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This board and their perception of this team.

PetesHereNow : 9/20/2020 11:46 pm
First of all, when we knew there was finally going to be a season, a lot of the threads said something to the effect of:

“We have a tough schedule. With the limited practice time and the new coaching staff, we will likely struggle in the beginning of the season. As long as we play good football by the end of the year, the results won’t matter to me as I am not expecting much as far as a good record.”

They play the Steelers fairly well. Could have won if some plays went in our favor. They then throw up a first half stinker vs. the Bears. Didn’t help that Barkley got hurt. But they fight back and make it a close game down to the final play. Come up short and I come on here and some of you are saying we’re going 0-16.

Well, don’t you remember what you said just last month? Yes, it sucks SB got hurt. But some of your perceptions are just off. The team will improve as they have a chance to work together. I find it very doubtful we won’t play better football and get some wins going forward.

After all, most of you probably had SF down as a sure loss and half their stars got hurt today. This is the NFL as we know it.
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Yep  
BlackLight : 9/21/2020 12:02 am : link
People are screeching about the team going 0-2, when three weeks ago, you couldn't find a single person who thought our best case scenario was more than seven wins. Between the fucked up offseason and the 100% turnover in the coaching ranks, there was never any reason to expect much to applaud.

Considering that people were suggesting Judge was going to have a mutiny on his hands for making players run laps (gasp!), I think the fact that the team has shown it's got pride and is willing to play hard is a good sign. And as far as Judge, nothing stands out to me as an example of poor game management.

Things will get better.
I had the Giants at 0 -4 to start  
SGMen : 9/21/2020 12:06 am : link
Tough schedule, tough teams, new system, so much against us to begin.

I am disappointed in D. Jones for his turnovers. However, it is two games in a new system so I'll hold out hope he gains momentum and executes better.

Losing Barkley sucks but D. Lewis is talented and can hold the fort.

We are in the division race after two games. Lets see if we can beat the 49'ers who are banged up and get on track. It is a real shame Dallas came back today. That is the NFL, comebacks are real.
RE: Yep  
Mdgiantsfan : 9/21/2020 12:09 am : link
In comment 14979645 BlackLight said:
Quote:
People are screeching about the team going 0-2, when three weeks ago, you couldn't find a single person who thought our best case scenario was more than seven wins. Between the fucked up offseason and the 100% turnover in the coaching ranks, there was never any reason to expect much to applaud.

Considering that people were suggesting Judge was going to have a mutiny on his hands for making players run laps (gasp!), I think the fact that the team has shown it's got pride and is willing to play hard is a good sign. And as far as Judge, nothing stands out to me as an example of poor game management.

Things will get better.


Since you all have no expectation for much success this year, when do you expect this team to start getting Ws? 2021?
RE: RE: Yep  
PetesHereNow : 9/21/2020 12:20 am : link
In comment 14979650 Mdgiantsfan said:
Quote:
In comment 14979645 BlackLight said:


Quote:


People are screeching about the team going 0-2, when three weeks ago, you couldn't find a single person who thought our best case scenario was more than seven wins. Between the fucked up offseason and the 100% turnover in the coaching ranks, there was never any reason to expect much to applaud.

Considering that people were suggesting Judge was going to have a mutiny on his hands for making players run laps (gasp!), I think the fact that the team has shown it's got pride and is willing to play hard is a good sign. And as far as Judge, nothing stands out to me as an example of poor game management.

Things will get better.



Since you all have no expectation for much success this year, when do you expect this team to start getting Ws? 2021?


Personally I hope for decent football this year. A good draft and a good FA period and we should be ready to compete for the division next season, assuming some young players take steps forward.
Sometimes... It just sucks to be right  
Route 9 : 9/21/2020 12:21 am : link
...
Here's what I think  
Daniel in MI : 9/21/2020 12:22 am : link
1) We may go 0-4, it's a rough schedule for a team with a new coach, new starters at 3/5 OL positions, new systems, no preseason, etc.

2) We may yet win 6-8 games. I think this trial by fire will pay dividends. We're getting 4 straight tests. We haven't passed yet, but at least we're not getting blown out. I thought Pitt might be more like 35-10, and this week we took it to the final play.

3) I think the OL will take time to gel. I think punching in that TD was a big boost today, you could see them play better after that.

4) I think we lack the horses still to go much beyond 6-8 wins. Specifically: DE, WR, RB (now), OLB, and CB.

5) So far, I think DJ is improving slowly. He threw at least 2 balls away today instead of forcing it. His 1 pick was at least in part an EE slip. He's got to reduce pumping it and secure it better, continue to feel pressure and get the ball out. But, let's be fair, he's had virtually no run game, and WRs are not getting much seperation. So, he's under pressure fitting it into tight windows. This adversity will help as he develops. He's going to have to carry this team.

6) Losing SB is a negative. He's a home run hitter. BUT, I will say I wonder if having a guy who will just take the 2-3 tough yards might help the OL. They're trying to gel, are most impacted by no pre-season, and while SB can hit a HR on any play, it might be short term helpful who will have a guy just jam it up where the play was called to go. You could see how fired up they were after the TD on 4th and G.

7) We've had the WORST RECORD IN THE NFL OVER 3 YEARS. We weren't going to come out and shove Pitt off the ball and scare the Bears. What I want to see is improvement. The main ? for me is what is this team in Dec.

8) There are no moral victories. But, the real win today were the friends we made along the way.
I like 8 especially. I like you guys.  
Route 9 : 9/21/2020 12:25 am : link
I consider some of you my (way) older brothers. See you on the trading floor. 9:30 am sharp.
RE: RE: Yep  
BlackLight : 9/21/2020 12:30 am : link
In comment 14979650 Mdgiantsfan said:
Quote:

Since you all have no expectation for much success this year, when do you expect this team to start getting Ws? 2021?


I adjust my expectations as we go along. What if something crazy happens, like we lose Saquon Barkley to injury? Wouldn't a rational person adjust their expectations in such a case?
..  
broadbandz : 9/21/2020 3:26 am : link
Jones is on pace to set the all time turnover record
0-2 might have been expected....even 0-4, 0-5 even but  
George from PA : 9/21/2020 3:55 am : link
So far, the teams they played were not as good as we expected, but yet they still lossed.

SF without Bosa and losing to Az is another team....just not playing as well as we think they are.....

The Giants are becoming the team everyone gets better....

Neither Pittsburgh nor the Bears deserved wins....

Now without Barkley...gives them even less weapons....not exactly going in the right direction

Snakebit.....I am just getting tired of it.
If not for the Bears’ fluke 4th down “completion,”  
CT Charlie : 9/21/2020 6:40 am : link
we would have started our final drive with four minutes to go (Instead of 2:02) and all of our timeouts.
I knew the team would struggle this year. The roster always sucked.  
The_Boss : 9/21/2020 7:09 am : link
But Jones is concerning. Ok he’s stronger and his balls look like they have more zip to them, but the turnovers and just awful pocket awareness continue to afflict him. The awareness thing worries me most because I think it’s one of those deals which can’t be taught. You either have it or not.
The key to the season  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/21/2020 7:20 am : link
is progress that leads to wins. The NFL has a lot of parity. Injuries can quickly turn a leading team to mediocre in a blink. Many of the games come down to the fourth quarter. Coaching is huge. Preparation and then execution leads to wins. Hoping Judge shows he gets the team to this process of winning.

Right now my attention is on Jones and the OL. No single stat is more important than winning the turnover battle. We will never be a good team with Jones turning the ball over 2 plus times a game imo. Hoping that the OL becomes a strong point at the end with the team having its starters identified. Defense has been average but I was hoping for more from the DL with the money and resources spent.
Eric summed it up last week.  
mittenedman : 9/21/2020 7:26 am : link
The Giants hit the re-set button again. We can call it year 3 of a rebuild but they nuked everything when they hired Judge.

Just because we'd like Jones to be a winning QB by now doesn't mean it will be. New schemes on all sides with almost zero in person interaction before the abbreviated camp & distraction of corona.

We should be looking for baby steps. Such as the OL taking a step forward. As great a player as Barkley is, the Giants developing a good OLine is far more important than Barkley.
First  
joeinpa : 9/21/2020 7:52 am : link
RB is one of the easier positions to replace on a football team.

I mentioned when Barkley was drafted, he is a big play back, not really a move the chains guy, he s a home run hitter. He will now be replaced by lesser backs, but not incompetent

As to fans, some are just wired in a way that they can’t see past the last bad play or loss; they project going forward based on the bad they have just seen.

It doesn’t help their team has been the worst team in football for the past three seasons, but I don’t understand why they are connecting those seasons to this, “same old, same old”, does not apply here, totally new regime.

My expectations, I ve felt all along, they will continue to improve and at some pt have a winning streak in the process beating some teams you didn’t think they would beat.

For me, I don’t feel the hopelessness of being a bad team with an older quarterback whose best days are behind him, It s a young team with a young quarterback, whose potential is as yet unknown, but there is a chance, a real chance, he s going to get better.

Turnovers were a problem for Phil Simms and Eli as well, but there was greatness there as well
I think the majority of posters did project around 6 or 7 wins  
LBH15 : 9/21/2020 7:54 am : link
a month ago. Speaking for myself though, my 6 win projection included having Saquon Barkley around for the season and some improvement in Daniel Jones taking care of the ball better. Now?

More specifically to the game, it was just disheartening for this team to come out and get shut out 17-0 to this Bear team in the first half. They couldn't stop the run, Trubisky was throwing awful, wobbly ducks that still found open receivers, not getting off the field on third down, no running game as SB gets hurt and Jones with an awful fumble in the pocket yet again.

Glad they pulled it together and made it a game in the second half but it was mostly due to Trubisky errors, not NYG stellar play.

I wish I could feel better about the season and its only mid-Sept.

OP  
mpinmaine : 9/21/2020 7:57 am : link
Im glad you made this thread.
Yesterday was hard to swallow and not simply because we are again 0-2 but SB going down hurts.

That being said I think they will be OK, getting better as the season rolls on.

2020 can only last so long
This franchise is 12-38 in their last 50 games  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/21/2020 8:00 am : link
Stop pretending to not understand why fans don't have patience at this point.
Fans need to display patience because literally  
cosmicj : 9/21/2020 8:05 am : link
No one thought this was a talented winning team before the season began. If you want to get mad any way and make yourself unhappy, go for it. Or you can be reasonable and look for signs of progress about 23 months since a rebuild was initiated.
RE: This franchise is 12-38 in their last 50 games  
UConn4523 : 9/21/2020 8:15 am : link
In comment 14979741 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Stop pretending to not understand why fans don't have patience at this point.


What’s the alternative? Serious question by the way.

It sucks watching this team the last few years but I have 2 options - deal with it and watch or deal with it and don’t watch. It’s no different than any other fan base of a shitty team.
They haven’t played fairly well  
Justlurking : 9/21/2020 8:18 am : link
The team lacks talent. The “stars” have underperformed. They are a bad franchise that has largely squandered an incredible amount of draft capital the past three years and are in permanent rebuild mode. Jones is a turnover machine, Saquon is already done for the season. We still owe the Jets another draft pick for Leonard Williams - who accounts for almost 10% of the team’s salary cap. Do people watch other teams? The talent difference is astonishing. We have a bunch of slot receivers who can’t get open a bunch of linemen that can’t block.

The entire “team building” plan was flawed and now we have yet another 0-2 start and lost season. The Maras are still too involved in player personnel. This franchise is the laughingstock of the NFL. There is no reason for any positivity, except it looks like the Head Coach may know what he’s doing as the team seems to play hard for him. But we’ll see how his act works when they’re 0-5.
RE: Eric summed it up last week.  
Justlurking : 9/21/2020 8:19 am : link
In comment 14979719 mittenedman said:
Quote:
The Giants hit the re-set button again. We can call it year 3 of a rebuild but they nuked everything when they hired Judge.

Just because we'd like Jones to be a winning QB by now doesn't mean it will be. New schemes on all sides with almost zero in person interaction before the abbreviated camp & distraction of corona.

We should be looking for baby steps. Such as the OL taking a step forward. As great a player as Barkley is, the Giants developing a good OLine is far more important than Barkley.


They did not nuke everything until Gettleman is gone.
“This board” didn’t have a single perception  
Mike from Ohio : 9/21/2020 8:41 am : link
Of this team. And Irvin if it did, I am not sure why that opinion can’t evolve over time as additional facts are gathered. Two games have been played and opinions evolve. Some are knee jerk reactions and over the top. Again, that is not “the board’s” opinion.

There were pre-season opinions here ranging from “we can make the playoffs” to “0-16, fire everyone.” The people who were more bearish on the team post more when things are bad, and the people who are bullish on the team post more when things are good. There has been no massive change in fan opinion.
I like Jones  
NoPeanutz : 9/21/2020 8:56 am : link
and before the season, I predicted 4-12 (last year I predicted 5-11 and they failed at that). Now without Barkley, and another year with zero production from the OL, I just don't see where the wins are coming from. That's the thing about being one of the worst. There are so few teams that you can claim to lord over. 0-16 is very much in play to my eye.
I'm certainly not surprised, and I'm not even upset about it- this is the year we knew we would be facing.
But waiting years to just suck a little bit less is becoming exhausting.
Serious questions. I am baffled by what people were expecting.  
Johnny5 : 9/21/2020 8:58 am : link
How long do people think it takes for coaches to implement a new system? How long before Players are really comfortable with and can really use an arsenal of different plays out of different formations cleanly and effectively?

How long before an OL should gel with 3 new players and a new coaching staff and scheme?

And don' even use this COVID preseason as an example. Consider we had a normal preseason with 4 preseason games.

What's a realistic timeframe for us to see a well oiled team?

Maybe I'm wrong.... but I think it is way, WAY too early to be destroying this team the way everyone is right now. Am I pissed that we are 0-2 again? Yeah of course. But I expected this. And I expected to be unsure of what we really have now for like at least half of this season. I am actually shocked that we have been as competitive as we have been so far.
What is 'fan' short for?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/21/2020 9:00 am : link
Fanatic. The very word removes the expectation of reason.

It might not be fair to Joe Judge, but fans have been dealing with this trash football since 2013. The idea that fans should find a way to bury it is odd to me.

Anyway, whatever is said on this forum doesn't change anything anyway. What you're reading is boiling over frustration, obviously. You want people to be reasonable solely because that frustration grinds on your nerves, but everyone is in the same boat.
RE: RE: This franchise is 12-38 in their last 50 games  
christian : 9/21/2020 9:01 am : link
In comment 14979753 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 14979741 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


Stop pretending to not understand why fans don't have patience at this point.



What’s the alternative? Serious question by the way.

It sucks watching this team the last few years but I have 2 options - deal with it and watch or deal with it and don’t watch. It’s no different than any other fan base of a shitty team.


Practically, I’ve spent zero dollars directly on the team in at least 5 years. Previously I would get to 2-3 games a year, and probably spend another $200 a year on gear as gifts. So I think there is that. When the Giants are better and worth watching, I’ll probably spend again.

I still love live football. I just moved out of the area, but would come back for games if they were worth it. When I lived in CA I would visit most Falls to catch a Giants and Yankees game. The Giants sucking has definitely put a damper on that.
RE: First  
Scooter185 : 9/21/2020 9:02 am : link
In comment 14979732 joeinpa said:
Quote:

It doesn’t help their team has been the worst team in football for the past three seasons, but I don’t understand why they are connecting those seasons to this, “same old, same old”, does not apply here, totally new regime.


Mostly new. DG is still the GM, and int that changes the Giants will not be anything more than mediocre
RE: What is 'fan' short for?  
Johnny5 : 9/21/2020 9:04 am : link
In comment 14979814 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Fanatic. The very word removes the expectation of reason.

It might not be fair to Joe Judge, but fans have been dealing with this trash football since 2013. The idea that fans should find a way to bury it is odd to me.

Anyway, whatever is said on this forum doesn't change anything anyway. What you're reading is boiling over frustration, obviously. You want people to be reasonable solely because that frustration grinds on your nerves, but everyone is in the same boat.

Good points TTH.
Maybe, just maybe  
figgy2989 : 9/21/2020 9:04 am : link
Some fans are sick of the losing?
the problem  
giantfan2000 : 9/21/2020 9:05 am : link
the problem is this team so far has been like every other Giant team the past few years

these two games have been deja vu of how Giants lose games

that is the discouraging part

I'm sick of watching complete & utter trash.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/21/2020 9:05 am : link
This franchise has been a clown show for years. YEARS. I'm sick of the season being over before freaking Columbus Day.
This team is different...  
Dnew15 : 9/21/2020 9:13 am : link
than the past two years (or even the past 5 years) as they have not been part of any "re-build"...Giants fans were sold a bill of goods like it was - it wasn't.
The talent problem remains  
JonC : 9/21/2020 9:14 am : link
They're playing hard and giving it their best, but they're overmatched out there.
RE: The talent problem remains  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/21/2020 9:15 am : link
In comment 14979842 JonC said:
Quote:
They're playing hard and giving it their best, but they're overmatched out there.


& where the fault lay for that? With the GM. Isn't the point of being GM to build up a talented team?
Don’t completely buy the “Giants hit the reset button”  
BillT : 9/21/2020 9:22 am : link
Yes, of course with the coaching staff but this staff has significantly better talent than Shurmur had. Better DL, better secondary, better LB, better players on the OL, Jones in his second year. I’m much more optimistic than most but these losses are what was expected. And I think for this team there are moral victories.
They hit the reset button in terms of  
JonC : 9/21/2020 9:25 am : link
teaching new systems on both sides of the ball from scratch, with very little offseason to install them. They're basically still doing so each week in between games, it's a big learning experience underway.

In terms of the talent, while I see some young guys doing more and Thomas looks the part, they still have a handful of key holes yet to be filled. This is where another crop of high draft picks and hopefully some impact additions via UFA will help progress.
We have to STOP saying “and now Barkley” is gone  
NJLCO : 9/21/2020 9:27 am : link
This team has limited talent at the skill positions be it youth or just bad players. EE is a perfect example as well as Shep and DJ. We would need for all 3 to play over their skill sets at this time to be successful. None of them on a consistent basis has done so to date. Each year it’s Groundhog Day being a Giant fan.
Is this entertainment for some of you  
Knineteen : 9/21/2020 9:30 am : link
or a dependency?

The same result over 8 years. The same wrote responses for 8 years. The same delusional belief system for 8 years.
RE: “This board” didn’t have a single perception  
GManinDC : 9/21/2020 9:30 am : link
In comment 14979786 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
Of this team. And Irvin if it did, I am not sure why that opinion can’t evolve over time as additional facts are gathered. Two games have been played and opinions evolve. Some are knee jerk reactions and over the top. Again, that is not “the board’s” opinion.

There were pre-season opinions here ranging from “we can make the playoffs” to “0-16, fire everyone.” The people who were more bearish on the team post more when things are bad, and the people who are bullish on the team post more when things are good. There has been no massive change in fan opinion.



This is spot on. Some people perception hasn't changed.

Hard to for an opinion based on a few soundbites, interviews, and limited clips of plays. especially with a pandemic and new staff.

I am not sure how anyone could be surprised about anything this season. It was more hope than anything else..
.  
Gruber : 9/21/2020 9:31 am : link
The one positive I can take from the season so far is Joe Judge. I'm pretty certain he's the real deal. Right now he and Kamala Harris are my heroes, they are the future. We'll get through this.........eventually.
But he has inherited a poor group of players, let's not kid ourselves.
.  
Gruber : 9/21/2020 9:35 am : link
I should add: we need to get Gettleman out of the building. The Leonard Williams trade just isn't one you make when you are in the position the Giants are in. It doesn't make sense. You should be accumulating draft capital, get more picks.
And the strategy of taking a running back with the #2 over all pick just blew up in Gettleman's face. The front office got it wrong big time in thinking that this team were close to competing, that Eli had one more great season left in him.
Sadly  
Carson53 : 9/21/2020 9:36 am : link
they have become a losing organization, they can't seem
to get it right. They also don't know how to win games.
They are trying with a new coaching staff, but they have
so far to go. Their margin for error on the field is
razor thin to win games. That's why people like Jones,
have to minimize mistakes, instead of making them every week.
People get emotional right after a game  
Biteymax22 : 9/21/2020 9:42 am : link
and tend to go to the extremes with their thinking. So losses mean 0-16 and a win yesterday would have had us at 15-1....

The reality is the majority of this site knows we aren't a playoff team and having a new coach with an unusual off season meant we weren't likely to "gel" until later in the season.

I for one thought we were a 6-7 win team, but also thought we'd win yesterday so maybe I didn't take my own advice but I'm still staying with my 6-7 win prediction. This team will be better on week 10 than we are now. You can see the signs of better coaching.
...  
christian : 9/21/2020 9:43 am : link
Effort hasn’t been an issue for any team aside from 2017. The tail end of Coughlin, one year of McAdoo, and the Shurmur years were all high effort low talent. The most talented team in that era was arguably 2017.

I see a young team piecing it together, that really looks better drive to drive. I also see a team you could predict would have major issues at center, right tackle, inside linebacker, corner, and WR depth.

In my view no number of practices, preseasons games, and years of coaching is going to make a winner when relying on guys like Gates, Downs, Fleming, Ballentine, Ebner, Yiadom, Board, Ratley. Have to kick the floor level talent up a notch.
my perception  
ryanmkeane : 9/21/2020 9:44 am : link
of the team: we have a new coach, new offensive system, new defensive system, a QB playing his 14th game coming up, in a year where we had no preseason games and very few practices. oh, and we just lost our most talented player. Our defense looks miles better than it has been in recent years. Our OL needs to gel, but we finally have a highly touted LT who looks like the goods. Our playmakers can't stay healthy. It's going to be a long and trying season but I'm going to look for bright spots as we rebuild knowing that we aren't making the playoffs this year but are going to be competitive. That's my perception.
Gruber  
ryanmkeane : 9/21/2020 9:45 am : link
Leonard Williams looks like one of our best defensive players right now. I wouldn't say that's the reason to get DG out.
even though the run defense tired  
ryanmkeane : 9/21/2020 9:48 am : link
late in the 2nd half, defense was absolutely balling out for that entire half. Let's bring that energy to week 3, with more improvement from the OL, and get a win.
I understand the OP's point  
Dinger : 9/21/2020 9:51 am : link
but my perception vacillates between understanding where this team is at and being sick of constantly losing and being excited for very minor accomplishments. I like how Judge(and his staff) seems to have this team ready or is able to make adjustments and how he deals with the media. I like that they are 'teachers'. I like that the 1st round pick this year seems to be doing ok. But longer term picture is as a fan its been how many years starting 0 and 2. Its been 7 years with one blip mixed in there of lousy football. Its an injury to the 2nd pick in the draft touched by the hand of god RB after having a bunch of lousy 1st rounders not pan out. It would just be nice to get back to winning a few games and then maybe a few in a row. But realistically, i don't think this team will get their first victory until mid to late october. You've got no white knight coming in to be a decent edge rusher, we have one decent CB and safety play has been about the same for the last 7 years. I like our 1st round pick from this year and think this line may gel, but who knows if it will be before Jones gets hurt. We basically have Slayton as our last remaining above average 'weapon' on offense with all the injuries so far. So the season just went to DVR mode for me, partly because of kids soccer season, but mostly because I can't waste this beautiful time of year watching ugly football.
the thing I don't understand about yesterday is  
Eric on Li : 9/21/2020 9:55 am : link
that if Jones and Tate connect on the last pass, this place is euphoric and Judge would have been anointed both on here and in the media (extremely prematurely btw). Ok I kind of get it because sports are emotional, but as the OP suggests, it seemed like people were pretty sober about this team even before Barkley went down the way he did.

Wins are wins and losses are loss, so yes I do understand the incredible difference between those 2 outcomes as success and failure. But let's look at a similar situation with other teams where logic can prevail over emotion - the Pats and Belicheck lost in a similar fashion, attempting to come back on the road vs. a good defense that's now 2-0. You can be certain there are no moral victories there because they know 1 play is the difference between a ring or no ring, but objectively I think we can all look at that for what it was and say they were in position to win, played a good game, and there's a positive for them to build on with Cam stepping up. Had they won it would have been as ballsy an achievement as you can expected in week 2, and perhaps the positive is that they will win that game next time as the coaches get more in sync with Cam's skillset.

Obviously the Pats have a vast reservoir of good will where nobody is going to freak out over anything in game 2 and this org doesn't (rightfully so). But at the same time they also have expectations whereas we were a pretty heavy road dog yesterday on a day where all 15 underdogs lost. With the lens of where each organization is currently, both teams were on the doorstep of doing something impressive yesterday pulling out last minute wins on the road, both teams came up short, and imo both teams remain in similar statures to where they were entering week 2. The Pats a playoff contender looking to prove they can be a SB contender with Cam. The Giants a rebuilding team with a 2nd year QB that's looking to prove he can lead them to wins over good teams. Both were 1 play away yesterday.
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