First of all, when we knew there was finally going to be a season, a lot of the threads said something to the effect of:
“We have a tough schedule. With the limited practice time and the new coaching staff, we will likely struggle in the beginning of the season. As long as we play good football by the end of the year, the results won’t matter to me as I am not expecting much as far as a good record.”
They play the Steelers fairly well. Could have won if some plays went in our favor. They then throw up a first half stinker vs. the Bears. Didn’t help that Barkley got hurt. But they fight back and make it a close game down to the final play. Come up short and I come on here and some of you are saying we’re going 0-16.
Well, don’t you remember what you said just last month? Yes, it sucks SB got hurt. But some of your perceptions are just off. The team will improve as they have a chance to work together. I find it very doubtful we won’t play better football and get some wins going forward.
After all, most of you probably had SF down as a sure loss and half their stars got hurt today. This is the NFL as we know it.
Considering that people were suggesting Judge was going to have a mutiny on his hands for making players run laps (gasp!), I think the fact that the team has shown it's got pride and is willing to play hard is a good sign. And as far as Judge, nothing stands out to me as an example of poor game management.
Things will get better.
I am disappointed in D. Jones for his turnovers. However, it is two games in a new system so I'll hold out hope he gains momentum and executes better.
Losing Barkley sucks but D. Lewis is talented and can hold the fort.
We are in the division race after two games. Lets see if we can beat the 49'ers who are banged up and get on track. It is a real shame Dallas came back today. That is the NFL, comebacks are real.
Considering that people were suggesting Judge was going to have a mutiny on his hands for making players run laps (gasp!), I think the fact that the team has shown it's got pride and is willing to play hard is a good sign. And as far as Judge, nothing stands out to me as an example of poor game management.
Things will get better.
Since you all have no expectation for much success this year, when do you expect this team to start getting Ws? 2021?
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People are screeching about the team going 0-2, when three weeks ago, you couldn't find a single person who thought our best case scenario was more than seven wins. Between the fucked up offseason and the 100% turnover in the coaching ranks, there was never any reason to expect much to applaud.
Considering that people were suggesting Judge was going to have a mutiny on his hands for making players run laps (gasp!), I think the fact that the team has shown it's got pride and is willing to play hard is a good sign. And as far as Judge, nothing stands out to me as an example of poor game management.
Things will get better.
Since you all have no expectation for much success this year, when do you expect this team to start getting Ws? 2021?
Personally I hope for decent football this year. A good draft and a good FA period and we should be ready to compete for the division next season, assuming some young players take steps forward.
2) We may yet win 6-8 games. I think this trial by fire will pay dividends. We're getting 4 straight tests. We haven't passed yet, but at least we're not getting blown out. I thought Pitt might be more like 35-10, and this week we took it to the final play.
3) I think the OL will take time to gel. I think punching in that TD was a big boost today, you could see them play better after that.
4) I think we lack the horses still to go much beyond 6-8 wins. Specifically: DE, WR, RB (now), OLB, and CB.
5) So far, I think DJ is improving slowly. He threw at least 2 balls away today instead of forcing it. His 1 pick was at least in part an EE slip. He's got to reduce pumping it and secure it better, continue to feel pressure and get the ball out. But, let's be fair, he's had virtually no run game, and WRs are not getting much seperation. So, he's under pressure fitting it into tight windows. This adversity will help as he develops. He's going to have to carry this team.
6) Losing SB is a negative. He's a home run hitter. BUT, I will say I wonder if having a guy who will just take the 2-3 tough yards might help the OL. They're trying to gel, are most impacted by no pre-season, and while SB can hit a HR on any play, it might be short term helpful who will have a guy just jam it up where the play was called to go. You could see how fired up they were after the TD on 4th and G.
7) We've had the WORST RECORD IN THE NFL OVER 3 YEARS. We weren't going to come out and shove Pitt off the ball and scare the Bears. What I want to see is improvement. The main ? for me is what is this team in Dec.
8) There are no moral victories. But, the real win today were the friends we made along the way.
Since you all have no expectation for much success this year, when do you expect this team to start getting Ws? 2021?
I adjust my expectations as we go along. What if something crazy happens, like we lose Saquon Barkley to injury? Wouldn't a rational person adjust their expectations in such a case?
SF without Bosa and losing to Az is another team....just not playing as well as we think they are.....
The Giants are becoming the team everyone gets better....
Neither Pittsburgh nor the Bears deserved wins....
Now without Barkley...gives them even less weapons....not exactly going in the right direction
Snakebit.....I am just getting tired of it.
Right now my attention is on Jones and the OL. No single stat is more important than winning the turnover battle. We will never be a good team with Jones turning the ball over 2 plus times a game imo. Hoping that the OL becomes a strong point at the end with the team having its starters identified. Defense has been average but I was hoping for more from the DL with the money and resources spent.
Just because we'd like Jones to be a winning QB by now doesn't mean it will be. New schemes on all sides with almost zero in person interaction before the abbreviated camp & distraction of corona.
We should be looking for baby steps. Such as the OL taking a step forward. As great a player as Barkley is, the Giants developing a good OLine is far more important than Barkley.
I mentioned when Barkley was drafted, he is a big play back, not really a move the chains guy, he s a home run hitter. He will now be replaced by lesser backs, but not incompetent
As to fans, some are just wired in a way that they can’t see past the last bad play or loss; they project going forward based on the bad they have just seen.
It doesn’t help their team has been the worst team in football for the past three seasons, but I don’t understand why they are connecting those seasons to this, “same old, same old”, does not apply here, totally new regime.
My expectations, I ve felt all along, they will continue to improve and at some pt have a winning streak in the process beating some teams you didn’t think they would beat.
For me, I don’t feel the hopelessness of being a bad team with an older quarterback whose best days are behind him, It s a young team with a young quarterback, whose potential is as yet unknown, but there is a chance, a real chance, he s going to get better.
Turnovers were a problem for Phil Simms and Eli as well, but there was greatness there as well
More specifically to the game, it was just disheartening for this team to come out and get shut out 17-0 to this Bear team in the first half. They couldn't stop the run, Trubisky was throwing awful, wobbly ducks that still found open receivers, not getting off the field on third down, no running game as SB gets hurt and Jones with an awful fumble in the pocket yet again.
Glad they pulled it together and made it a game in the second half but it was mostly due to Trubisky errors, not NYG stellar play.
I wish I could feel better about the season and its only mid-Sept.
Yesterday was hard to swallow and not simply because we are again 0-2 but SB going down hurts.
That being said I think they will be OK, getting better as the season rolls on.
2020 can only last so long
What’s the alternative? Serious question by the way.
It sucks watching this team the last few years but I have 2 options - deal with it and watch or deal with it and don’t watch. It’s no different than any other fan base of a shitty team.
The entire “team building” plan was flawed and now we have yet another 0-2 start and lost season. The Maras are still too involved in player personnel. This franchise is the laughingstock of the NFL. There is no reason for any positivity, except it looks like the Head Coach may know what he’s doing as the team seems to play hard for him. But we’ll see how his act works when they’re 0-5.
Just because we'd like Jones to be a winning QB by now doesn't mean it will be. New schemes on all sides with almost zero in person interaction before the abbreviated camp & distraction of corona.
We should be looking for baby steps. Such as the OL taking a step forward. As great a player as Barkley is, the Giants developing a good OLine is far more important than Barkley.
They did not nuke everything until Gettleman is gone.
There were pre-season opinions here ranging from “we can make the playoffs” to “0-16, fire everyone.” The people who were more bearish on the team post more when things are bad, and the people who are bullish on the team post more when things are good. There has been no massive change in fan opinion.
I'm certainly not surprised, and I'm not even upset about it- this is the year we knew we would be facing.
But waiting years to just suck a little bit less is becoming exhausting.
How long before an OL should gel with 3 new players and a new coaching staff and scheme?
And don' even use this COVID preseason as an example. Consider we had a normal preseason with 4 preseason games.
What's a realistic timeframe for us to see a well oiled team?
Maybe I'm wrong.... but I think it is way, WAY too early to be destroying this team the way everyone is right now. Am I pissed that we are 0-2 again? Yeah of course. But I expected this. And I expected to be unsure of what we really have now for like at least half of this season. I am actually shocked that we have been as competitive as we have been so far.
It might not be fair to Joe Judge, but fans have been dealing with this trash football since 2013. The idea that fans should find a way to bury it is odd to me.
Anyway, whatever is said on this forum doesn't change anything anyway. What you're reading is boiling over frustration, obviously. You want people to be reasonable solely because that frustration grinds on your nerves, but everyone is in the same boat.
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Stop pretending to not understand why fans don't have patience at this point.
What’s the alternative? Serious question by the way.
It sucks watching this team the last few years but I have 2 options - deal with it and watch or deal with it and don’t watch. It’s no different than any other fan base of a shitty team.
Practically, I’ve spent zero dollars directly on the team in at least 5 years. Previously I would get to 2-3 games a year, and probably spend another $200 a year on gear as gifts. So I think there is that. When the Giants are better and worth watching, I’ll probably spend again.
I still love live football. I just moved out of the area, but would come back for games if they were worth it. When I lived in CA I would visit most Falls to catch a Giants and Yankees game. The Giants sucking has definitely put a damper on that.
It doesn’t help their team has been the worst team in football for the past three seasons, but I don’t understand why they are connecting those seasons to this, “same old, same old”, does not apply here, totally new regime.
Mostly new. DG is still the GM, and int that changes the Giants will not be anything more than mediocre
It might not be fair to Joe Judge, but fans have been dealing with this trash football since 2013. The idea that fans should find a way to bury it is odd to me.
Anyway, whatever is said on this forum doesn't change anything anyway. What you're reading is boiling over frustration, obviously. You want people to be reasonable solely because that frustration grinds on your nerves, but everyone is in the same boat.
Good points TTH.
these two games have been deja vu of how Giants lose games
that is the discouraging part
& where the fault lay for that? With the GM. Isn't the point of being GM to build up a talented team?
In terms of the talent, while I see some young guys doing more and Thomas looks the part, they still have a handful of key holes yet to be filled. This is where another crop of high draft picks and hopefully some impact additions via UFA will help progress.
The same result over 8 years. The same wrote responses for 8 years. The same delusional belief system for 8 years.
There were pre-season opinions here ranging from “we can make the playoffs” to “0-16, fire everyone.” The people who were more bearish on the team post more when things are bad, and the people who are bullish on the team post more when things are good. There has been no massive change in fan opinion.
This is spot on. Some people perception hasn't changed.
Hard to for an opinion based on a few soundbites, interviews, and limited clips of plays. especially with a pandemic and new staff.
I am not sure how anyone could be surprised about anything this season. It was more hope than anything else..
But he has inherited a poor group of players, let's not kid ourselves.
And the strategy of taking a running back with the #2 over all pick just blew up in Gettleman's face. The front office got it wrong big time in thinking that this team were close to competing, that Eli had one more great season left in him.
to get it right. They also don't know how to win games.
They are trying with a new coaching staff, but they have
so far to go. Their margin for error on the field is
razor thin to win games. That's why people like Jones,
have to minimize mistakes, instead of making them every week.
The reality is the majority of this site knows we aren't a playoff team and having a new coach with an unusual off season meant we weren't likely to "gel" until later in the season.
I for one thought we were a 6-7 win team, but also thought we'd win yesterday so maybe I didn't take my own advice but I'm still staying with my 6-7 win prediction. This team will be better on week 10 than we are now. You can see the signs of better coaching.
I see a young team piecing it together, that really looks better drive to drive. I also see a team you could predict would have major issues at center, right tackle, inside linebacker, corner, and WR depth.
In my view no number of practices, preseasons games, and years of coaching is going to make a winner when relying on guys like Gates, Downs, Fleming, Ballentine, Ebner, Yiadom, Board, Ratley. Have to kick the floor level talent up a notch.
Wins are wins and losses are loss, so yes I do understand the incredible difference between those 2 outcomes as success and failure. But let's look at a similar situation with other teams where logic can prevail over emotion - the Pats and Belicheck lost in a similar fashion, attempting to come back on the road vs. a good defense that's now 2-0. You can be certain there are no moral victories there because they know 1 play is the difference between a ring or no ring, but objectively I think we can all look at that for what it was and say they were in position to win, played a good game, and there's a positive for them to build on with Cam stepping up. Had they won it would have been as ballsy an achievement as you can expected in week 2, and perhaps the positive is that they will win that game next time as the coaches get more in sync with Cam's skillset.
Obviously the Pats have a vast reservoir of good will where nobody is going to freak out over anything in game 2 and this org doesn't (rightfully so). But at the same time they also have expectations whereas we were a pretty heavy road dog yesterday on a day where all 15 underdogs lost. With the lens of where each organization is currently, both teams were on the doorstep of doing something impressive yesterday pulling out last minute wins on the road, both teams came up short, and imo both teams remain in similar statures to where they were entering week 2. The Pats a playoff contender looking to prove they can be a SB contender with Cam. The Giants a rebuilding team with a 2nd year QB that's looking to prove he can lead them to wins over good teams. Both were 1 play away yesterday.
these two games have been deja vu of how Giants lose games
that is the discouraging part
Perfect comment!
It's like deja vu.
Terrible offensive line play.
A quarterback who makes soul crushing turnovers the team cannot overcome.
Defense unable to get off the field on 3rd down.
Lack of talent across the board.
That's the frustration. It's not the record. (but that doesn't help)
If it was just mistakes or bad play, that's fixable. The Giants do not have as much talent as other teams. Where did the team improve in the offseason? On the OL? In the secondary? Where are the young players they've drafted you are excited about seeing play? Slayton, maybe.
And the jury is out on the most important piece. Jones continues to be what he is. Competence is his ceiling, and if he makes a couple mistakes, down goes the ship. Unless he gets better he was not worth the number 6 pick.
And while the Steelers are going to be good this year, the Bears were a third place team last year. They were begging the Giants to win that game but came within a missed, makeable field goal from winning by 10.
Now, the line is that the 49ers are injured enough for the Giants to win. That's where our hope lies. Pathetic.
Absolutely balling out? They were adequate. No, they didn't allow any points, but the Bears did miss a field goal. On that drive they allowed runs of 11, 10, 9, and 23 yards. They didn't force any three and outs and let the Bears run a lot of clock.
My hope is that Andrew Thomas will be a plus player at LT.
My hope is that a new, competent coaching staff can develop players like Hernandez, Engram, Dexter Lawrence, Lorenzo Carter, and other players.
I have chosen to not look for hope in wins necessarily, but in progress towards stability.
It might not be fair to Joe Judge, but fans have been dealing with this trash football since 2013. The idea that fans should find a way to bury it is odd to me.
Anyway, whatever is said on this forum doesn't change anything anyway. What you're reading is boiling over frustration, obviously. You want people to be reasonable solely because that frustration grinds on your nerves, but everyone is in the same boat.
I don’t think anyone is overly critical about Judge. This team has zero playmakers. It’s impressive really that there is no one on either side of the ball that scares anyone. They simply lack the talent to compete in the NFL. And that’s an indictment of Gettleman, Mara, Abrams, etc. Judge seems to know what he’s doing and i think 95% of this board and Giants fans in general would be fine with him picking the next GM/player personnel.
Which will never happen bc Maras gonna Mara.
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It doesn’t help their team has been the worst team in football for the past three seasons, but I don’t understand why they are connecting those seasons to this, “same old, same old”, does not apply here, totally new regime.
Mostly new. DG is still the GM, and int that changes the Giants will not be anything more than mediocre
I’d settle for mediocre. Right now we are a laughingstock.
Well, that's on the man making these picks, Mr. Gettleman.
DL is very good. For three guys, they create plenty of pressure.
Our linebackers are - as a group - finally passable.
Now, we're stuck with a 6th round pick and a 7th round retread as our #2 and #3 corners. Maybe this is why Graham is scared to blitz.
JJ can't worry about what has happened here the previous eight years. He has to do this his own way and I am willing to see what he has to offer.
Dave Gettleman can't worry about what has happend from 2012-thru 2017, but he's been the GM for three years now and if the team finishes this season without the arrow pointing up and the franchise feeling it's on the right track, he needs to step down.
I'd also say that if JJ looks to be the part of a coach that's going to be here a long time, they should give strong consideration to who he wants to work with.
- Against the Steelers SB and Dion Lewis rushed (the top 2 RBs in carries) rushed 16 times for 6 yards. .4 yards a carry. Melvin Gordon and Royce Freeman rushed 22 times for 90 yards or 4.1 yards a carry. The Broncos aren’t some rushing juggernaut. It was talked about as if the Steelers were just too good. We have the #4 pick at LT, a 2nd round pick at G, and the 3rd highest paid G in the league. Not to mention a RB we took #2 who was supposedly touched by the hand of god. This was a point of emphasis for DG and our line just shouldn’t be looking this pathetic. It’s nothing short of an extreme disappointment.
- the DL where we have a first round pick, a second round pick, a 3rd round pick and a franchise tagged player we traded a 3rd and 4th round pick for as well at the 10th highest paid ILB and run stuffing specialist. We still got gashed by the Steelers and their backup RB and then the Bears who have not been particularly impressive rushing the ball or on offense generally. Especially with the game on the line and us knowing the running attack was coming we still couldn’t do anything.
That is the problem and it’s been the problem, people want to point to all these individual players and defend individual moves when the bottom line is the things we have focused on fixing haven’t been even remotely fixed. AND we spent such significant resources attempting to fix those problems that we’ve under-allocated in other areas. I’m not sure we are even above average at any of the main 4 phases of the game pass / run, offense / defense. Regardless, there is plenty of reason to be disappointed in seeing things we have been trying hard to improve still look so bad even if we were expected a bad overall team.
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In comment 14979732 joeinpa said:
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It doesn’t help their team has been the worst team in football for the past three seasons, but I don’t understand why they are connecting those seasons to this, “same old, same old”, does not apply here, totally new regime.
Mostly new. DG is still the GM, and int that changes the Giants will not be anything more than mediocre
I’d settle for mediocre. Right now we are a laughingstock.
Mediocre is the ceiling with DG
There are several things that posters just overlook or assume away. For example, it is assumed the Jones is a franchise qb. We haven't seen enough of him one way or another to make that determination. He looks better in terms of pocket awareness, but he has a penchant for game changing turnovers. He may only ever be a Qb that flashes greatness in spurts and then makes game changing mistakes. That is not a franchise qb and probably someone destined as a backup in the league. No one wants to face the reality that if Jones isn't the answer, the Giants are a long, long way from competitive championship level football.
I also question the wisdom of building a modern NFL offense around a running back. We are witnessing after two plus seasons why this doesn't work. I also question building a modern NFL defense around run stuffing defensive tackles. The league favors teams that can attack a defense through the air and generate a pass rush without blitzing. It seemed like DG was building a 1980s style football team.
So while the regimes may be changed, I can understand the perception that the franchise hasn't changed and still appears lost.
- Against the Steelers SB and Dion Lewis rushed (the top 2 RBs in carries) rushed 16 times for 6 yards. .4 yards a carry. Melvin Gordon and Royce Freeman rushed 22 times for 90 yards or 4.1 yards a carry. The Broncos aren’t some rushing juggernaut. It was talked about as if the Steelers were just too good. We have the #4 pick at LT, a 2nd round pick at G, and the 3rd highest paid G in the league. Not to mention a RB we took #2 who was supposedly touched by the hand of god. This was a point of emphasis for DG and our line just shouldn’t be looking this pathetic. It’s nothing short of an extreme disappointment.
- the DL where we have a first round pick, a second round pick, a 3rd round pick and a franchise tagged player we traded a 3rd and 4th round pick for as well at the 10th highest paid ILB and run stuffing specialist. We still got gashed by the Steelers and their backup RB and then the Bears who have not been particularly impressive rushing the ball or on offense generally. Especially with the game on the line and us knowing the running attack was coming we still couldn’t do anything.
That is the problem and it’s been the problem, people want to point to all these individual players and defend individual moves when the bottom line is the things we have focused on fixing haven’t been even remotely fixed. AND we spent such significant resources attempting to fix those problems that we’ve under-allocated in other areas. I’m not sure we are even above average at any of the main 4 phases of the game pass / run, offense / defense. Regardless, there is plenty of reason to be disappointed in seeing things we have been trying hard to improve still look so bad even if we were expected a bad overall team.
We are 2 games into an entire new coaching staff and a fucked preseason in which we played ZERO games. The OL has 3 players on it, one of them NEVER having played professional games before and another entirely new to the center position(fucking hard position) and a journeyman RT.
It isn't even close to Apples to Oranges on the Broncos vs us.
Ownership said they were not expecting anything more than improvement by year's end.
Those are the people cutting the paychecks.
What don't you get?
This may be strange but maybe the thing that most disappointed me yesterday was the way the Giants front 7 wilted beneath the Bears rushing attack in the 4th quarter yesterday. I think that's what ultimately lost us the game. That front 7 was playing well through much of the game and at crunch time, got beaten.
This may be strange but maybe the thing that most disappointed me yesterday was the way the Giants front 7 wilted beneath the Bears rushing attack in the 4th quarter yesterday. I think that's what ultimately lost us the game. That front 7 was playing well through much of the game and at crunch time, got beaten.
I am actually encouraged. We were competitive in both games.
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thread.
This may be strange but maybe the thing that most disappointed me yesterday was the way the Giants front 7 wilted beneath the Bears rushing attack in the 4th quarter yesterday. I think that's what ultimately lost us the game. That front 7 was playing well through much of the game and at crunch time, got beaten.
We had the ball in our hands inside the 20 with time remaining on the clock. We are game 2 of rebuild with no preseason games. We lost our best played for the season early and the team didn't quit.
I am actually encouraged. We were competitive in both games.
I'm encouraged too, and unlike most here I think we have a lot of young talent. Its just young, it needs to mature and learn how to win.
There are several things that posters just overlook or assume away. For example, it is assumed the Jones is a franchise qb. We haven't seen enough of him one way or another to make that determination. He looks better in terms of pocket awareness, but he has a penchant for game changing turnovers. He may only ever be a Qb that flashes greatness in spurts and then makes game changing mistakes. That is not a franchise qb and probably someone destined as a backup in the league. No one wants to face the reality that if Jones isn't the answer, the Giants are a long, long way from competitive championship level football.
I also question the wisdom of building a modern NFL offense around a running back. We are witnessing after two plus seasons why this doesn't work. I also question building a modern NFL defense around run stuffing defensive tackles. The league favors teams that can attack a defense through the air and generate a pass rush without blitzing. It seemed like DG was building a 1980s style football team.
So while the regimes may be changed, I can understand the perception that the franchise hasn't changed and still appears lost.
*Applauds*
Andrew Thomas was playing his first game and was our best offensive lineman. What does that say about our team? When we have the 3rd highest paid G in the league looking like a JAG.
Problem with LW is that we have a garbage players at C and RT and many calling this out as a problem along the way. That is an extreme over-allocation to DL. Keeping that pick having no LW and putting the LW money into overall depth and having a 3rd round C in our lineup. Our team looks better IMO.
And again, it can't be said enough that despite this over-allocation to stopping the run (Blake Martinez included in that, in addition to our massive allocations to draft picks on the DL) we STILL can't stop the run.
You are missing my point. Struggling this year was going to happen. You can't put so much work into specific areas and still not be good at them. That is what's unacceptable.
And it's you that's being dumb if you can't see how that is unacceptable.
Andrew Thomas was playing his first game and was our best offensive lineman. What does that say about our team? When we have the 3rd highest paid G in the league looking like a JAG.
Problem with LW is that we have a garbage players at C and RT and many calling this out as a problem along the way. That is an extreme over-allocation to DL. Keeping that pick having no LW and putting the LW money into overall depth and having a 3rd round C in our lineup. Our team looks better IMO.
And again, it can't be said enough that despite this over-allocation to stopping the run (Blake Martinez included in that, in addition to our massive allocations to draft picks on the DL) we STILL can't stop the run.
You are missing my point. Struggling this year was going to happen. You can't put so much work into specific areas and still not be good at them. That is what's unacceptable.
And it's you that's being dumb if you can't see how that is unacceptable.
Yes, I know he's playing well, but see NoGainDayne's post slightly above this one for an explanation.
Gettleman's whiffed a lot in free agency and his strategic moves just haven't been right.
And I hate to bring this up again, and it's not to do with Gettleman, but really, in OT against Washington, just fumble the frickin' ball near our own goal line and you got the #2 draft pick and Chase Young.
If we add a franchise player to our team via trade and pair him with a 1st round pick, a 2nd round pick and a 3rd round pick that rotates in. Bring in the 10th highest paid ILB and run stopping specialist, seeing improvement in this area is important. It doesn't need to be overall but this is absolutely the area we should be seeing improvement in, even if others are lagging.
RE: Saquon, we use the #2 pick in the draft on him and 3 seasons later we are still saying he doesn't have any room to run. When this was a point of emphasis for the GM. Not saying it won't change either, just saying it's already unacceptable that this is the case.