First off: It’s good to be back.
For the last 10 years I’ve worked at Metlife Stadium every Sunday and while there was an element of cool being at the stadium every week, the fact that I was working and it was a job that I had to be at created a kind of disconnect from the spirit of my fandom and I didn’t post on BBI much.
Now, “thanks” to the pandemic, I’ve lost 2 jobs and I have my Sundays back. I can watch football and the Giants again and I love it.
That also means you guys will get to enjoy the depth and unique perspective of my written opinion of this team on a more regular basis just like “the old days.”
So, that being said:
I believe the Giants are going to win 9 games - maybe more - this year. They are on this journey of self-discovery and I think the offensive line has figured out that they can push defensive fronts around with a power game and the defense is pretty darned good.
They get it now. They know they have “game” and this week they will win.
If they do win? They will go on a run.
Fire away!
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In comment 14983363 arcarsenal said:
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In comment 14983353 crick n NC said:
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In comment 14983349 arcarsenal said:
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Sure it was. A better draft position only gives you more options.
There was no tangible benefit to the Giants winning that football game. I can't think of a single one.
You're acting as if it's a fact. Nothing is decided from this past draft except the players taken.
Well, if you can name any benefit of winning that football game, I'm open to hearing it. At the time, many posters' rationale was something along the lines of "well, it's a building block towards next year" or a "confidence builder"
The coach and staff all got fired, so that logic went out the window with Shurmur, Bettcher, et al.
I'm not mad at winding up with Andrew Thomas because I think he's going to be a good tackle. But I'd sure liked to have had the option to take Chase Young. And if I just loved Thomas so much that he was going to be the guy no matter what, then I most certainly could have gotten someone to move into that spot and take Young, accrue additional assets and still get Thomas.
I get it, you can't go out and just tell guys to go lose a football game. But, from a fan perspective, I wish they had lost.
Maybe Young pops his achilles and is never the same guy and maybe Thomas blossoms into an all-pro tackle. You're right - those things could happen and we could turn around and say "hey, we lucked out!" - but I don't think that's likely.
My point is there a lot of possibilities in football and it seems jumping the gun to state with certainty that the giants got the worst part of winning that game against Washington. I am not even a believer in wins necessarily carrying over. I guess I am not used to seeing you state something so definite that has several possibilities that could play out.
There are no certainties, I understand that - but there are odds.
Look at Arizona. As soon as Arians got there, they had double-digit win totals for 3 consecutive years. They won 10, 11 and 13 games. Really strong 3 years there with a playoff win in 2015.
After that, they had a pair of injury-riddled / mediocre years and ran out of steam with that group and that was the end of Arians there.
Wilks was a mistake, so they moved on from him after one year.
They went 5-10-1 in Kingsbury's first year and now they're 2-0 in his second year with a very good defense, exciting young QB and one of the best WR's in football.
Why are other teams able to do this, but the Giants seemingly need 5+ years to do the same thing?
Obviously something is amiss here.
I just don't think the giants odds of getting better would have been much better or even better at all with Chase Young. I fully understand that may be a silly thing to say in regards to the future, but right now it seems more like a toss up to me.
We'll see.
Nevertheless, Young would've been a no brainer for NYG at #2.
Wasted energy to even discuss. Teams will always play to win.
But indeed, something is amiss here and we all know what/who it is.
Would you trade places with them right now?
I would.
The Cardinals aren't a model NFL franchise, but my point remains. It should not take 5+ years to turn a team around. And it feels like we have fans here who think that's how much time Gettleman should be given. If he needs that much time, he's not doing this right.
2. Are Jones and Barkley going to be on scholarship? If we're picking top three and have a shot at one of Lawrence, Fields, or Lance are we going to pass because we have Jones? Is Barkley going to get a second contract? Even before the injury that would have been a mistake; now it shouldn't even be a consideration.
As far as I'm concerned our best case scenario is that everything before Judge got here is up for replacement. He and the new GM get the keys and build it from scratch. 2017-2019 were a waste.
And, I'm one of the first here to say the players will play to win and don't care about the draft. As a fan pointing at the bottom line, I've got a legit complaint. Watch the kid play.
The football can bounce funny ways. Gotta build a team. Excellent players will be available every year at many positions.
Well hopefully the NYG found the guy that will slow him down.
Why would he? If he does, handing the keys to Judge might be a mistake too.
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for how to rebuild a team.
But indeed, something is amiss here and we all know what/who it is.
Would you trade places with them right now?
I would.
The Cardinals aren't a model NFL franchise, but my point remains. It should not take 5+ years to turn a team around. And it feels like we have fans here who think that's how much time Gettleman should be given. If he needs that much time, he's not doing this right.
I would trade them Gettleman if that's your going with this. :-)
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Abrams? It's certainly a possibility.
Why would he? If he does, handing the keys to Judge might be a mistake too.
Perhaps you don't know all there is to know about Abrams? IF Judge would choose Abrams why isn't it considered a favorable judgement? Why a detriment to Judge if he would want Abrams?
I don’t think Jones is on scholarship. There were reports the Giants looked at Herbert pretty closely (probably smokescreen, but was still reported). I think the remainder of the season will play a huge role in Jones leash here.
I don’t see the Giants letting Saquon walk.
Abrams can not be the next GM.
Abrams can not be the next GM.
I don't know role Abrams played in those decisions.
This is moot, just like we didn't have the #3 pick in 2019, or the #1 pick in 2018, or whatever. The Giants are sub-optimal in many ways, fix those and make up for it.
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and why teams spend millions to scale it. Picking #4, I'm good with Thomas. But, the end game there was sub-optimal.
This is moot, just like we didn't have the #3 pick in 2019, or the #1 pick in 2018, or whatever. The Giants are sub-optimal in many ways, fix those and make up for it.
You stepped in front, I responded. Let's drop it.
Crick, where does Judge even fit on the equation?. He's a fist time HC. He should have ZERO input..
A sea change is needed.
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And I am not advocating for Abrams. I am Just discussing the possibility of Judge liking him and find it fascinating how that would automatically be a detriment to Judge.
Crick, where does Judge even fit on the equation?. He's a fist time HC. He should have ZERO input..
I'd value Judge's input over Mara's.
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And I am not advocating for Abrams. I am Just discussing the possibility of Judge liking him and find it fascinating how that would automatically be a detriment to Judge.
Crick, where does Judge even fit on the equation?. He's a fist time HC. He should have ZERO input..
I am only speaking hypothetically. Even as a first time HC I think it's important for him to have input on who is going to help him build the roster. I feel the GM and coach should be on the same page for players that fit the scheme and fit personality wise
If we're looking for the first year coaches input on a guy who has been in-house for more than 2 decades, we're asking the wrong people.
But if you look at Abrams and how he's been ascending and has been promoted, it certainly feels like he's "next in line" and that scares the shit out of me, personally.
The Giants have to get out of this little executive box and desperately need input from fresh faces and new voices.
If we're looking for the first year coaches input on a guy who has been in-house for more than 2 decades, we're asking the wrong people.
But if you look at Abrams and how he's been ascending and has been promoted, it certainly feels like he's "next in line" and that scares the shit out of me, personally.
The Giants have to get out of this little executive box and desperately need input from fresh faces and new voices.
I’m fairly certain the Giants *want* Abrams to be the GM. It’s how they’ve always operated. I never felt Mara truly wanted to fire Reese (we’d be better off with him) because he was young and could GM the team for the long haul.
I often read “the Giants don’t fire GM’s” on here pre-Gettleman, the Giants had Young - Accorsi - Reese, I’m sure the Giants would like Abrams to take over, but results may not make it sellable.
NGD said it yesterday, but DG was probably brought back to buy a year for Abrams.
Not that I am advocating this in way shape or form... Just sayin'.
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Judge shouldn't even have an opinion on Abrams, honestly.
If we're looking for the first year coaches input on a guy who has been in-house for more than 2 decades, we're asking the wrong people.
But if you look at Abrams and how he's been ascending and has been promoted, it certainly feels like he's "next in line" and that scares the shit out of me, personally.
The Giants have to get out of this little executive box and desperately need input from fresh faces and new voices.
I’m fairly certain the Giants *want* Abrams to be the GM. It’s how they’ve always operated. I never felt Mara truly wanted to fire Reese (we’d be better off with him) because he was young and could GM the team for the long haul.
I often read “the Giants don’t fire GM’s” on here pre-Gettleman, the Giants had Young - Accorsi - Reese, I’m sure the Giants would like Abrams to take over, but results may not make it sellable.
NGD said it yesterday, but DG was probably brought back to buy a year for Abrams.
I fear you are right, Sean.
It’s basically been 18 games into the rebuild.
I think you're underestimating the factor of how long they've sucked. With the exception of 2016, this team has been pretty bad for the better part of a decade. So while you're right about them being only 18 games into a rebuild, it's incredibly frustrating that they're ONLY 18 games into the rebuild. This is a rebuild that should have happened much sooner. Part of what made the previous drafting so bad was that they kept trying to put finishing touches on a roster whose foundation was crumbling. And two different GMs are guilty of having done that.
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In comment 14983435 crick n NC said:
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And I am not advocating for Abrams. I am Just discussing the possibility of Judge liking him and find it fascinating how that would automatically be a detriment to Judge.
Crick, where does Judge even fit on the equation?. He's a fist time HC. He should have ZERO input..
I'd value Judge's input over Mara's.
so would I, But that is not the case and we know that. Which is why I can't figure out all these thing being attributed to him..
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In comment 14983435 crick n NC said:
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And I am not advocating for Abrams. I am Just discussing the possibility of Judge liking him and find it fascinating how that would automatically be a detriment to Judge.
Crick, where does Judge even fit on the equation?. He's a fist time HC. He should have ZERO input..
I am only speaking hypothetically. Even as a first time HC I think it's important for him to have input on who is going to help him build the roster. I feel the GM and coach should be on the same page for players that fit the scheme and fit personality wise
I agree but that is the problem. There is more than the GM and coach making the decisions..
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In comment 14983443 GManinDC said:
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In comment 14983435 crick n NC said:
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And I am not advocating for Abrams. I am Just discussing the possibility of Judge liking him and find it fascinating how that would automatically be a detriment to Judge.
Crick, where does Judge even fit on the equation?. He's a fist time HC. He should have ZERO input..
I am only speaking hypothetically. Even as a first time HC I think it's important for him to have input on who is going to help him build the roster. I feel the GM and coach should be on the same page for players that fit the scheme and fit personality wise
I agree but that is the problem. There is more than the GM and coach making the decisions..
It's hard to know how much, if any, Mara pushes certain player acquisitions.
Point being this yet another formative year. If Gettleman isn't going to be the personnel manager for the next 5 years, I'd prefer they hire the person they believe will be ASAP.
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In comment 14983417 JonC said:
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and why teams spend millions to scale it. Picking #4, I'm good with Thomas. But, the end game there was sub-optimal.
This is moot, just like we didn't have the #3 pick in 2019, or the #1 pick in 2018, or whatever. The Giants are sub-optimal in many ways, fix those and make up for it.
You stepped in front, I responded. Let's drop it.
yes, agreed
That certainly sums it up for me as well.
But I've resigned myself that it's a fait accompli. Gettleman has the baton, keeping the seat warm, and just waiting to be called into Principle Mara's office.
And then peaceful transition will occur as Mara hands off to another loyalist.
Not that I am advocating this in way shape or form... Just sayin'.
The case for Abrams is really this - he's a glorified NFL CPA and he apparently knows the cap. So let him crunch the numbers.
Since it's likely that Judge isn't a capologist, he could agree to ceding that to Abrams while he takes control of all things personnel. As I said last night, I could live with that. It would be very daring for Mara to walk out on that limb by consolidating so much power with one guy...
So, don't expect it...
They didn't have to do any of that, but did for a reason.
It's going to come down to the fans IMO. I'm glad the conversation has moved. If they think they can get away with it, it's going to be Abrams but we need to muster as much outrage as we can if this season goes the way it looks like it is going to right now.
JOHN AND CHRIS MARA RUN THE ENTIRE ON FIELD FOOTBALL OPERATION.
JOHN MARA HIRED JOE JUDGE.
CHRIS MARA IS SR VP OF PLAYER PERSONNEL.
There is nothing else to discuss. The Giants are no different than Dallas or Washington. The owner or in the Giants case owners micromanage the on field product. The "GM" is a middle manager with very limited authority whose main job is to take the heat and occasionally talk to the media. There are Mara nephews with more authority than the Giants "GM".
Reese, Gettleman, Abrams it makes no difference.
Judge did IMO.
Someone else from outside the Giants family pushes it further towards weighing more information and different approaches.
I don't think it's a given Chris Mara stays. It is quite possible a highly qualified GM doesn't want that kind of meddling, we've seen that start to surface. Not suggesting the Mara's will ever not heavily influence decisions but we can improve the balance and get more new ideas in the building.
JOHN AND CHRIS MARA RUN THE ENTIRE ON FIELD FOOTBALL OPERATION.
JOHN MARA HIRED JOE JUDGE.
CHRIS MARA IS SR VP OF PLAYER PERSONNEL.
There is nothing else to discuss. The Giants are no different than Dallas or Washington. The owner or in the Giants case owners micromanage the on field product. The "GM" is a middle manager with very limited authority whose main job is to take the heat and occasionally talk to the media. There are Mara nephews with more authority than the Giants "GM".
Reese, Gettleman, Abrams it makes no difference.
They own the fucking team. If their presence bothers you to the point that you feel like it's impossible to win in spite of them, and you continue to be a Giants fan anyway, you don't get to cast judgment on anyone else's stupidity.
JOHN AND CHRIS MARA RUN THE ENTIRE ON FIELD FOOTBALL OPERATION.
JOHN MARA HIRED JOE JUDGE.
CHRIS MARA IS SR VP OF PLAYER PERSONNEL.
There is nothing else to discuss. The Giants are no different than Dallas or Washington. The owner or in the Giants case owners micromanage the on field product. The "GM" is a middle manager with very limited authority whose main job is to take the heat and occasionally talk to the media. There are Mara nephews with more authority than the Giants "GM".
Reese, Gettleman, Abrams it makes no difference.
I had always heard it was Gettleman’s mother that said to pick Barkley.
This is where the team building/draft strategy comes into play. If this is what you truly believe, then you commit the resources to accomplish it. You go all-in on addressing the OL and DL. You don’t trade up for corners or burn picks in the supplemental draft.
There’s simply no direction or vision with this roster.
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We all know Abrams is not a personnel guy. If Judge is led to believe that Abrams will just be an "administrative" GM, but that he (Judge) has personnel power, he might go for it.
Not that I am advocating this in way shape or form... Just sayin'.
The case for Abrams is really this - he's a glorified NFL CPA and he apparently knows the cap. So let him crunch the numbers.
Since it's likely that Judge isn't a capologist, he could agree to ceding that to Abrams while he takes control of all things personnel. As I said last night, I could live with that. It would be very daring for Mara to walk out on that limb by consolidating so much power with one guy...
So, don't expect it...
The reason I don't advocate it is mainly because we don't know enough about Judge yet.
Judge looks and sounds the part of we fans expect as a HC. The team while still supremely untalented seems to be playing more error free football. But there is more to know, we really don't know how well he evaluates players, how well he is able to put them in positions to excel. How well he can scheme, game management, etc. etc. The most we can say of him right now is we like what we have seen so far. We simply need to see more of him.
It may very well be that Judge is a future HoFer and we would be wise to hand him the keys and let him do his thing. Just not ready to make that call at this point...
That said, I agree that it would be un-Mara like to give up control. Last time it took an intervention from Pete Roselle to get then Wellington to hand over the keys. Now that the kids have control, its not like a Mara to hand hand it over easily.
and the possibility of KC going undefeated
I did this based on the Vegas over/under of wins which for KC is at 12.3 and the Giants is at 4.8. The calculation I did are a bit of an over simplification I know but should get us in the right ballpark. So for KC to get to 12.3 win means that they have slightly under a 77% chance of winning any given game. The giants at 4.8 have exactly a 30% of winning any given game.
Odds of KC going undefeated over 16 games is about 2.5%
Odds of Giants winning 9 games is about 0.7%.
Both seem about right to me...
Make of that what you will.