Weird thing about Barkley's knee injury

it before the tackle. Non-contact.

It def buckled when he put all that pressure on it. He’s a tough hard runner. He isn’t a soft footed back. When he plants and cuts that’s a ton of force. His overall strength in his quads and hamstrings will help his recovery. I’m far far far from ready to call this kid done. He’ll come back strong. He’s a rare breed in the Edgerin James and AP mold. I expect him back ready to go week 1 of 2021

they way the right foot landed on that last step by the sideline and then the right knee just collapsed. You can see the knee buckle in slow motion

but unfortunately they seem to know just from examining a player these days...
hoping it isn't but expecting it to be.
I think he hurt it before the tackle it looks like..

Maybe they can put bionics in it

It can just be too much stress on the ligament.

With the muscularity if SB’s legs, he probably puts a lot of stress on his ligaments

on the field is like 97% accurate. Not sure the exact % but it's pretty accurate.... As soon as the trainers got there, they pretty much already know if it's an ACL.

looked like his right knee landed strangely. Almost as if it was unstable.

I don't purport to know anything about orthopedics or the structure of the knee, but it stands to reason an ACL that's slightly weakened to begin with won't need as much force/torsion to completely tear with the next insult.

out of 100 bad things, Barkley should start 2021 season at 24 years old with less than 500 carries on the resume.

In comment 14979799 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:

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it before the tackle. Non-contact.

This. It was 2 steps before he fell. But still no twisting.

The pain doesn't come from the ligament tearing itself. There aren't any nerve endings in the ligament, so the pain they experience usually comes from the bones banging together as the knee comes out of alignment.

In comment 14979827 regulator said:

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looked like his right knee landed strangely. Almost as if it was unstable. I don't purport to know anything about orthopedics or the structure of the knee, but it stands to reason an ACL that's slightly weakened to begin with won't need as much force/torsion to completely tear with the next insult.

That's generally how it happens in the non contact injuries. Something happens to initially hurt the stability of the knee and then putting full force on it there goes the ligament.

Ligaments take a long time to strengthen. It's often why you see guys that put a ton of weight on get injured there.

When he hurt his wrist, he took a hard shot in the knee. I wonder if that is when the damage was done.

but when he broke the tackle before Jackson engaged him closer to the sideline, there already appeared to be an issue with the wheel.

In comment 14979827 regulator said:

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looked like his right knee landed strangely. Almost as if it was unstable.

I agree... I thought he actually hurt it on the prior play and he was trying to play through it

ACL has been confirmed. What we need to hold out hope for is that it is only an ACL. Makes the chances for a complete recovery a lot more promising. Add in damage to the MCL, the meniscus or even the kneecap and then things get a lot more dicey

can’t do anything but root like hell for the kid to come back fresh in 2021

and felt it pop-knew right away.

I think its better to be a clean tear than partial, which can take more time and present healing complications.

The next big decision is which graft to choose. Cadaver, hamstring or patella tendon. All have positives and negatives. Adrian Peterson used patella as did i, and i regret the decision.

He hurt his elbow. Go back and watch that play, he landed awkwardly on that knee.

Next play when he tried to cut, he finished the job.

Not sure I really agree. Maybe we go from a 5/6 win team to a 3 win team, but this was an incredibly flawed roster with Barkey.

In comment 14979903 bhill410 said:

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Not sure I really agree. Maybe we go from a 5/6 win team to a 3 win team, but this was an incredibly flawed roster with Barkey.

I think you are looking short term. Look big picture. I think that was the point.

In comment 14979859 Zeke's Alibi said:

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In comment 14979827 regulator said: Quote: looked like his right knee landed strangely. Almost as if it was unstable. I don't purport to know anything about orthopedics or the structure of the knee, but it stands to reason an ACL that's slightly weakened to begin with won't need as much force/torsion to completely tear with the next insult. That's generally how it happens in the non contact injuries. Something happens to initially hurt the stability of the knee and then putting full force on it there goes the ligament. Ligaments take a long time to strengthen. It's often why you see guys that put a ton of weight on get injured there.

+2.

Not the kind of play where that usually happens.

I was thinking maybe he did something against the Steelers when he hurdled defenders,and that was the cause of it.

has really brought out the cuntery of a lot of posters.

In comment 14979903 bhill410 said:

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Not sure I really agree. Maybe we go from a 5/6 win team to a 3 win team, but this was an incredibly flawed roster with Barkey.

Not only changes everything this season... team was more than capable of upsetting a number of teams WITH Saquon.

But more importantly, it changes everything moving forward (2021 and beyond).

Devastating for the franchise.

during her athletic career. One came from a seemingly harmless landing after grabbing a rebound in a basketball game. The other came during a college soccer game when she was crashed into by a player from opposing team and she was in severe pain. The first rehab was by a local rehab center that specialized in ski injuries and took 10 months and she really did not recover her strength speed for two years. The second one was run through the rehab center that specializes in ACL tears for most of the Southern California colleges and university athletic programs and was very aggressive and challenging. Her recovery was about 7 months and she looked faster than she had been before. It was amazing to see the difference and the results as between the two approaches.

so the mechanism must have been pretty textbook. Here's what the former SD team dr (Chao) said almost immediately after the injury:

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Saquon Barkley Likely Out For Year - by video Saquon Barkley appeared to tear his right ACL. He took an off-balance step with his right leg and his knee buckled...it appears he tore his ACL with an associated bone bruise and or MCL sprain damage.

His knee bent inward. Classic movement to tear of the ligament.
Link - ( New Window )

is it really?

by the time the Giants have an OL that's ready to contend they'll have to pay Barkley a contract like Elliott.

Not sure that's an optimal salary cap allocation.

I am not anti-Barkley and after his rookie year felt like he is potentially the best Giants RB ever.

But not sure it's really devastating. In 2021 draft a 3rd or 4th round RB like everyone does and get production from that player. The Giants got beat back to back weeks by teams with Steelers (Snell 4th round) and Bears (David Montgomery 3rd round)

In comment 14980017 pjcas18 said:

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is it really? by the time the Giants have an OL that's ready to contend they'll have to pay Barkley a contract like Elliott. Not sure that's an optimal salary cap allocation. I am not anti-Barkley and after his rookie year felt like he is potentially the best Giants RB ever. But not sure it's really devastating. In 2021 draft a 3rd or 4th round RB like everyone does and get production from that player. The Giants got beat back to back weeks by teams with Steelers (Snell 4th round) and Bears (David Montgomery 3rd round)

It's devastating in that he's a team captain, the only gamebreaker they had, and him having a record setting season was likely the only path to overachieving this year. Similar to how OBJ had that year where he scored 3 or 4 long TD's in the 4th Q to win games.

not to mention he was 1 of the few enjoyable players who did things each week worth the price of admission. And by all accounts a great person and teammate. It would be like JDG getting injured even though the Mets aren't going anywhere.

this injury is as devastating as the Victor Cruz injury was in 2014. Practically neither was likely to change the trajectory of the franchise at those respective times but each sure did suck a lot of air out of the balloon.

to me is devastating for 2020 or beyond IMO.

emotionally sure, it sucks losing your best player, but realistically this is not going to set the franchise back IMO.

And I'm not going to revisit should the Giants have taken a RB at #2, so that's not what I mean and my comments are not about that, but if it was a QB, a pro-bowl LT, a dominant OC or a dominant edge rusher (all young on their rookie deals) I'd maybe feel like it was devastating, but a RB? No, not devastating IMO even one with the talent of Barkley.

In comment 14979845 ryanmkeane said:

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out of 100 bad things, Barkley should start 2021 season at 24 years old with less than 500 carries on the resume.

This is all we got.... man we can’t catch a fucking break this last decade or more. So many brutal injuries. I don’t care how “realistic” you are as a fan or how quick to the draw you are when it comes to condemning DG of prior mistakes by mara or coughlin or Reese, we have gotten so many brutally bad breaks here it’s just ridiculous at this point. Rebuilds tend to get derailed when the best player is hurt every year. Title runs tend to take on water when 5-6-7-8 good to great draft picks are out of the league before their 2nd contract. I know bad luck when I see it. We have been besieged here. It never ends.

In comment 14979802 mpinmaine said:

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but unfortunately they seem to know just from examining a player these days... hoping it isn't but expecting it to be. I think he hurt it before the tackle it looks like.. Maybe they can put bionics in it

Having torn my ACL, I can tell you they can tell by pulling on your leg. They can feel the resistance of the ligament. The injury stinks, Saquon will have the best of everything to get back to health. But in my mind, very few come back all the way...but hey I'm not a doctor just a past patient.

I really think the wrist injury contributed to this.
I think he was not able to push off with his left hand like he normally does and the balance was all messed up and he over compensated and put more pressure on that leg/knee then when he was tackled it tore.

In comment 14979894 Bavaro_the_Mafioso said:

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and felt it pop-knew right away. I think its better to be a clean tear than partial, which can take more time and present healing complications. The next big decision is which graft to choose. Cadaver, hamstring or patella tendon. All have positives and negatives. Adrian Peterson used patella as did i, and i regret the decision.

I did cadaver due to my age. I regret the surgery all together. I had rehabbed for 6 months before the surgery due to work restrictions. Then another 9 months after. Never the same.

In comment 14979894 Bavaro_the_Mafioso said:

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and felt it pop-knew right away. I think its better to be a clean tear than partial, which can take more time and present healing complications. The next big decision is which graft to choose. Cadaver, hamstring or patella tendon. All have positives and negatives. Adrian Peterson used patella as did i, and i regret the decision.

They won't cadaver at his age. Cadaver is usually reserved for older patients. 99% it's patellar tendon. Using the hamstring graft eliminates some explosiveness post surgery.

In comment 14980038 pjcas18 said:

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to me is devastating for 2020 or beyond IMO. emotionally sure, it sucks losing your best player, but realistically this is not going to set the franchise back IMO. And I'm not going to revisit should the Giants have taken a RB at #2, so that's not what I mean and my comments are not about that, but if it was a QB, a pro-bowl LT, a dominant OC or a dominant edge rusher (all young on their rookie deals) I'd maybe feel like it was devastating, but a RB? No, not devastating IMO even one with the talent of Barkley.

It's just however you define devastating. Jones getting injured would be more devastating, so if "devastating" is the worst adjective on your scale this isn't the worst injury we could have had and it's a level or 2 below devastating. Regardless it sucks pretty hard that there are 14 more games this year we won't get to watch what was likely the most fun guy to watch on the team.

"After he tore his ACL and MCL in December 2011, he returned in 2012 and ended his comeback season just nine yards shy of an NFL single-season record with 2,097 yards."

In comment 14980146 BH28 said:

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In comment 14979894 Bavaro_the_Mafioso said: Quote: and felt it pop-knew right away. I think its better to be a clean tear than partial, which can take more time and present healing complications. The next big decision is which graft to choose. Cadaver, hamstring or patella tendon. All have positives and negatives. Adrian Peterson used patella as did i, and i regret the decision. They won't cadaver at his age. Cadaver is usually reserved for older patients. 99% it's patellar tendon. Using the hamstring graft eliminates some explosiveness post surgery.

They used a cadaver for my Sons ACL when he was 16

In comment 14980166 montanagiant said:

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In comment 14980146 BH28 said: Quote: In comment 14979894 Bavaro_the_Mafioso said: Quote: and felt it pop-knew right away. I think its better to be a clean tear than partial, which can take more time and present healing complications. The next big decision is which graft to choose. Cadaver, hamstring or patella tendon. All have positives and negatives. Adrian Peterson used patella as did i, and i regret the decision. They won't cadaver at his age. Cadaver is usually reserved for older patients. 99% it's patellar tendon. Using the hamstring graft eliminates some explosiveness post surgery. They used a cadaver for my Sons ACL when he was 16

Taking from the patella is robbing Peter to pay Paul. I have recurring soreness 8 years after surgery.

Definetly would not mess with the hammy. Cadaver is the route i wish i went and what was recommended from doctor friends.

I thought the same thing at first, and I rewatched the replay about 20 times before I saw it. You have to look at the original video from the actual play, not the replay that they showed over and over.

Look at his final step on the video from the play in live action, and you will see his knee bend sideways. On the replay they showed over and over the angle was not best for seeing the sideways bend.

but, the injury itself isn't changing much this season. Basically, it all but ensures what was likely anyway, which is another bottom 10 finish and a high pick. Our ceiling for wins was not that high. Being overly optimistic, some were shooting for 7 wins. Realistically, looking at the schedule, 5 would have been tough with Barkley. The only way to win some of these games would be Barkley at his best. So, now they likely drop to about a 2 or 3 win team.

Where this really changes things is his next contract. The 5th year is an option, I believe. At least part of next year is likely in jeopardy with the games he does suit up for anybody's guess as to what to expect. Some of that is mental and how he reacts to the surgery and rehab. In simplest terms will he have confidence in the knee and if so, will it respond the way he expects? Those are 2 questions that can't be answered for a long while. Will we see enough next year to decide on year 5 and/or a second contract? That is the key and that is where this changes everything. 24 hours ago, there would have been no doubt as to the answers. Now, it is a legitimate question.