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Dexter Lawrence and Leonard Williams on the sideline

nyjuggernaut2 : 9/21/2020 1:21 pm
with 7 mins left in the game, and Chicago with the ball knowing they will do all they can to pound the rock and milk the clock. Those two are the Giants best interior linemen, and for the first few minutes of that drive they weren’t in. In their place was Austin Johnson and BJ Hill. Bears torched the Giants on the ground, and it wasn’t until both Lawrence and Williams finally got put back in and stopped the bleeding.

No excuse for having both guys not in there from the get go on that series. Poor decision by the coaches there.
what  
SoZKillA : 9/21/2020 1:25 pm : link
about PG rushing 3 guys on 3rd down a majority of the game.....
I actually wrote that down yesterday  
Joey in VA : 9/21/2020 1:27 pm : link
When Montgomery ran for 21 yards on 2 plays I rewound and saw Austin Johnson, BJ Hill and Tomlinson with Martinez and Peppers playing LB. They ran RIGHT AT Johnson and Peppers and both got washed out of the play, then the same grouping got murdered again. Then Downs came in, and it helped but we still left our two best DL on the sideline.

On the TD in the first half, where Trubisky had 6.2 seconds to throw we had ZERO DL in the game. Even if you want to contain him, someone has to push the pocket and force him to a side with 3 LBs and 8 DBs you aren't going to do that. Graham lost the chess match in the first half and in the 4th quarter.
I noticed it also  
Andy in Boston : 9/21/2020 1:29 pm : link
and that's when they were running the ball at like 9 yards a clip.
Head scratcher for sure  
aGiantGuy : 9/21/2020 1:29 pm : link
I have no clue why they decided to use a rotation during the most important drive of the game, it made absolutely no sense and likely cost us the game
RE: I actually wrote that down yesterday  
Thegratefulhead : 9/21/2020 1:29 pm : link
In comment 14980385 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
When Montgomery ran for 21 yards on 2 plays I rewound and saw Austin Johnson, BJ Hill and Tomlinson with Martinez and Peppers playing LB. They ran RIGHT AT Johnson and Peppers and both got washed out of the play, then the same grouping got murdered again. Then Downs came in, and it helped but we still left our two best DL on the sideline.

On the TD in the first half, where Trubisky had 6.2 seconds to throw we had ZERO DL in the game. Even if you want to contain him, someone has to push the pocket and force him to a side with 3 LBs and 8 DBs you aren't going to do that. Graham lost the chess match in the first half and in the 4th quarter.
Solid.
we  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/21/2020 1:30 pm : link
may be seeing another side effect of no preseason here. The DLs are not used to playing more than a few scrimmage snaps. There was no 2nd and 3rd preseason games where the DL plays at least half the game and sometimes into the 3rd quarter.
That amoeba defense was comical  
penkap75 : 9/21/2020 1:31 pm : link
but I wasn't laughing.
Joey Bosa  
Bubba : 9/21/2020 1:34 pm : link
was on the sidelines for much of KC's last drive as well. I recall hearing years ago that DL expend more energy than any other position. They not only need to fight off blockers that need to change directions and react to the play. These guys are just not in game shape yet.
RE: we  
JohnnyFlowers : 9/21/2020 1:36 pm : link
In comment 14980396 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
may be seeing another side effect of no preseason here. The DLs are not used to playing more than a few scrimmage snaps. There was no 2nd and 3rd preseason games where the DL plays at least half the game and sometimes into the 3rd quarter.


and the easy rebuttal to this opinion is these players are paid millions of dollars to play this game which entails working year round on their bodies. They need to work harder in practice but since that is not really an option with the current agreements, the players need to hold themselves accountable and be in the best shape possible. Rather than make an excuse, I would like them to work harder.
Agree with Eric's point  
Mike from Ohio : 9/21/2020 1:36 pm : link
I don't think it was a strategic decision to not play the best DTs when Chicago was attempting to run out the clock. Conditioning is an issue with no pre-season games and with DTs more than most. You can criticize the planning of rotation and why they were not fresh at the end, but if they were rotated out sooner we are likely talking about an earlier drive in 4th quarter when this happened.
RE: RE: we  
Mike from Ohio : 9/21/2020 1:38 pm : link
In comment 14980409 JohnnyFlowers said:
Quote:
In comment 14980396 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


may be seeing another side effect of no preseason here. The DLs are not used to playing more than a few scrimmage snaps. There was no 2nd and 3rd preseason games where the DL plays at least half the game and sometimes into the 3rd quarter.



and the easy rebuttal to this opinion is these players are paid millions of dollars to play this game which entails working year round on their bodies. They need to work harder in practice but since that is not really an option with the current agreements, the players need to hold themselves accountable and be in the best shape possible. Rather than make an excuse, I would like them to work harder.


This is a silly take. No amount of work in the offseason compensates for game conditioning.
RE: Joey Bosa  
aGiantGuy : 9/21/2020 1:38 pm : link
In comment 14980404 Bubba said:
Quote:
was on the sidelines for much of KC's last drive as well. I recall hearing years ago that DL expend more energy than any other position. They not only need to fight off blockers that need to change directions and react to the play. These guys are just not in game shape yet.


I don’t know, Daniel Jones had a pretty long drive before that, hard to believe that LW and DL were still tired after that. Seemed like a coaching mistake to me. If it was indeed a lack of conditioning, then shame on those two players.
RE: RE: we  
UConn4523 : 9/21/2020 1:38 pm : link
In comment 14980409 JohnnyFlowers said:
Quote:
In comment 14980396 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


may be seeing another side effect of no preseason here. The DLs are not used to playing more than a few scrimmage snaps. There was no 2nd and 3rd preseason games where the DL plays at least half the game and sometimes into the 3rd quarter.



and the easy rebuttal to this opinion is these players are paid millions of dollars to play this game which entails working year round on their bodies. They need to work harder in practice but since that is not really an option with the current agreements, the players need to hold themselves accountable and be in the best shape possible. Rather than make an excuse, I would like them to work harder.


That isn’t an easy rebuttal. If it was then players would never leave the game. Being in shape and being in mid season form as far as endurance goes are two completely different things.
RE: we  
Eman11 : 9/21/2020 1:44 pm : link
In comment 14980396 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
may be seeing another side effect of no preseason here. The DLs are not used to playing more than a few scrimmage snaps. There was no 2nd and 3rd preseason games where the DL plays at least half the game and sometimes into the 3rd quarter.


I’d be more inclined to agree with this if the Giants O just had a quick 3 and out but they didn’t. They had a nice drive where the DL and rest of the D should’ve had more than enough time to get their wind back.
JohnnyFlowers  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/21/2020 1:45 pm : link
Being in shape is not the same as football shape. Anyone connected to the game will tell you that.
RE: we  
AcidTest : 9/21/2020 1:49 pm : link
In comment 14980396 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
may be seeing another side effect of no preseason here. The DLs are not used to playing more than a few scrimmage snaps. There was no 2nd and 3rd preseason games where the DL plays at least half the game and sometimes into the 3rd quarter.


^This.
...  
christian : 9/21/2020 1:50 pm : link
I think the exotic defensive line formations are by design and not because of fatigue. If you key in on the defensive personnel there are some whacky looks from go. If this is the product of “multiple” — forget that noise.
If they arent in shape  
Dankbeerman : 9/21/2020 1:56 pm : link
then they need their snaps managed better. should be able to work one out at a time .

Big problem for me was lack of and Inside presence at LB. Martinez is good side to but we need a downhill thumper in there to. play Peppers as a LB or Carter or Fackrel playing inside is an issue and Im not seeing much from Downs.

Mayo is being missed on running downs
Adding on to Eric's Comment  
Biteymax22 : 9/21/2020 2:09 pm : link
Without the preseason the coaches are really still evaluating our talent vs other teams. They didn't get to see Johnson perform against anyone other than our own lineman during camp.

I'd throw in that Graham adjusted pretty quickly and we didn't give up a point the entire second half, but clearly they have to manage their rotations better because SF will break runs against us this week if we don't.
This was mentioned during the Seahawks and Pats game  
jvm52106 : 9/21/2020 2:10 pm : link
as the Patriots the week before used EVERY one of their defensive players against the Dolphins. Conditioning, game conditioning is way different than practice and workouts. Plus, yesterday was a day game for the first time and you have to think the heat was getting to some of those guys.
Points like this..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/21/2020 2:18 pm : link
are ones I wish would force posters to take a deep breath before spouting off crap.

You had multiple comments about how Williams isn't worth a damn because the Bears ran it right down our throats, yet when he and Lawrence came back into the game coincided to the point where the run started getting stuffed and we forced a 4th down, and then after that, the hold and the missed FG.

It's like keyboards get mashed before synapses actually fire with an understanding of what's going on.
Sometimes Coaches Can Be Too Smart  
Jeffrey : 9/21/2020 2:27 pm : link
In two weeks the Giants have not really not stopped the run. I think that Graham may have his gimmick defense but giving up 4.5 yards per carry is not exactly the road to success. The Bears were more than comfortable running on 2nd and long. The Giants interior line, including backups are supposed to be better against the run and yet the numbers do not show that yet.
i think graham is a guy who will outsmart himself  
GiantsFan84 : 9/21/2020 2:28 pm : link
like using ebner on defense. in football you don't need to get cute. you just need to kick ass
RE: That amoeba defense was comical  
ryanmkeane : 9/21/2020 2:29 pm : link
In comment 14980398 penkap75 said:
Quote:
but I wasn't laughing.

The defense gave up 17 points, and had to deal with short fields because of turnovers. They played a really good game if you ask me.
we need more front 7 talent  
djm : 9/21/2020 2:34 pm : link
notably an athletic maniac at DE to spell and push the incumbents there, and we need one more starter in the secondary assuming McKinney is the goods when he comes back. And we need more depth there too. The D is getting there but it needs 2-3 more good players. There's NO depth.
Not a fan of the amoeba defense thus far  
D-Rod : 9/21/2020 2:37 pm : link
doesn't seem to have generated much of a pass rush at all.
RE: RE: That amoeba defense was comical  
UConn4523 : 9/21/2020 2:39 pm : link
In comment 14980498 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 14980398 penkap75 said:


Quote:


but I wasn't laughing.


The defense gave up 17 points, and had to deal with short fields because of turnovers. They played a really good game if you ask me.


This guy hasn't posted 1 thing of value that I ever remember reading. Complain, complain, complain - and some of the complaints aren't actually legitimate, debunked by facts such the defense playing well enough yesterday to put the offense in position to win the game.
I hate amoeba defenses  
JonC : 9/21/2020 2:43 pm : link
it just means you're trying to create any bit of confusion to mask deficiencies as a last resort.

Oh, and yes it's very likely a conditioning issue they're trying to rotate and guard against.
run defense may not be  
bc4life : 9/21/2020 3:01 pm : link
as bad as you think. they would have kept Steelers back to about 80 yards but Peppers took a shitty angle and got flat footed - a play that should have netted 1-2 yards at most gained more than 20.
I wouldn't have even thought this was worth posting about.  
81_Great_Dane : 9/21/2020 3:36 pm : link
Of course you'd prefer to have your best linemen fresh and ready to go at the critical moment of the game. But obviously these guys aren't in game shape, and the offense couldn't sustain a drive in the first half. They played a lot of snaps.

The coaches are monitoring snap counts and they simply have to rotate the backups in to give the starters a blow.

It seems to me that a lot of fans forget that these are human beings, with human limits.
RE: we  
Matt M. : 9/21/2020 3:42 pm : link
In comment 14980396 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
may be seeing another side effect of no preseason here. The DLs are not used to playing more than a few scrimmage snaps. There was no 2nd and 3rd preseason games where the DL plays at least half the game and sometimes into the 3rd quarter.
Excellent point. But, I also think this isn't unexpected. Look at the roster makeup. There isn't a ton of depth at true DL, while there are a lot of LBs, including edge rushers. It seems the Giant plan will be to run a lot of hybrid defenses which will include 1 or 2 DL and we will likely see Peppers at LB in sets also, allowing for different looks with 3 safeties.
RE: run defense may not be  
LBH15 : 9/21/2020 6:33 pm : link
In comment 14980521 bc4life said:
Quote:
as bad as you think. they would have kept Steelers back to about 80 yards but Peppers took a shitty angle and got flat footed - a play that should have netted 1-2 yards at most gained more than 20.


The Steelers ran for 140+ yards. So somewhere in there you are missing 40+ yards.
There are only 7 minutes left in the game and Giants need  
LBH15 : 9/21/2020 6:45 pm : link
another touchdown and the coaches felt they should keep 2 of the 3 best interior DL on the bench?? Everybody knew the Bears were going to run the ball to take time of clock and keep Trubisky from throwing any more interceptions.

Awful decision. And even if they needed to monitor snaps, shouldn't the rest of the Defense on the field be told to sell out a good bit on the run, at least on 1st and 2nd down. No way that ball was going to be thrown unless it was 3rd down, and it still would have been a short pass.

That was time for the big-boys to pull up their pants and they let them march down the field, use up 5+ minutes of clock and all 3 of our timeouts.

Giants were able to have just one throw in the end zone to potentially win the game.

Awful.
Last week the Steelers ran for 140+ yards with  
LBH15 : 9/21/2020 6:52 pm : link
backup O-lineman and RB on the field. Yet I was told the interior guys played well and the Steelers got most of that yardage running to the outside.

Now the Bears run for almost 140 yards as well, and particularly strong at the end of the game when everybody knows they are going to run to burn the clock. And its because the highest paid player and highest defensive draft choice on the team are on the bench grabbing some Gatorade.

Super.
One way or another, the Giants got run on...  
trueblueinpw : 9/21/2020 8:14 pm : link
The interior D line was supposed to be the strength of this team. I’m sick of all the excuses. Getty said he was going to fix the O line and the D line. He’s done neither. And yet, there are a million excuses. Not a lot of wins. But a lot of excuses.
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