win team.
You left out the other side that will attempt to spin anything into a negative. There are both negatives and positives each game, but I am not sure we are intelligent enough fans to know what they are, or we don't consider the possibility that we may be missing key details behind those positives and negatives.
Sean, I didn't mean to quote you. My response was to NoGayne.
But hey, keep doing what you do. I'm well aware of our record the past few years - I don't care, I suspect Judge doesn't either.
Sure there are. There are always positives and negatives. We have to be willing to be honest with ourselves about each and not attempt to make them something they are not.
And again, we should probably consider that what we see during the game isn't always what it seems. Whether positive or negative.
On top of that, the team has been dreadful for nearly a decade, they haven't been able to win the line of scrimmage in that point, and now the crown jewel of the offense tore his ACL in week 2.
This season is a wash for me-- I just want to see improvement and coalescence.
But I don't think you could have designed much of a harder situation for a first time head coach than Judge's current situation.
Of course there is spin. Hence making up shit about how the Giants lag behind everyone else in certain areas
On top of that, the team has been dreadful for nearly a decade, they haven't been able to win the line of scrimmage in that point, and now the crown jewel of the offense tore his ACL in week 2.
This season is a wash for me-- I just want to see improvement and coalescence.
But I don't think you could have designed much of a harder situation for a first time head coach than Judge's current situation.
Good post Paul. The thinking that I don't understand is labeling the factors that you listed as "excuses", when in reality I would consider those factors as reasons.
The #1 thing he's going to need this year is some late game magic from his QB. Joe Judge and his QB for that matter are going to have the inferior roster in every game they coach/play this year.
Yesterday was exactly what I expected a winnable game but they didn't win. It was there for the taking at the end and the QB couldn't quite get it done. That's the next step for this year. Win a few of those.
He will get his opportunities, but that was such a gut punch as a far as watching the game goes. I don't understand why replay exists if something as critical as that isn't looked at.
There is a difference between absolutely thinking Judge could be successful and acting like we've seen more than we actually have.
The following things we have seen to be true as Giants fans.
1) The Mara's care about what fans think
2) The Mara's view their own people generously and are too slow to change
As fans we really shouldn't be overly generous with our reads on the quality of people the Giants have in place. If there is a glimmer of hope of them making the real organizational changes we need to see if they continue to lose is if fans in droves are willing to demand those real changes like a GM outside the Giants family, dismissing Chris Mara, more hands off ownership in general, etc.
2) Nothing in the last 2 weeks changed that. But, nothing also instilled any more confidence either. Right now, all I can say is I see things I like in terms of possible future success. Any hope I had of some miracle season (and for me that was 7-8 wins) is out the window.
3) I absolutely do NOT want Judge picking the next GM. I want a GM who is not beholden to the coach.
4) That said, I don't trust the organizational leadership to do a stellar job hiring the next GM, whenever that may be and I am not convinced it is happening any time soon. If anything, losing Barkley and perhaps Shepard buys DG more time.
As for the coaching staff, I am still optimistic about judge and generally like his hires however DC was always the questionable one, and so far is probably the one most likely to be considered a disappointment at the end of the season.
I liked Garrett but would really like to see a more creative offense than what we have seen through the first two games.