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Constant change of course produces crappy results-

Sean : 9/21/2020 12:50 pm
The narrative has been that the Giants fear real change and always stick within their comfort zone. Some of that is fair, but it is not the full story. There has been a ton of constant change here in recent history.

January 2014:
Coming off a 7-9 season, Gilbride is fired and replaced with McAdoo to run the offense.

January 2015:
Coming off a 6-10 season, Fewell is fired and replaced with Spags.

Early 2016:
Coughlin is replaced by McAdoo; Jerry Reese is given a blank check to buy a brand new defense.

December 2017:
Reese & McAdoo fired. Reese is fired less than 2 years after being authorized to spend all that money on defense.

January 2018:
Gettleman & Shurmur hired.

January 2020:
Judge hired; Shurmur fired.

As you can see above, there has been no stability whatsoever here. There comes a point where we need to give the franchise time to see through the plan. Like it or not, Gettleman was given the green light to draft the next franchise QB and left tackle. A lot of assets have been used on the OL and defense in the last 2 years.

The new QB has started 14 games. Hitting the reset button now makes no sense. None.

John Mara hired Joe Judge at 38 years old to build a program here. Rhule would have had the same task. As frustrating as 0-2 is, the bed is made and we actually need to give it time to see if it will work.

Regardless of what you think of Gettleman, it would be irresponsible to rip the bandaid off now and do another tear down. This is a young team and it is important to give real time to Joe Judge to develop and improve this team while building a program. Let’s see how this QB & OL look in November and December.
Who is calling for Judge to be replaced?  
Greg from LI : 9/21/2020 12:54 pm : link
Just get him a competent GM who can get him decent talent instead of the garbage roster Mr. Magoo has given him.
You  
SoZKillA : 9/21/2020 12:55 pm : link
forgot to mention Abrams and Chris Mara who deserve a lot of this blame for the franchise being in shambles. The organization not hiring a GM who had no relations to the current players and Front Office was a huge mistake that has set us back.
I think Judge will get 4/5 years minimum  
BillT : 9/21/2020 12:55 pm : link
Doubt they will make any changes before that kind of time frame.
Most all of the great coaches had losing records their first year ...  
Spider56 : 9/21/2020 12:56 pm : link
The tear down crowd is a bunch of ninkampoops who don’t have a clue about how great teams are built, and this Covid bs is an incredible hurdle ... JJ has the org on the right track and the Maras will remain committed. This is not Madden or a Fantasy league.
I'm in the Anti-Gettleman camp now  
Joey in VA : 9/21/2020 12:56 pm : link
Firmly, hopefully he retires and Judge has a hand in selecting a GM with his philosophy.
No issue with Judge,  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/21/2020 12:57 pm : link
especially this year with everything going on. The problem is-and remains-the level of talent on this team. It's just not good. It's really as simple as that. And whose job is it build a good football team? Gettleman's. And he's been here long enough to compile a resume. It ain't good.
Gettleman has become too much of the story...  
George from PA : 9/21/2020 1:00 pm : link
The key...is the organization has changed how things are done.

Reese per se was not the problem...he became the problem when he hire Ross....CYA seemed to be primary driver. They kept and double down on mistakes.

The Giants now....have no issues moving away from mistakes....even the scout that selected Baker was let go....next. accountability is primary driver.

Even if Gettleman retires, exit....the scouts, Judge have same mindsets...
I have no issues w/ Judge so far  
McNally's_Nuts : 9/21/2020 1:01 pm : link
but Shumur was such a bad hire in retrospect. He reminded me of Lt. Norman Dyke in Band of Brothers.
So the alternative is to stay the course,  
Mike from Ohio : 9/21/2020 1:02 pm : link
no matter the results? DG has been the GM now for 3 years.
When do you "rip off the bandaid?" Five years? Seven years?

Nobody is suggesting Judge be fired. He has coached two games. But DG has a record to evaluate, and even viewed in the best light is mediocre.

This is a results driven league, and so far the results are poor.
if we're even sniffing a top QB  
Platos : 9/21/2020 1:05 pm : link
next year in the draft that means DJ has shown absolutely no sign of improvement with arguably a better line and a decent defense.

i don't care how hard the schedule is. if that happens why not get another QB?

i think regardless of who is here we're going pass rusher/cb in 2021 and hopefully get a shot at Creed Humphries for Center.
RE: I'm in the Anti-Gettleman camp now  
cosmicj : 9/21/2020 1:09 pm : link
In comment 14980324 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
Firmly, hopefully he retires and Judge has a hand in selecting a GM with his philosophy.
I approve of DG’s 2020 - a lot of intelligent decisionmaking - but still agree with Joey on this. The Ravens have two assistant GMs that are worth evaluating closely.
RE: I'm in the Anti-Gettleman camp now  
Sean : 9/21/2020 1:13 pm : link
In comment 14980324 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
Firmly, hopefully he retires and Judge has a hand in selecting a GM with his philosophy.


This x1000. However, we can all be anti-DG, but we need to give it time to see how his young players produce/develop.
RE: if we're even sniffing a top QB  
Daniel in MI : 9/21/2020 1:14 pm : link
This is short sighted imo. First, no young QB is going to carry a team that lacks good WRs, a run game, blocking, or a D that can hold a lead. It’s possible we don’t win much (though I expect 6 or so) even as DJ grows. But top of the draft can also be a place to get other things we need like a dynamic pass rusher. DJ’s very good ‘skins game last year arguably cost us Chase Young. We clearly still need a good pass rusher to protect the back end of the D as we saw this week when the Bears has like 6 seconds to find a guy in the EZ.

In comment 14980338 Platos said:
Quote:
next year in the draft that means DJ has shown absolutely no sign of improvement with arguably a better line and a decent defense.

i don't care how hard the schedule is. if that happens why not get another QB?

i think regardless of who is here we're going pass rusher/cb in 2021 and hopefully get a shot at Creed Humphries for Center.
The way I look at it  
Fred in Atlanta : 9/21/2020 1:22 pm : link
the organization was trying to have one last run with Eli, and Basically started the rebuild in the middle of last year, and really full rebuild is just beginning this year.
Fred  
cosmicj : 9/21/2020 1:24 pm : link
I don't think those dates work. For me, the teams' U-turn and rebuild began in November 2018 with the trades of Snacks and Apple.
....  
CoughlinHandsonHips : 9/21/2020 1:28 pm : link
I think a lot stems from wanting to win with Eli Manning. All these coaching change patch jobs they did, thinking a tinker here or there would fix things.

Although they were shitty coaches, I'm sure Shurmur and Macadoo's first choice at QB wasn't the ancient Manning.

GM - Coach - QB are usually tied at the hip. They shoulda bit the bullet early and made a change of all three in the same year.

I am beyond frustrated with this franchise  
Mike from SI : 9/21/2020 1:31 pm : link
but I think stick with Judge for now.
Gettleman's drafts have been okay  
bc4life : 9/21/2020 1:37 pm : link
His FA record has ben sketchy
RE: if we're even sniffing a top QB  
JohnnyFlowers : 9/21/2020 1:39 pm : link
In comment 14980338 Platos said:
Quote:
next year in the draft that means DJ has shown absolutely no sign of improvement with arguably a better line and a decent defense.

i don't care how hard the schedule is. if that happens why not get another QB?

i think regardless of who is here we're going pass rusher/cb in 2021 and hopefully get a shot at Creed Humphries for Center.


A better line? Do you even watch the games? If our D is so much "better" then why draft D with the first pick next year?
RE: You  
Justlurking : 9/21/2020 1:46 pm : link
In comment 14980319 SoZKillA said:
Quote:
forgot to mention Abrams and Chris Mara who deserve a lot of this blame for the franchise being in shambles. The organization not hiring a GM who had no relations to the current players and Front Office was a huge mistake that has set us back.


This. They still have not made any meaningful changes. Its the same house, they just painted the facade.
Yeah, as others have pointed out  
bceagle05 : 9/21/2020 1:51 pm : link
there were changes, but not the wholesale changes that were needed. You can’t fire Reese and have his predecessor “advise” you to hire someone else they both worked with for a decade plus. Our only hope is Joe Judge dragging this franchise into the new NFL world.
The results are due to a lack of talent.  
Jarvis : 9/21/2020 1:54 pm : link
Think about this....Going into week 3 and likely for the remainder fo this season

1) Our 1st round pick from 2018 (number 2 overall) will be out
2) From the 2019 draft we used rounds 2-5 on corners (Baker was a trade up and Beale was from the supplemental prior to this costing us a 3rd). Neither are playing. So in essence just from 2018 and 19 there is a 1-5 rounders missing already.
3) From this draft our 2nd round pick is out.

Couple this with our big free against from 2018 opting out (rightfully so) and there just isn’t any talent on the team. The drafts prior to 2018 were poor which led to Reese being fired. So Gettleman took over a team that had very little talent due to years of poor drafting and then through bad drafting and bad luck the Giants will not have many impacts guys (if any) on the field the rest of this season. Just hard to win like that. Is there a player now on either side of the ball that teams really need to prepare for?

Throw in the fact that there was no preseason or OTA’s with a brand new coaching staff and a young QB...just can’t win this way.
You don't get rid of Gettleman because we saw the Giants star RB  
LBH15 : 9/21/2020 1:55 pm : link
and most valuable player get hurt yesterday.

You get rid of Gettleman because we continue to see the lower talent level of his teams versus others yesterday.
RE: ....  
GiantsRage2007 : 9/21/2020 2:02 pm : link
In comment 14980386 CoughlinHandsonHips said:
Quote:
I think a lot stems from wanting to win with Eli Manning. All these coaching change patch jobs they did, thinking a tinker here or there would fix things.

Although they were shitty coaches, I'm sure Shurmur and Macadoo's first choice at QB wasn't the ancient Manning.

GM - Coach - QB are usually tied at the hip. They shoulda bit the bullet early and made a change of all three in the same year.



Yes.

I don't understand why they didn't jettison DG too. He got his pick of coach in Shurmur, it didn't work. Now the GM/Coach cycle is off... if you want to fire DG now, we have a coach in place. Typical mistake bad franchises make - and we're checking all the boxes lately in bad mistakes here...
...  
christian : 9/21/2020 2:12 pm : link
The one trend you’ll notice there is 1) the Giants have tried to keep some continuity from one regime to the next 2) the unmentioned Chris Mara, who has been the tissue between all of it, and yet who knows what he actually does.
...  
BrettNYG10 : 9/21/2020 2:25 pm : link
One of my first criticisms of DG was that he didn't clear out the front office immediately. Scouts remained the same, etc. There was a lot more turnover this off-season, I believe, and some new additions I liked.

I wanted DG fired this past off-season. With a new coach, though, I'd prefer for them to be joined at the hip. I haven't seen anything that I dislike from Judge, it's too early to tell.

I don't value stability for stability sake. I expect this to be a bad year record wise. I care about whether Hernandez, Thomas, and Jones are taking the requisite steps towards the end of the season. I have not been impressed with Hernandez since his rookie season. He looks like an average/below-average starter to me. I want to have confidence he's a plus player. Thomas looks good to me.

I also want to have higher conviction that Jones is the guy. I think he is, but I'm not particularly confident yet. I think he's more of a question mark than DG supporters think. He can play, but is he a top ten guy? Just an average QB? Or a guy who flames out after a good rookie season and never takes the next step to be a consistent quality Quarterback? I think this is uncertain today (which is fine - it would have been a shock to be confident he's the guy early in his second year).

I don't think DG should be the guy to do the Lawrence vs. Jones analysis if we have the #1 pick. Despite generally wanting Judge/DG's fate to be tied, I want someone else making that decision.
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