I think on numbers alone he falls right into the category of not quite. I think all he needed was another season or two to put him over the hump but look at his career yardage. He is right around Chad Johnson, Keenan McCardell, Joey Galloway, Roddy White. Those guys to me are more the "Hall of Very Good" Plus....a big one for Pittsburgh....he didn't win a championship. If he bounces back and does solid then I think he will make it.
so if he does get in there will be a "screw u" delay like there was with TO
Wasn't TO elected in his 2nd year eligible? Not exactly a long wait...
And while both diva's, the similarities pretty much end there. Brown's numbers don't come close to TO's:
TO: 1078 rec 15,934 yds (3rd all time) 153 TD (3rd all time) 14.8 ypr
Brown: 841 rec 11,263 yds 75 TD 13.4 ypr
And this isn't a Bettis situation where he climbed the all time ranks by hanging around. TO was a legit top 2-3 WR in his prime.
Peak Brown was elite, but ultimately I think he falls short and his craziness (which is far worse than Moss/Owens) keeps him out. A better comp for Brown will be Calvin Johnson who had more TDs and yards despite one fewer season (though 4 more GP).
he was a sure fire HoFer before derailing his own career. By that I mean even decent WR2 stats for a few years would have cemented his spot.
But he likely doesn't get in now. I know people want to think the HoF should be about performance only but I think that's bullshit. How you carry yourself and the mark you leave on the game matters, IMO. He's left a stain.
And his numbers will look worse in another five or ten years given the passing numbers.
I don't think new passing numbers matter. What matters is the year he retires (2020 unless he reinstates) and how he stacks up with his peers at that time.
Right now he's 35th all time in receiving yards. The only active player that will pass him in the next year or two would be Desean Jackson. Then its Hopkins in a few years. No one else will pass him by 2025 in all liklihood.
He's 34th in Receiving TD's all time. Graham and Witten right behind and will probably pass him (but they are TE's). Next WR that might pass him is AJ Green who's 12 behind (he may not when its all said and done) then Julio Jones that needs 18 and that might not happen.
His numbers are great. He gets in without all the bullshit but he really screwed himself.
And his numbers will look worse in another five or ten years given the passing numbers.
Over a 6 year span (2013-2018), he led the league in receptions twice, receiving yards twice (yards/game once) and TDs once with 6 pro bowl appearances and 4 all pros. Sure his career totals may not be as great with the growth of the passing game, but he was arguably the best WR in the league for that stretch. The only reason he might fall in career #s is because he went bat shit crazy and is basically out of football in his prime. He basically only needed one more "good" season (by his standards) to crack the top 20 all time in TDs and receptions. Not bad for only 10 seasons.
(4 First Team All Pro selections, 1 Second Team) but ultimately had a career short on longevity.
Here are the list of WRs post-merger with 4 or more First Team All-Pro Selections
Jerry Rice (10)
Terrell Owens (5)
Randy Moss (4)
Antonio Brown (4)
That's it.
I compare him very closely to Calvin Johnson. Exceptional players, who, had they had a few more decent seasons, would be no-brainers. I preferred Calvin as I thought he carreid that offense whereas AB was part of a great offense, but AB has that extra First Team All Pro.
Basically, I can't think of better WRs than Calvin or AB who are eligible and not in the HOF
Isaac Bruce has 91 total TDs, 15,200 yards, 1 2nd team all-pro selections and is in the HOF. He led the league in yards once, and never TDs.
CJ: 84 total TDs, 11,600 yards, 3 All pros, 1 second team, led the league in yards twice and TDs once.
AB: 80 total TDs, 11,200 yards, 4 All Pros, 1 second team, led the league in yards twice and TDs once.
Andre Reed: 88 total TDs, 13,200 yards, 2 2nd team all pros, never led the league in yards or TDs.
TO being kept out of the 1st ballot was an absolute joke. Yes, he was an incredibly big diva but he was the 2nd best WR of his era to Moss. Don't give me that Marvin Harrison nonsense, TO would've set records with Peyton Manning as well. That Super Bowl performance from him was legendary and should have cemented him as 1st ballot, but I guess since he lost the voters ignored it.
If TO got kept out of the 1st ballot as "punishment", Brown will likely get kept out in general or at least for a long long time.
He was 1 or 1a with Julio Jones for a handful of seasons. I think Julio Jones' "Absolutely ridiculous, should have won the Super Bowl" 4th quarter catch against the Patriots is the moment when I decided that he was the best WR in the game for sure. But there are/were arguments that Brown was better.
Great player but probably wouldn't get in as of today.
but also had far worse QB play so that gives him the nod for me and he should get in. I think Brown has the stats to get there as well as he's basically no worse than the 5th or 6th best WR over the last 20 years.
If he was a choir boy and had these stats he'd get in. Maybe not first ballot but he'd get there eventually.
And his numbers will look worse in another five or ten years given the passing numbers.
I don't think new passing numbers matter. What matters is the year he retires (2020 unless he reinstates) and how he stacks up with his peers at that time.
Right now he's 35th all time in receiving yards. The only active player that will pass him in the next year or two would be Desean Jackson. Then its Hopkins in a few years. No one else will pass him by 2025 in all liklihood.
He's 34th in Receiving TD's all time. Graham and Witten right behind and will probably pass him (but they are TE's). Next WR that might pass him is AJ Green who's 12 behind (he may not when its all said and done) then Julio Jones that needs 18 and that might not happen.
His numbers are great. He gets in without all the bullshit but he really screwed himself.
Compared him to his peers, but you leave out Larry Fitzgerald? That would be the most likely comparison, especially since Fitzgerald may wind up retiring soon so would be eligible right after AB.
but DeAndre Hopkins already has 3 First Team All Pros, and Tyreek Hill has 2 (in only 3 seasons). In terms of HOF, they are certainly building up stronger resumes than other great receivers who never did that.
is overshadowing AB the player. His peak is better than pretty much everyone in in the last decade. That includes Fitz, Hopkins, Julio, etc. Normally i'd put Julio Jones as the clear #1 but his woeful TD numbers really put a damper on his legacy for me.
not if Bavaro isn't. Longevity and bla bla bla fucking bla.
He falls a whisker short in my eyes. Here's a friendly tip their Antonio, want to make the HOF? Don't act like a maniacal asshole midway through your career.
except you could argue a healthy Megatron was the best WR in the game. His numbers from 2011-2013 were ridiculous:
Averaged: 105 rec 1787 yds 11 TDs
And Brown/Julio were in much better situations than him.
AJ Green wasn't far behind those 3 either, he just got handcuffed by Dalton.
Amazing no doubt but Brown isn't much different other than the yards and this is over 6 years.
114 catches, 1,524 yards, 13.3 YPC, and 11 TDs
If we take 2014-16 you get:
125 Catches, 1,677 yards, and 11.66 TD's. Basically on pay with peak Calvin, IMO.
Not to take anything away from Brown, but Johnson averaged four yards more per catch on nearly the same volume. Put Johnson in an offense with Bell and Big Ben and it's scary to think what he could've accomplished.
Not claiming he was better but I’d put him right there especially that 6 year stretch, depends on how you look at it. Calvin is really the only guy I’d consider putting above him since TO.
Wasn't TO elected in his 2nd year eligible? Not exactly a long wait...
And while both diva's, the similarities pretty much end there. Brown's numbers don't come close to TO's:
TO: 1078 rec 15,934 yds (3rd all time) 153 TD (3rd all time) 14.8 ypr
Brown: 841 rec 11,263 yds 75 TD 13.4 ypr
And this isn't a Bettis situation where he climbed the all time ranks by hanging around. TO was a legit top 2-3 WR in his prime.
Peak Brown was elite, but ultimately I think he falls short and his craziness (which is far worse than Moss/Owens) keeps him out. A better comp for Brown will be Calvin Johnson who had more TDs and yards despite one fewer season (though 4 more GP).
But he likely doesn't get in now. I know people want to think the HoF should be about performance only but I think that's bullshit. How you carry yourself and the mark you leave on the game matters, IMO. He's left a stain.
114 catches, 1,524 yards, 13.3 YPC, and 11 TDs. In this 6 years he also averaged over 10 yards per return with 3 more TD's.
These numbers likely better if Roethlisberger didn't miss half a seasons worth of games in this stretch as well.
I don't think new passing numbers matter. What matters is the year he retires (2020 unless he reinstates) and how he stacks up with his peers at that time.
Right now he's 35th all time in receiving yards. The only active player that will pass him in the next year or two would be Desean Jackson. Then its Hopkins in a few years. No one else will pass him by 2025 in all liklihood.
He's 34th in Receiving TD's all time. Graham and Witten right behind and will probably pass him (but they are TE's). Next WR that might pass him is AJ Green who's 12 behind (he may not when its all said and done) then Julio Jones that needs 18 and that might not happen.
His numbers are great. He gets in without all the bullshit but he really screwed himself.
Over a 6 year span (2013-2018), he led the league in receptions twice, receiving yards twice (yards/game once) and TDs once with 6 pro bowl appearances and 4 all pros. Sure his career totals may not be as great with the growth of the passing game, but he was arguably the best WR in the league for that stretch. The only reason he might fall in career #s is because he went bat shit crazy and is basically out of football in his prime. He basically only needed one more "good" season (by his standards) to crack the top 20 all time in TDs and receptions. Not bad for only 10 seasons.
Here are the list of WRs post-merger with 4 or more First Team All-Pro Selections
Jerry Rice (10)
Terrell Owens (5)
Randy Moss (4)
Antonio Brown (4)
That's it.
I compare him very closely to Calvin Johnson. Exceptional players, who, had they had a few more decent seasons, would be no-brainers. I preferred Calvin as I thought he carreid that offense whereas AB was part of a great offense, but AB has that extra First Team All Pro.
Basically, I can't think of better WRs than Calvin or AB who are eligible and not in the HOF
Isaac Bruce has 91 total TDs, 15,200 yards, 1 2nd team all-pro selections and is in the HOF. He led the league in yards once, and never TDs.
CJ: 84 total TDs, 11,600 yards, 3 All pros, 1 second team, led the league in yards twice and TDs once.
AB: 80 total TDs, 11,200 yards, 4 All Pros, 1 second team, led the league in yards twice and TDs once.
Andre Reed: 88 total TDs, 13,200 yards, 2 2nd team all pros, never led the league in yards or TDs.
If TO got kept out of the 1st ballot as "punishment", Brown will likely get kept out in general or at least for a long long time.
He was 1 or 1a with Julio Jones for a handful of seasons. I think Julio Jones' "Absolutely ridiculous, should have won the Super Bowl" 4th quarter catch against the Patriots is the moment when I decided that he was the best WR in the game for sure. But there are/were arguments that Brown was better.
Great player but probably wouldn't get in as of today.
If he was a choir boy and had these stats he'd get in. Maybe not first ballot but he'd get there eventually.
Quote:
And his numbers will look worse in another five or ten years given the passing numbers.
I don't think new passing numbers matter. What matters is the year he retires (2020 unless he reinstates) and how he stacks up with his peers at that time.
Right now he's 35th all time in receiving yards. The only active player that will pass him in the next year or two would be Desean Jackson. Then its Hopkins in a few years. No one else will pass him by 2025 in all liklihood.
He's 34th in Receiving TD's all time. Graham and Witten right behind and will probably pass him (but they are TE's). Next WR that might pass him is AJ Green who's 12 behind (he may not when its all said and done) then Julio Jones that needs 18 and that might not happen.
His numbers are great. He gets in without all the bullshit but he really screwed himself.
Compared him to his peers, but you leave out Larry Fitzgerald? That would be the most likely comparison, especially since Fitzgerald may wind up retiring soon so would be eligible right after AB.
Averaged: 105 rec 1787 yds 11 TDs
And Brown/Julio were in much better situations than him.
AJ Green wasn't far behind those 3 either, he just got handcuffed by Dalton.
Averaged: 105 rec 1787 yds 11 TDs
And Brown/Julio were in much better situations than him.
AJ Green wasn't far behind those 3 either, he just got handcuffed by Dalton.
Amazing no doubt but Brown isn't much different other than the yards and this is over 6 years.
114 catches, 1,524 yards, 13.3 YPC, and 11 TDs
If we take 2014-16 you get:
125 Catches, 1,677 yards, and 11.66 TD's. Basically on pay with peak Calvin, IMO.
He falls a whisker short in my eyes. Here's a friendly tip their Antonio, want to make the HOF? Don't act like a maniacal asshole midway through your career.
No. No fucking way.
Quote:
except you could argue a healthy Megatron was the best WR in the game. His numbers from 2011-2013 were ridiculous:
Averaged: 105 rec 1787 yds 11 TDs
And Brown/Julio were in much better situations than him.
AJ Green wasn't far behind those 3 either, he just got handcuffed by Dalton.
Amazing no doubt but Brown isn't much different other than the yards and this is over 6 years.
114 catches, 1,524 yards, 13.3 YPC, and 11 TDs
If we take 2014-16 you get:
125 Catches, 1,677 yards, and 11.66 TD's. Basically on pay with peak Calvin, IMO.
Not to take anything away from Brown, but Johnson averaged four yards more per catch on nearly the same volume. Put Johnson in an offense with Bell and Big Ben and it's scary to think what he could've accomplished.
Hell, Terrell Davis making it should open the door for Tiki, but it didn't.