Not sure who would be having fun watching the Giants right now. If you are, more power to you - I'm personally tired of watching garbage football and think it'd be cool if the team we root for could stop being a doormat and a "get right" game for every team in the NFL.
there’s varying degrees to that enjoyment of course. But I refuse to let a sports team make me bitter, I don’t see any point in it. In the grand scheme of things it just isn’t important enough to get upset about.
there’s varying degrees to that enjoyment of course. But I refuse to let a sports team make me bitter, I don’t see any point in it. In the grand scheme of things it just isn’t important enough to get upset about.
So, do you. Let me be me. If I choose to vent my frustrations in an appropriate venue, that's my decision. We don't all need to watch the Giants through the same lens.
If you don't like reading negative things about a crappy football team, this might not be a great place to spend spare time this fall and winter.
Also, the Giants make me bitter towards... the Giants. That's all.
I don't carry any of this into my personal life. I stopped doing that many moons ago. It would just be fantastic if this football team could stop being a league-wide laughingstock.
I can't think of many NFL teams who wouldn't see NYG on their schedule and not say "well, we can get a win there"
Almost every single team that has us on their schedule can say that.
I think the assumption the Giants offensive line is predestined to come together is a little silly. Over the last 2 games, the line has had major issues. Totally to be expected — because of the unorthodox offseason, the unfamiliarity of the unit, but also maybe because of the talent.
I think there are some likely positive outcomes:
1) Thomas is a high talent, high caliber player who will develop nicely
2) Hernandez benefits from not having literally the worst tackle on his wing like he did last year
I also think there are some reasonably likely disappointing outcomes:
1) UDFA Nick Gates is not an NFL caliber center
2) Kevin Zeitler is physically at the tail end of his career in year 9 in the NFL
3) Cam Fleming is not talented enough to be relied on as a full-time starter
Not to say those last three things are a lock to happen, but if those were true statements at the end of the year, would that be surprising?
you’re getting confused with “a tremendous amount of faith in this team” vs “I finally like the direction we are heading and the fact that they’ve made a commitment to do something about the OL with draft picks and coaching regime.”
I mean - what the hell do you want everyone to say? Until Joe Judge goes 13-3 we are just gonna suck forever?
We’ve played.....two games....with this new regime. Two games. Our rookie LT looks like the best lineman we’ve had in about 10 years, literally. Call me crazy but I do have a glimmer of hope, not a super bowl guarantee.
I can't believe I have to justify being negative about the worst team in the NFL over the last 3 years who are, again 0-2, and have scored fewer points through two weeks than any team in football.
I've tried the whole "wait and see" thing.. many times.
I keep seeing the same thing.
A team that doesn't make plays when a game is on the line and a team that continues to lose almost every single time they take the field.
We still can't run the ball. We still can't stop the run late in games. How many times did David Montgomery or Benny Snell cut through our front in 4th quarters?
I'm done giving the Giants the benefit of the doubt and I'm an idiot for having done it as long as I did. I'll believe this team is actually turning a corner when they start winning football games.
Washington looks like the next game we have a chance in. We're probably looking at 0-5 at that point.
You're entitled to be pessimistic but then what's the point of posting here? Your entire football opinion is everything about this teams sucks. Why post here then? First, you seem miserable why be here if Giants football makes you so miserable? Second, what does it add to the discussion if that's all you ever talk about?
The Giants very nearly came from behind in the Chicago game....
after losing Barkley early in the game. If they had Freeman they would have won the game, I'm sure of it.
Too many people are busily throwing away this season, not me.
The coaching staff won't allow this team to quit, and by getting a guy like Freeman they have a chance to get some wins.
Looking at the other teams in the NFCE, the Giants could beat any of them.
Getting Devonta Freeman as a weapon for the offense is a brilliant move.
In comment 14982059 arcarsenal said:
[quote] Also, the Giants make me bitter towards... the Giants. That's all.
Arc, you are a respected poster here and I give you that respect. But honestly STFU... look at the state of our world. We’re all getting shit on, can you at least wait a few more games? Or better yet... go find another team...damn you cry like a little girl
If you think Andrew Thomas is Ereck Flowers, then I don't know what to say.
This line is going to be a good one. It won't happen right away, but they have the parts.
I like Thomas. Not sure he'll be an All-Pro type player, but should be a good left tackle and not a weakness at all.
Hernandez i'm worried about. Doesn't seem like he's gotten any better since his rookie year, probably worse in fact.
Zeitler is overrated, always has been. Paid way too much money for the production he gives and he's likely going to worse, not better.
Thomas is the only part of this line i'm very confident in going forward. It will make rebuilding it a lot easier with a good LT, but the jury is out on the rest of the line
If I never see Dion Lewis back there again I’d be happy
He was worse than Stewart. Small no vision and goes down so easy. He’s a waste of a back. I’d rather see gallman or penny or rod smith than Lewis. Freeman should help if anything he’s a between the tackle runner and he’ll lower his shoulder and get the yards that’s there
To prove he can’t run behind our great OL, what a brilliant move.
When this line comes together, posts like this are going to look pretty darn silly.
Agreed Eric. A lot of people forget 3/5 of our line is new including a rookie RT. Throw in a completely non-existent offseason program and no preseason and it’s going to lead to poor play the first few weeks. Let’s check in around week 6 and see where they are at. This season favors teams with existing coaching staffs and veteran players. Especially the first half of the season.
We acknowledge that and still have tantrums about our struggles. Multitasking.
I can't believe I have to justify being negative about the worst team in the NFL over the last 3 years who are, again 0-2, and have scored fewer points through two weeks than any team in football.
I've tried the whole "wait and see" thing.. many times.
I keep seeing the same thing.
A team that doesn't make plays when a game is on the line and a team that continues to lose almost every single time they take the field.
We still can't run the ball. We still can't stop the run late in games. How many times did David Montgomery or Benny Snell cut through our front in 4th quarters?
I'm done giving the Giants the benefit of the doubt and I'm an idiot for having done it as long as I did. I'll believe this team is actually turning a corner when they start winning football games.
Washington looks like the next game we have a chance in. We're probably looking at 0-5 at that point.
You're entitled to be pessimistic but then what's the point of posting here? Your entire football opinion is everything about this teams sucks. Why post here then? First, you seem miserable why be here if Giants football makes you so miserable? Second, what does it add to the discussion if that's all you ever talk about?
That's not "all I ever talk about" but go on... continue to be overly-sensitive about another Giants fan criticizing the worst team in football over the last 3 years.
In comment 14982059 arcarsenal said:
[quote] Also, the Giants make me bitter towards... the Giants. That's all.
Arc, you are a respected poster here and I give you that respect. But honestly STFU... look at the state of our world. We’re all getting shit on, can you at least wait a few more games? Or better yet... go find another team...damn you cry like a little girl
coaching staff, or player personnel, that has been failing the past decade.
but...
at best we should be neutral in our expectations. The results so far, including past years performance of the 2 returning linemen (they were OK, maybe pushing solid-they aren't going to make, or break, the line), don't lend to irrational exuberance.
Certainly, we should all hope things work out, but I think this team has earned a "I'll believe it when I see it" attitude more than a "I'm positive the OL will prove itself" outlook
I think the assumption the Giants offensive line is predestined to come together is a little silly. Over the last 2 games, the line has had major issues. Totally to be expected — because of the unorthodox offseason, the unfamiliarity of the unit, but also maybe because of the talent.
I think there are some likely positive outcomes:
1) Thomas is a high talent, high caliber player who will develop nicely
2) Hernandez benefits from not having literally the worst tackle on his wing like he did last year
I also think there are some reasonably likely disappointing outcomes:
1) UDFA Nick Gates is not an NFL caliber center
2) Kevin Zeitler is physically at the tail end of his career in year 9 in the NFL
3) Cam Fleming is not talented enough to be relied on as a full-time starter
Not to say those last three things are a lock to happen, but if those were true statements at the end of the year, would that be surprising?
I see the OL the same way. Eric's insistence that it's going to come together and just needs time is a bit confounding.
I think Andrew Thomas is going to be good. I'm happy with that pick and am expecting that he'll develop into a guy we can pencil in @ LT for a while and not need to worry about.
I still don't see it with Will Hernandez, though. Is he getting better? It doesn't seem like he's really made much of any jump since his rookie year. He's not a liability, but I don't know if he's even a long-term answer.
The middle is still a total wild card with Gates.
Is Zeitler a long-term solution? Probably not. His body has taken a beating. I don't know that he'll still be a plus player by the time this team is ready to go.
Cam Fleming is a stopgap. That's not a long-term answer @ RT and if Matt Peart, who has a tremendous ceiling and also a tremendous chance of busting doesn't develop, we have no answer there.
To me, the OL is still very much a question mark. It's not fixed. It's in better shape than it was, but I don't see a sure thing here or anything even close.
I think the assumption the Giants offensive line is predestined to come together is a little silly. Over the last 2 games, the line has had major issues. Totally to be expected — because of the unorthodox offseason, the unfamiliarity of the unit, but also maybe because of the talent.
I think there are some likely positive outcomes:
1) Thomas is a high talent, high caliber player who will develop nicely
2) Hernandez benefits from not having literally the worst tackle on his wing like he did last year
I also think there are some reasonably likely disappointing outcomes:
1) UDFA Nick Gates is not an NFL caliber center
2) Kevin Zeitler is physically at the tail end of his career in year 9 in the NFL
3) Cam Fleming is not talented enough to be relied on as a full-time starter
Not to say those last three things are a lock to happen, but if those were true statements at the end of the year, would that be surprising?
Christian - no one should be surprised at four of those points. Zeitler's poor performance is though. I didn't think he was anything more than avg/solid last year but this year he has fallen a few notches for certain.
Again, silver lining for a bad season is we probably see some of the other rookie OL on the right side by end of the year.
Some people just never get tired of living in delusion
If the Giants can't run the ball(been a long time since they were able to run the ball effectively) we won't win many games. I am encouraged by this OL that was put together at the end of July(less than 2 months).
I am encouraged by the coaching staff in general but I have my doubts about Patrick Graham.Can't stand his amoeba defense.It prevents the defense from getting off the field on third down.
I like the Freeman signing for good value but I would like to see Gallman get the ball.We need to know if we can trust him as a RB.
To me this young team is still in preseason.
The second half of the season will show what direction the Giants are going in 2020. Arrow up or arrow down!!!
If the Giants can't run the ball(been a long time since they were able to run the ball effectively) we won't win many games. I am encouraged by this OL that was put together at the end of July(less than 2 months).
I am encouraged by the coaching staff in general but I have my doubts about Patrick Graham.Can't stand his amoeba defense.It prevents the defense from getting off the field on third down.
I like the Freeman signing for good value but I would like to see Gallman get the ball.We need to know if we can trust him as a RB.
To me this young team is still in preseason.
The second half of the season will show what direction the Giants are going in 2020. Arrow up or arrow down!!!
Didnt the giants win a superbowl with a crappy defense and no running game??
Packers and Pats how many times have they had dominant run games?
I think of any fan base, contemporary Giants fans would know there is no inevitability of low odds moves working out swimmingly.
Hell, the high odds moves haven't worked out well recently.
I can get behind the logic Colombo will excel at building guys up, Thomas is the goods, Peart is high potential, Hernandez was hamstrung by Solder being the worst.
I'm a little skeptical Nick Gates will blossom into a competent center and that Zeitler and Fleming are part of the future.
i don't think it's delusion. You've been calling for a reset, and I think they did that and thought outside the box with the Judge hire. It seems you won't be satisfied until DG is gone no matter if we show improvement this year.
is about what I figured, in that neighborhood.
I knew the Giants weren't going to pay him 4M or 5Mill.
I love how after a player signs, the agent starts singing,
'he was offered more money elsewhere', a familiar refrain.
RE: RE: Some people just never get tired of living in delusion
I think of any fan base, contemporary Giants fans would know there is no inevitability of low odds moves working out swimmingly.
Hell, the high odds moves haven't worked out well recently.
I can get behind the logic Colombo will excel at building guys up, Thomas is the goods, Peart is high potential, Hernandez was hamstrung by Solder being the worst.
I'm a little skeptical Nick Gates will blossom into a competent center and that Zeitler and Fleming are part of the future.
.
Fleming is a stopgap, he's on a one year deal.
It's possible they move Gates to RT after this year,
they gave him an extension already.
I think they need to draft a center next year.
for the most part. Thomas is the LT of the future. Columbo seems sold on Hernandez. RE: Fleming we are looking for adequate play - he's been okay, Columbo says he is improving but I think everyone suspects that Peart is the future. Same for Lemieux, although I question whether some of the knocks on Zeitler are based on "expert" opinions. I would not be shocked to see us draft a Center early on in next year's draft. I think Gates best value may be at swing tackle who could plug in anywhere on the line in a pinch.
I think we still need to upgrade the blocking at TE and FB though.
And, OLine more than any other position requires time to develop, suffering more from the lack of preseason.
I can't believe I have to justify being negative about the worst team in the NFL over the last 3 years who are, again 0-2, and have scored fewer points through two weeks than any team in football.
I've tried the whole "wait and see" thing.. many times.
I keep seeing the same thing.
A team that doesn't make plays when a game is on the line and a team that continues to lose almost every single time they take the field.
We still can't run the ball. We still can't stop the run late in games. How many times did David Montgomery or Benny Snell cut through our front in 4th quarters?
I'm done giving the Giants the benefit of the doubt and I'm an idiot for having done it as long as I did. I'll believe this team is actually turning a corner when they start winning football games.
Washington looks like the next game we have a chance in. We're probably looking at 0-5 at that point.
You're entitled to be pessimistic but then what's the point of posting here? Your entire football opinion is everything about this teams sucks. Why post here then? First, you seem miserable why be here if Giants football makes you so miserable? Second, what does it add to the discussion if that's all you ever talk about?
Chill brother. You can't judge the line this year yet. It is just too soon based on the lack of preseason games and the amount of practice. 3 new players, one new to the NFL and one new to the center position. It is what it is. I ain't satisfied either. If by season's end we still look this bad I will fucking grab a pitchfork with you, you bring the matches I will bring the accelerant. It will mean DG needs to go. Today, I can't do it. When they hired an entire new coaching staff and listed the OL plan, I knew I was going to have to wait until the second half of the year to make judgement.
If in the last quarter of the year we still can't run DG needs to go. He came and talked all kinds of shit about the OL needs fixing and you have to put in the work to find a guy. He was going to watch the "tape" He bragged that he knew what it looked like. He should be held accountable at that point. People are tired of excuses. I get it.
if you can’t see the fact that we actually finally have a plan at OL, you need to keep looking.
So we're clear, signing Solder and Omameh and not sleeping on Pio wasn't a plan?
Just want to make sure we're not giving credit for having a plan now without acknowledging that it means that we didn't have one before. Conversely, if we DID have a plan when Solder and Omameh were signed, then maybe having a plan isn't the actual thing that matters.
RE: RE: You win football games by controlling the LOS
If the Giants can't run the ball(been a long time since they were able to run the ball effectively) we won't win many games. I am encouraged by this OL that was put together at the end of July(less than 2 months).
I am encouraged by the coaching staff in general but I have my doubts about Patrick Graham.Can't stand his amoeba defense.It prevents the defense from getting off the field on third down.
I like the Freeman signing for good value but I would like to see Gallman get the ball.We need to know if we can trust him as a RB.
To me this young team is still in preseason.
The second half of the season will show what direction the Giants are going in 2020. Arrow up or arrow down!!!
Didnt the giants win a superbowl with a crappy defense and no running game??
Packers and Pats how many times have they had dominant run games?
Look, if DJ becomes Rodgers or Brady, we're golden. Right now, it would be great if he just stopped being Dave Krieg.
I can't believe I have to justify being negative about the worst team in the NFL over the last 3 years who are, again 0-2, and have scored fewer points through two weeks than any team in football.
I've tried the whole "wait and see" thing.. many times.
I keep seeing the same thing.
A team that doesn't make plays when a game is on the line and a team that continues to lose almost every single time they take the field.
We still can't run the ball. We still can't stop the run late in games. How many times did David Montgomery or Benny Snell cut through our front in 4th quarters?
I'm done giving the Giants the benefit of the doubt and I'm an idiot for having done it as long as I did. I'll believe this team is actually turning a corner when they start winning football games.
Washington looks like the next game we have a chance in. We're probably looking at 0-5 at that point.
You're entitled to be pessimistic but then what's the point of posting here? Your entire football opinion is everything about this teams sucks. Why post here then? First, you seem miserable why be here if Giants football makes you so miserable? Second, what does it add to the discussion if that's all you ever talk about?
Well said. Take the negativity somewhere else.
Why? Because you don't like to hear it?
Some of you guys need to get a fucking grip. When did it become such an issue to criticize the Giants around here?
I'll happily give them credit when they start winning football games - heck, I've given them credit for things this year. I don't want to be "right" about them being a shitty team, I want to enjoy watching them. Right now, I'm not enjoying much - nor should anyone. We've done a LOT of losing.
If I'm a bad fan because I hate seeing what this franchise has become recently and expect the New York Giants to not be an NFL doormat, then I guess I'm a bad fan.
Chill brother. You can't judge the line this year yet. It is just too soon based on the lack of preseason games and the amount of practice. 3 new players, one new to the NFL and one new to the center position. It is what it is. I ain't satisfied either. If by season's end we still look this bad I will fucking grab a pitchfork with you, you bring the matches I will bring the accelerant. It will mean DG needs to go. Today, I can't do it. When they hired an entire new coaching staff and listed the OL plan, I knew I was going to have to wait until the second half of the year to make judgement.
I'm not; I haven't said "this is what the line is - this is what the line will be, nothing will change" - that isn't my stance.
I'm questioning the certainty from folks who seem to think all it needs is time to gel. What if Will Hernandez isn't that good? What if Gates doesn't pan out? What if Zeitler breaks down? We still don't have a long-term solution @ RT unless Peart pans out - and that is a *huge* gamble - he very well may not. We've seen countless projects like this fail.
I'm a lot less confident that we have our group and it's just a matter of time. I think it's a matter of needing a lot more talent than we have. And that goes for a lot of this football team. I'd be interested in hearing which teams people here think have less talent than NYG right now. I personally don't think there are many, but maybe I'm wrong.
I have said several times that I expect some improvement - there has to be. The run blocking at this level for 16 games would produce historically poor rushing numbers. We would literally set records. So, it can't stay this bad all year.
But the Giants need to win some football games. Joe Judge might be in his first year, but Dave Gettleman isn't. A GM shouldn't need 5 years to start getting results and the clock is ticking.
If there's no real, marked improvement by years' end, Gettleman absolutely has to go.
how they should feel about a frigging sports team. But I'll say that if your football team makes you feel and sound like an abused spouse, then maybe you should take a break from football.
how they should feel about a frigging sports team. But I'll say that if your football team makes you feel and sound like an abused spouse, then maybe you should take a break from football.
What a stupid, shitty analogy to use.
I'll say that if negative opinions towards the Giants bother you SO much that you feel inclined to keep reading and responding to it, then maybe you should take a break from football.
how they should feel about a frigging sports team. But I'll say that if your football team makes you feel and sound like an abused spouse, then maybe you should take a break from football.
What a stupid, shitty analogy to use.
I'll say that if negative opinions towards the Giants bother you SO much that you feel inclined to keep reading and responding to it, then maybe you should take a break from football.
Oh, I'm doing fine, thanks for asking. And like I said, you can feel whatever you want to feel. But I'm not the one who's posted over a dozen times in this thread, going and on about how you've had your trust crushed year after year.
Glad you're keeping count - before long, you'll have just as many posts where you're whining about mine.
See how that works?
Fair enough. All I'm saying is, if the team is a constant source of unhappiness for you, then maybe it's time to take a breath and disengage for a bit.
We all want the same thing in the end: a better football team. I'll try following my own advice, peace out.
they do every year. Every development requires a modification of the plan (which they haven't been to good at). The problem is their plans recently haven't been worth shit. However, maybe this years plan will work out better than prior years.Too early to give up. See 2007!
1)Run between the tackles
2)Block
3)Catch the ball
4)Break tackles
That will so for now.
Agree on #1 and #2.
Unfortunately, I think the recipe has been shared around the league this off-season. To beat the Giants offense, commit to stopping the run and make Jones beat you.
So I'm not sure how much of a difference Freeman will make. But it's a good signing under the circumstances.
Not sure who would be having fun watching the Giants right now. If you are, more power to you - I'm personally tired of watching garbage football and think it'd be cool if the team we root for could stop being a doormat and a "get right" game for every team in the NFL.
But that's me.
2019 Highlights - ( New Window )
No complaints here, with anything.
So, do you. Let me be me. If I choose to vent my frustrations in an appropriate venue, that's my decision. We don't all need to watch the Giants through the same lens.
If you don't like reading negative things about a crappy football team, this might not be a great place to spend spare time this fall and winter.
I don't carry any of this into my personal life. I stopped doing that many moons ago. It would just be fantastic if this football team could stop being a league-wide laughingstock.
I can't think of many NFL teams who wouldn't see NYG on their schedule and not say "well, we can get a win there"
Almost every single team that has us on their schedule can say that.
That sucks.
I think there are some likely positive outcomes:
1) Thomas is a high talent, high caliber player who will develop nicely
2) Hernandez benefits from not having literally the worst tackle on his wing like he did last year
I also think there are some reasonably likely disappointing outcomes:
1) UDFA Nick Gates is not an NFL caliber center
2) Kevin Zeitler is physically at the tail end of his career in year 9 in the NFL
3) Cam Fleming is not talented enough to be relied on as a full-time starter
Not to say those last three things are a lock to happen, but if those were true statements at the end of the year, would that be surprising?
I mean - what the hell do you want everyone to say? Until Joe Judge goes 13-3 we are just gonna suck forever?
We’ve played.....two games....with this new regime. Two games. Our rookie LT looks like the best lineman we’ve had in about 10 years, literally. Call me crazy but I do have a glimmer of hope, not a super bowl guarantee.
I've tried the whole "wait and see" thing.. many times.
I keep seeing the same thing.
A team that doesn't make plays when a game is on the line and a team that continues to lose almost every single time they take the field.
We still can't run the ball. We still can't stop the run late in games. How many times did David Montgomery or Benny Snell cut through our front in 4th quarters?
I'm done giving the Giants the benefit of the doubt and I'm an idiot for having done it as long as I did. I'll believe this team is actually turning a corner when they start winning football games.
Washington looks like the next game we have a chance in. We're probably looking at 0-5 at that point.
You're entitled to be pessimistic but then what's the point of posting here? Your entire football opinion is everything about this teams sucks. Why post here then? First, you seem miserable why be here if Giants football makes you so miserable? Second, what does it add to the discussion if that's all you ever talk about?
Too many people are busily throwing away this season, not me.
The coaching staff won't allow this team to quit, and by getting a guy like Freeman they have a chance to get some wins.
Looking at the other teams in the NFCE, the Giants could beat any of them.
Getting Devonta Freeman as a weapon for the offense is a brilliant move.
with Saquon now gone, I think the players put more on themselves now and will galvanize a bit to understand what they really are.
I'm going to stay tuned the next couplet games and see what happens.
[quote] Also, the Giants make me bitter towards... the Giants. That's all.
Arc, you are a respected poster here and I give you that respect. But honestly STFU... look at the state of our world. We’re all getting shit on, can you at least wait a few more games? Or better yet... go find another team...damn you cry like a little girl
This line is going to be a good one. It won't happen right away, but they have the parts.
I like Thomas. Not sure he'll be an All-Pro type player, but should be a good left tackle and not a weakness at all.
Hernandez i'm worried about. Doesn't seem like he's gotten any better since his rookie year, probably worse in fact.
Zeitler is overrated, always has been. Paid way too much money for the production he gives and he's likely going to worse, not better.
Thomas is the only part of this line i'm very confident in going forward. It will make rebuilding it a lot easier with a good LT, but the jury is out on the rest of the line
Quote:
In comment 14981948 Dragon said:
Quote:
To prove he can’t run behind our great OL, what a brilliant move.
When this line comes together, posts like this are going to look pretty darn silly.
Agreed Eric. A lot of people forget 3/5 of our line is new including a rookie RT. Throw in a completely non-existent offseason program and no preseason and it’s going to lead to poor play the first few weeks. Let’s check in around week 6 and see where they are at. This season favors teams with existing coaching staffs and veteran players. Especially the first half of the season.
We acknowledge that and still have tantrums about our struggles. Multitasking.
Quote:
I can't believe I have to justify being negative about the worst team in the NFL over the last 3 years who are, again 0-2, and have scored fewer points through two weeks than any team in football.
I've tried the whole "wait and see" thing.. many times.
I keep seeing the same thing.
A team that doesn't make plays when a game is on the line and a team that continues to lose almost every single time they take the field.
We still can't run the ball. We still can't stop the run late in games. How many times did David Montgomery or Benny Snell cut through our front in 4th quarters?
I'm done giving the Giants the benefit of the doubt and I'm an idiot for having done it as long as I did. I'll believe this team is actually turning a corner when they start winning football games.
Washington looks like the next game we have a chance in. We're probably looking at 0-5 at that point.
You're entitled to be pessimistic but then what's the point of posting here? Your entire football opinion is everything about this teams sucks. Why post here then? First, you seem miserable why be here if Giants football makes you so miserable? Second, what does it add to the discussion if that's all you ever talk about?
That's not "all I ever talk about" but go on... continue to be overly-sensitive about another Giants fan criticizing the worst team in football over the last 3 years.
Not like it's warranted or anything...
[quote] Also, the Giants make me bitter towards... the Giants. That's all.
Arc, you are a respected poster here and I give you that respect. But honestly STFU... look at the state of our world. We’re all getting shit on, can you at least wait a few more games? Or better yet... go find another team...damn you cry like a little girl
You post like a teenager.
but...
at best we should be neutral in our expectations. The results so far, including past years performance of the 2 returning linemen (they were OK, maybe pushing solid-they aren't going to make, or break, the line), don't lend to irrational exuberance.
Certainly, we should all hope things work out, but I think this team has earned a "I'll believe it when I see it" attitude more than a "I'm positive the OL will prove itself" outlook
I think there are some likely positive outcomes:
1) Thomas is a high talent, high caliber player who will develop nicely
2) Hernandez benefits from not having literally the worst tackle on his wing like he did last year
I also think there are some reasonably likely disappointing outcomes:
1) UDFA Nick Gates is not an NFL caliber center
2) Kevin Zeitler is physically at the tail end of his career in year 9 in the NFL
3) Cam Fleming is not talented enough to be relied on as a full-time starter
Not to say those last three things are a lock to happen, but if those were true statements at the end of the year, would that be surprising?
I see the OL the same way. Eric's insistence that it's going to come together and just needs time is a bit confounding.
I think Andrew Thomas is going to be good. I'm happy with that pick and am expecting that he'll develop into a guy we can pencil in @ LT for a while and not need to worry about.
I still don't see it with Will Hernandez, though. Is he getting better? It doesn't seem like he's really made much of any jump since his rookie year. He's not a liability, but I don't know if he's even a long-term answer.
The middle is still a total wild card with Gates.
Is Zeitler a long-term solution? Probably not. His body has taken a beating. I don't know that he'll still be a plus player by the time this team is ready to go.
Cam Fleming is a stopgap. That's not a long-term answer @ RT and if Matt Peart, who has a tremendous ceiling and also a tremendous chance of busting doesn't develop, we have no answer there.
To me, the OL is still very much a question mark. It's not fixed. It's in better shape than it was, but I don't see a sure thing here or anything even close.
I think there are some likely positive outcomes:
1) Thomas is a high talent, high caliber player who will develop nicely
2) Hernandez benefits from not having literally the worst tackle on his wing like he did last year
I also think there are some reasonably likely disappointing outcomes:
1) UDFA Nick Gates is not an NFL caliber center
2) Kevin Zeitler is physically at the tail end of his career in year 9 in the NFL
3) Cam Fleming is not talented enough to be relied on as a full-time starter
Not to say those last three things are a lock to happen, but if those were true statements at the end of the year, would that be surprising?
Christian - no one should be surprised at four of those points. Zeitler's poor performance is though. I didn't think he was anything more than avg/solid last year but this year he has fallen a few notches for certain.
Again, silver lining for a bad season is we probably see some of the other rookie OL on the right side by end of the year.
I am encouraged by the coaching staff in general but I have my doubts about Patrick Graham.Can't stand his amoeba defense.It prevents the defense from getting off the field on third down.
I like the Freeman signing for good value but I would like to see Gallman get the ball.We need to know if we can trust him as a RB.
To me this young team is still in preseason.
The second half of the season will show what direction the Giants are going in 2020. Arrow up or arrow down!!!
I am encouraged by the coaching staff in general but I have my doubts about Patrick Graham.Can't stand his amoeba defense.It prevents the defense from getting off the field on third down.
I like the Freeman signing for good value but I would like to see Gallman get the ball.We need to know if we can trust him as a RB.
To me this young team is still in preseason.
The second half of the season will show what direction the Giants are going in 2020. Arrow up or arrow down!!!
Didnt the giants win a superbowl with a crappy defense and no running game??
Packers and Pats how many times have they had dominant run games?
My pessimism varies by day of the week. Kind of like the stages of grief. :)
I think of any fan base, contemporary Giants fans would know there is no inevitability of low odds moves working out swimmingly.
Hell, the high odds moves haven't worked out well recently.
I can get behind the logic Colombo will excel at building guys up, Thomas is the goods, Peart is high potential, Hernandez was hamstrung by Solder being the worst.
I'm a little skeptical Nick Gates will blossom into a competent center and that Zeitler and Fleming are part of the future.
I knew the Giants weren't going to pay him 4M or 5Mill.
I love how after a player signs, the agent starts singing,
'he was offered more money elsewhere', a familiar refrain.
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I think of any fan base, contemporary Giants fans would know there is no inevitability of low odds moves working out swimmingly.
Hell, the high odds moves haven't worked out well recently.
I can get behind the logic Colombo will excel at building guys up, Thomas is the goods, Peart is high potential, Hernandez was hamstrung by Solder being the worst.
I'm a little skeptical Nick Gates will blossom into a competent center and that Zeitler and Fleming are part of the future.
Fleming is a stopgap, he's on a one year deal.
It's possible they move Gates to RT after this year,
they gave him an extension already.
I think they need to draft a center next year.
I think we still need to upgrade the blocking at TE and FB though.
And, OLine more than any other position requires time to develop, suffering more from the lack of preseason.
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I can't believe I have to justify being negative about the worst team in the NFL over the last 3 years who are, again 0-2, and have scored fewer points through two weeks than any team in football.
I've tried the whole "wait and see" thing.. many times.
I keep seeing the same thing.
A team that doesn't make plays when a game is on the line and a team that continues to lose almost every single time they take the field.
We still can't run the ball. We still can't stop the run late in games. How many times did David Montgomery or Benny Snell cut through our front in 4th quarters?
I'm done giving the Giants the benefit of the doubt and I'm an idiot for having done it as long as I did. I'll believe this team is actually turning a corner when they start winning football games.
Washington looks like the next game we have a chance in. We're probably looking at 0-5 at that point.
You're entitled to be pessimistic but then what's the point of posting here? Your entire football opinion is everything about this teams sucks. Why post here then? First, you seem miserable why be here if Giants football makes you so miserable? Second, what does it add to the discussion if that's all you ever talk about?
Well said. Take the negativity somewhere else.
So we're clear, signing Solder and Omameh and not sleeping on Pio wasn't a plan?
Just want to make sure we're not giving credit for having a plan now without acknowledging that it means that we didn't have one before. Conversely, if we DID have a plan when Solder and Omameh were signed, then maybe having a plan isn't the actual thing that matters.
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If the Giants can't run the ball(been a long time since they were able to run the ball effectively) we won't win many games. I am encouraged by this OL that was put together at the end of July(less than 2 months).
I am encouraged by the coaching staff in general but I have my doubts about Patrick Graham.Can't stand his amoeba defense.It prevents the defense from getting off the field on third down.
I like the Freeman signing for good value but I would like to see Gallman get the ball.We need to know if we can trust him as a RB.
To me this young team is still in preseason.
The second half of the season will show what direction the Giants are going in 2020. Arrow up or arrow down!!!
Didnt the giants win a superbowl with a crappy defense and no running game??
Packers and Pats how many times have they had dominant run games?
Look, if DJ becomes Rodgers or Brady, we're golden. Right now, it would be great if he just stopped being Dave Krieg.
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In comment 14981997 arcarsenal said:
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I can't believe I have to justify being negative about the worst team in the NFL over the last 3 years who are, again 0-2, and have scored fewer points through two weeks than any team in football.
I've tried the whole "wait and see" thing.. many times.
I keep seeing the same thing.
A team that doesn't make plays when a game is on the line and a team that continues to lose almost every single time they take the field.
We still can't run the ball. We still can't stop the run late in games. How many times did David Montgomery or Benny Snell cut through our front in 4th quarters?
I'm done giving the Giants the benefit of the doubt and I'm an idiot for having done it as long as I did. I'll believe this team is actually turning a corner when they start winning football games.
Washington looks like the next game we have a chance in. We're probably looking at 0-5 at that point.
You're entitled to be pessimistic but then what's the point of posting here? Your entire football opinion is everything about this teams sucks. Why post here then? First, you seem miserable why be here if Giants football makes you so miserable? Second, what does it add to the discussion if that's all you ever talk about?
Well said. Take the negativity somewhere else.
Why? Because you don't like to hear it?
Some of you guys need to get a fucking grip. When did it become such an issue to criticize the Giants around here?
I'll happily give them credit when they start winning football games - heck, I've given them credit for things this year. I don't want to be "right" about them being a shitty team, I want to enjoy watching them. Right now, I'm not enjoying much - nor should anyone. We've done a LOT of losing.
If I'm a bad fan because I hate seeing what this franchise has become recently and expect the New York Giants to not be an NFL doormat, then I guess I'm a bad fan.
I'm not; I haven't said "this is what the line is - this is what the line will be, nothing will change" - that isn't my stance.
I'm questioning the certainty from folks who seem to think all it needs is time to gel. What if Will Hernandez isn't that good? What if Gates doesn't pan out? What if Zeitler breaks down? We still don't have a long-term solution @ RT unless Peart pans out - and that is a *huge* gamble - he very well may not. We've seen countless projects like this fail.
I'm a lot less confident that we have our group and it's just a matter of time. I think it's a matter of needing a lot more talent than we have. And that goes for a lot of this football team. I'd be interested in hearing which teams people here think have less talent than NYG right now. I personally don't think there are many, but maybe I'm wrong.
I have said several times that I expect some improvement - there has to be. The run blocking at this level for 16 games would produce historically poor rushing numbers. We would literally set records. So, it can't stay this bad all year.
But the Giants need to win some football games. Joe Judge might be in his first year, but Dave Gettleman isn't. A GM shouldn't need 5 years to start getting results and the clock is ticking.
If there's no real, marked improvement by years' end, Gettleman absolutely has to go.
2)Block
3)Catch the ball
4)Break tackles
That will so for now.
What a stupid, shitty analogy to use.
I'll say that if negative opinions towards the Giants bother you SO much that you feel inclined to keep reading and responding to it, then maybe you should take a break from football.
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how they should feel about a frigging sports team. But I'll say that if your football team makes you feel and sound like an abused spouse, then maybe you should take a break from football.
What a stupid, shitty analogy to use.
I'll say that if negative opinions towards the Giants bother you SO much that you feel inclined to keep reading and responding to it, then maybe you should take a break from football.
Oh, I'm doing fine, thanks for asking. And like I said, you can feel whatever you want to feel. But I'm not the one who's posted over a dozen times in this thread, going and on about how you've had your trust crushed year after year.
See how that works?
See how that works?
Fair enough. All I'm saying is, if the team is a constant source of unhappiness for you, then maybe it's time to take a breath and disengage for a bit.
We all want the same thing in the end: a better football team. I'll try following my own advice, peace out.
2)Block
3)Catch the ball
4)Break tackles
That will so for now.
Agree on #1 and #2.
Unfortunately, I think the recipe has been shared around the league this off-season. To beat the Giants offense, commit to stopping the run and make Jones beat you.
So I'm not sure how much of a difference Freeman will make. But it's a good signing under the circumstances.